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Dr. Laker
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Joined: 12 Apr 2002
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 Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:32 am Post subject: |
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Oh well. Since I can't go to Fogo de Chao this month, I guess I'll send a couple hundred bucks down to Georgia.
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kikanga
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Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | The left doesn't play well together and doesn't exercise the patience - or the trust - to take turns in winning and dividing the spoils. That's why even our wins are losses. |
Just quoting your last paragraph because it was a long post. But I read it all and I agree with alot of what you said.
Only places we may disagree:
Branding is a Democrat party problem in general. Not a progressive specific one. Fox example, long before "Defund the Police". Democrats accepted and used the branding of "Obamacare" instead of "the Affordable Care Act".
Also, catering to non-college educated white males shouldn't be a focus. The focus long term should be addressing the all time highs in income and wealth inequality (regardless of race and gender). Now if that message isn't enough for some non-college educated people. Democrats need to do a better job explaining to them the benefits of their platform. And we have to accept some maybe most of those non-college educated people can't be convinced, they are a lost cause.
I keep seeing "points-wise AA support was down for Biden compared to Hillary". You have to factor in turnout and geography. Turnout was up in key cities in key states across the country. And that's the biggest reason why Biden won states Hillary didn't. Which is why the #1 thing that should happen if we win these Senate seats is passing a Voters Rights law. So states like PA have mail in voting as an option every year for everyone. Not just during a pandemic.
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jonnybravo
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Joined: 21 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | The left doesn't play well together and doesn't exercise the patience - or the trust - to take turns in winning and dividing the spoils. That's why even our wins are losses. |
Just quoting your last paragraph because it was a long post. But I read it all and I agree with alot of what you said.
Only places we may disagree:
Branding is a Democrat party problem in general. Not a progressive specific one. Fox example, long before "Defund the Police". Democrats accepted and used the branding of "Obamacare" instead of "the Affordable Care Act".
Also, catering to non-college educated white males shouldn't be a focus. The focus long term should be addressing the all time highs in income and wealth inequality (regardless of race and gender). Now if that message isn't enough for some non-college educated people. Democrats need to do a better job explaining to them the benefits of their platform. And we have to accept some maybe most of those non-college educated people can't be convinced, they are a lost cause.
I keep seeing "points-wise AA support was down for Biden compared to Hillary". You have to factor in turnout and geography. Turnout was up in key cities in key states across the country. And that's the biggest reason why Biden won states Hillary didn't. Which is why the #1 thing that should happen if we win these Senate seats is passing a Voters Rights law. So states like PA have mail in voting as an option every year for everyone. Not just during a pandemic. |
To add to this discussion, I think UBI is an inevitability. This is like selling water to a man dying of thirst and the fact that it's even debated with the continued rise of automation and AI is simply pathetic. Such an easy sell and we can't figure out how to get the message out.
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angrypuppy
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 32754
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | The left doesn't play well together and doesn't exercise the patience - or the trust - to take turns in winning and dividing the spoils. That's why even our wins are losses. |
Just quoting your last paragraph because it was a long post. But I read it all and I agree with alot of what you said.
Only places we may disagree:
Branding is a Democrat party problem in general. Not a progressive specific one. Fox example, long before "Defund the Police". Democrats accepted and used the branding of "Obamacare" instead of "the Affordable Care Act".
Also, catering to non-college educated white males shouldn't be a focus. The focus long term should be addressing the all time highs in income and wealth inequality (regardless of race and gender). Now if that message isn't enough for some non-college educated people. Democrats need to do a better job explaining to them the benefits of their platform. And we have to accept some maybe most of those non-college educated people can't be convinced, they are a lost cause.
I keep seeing "points-wise AA support was down for Biden compared to Hillary". You have to factor in turnout and geography. Turnout was up in key cities in key states across the country. And that's the biggest reason why Biden won states Hillary didn't. Which is why the #1 thing that should happen if we win these Senate seats is passing a Voters Rights law. So states like PA have mail in voting as an option every year for everyone. Not just during a pandemic. |
One of the most important concepts in branding is a unifying message, and then customizing that message to each targeted market segment. Where I see a conflict is that there the Dem message too often borders on antipathy towards the non-college educated white males. Broad messages to date have not worked.
