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C M B
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:28 pm    Post subject:

1995Lakers wrote:
[Trump on his end should have followed South Korea's protocol in terms of the seriousness Korea understood the disease to be and the contact tracing/quarantine measures instituted.


The reason it's put on Trump before it's put on any outside actor is because once the virus infected its first American, he did the opposite of what you just said. He continues to dismiss the impact of the disease even after he himself became infected. We paid for him to get airlifted like some chump because he was that sick. People are still dying and going broke, and he has both declared victory over the pandemic and conceded defeat to the consequences of his administration's failure to defend its citizens from it. Your concern about unfair bias is ridiculous.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:33 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
The United States Postal Service had planned to distribute 650 million face coverings for the Trump administration in April to help curb the spread of the coronavirus, according to newly obtained internal documents reviewed by CNN.
But those plans were scrapped by the White House because it didn't want to spark "concern or panic" among Americans, senior administration officials told The Washington Post.
"There was concern from some in the White House Domestic Policy Council and the office of the vice president that households receiving masks might create concern or panic," one administration official told the Post.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/18/politics/postal-service-face-masks-coronavirus-trump-administration/index.html

Murderers. 10s of thousands of lives. Maybe 6 figures plus lives could've been saved. But nope. Had to worry about political optics.
Nobody can convince me our White House handled COVID well.
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Last edited by kikanga on Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:35 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:34 pm    Post subject:

1995Lakers wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
Another example of "both sides" not being the same:

Quote:
Chip Franklin @chipfranklin

When 2 died of Ebola they said Obama should resign.

When 4 died in Benghazi they said Hillary should go to jail.

When 228k died from the Trump Virus, they said give him his 3rd Supreme Court pick, ignore the Russian bounties on the heads of our troops & give him 4 more years.


The guy calls it a "Trump Virus." That is all I need to know about his bias. [snip]


Ok, just to show how this side might compromise, let's call it the virus that Trump called a hoax and said would be down to a few in a few days and lied to the American people about the severity because he didn't want to alarm people and that it would go away and could not get masks and supplies to the incredible care givers and medical teams timely and thought hydroxychloroquine and bleach would work and wanted the governors to take the blame for all the problems when he planned to take credit for fixing the problem and had rallies making fun of the scientists and doctors while never discouraging his flock to follow CDC guidelines all the while silencing the CDC from objectively reporting reasonable guidelines and seeing the US not only lead the world in deaths but become 206th in the world for covid deaths per 1M population when the US was considered the best prepared country to handle a pandemic.

But he sorta banned China.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:35 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
strong9 wrote:

I think CL had it right. She asked me to show her where Pelosi and Schumer are taking extreme positions. I don't see that they are. I merely said that in this reactionary environment, I fear they will capitulate to the extreme left to obtain the votes they need to pass things within 2 year and with a 1-term preaident, he won't be as willing to stand up to his own party on these points in the hopes of achieving things before his term is up. I don't want that because it perpetuates the status quo. I also said you can achieve all that while still seeking cooperation across the aisle. Up to Repubs if they play ball but at least you don't sink to their level.


Could you give an example of what you would consider "capitulate to the extreme left"? I think that would clarify things. Because right now Republicans do believe Pelosi and Schumer are taking extreme positions even though you don't.

Maybe what you consider extreme doesn't align with either party's description of the word?


Yeah. I am at the end of the day aligned with the New Democrat Coalition and their ilk, especially around fiscal responsibility. I support the Problem Solvers Caucus and believe energy should be focused there for things like prescription drug and immigration reform.

I can agree on making college more affordable, but the idea of free college education is fiscally irresponsible, as is the idea of complete forgiveness of student debt through reform of the bankruptcy code. I believe in affordable healthcare, but think Medicare for all is untenable. I don't agree with completely open borders, and guaranteed federal employment, like AOC for example.

Over the past few months Biden has started to veer left in order to court the far left vote by adopting a free partial college education proposal, an aggressive green energy plan, and forgiveness of student debt. I think his view on fracking was foolhardy, not because it hurts his ability to secure votes but because an abrupt change is disastrous and leads to the kind of displacement we had in the Midwest that helped usher in Trump in the first place.

I just don't want to see a further lurch left on these types of things that have a significant fiscal impact or that try to accelerate what is a long term solution.

Which brings me back to my original point. Our system is so screwed up that there will be a strong temptation to do in 2 years what should be a longer term goal, only to have it foment anger and energy in the Repub base so they can come and unwind it at the next opportunity they get.