Find a message that works. As I've repeated ad nauseam, Trump is a symptom, not the disease. Communicate that you can improve their lot in life, because in our self-induced, post-industrial age, all many of them have left are guns and religion. That has eroded their self-worth, and to elevate that self-worth they have to scapegoat others (minorities, gays, coastal elites, whatever). That's why Trump succeeds, he addresses their bitterness and despair. Adapt a platform, message and policies, and this group will fragment, neutralizing the GOP and any future Trump clones. |
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non-player zealot
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trmiv
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Joined: 19 Nov 2001
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| I don’t see any easy way to reach non-college educated whites unfortunately. This isn’t 2007. Things have changed. It’s not just Fox News anymore. Sure they mainline that all day, but that was just the gateway drug. Things like Facebook, conservative YouTube, Parler, 4chan, etc have these people so deeply enthralled, I don’t know how you counter that with messaging. They live in their own bubble of right-wing misinformation that teaches them that Democrats are the enemy and anything Democrats stand for is leading to the destruction of the country that only they and people like them care about. |
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trmiv
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Joined: 19 Nov 2001
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Location: Orlando
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| non-player zealot wrote: |
threh-and sounds Valley Gurl. Trippindicular. |
Yea she just totally drops the “T”.
I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that the election “fraud” isn’t the reason she can’t get a real job. Seeing that she had the time to be a “temporary IT ‘consultant’” on Election Day, she’s probably been “between jobs” and “looking to get her real estate license” for awhile since the last contracting job she had where she told off one of her co-workers after they commented on her MAGA scrunchie. |
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SweetP
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 6054
Location: My own little piece of reality
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Adam Levine @cnnadam
Three former US presidents – Barack Obama, George W. Bush and Bill Clinton – are volunteering to get their Covid-19 vaccines on camera in order to promote public confidence in the vaccine's safety. |
| Quote: | Angry Staffer @Angry_Staffer
I’m told Trump is furious at what he thinks is Bush, Clinton, and Obama attempting to take away credit for “his vaccine.”
He’s being urged not to tweet anything petulant about it, so I’m sure petulance is imminent. |
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trmiv
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Wilt
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Joined: 29 Dec 2002
Posts: 13731
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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Biden's lead is now over 7 million.
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trmiv
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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Republicans in Georgia done got themselves in a pickle. On one hand they are trying to run as being a check on a Biden presidency. On the other hand they can’t admit Biden will be president because it will piss off the very dolts they need to vote for them and the head dolt that these dolts worship.
https://mobile.twitter.com/i/web/status/1330969868045348864
| Quote: | | David Perdue’s conundrum in 10 seconds: He’s pitching himself and fellow Ga. Sen. Kelly Loeffler as the last line of defense against Democratic control. A guy in the crowd (the one in the hat) interrupts, screaming ‘What are you doing to stand up for President Trump.’ |
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Heartburn
Star Player
Joined: 04 Oct 2001
Posts: 6350
Location: The Titanic that is the USA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | The left doesn't play well together and doesn't exercise the patience - or the trust - to take turns in winning and dividing the spoils. That's why even our wins are losses. |
Just quoting your last paragraph because it was a long post. But I read it all and I agree with alot of what you said.
Only places we may disagree:
Branding is a Democrat party problem in general. Not a progressive specific one. Fox example, long before "Defund the Police". Democrats accepted and used the branding of "Obamacare" instead of "the Affordable Care Act".
Also, catering to non-college educated white males shouldn't be a focus. The focus long term should be addressing the all time highs in income and wealth inequality (regardless of race and gender). Now if that message isn't enough for some non-college educated people. Democrats need to do a better job explaining to them the benefits of their platform. And we have to accept some maybe most of those non-college educated people can't be convinced, they are a lost cause.
I keep seeing "points-wise AA support was down for Biden compared to Hillary". You have to factor in turnout and geography. Turnout was up in key cities in key states across the country. And that's the biggest reason why Biden won states Hillary didn't. Which is why the #1 thing that should happen if we win these Senate seats is passing a Voters Rights law. So states like PA have mail in voting as an option every year for everyone. Not just during a pandemic. |
One of the most important concepts in branding is a unifying message, and then customizing that message to each targeted market segment. Where I see a conflict is that there the Dem message too often borders on antipathy towards the non-college educated white males. Broad messages to date have not worked.
Find a message that works. As I've repeated ad nauseam, Trump is a symptom, not the disease. Communicate that you can improve their lot in life, because in our self-induced, post-industrial age, all many of them have left are guns and religion. That has eroded their self-worth, and to elevate that self-worth they have to scapegoat others (minorities, gays, coastal elites, whatever). That's why Trump succeeds, he addresses their bitterness and despair. Adapt a platform, message and policies, and this group will fragment, neutralizing the GOP and any future Trump clones. |
Yes. If you can actually improve their lives, they'll come back. But if it's all a performative bukkake on behalf of Wall Street, they'll think it's business as usual and buy into the vote-against-your-interest garbage that McConnell represents.
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You are under no obligation to remain the same person you were a year ago, a month ago, or even a day ago. You are here to create yourself, continuously. - Richard Feynman |
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C M B
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Joined: 15 Nov 2006
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Location: Prarie & Manchester, high above the western sideline
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: |
I’m less inclined to feel entitled demagogues who spend more time whipping up a personal base in safe spaces while harming the electoral possibilities of colleagues on the front line, and contributing very little to actual policy making. Sound bites like that are a prime example, as that’s not how policy gets made, but it makes her fans feel like she’s fighting the good fight. |
In the same vein, Obama made the prescient observation that messaging is important to turning ideas into policy, and that reform the police is much better messaging than defund the police, but f you want to actually do something as opposed to feel righteous. Ilhan Omar promptly called him out on that. |
AOC isn't a demagogue.
Detroit, St.Paul/Minneapolis, and Philadelphia aren't "safe spaces" (represented by progressives in Congress). They are areas that have country-defining EC results. Because turnout there is sooo important. Biden's team would be the first to agree. |
I’m talking safe electoral spaces for them. The Squad represent districts that are democratic strongholds, and mostly have been for generations. AOC and Pressley unseated two very powerful and very liberal congresspeople.
Conversely, the seats that were taken from the GOP in 2018 (and a number lost this last election) are in tough swing and even red districts, and those gop candidates love to run against the squad. They are electoral gold in swing areas all over the country, for the GOP. See south Florida. You can weigh that against turnout in their home districts (and to what degree they drove turnout for Biden), but they are the easy targets for the opposition, in part because of racism and sexism, but in larger part because they supply the propaganda for the opponent. It’s why Abrams is far more effective electorally for the party. |
Yes. In Georgia.
I don't understand the thought process. While in office, the Squad champion the issues they run on. Their constituencies voted for them in the primaries specifically because they do that. But they should kowtow to voters in purple districts across the country?
That seems backwards. Then add onto it. We want our cake and eat it too. We still need them to turnout their districts.
Pretty much, tell progressive district voters to shut up, you don't matter, and oh by the way make sure to turnout or else we're all screwed in the EC. |
Isn't that the game? Turn out your party's voters + don't turn off any expected turnout + don't turn out the other side (with poisonous slogans like "defund the police"). The best thing about "the squad" is that they get the twitter youngsters fired up. Beyond that, they do too much to knock the pH of the democratic party off of its winning balance. Then who's going to do the heavy lifting after they've successfully replaced their "corporate" counterparts...with republicans?
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| Sister Golden Hair wrote: | LAMAR ODOM is an anagram for ... DOOM ALARM
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Last edited by C M B on Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:33 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Aussiesuede
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Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 10964
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | President Trump has raised $495 million since mid-October, with $207.5 million of it pouring in after Election Day — an extraordinary haul resulting from Trump’s post-election fundraising effort using a blizzard of misleading appeals about the integrity of the vote.
The sum raised since Oct. 15 far exceeds fundraising records set by the Trump operation in roughly comparable time periods at the height of the 2020 presidential campaign and is an unusually large amount to raise after the election.
That means between Oct. 15 to Nov. 23, Trump raised an average of nearly $13 million per day — a massive amount fueled by a deluge of email and text fundraising appeals sent out by the Trump Make America Great Again Committee, a joint fundraising committee that raises money for the president’s campaign, the party and Trump’s new leadership PAC, Save America
The campaign has sent 498 post-election fundraising pitches to donors, setting a monthly record for Trump fundraising appeals, according to @TrumpEmail, a Twitter account that has tracked the president’s fundraising requests since January 2018.
The contributions, from thousands of donors across the country, are deposited into several accounts, including Save America — a leadership PAC, which is loosely regulated and could be used to personally benefit the president after he leaves the White House. |
Presidential Lies Net Almost QTR Billion $ AFTER Election day
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I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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trmiv
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Joined: 19 Nov 2001
Posts: 17659
Location: Orlando
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Aussiesuede wrote: | | Quote: | President Trump has raised $495 million since mid-October, with $207.5 million of it pouring in after Election Day — an extraordinary haul resulting from Trump’s post-election fundraising effort using a blizzard of misleading appeals about the integrity of the vote.
The sum raised since Oct. 15 far exceeds fundraising records set by the Trump operation in roughly comparable time periods at the height of the 2020 presidential campaign and is an unusually large amount to raise after the election.
That means between Oct. 15 to Nov. 23, Trump raised an average of nearly $13 million per day — a massive amount fueled by a deluge of email and text fundraising appeals sent out by the Trump Make America Great Again Committee, a joint fundraising committee that raises money for the president’s campaign, the party and Trump’s new leadership PAC, Save America
The campaign has sent 498 post-election fundraising pitches to donors, setting a monthly record for Trump fundraising appeals, according to @TrumpEmail, a Twitter account that has tracked the president’s fundraising requests since January 2018.
The contributions, from thousands of donors across the country, are deposited into several accounts, including Save America — a leadership PAC, which is loosely regulated and could be used to personally benefit the president after he leaves the White House. |
Presidential Lies Net Almost QTR Billion $ AFTER Election day |
Imagine being so stupid you donated money to this grift. |
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FernieBee
Star Player
Joined: 17 Nov 2003
Posts: 8033
Location: 921SD
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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Trump is an idiot, but he's had almost a whole lifetime honing his lying and manipulation skills. He's very good at what he does: suckering people for his financial benefit.
MAGA: Make Americans Give Again
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PLATNUM
Star Player
Joined: 17 Dec 2002
Posts: 7191
Location: L.A.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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I wish this was a joke. smh
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"Dread it, run from it... destiny arrives all the same." |
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kikanga
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Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29353
Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| C M B wrote: |
Isn't that the game? Turn out your party's voters + don't turn off any expected turnout + don't turn out the other side (with poisonous slogans like "defund the police"). The best thing about "the squad" is that they get the twitter youngsters fired up. Beyond that, they do too much to knock the pH of the democratic party off of its winning balance. Then who's going to do the heavy lifting after they've successfully replaced their "corporate" counterparts...with republicans? |
I think the game is representing the viewpoints of your constituents. And if your opponent disparages you or compares you to party members you disagree with. You communicate to voters your own platform.
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Omar Little
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Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | C M B wrote: |
Isn't that the game? Turn out your party's voters + don't turn off any expected turnout + don't turn out the other side (with poisonous slogans like "defund the police"). The best thing about "the squad" is that they get the twitter youngsters fired up. Beyond that, they do too much to knock the pH of the democratic party off of its winning balance. Then who's going to do the heavy lifting after they've successfully replaced their "corporate" counterparts...with republicans? |
I think the game is representing the viewpoints of your constituents. And if your opponent disparages you or compares you to party members you disagree with. You communicate to voters your own platform. |
There’s a balance between the constituents who elected you and the constituents of the entire country (because you are a federal, therefore National, legislator. This is the art of why the GOP is so corrosive, because they only pander to their districts. The caucus is a team, and it needs roles and a combined agenda.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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C M B
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FernieBee
Star Player
Joined: 17 Nov 2003
Posts: 8033
Location: 921SD
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| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 5:59 am Post subject: |
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Trump and his supporters are doing what Russia, China, Iran, and North Korea have been doing for decades: harm the US, except Trump and his supporters are doing it directly (and from the inside).
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Garvey, Lopes, Cey, Russell |
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jodeke
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Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| FernieBee wrote: | | Trump and his supporters are doing what Russia, China, Iran, and North Korea have been doing for decades: harm the US, except Trump and his supporters are doing it directly (and from the inside). |
ABE LINCLON
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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jodeke
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Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:49 am Post subject: |
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Trump is a con artist. People are still sending him money. He's going to use it to pay off debts. Watch video.
‘Trump remains the leader’: President brings in $207 million after election day
HuffPost
NICK VISSER
December 3, 2020, 8:10 PM
LINK
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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FernieBee
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Posts: 8033
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| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:01 am Post subject: |
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It doesn't matter how much money Trump gets from his latest con, he's going to squander it.
His dumba$$ donors probably deserve to get bamboozled, once again.
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Hector the Pup
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| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| PLATNUM wrote: |
I wish this was a joke. smh |
Ready for the punchline?
| Quote: | | According to the Mail, Ms Carone, 33, was sentenced last September to 12 months of probation for an as-yet-unreported incident in 2018, which court documents refer to as “disorderly circumstances warranting alarm” and “computers-using to commit a crime.” |
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