I also think what Trump has done with the EPA is horrendous, and yes CL, don't agree with what you just posted about grey wolves. But I don't want to see the Dems come in and double down by adding all kinds of redtape instead of reinstating and gently marching towards more inroads on environmental protection.

making college more affordable, bipartisanship on deficits and debt, lowering healthcare costs, passing comprehensive immigration reform
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:17 pm    Post subject:

Saw this posted by Nate Cohn. Results from a 50,000 person survey

https://bfschaffner.shinyapps.io/CES2020/

Some interesting numbers

Overall
Biden 51
Trump 43

Then some comparisons to 2016 in parentheses

Among white voters
Biden 45 (40)
Trump 50 (54)

Black
Biden 86 (89)
Trump 8 (9)

Hispanic
Biden 59 (64)
Trump 35 (29)

Interesting that Biden improved with white voters vs Hillary but had a similar decline with Hispanic voters vs Hillary.

One big number for Biden

2020 likely voters who didn’t vote or voted other in 2016

Biden 56
Trump 27

Lots of other stuff for anyone who wants to look
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:32 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
NBC News @NBCNews

17 Trump campaign rally attendees in Florida were taken to the hospital, fire officials said.

The incident comes days after rallygoers in Nebraska needed medical attention after transportation issues resulted in attendees being stuck in the freezing cold.


Guess not enough of his fans are getting sick from covid at his events so he's trying to off them with the weather.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:39 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Isaac Stone Fish @isaacstonefish

Exclusive: Wilbur Ross served on the board of a Chinese joint venture until 2019. In other words, while helping run the Trade War, the Commerce Secretary was partnered with a Chinese state-owned enterprise. Thread on this massive conflict of interest.


Just wait until they start digging into Trump's finances...
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:41 pm    Post subject:

strong9 wrote:
Yeah. I am at the end of the day aligned with the New Democrat Coalition and their ilk, especially around fiscal responsibility. I support the Problem Solvers Caucus and believe energy should be focused there for things like prescription drug and immigration reform.

I can agree on making college more affordable, but the idea of free college education is fiscally irresponsible, as is the idea of complete forgiveness of student debt through reform of the bankruptcy code. I believe in affordable healthcare, but think Medicare for all is untenable. I don't agree with completely open borders, and guaranteed federal employment, like AOC for example.

Over the past few months Biden has started to veer left in order to court the far left vote by adopting a free partial college education proposal, an aggressive green energy plan, and forgiveness of student debt. I think his view on fracking was foolhardy, not because it hurts his ability to secure votes but because an abrupt change is disastrous and leads to the kind of displacement we had in the Midwest that helped usher in Trump in the first place.

I just don't want to see a further lurch left on these types of things that have a significant fiscal impact or that try to accelerate what is a long term solution.

Which brings me back to my original point. Our system is so screwed up that there will be a strong temptation to do in 2 years what should be a longer term goal, only to have it foment anger and energy in the Repub base so they can come and unwind it at the next opportunity they get.

I also think what Trump has done with the EPA is horrendous, and yes CL, don't agree with what you just posted about grey wolves. But I don't want to see the Dems come in and double down by adding all kinds of redtape instead of reinstating and gently marching towards more inroads on environmental protection.

making college more affordable, bipartisanship on deficits and debt, lowering healthcare costs, passing comprehensive immigration reform


Thanks for clarifying. Well you align with the majority of the Democratic Party and probably the majority of this thread's members. I'm further left. But considering there are bigger fish to fry (GOP). I'm not too motivated to debate or try to change your mind.

One thing I will say is that the "moderate Republicans" that we can achieve "bipartisanship" with in Congress is extinct. Probably died with McCain. And there are some truly disgusting positions even McCain took.

The 2 most obstructionist, ineffectual Congresses of all time were when Republicans controlled a part of Congress under our most recent Dem President. https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/FT_19.01.23_CongressProductivity_bar.png

With how polarized our country is. There is too little political capital in being a moderate, bipartisan Republican. They get punished by voters from both parties more so than helped. Susan Collins is seeing that now.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:46 pm    Post subject:

And the extinction of the moderate, bipartisan Republican is why the Democratic Party will have to push further left. Since they'll need to appease members of their further left-leaning caucus to accomplish legislative goals.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:48 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
It really doesn't feel like we're gonna get much change in the polling averages between now and election day. The one potential (and important) exception is Pennsylvania, which it seems like a lot of major pollsters are holding out as the final state they'll poll.


https://mobile.twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1321971755636981760
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:49 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Eric Lipton @EricLiptonNYT

The president was discussing an active criminal case with the authoritarian leader of a nation in which Mr. Trump does business; he reported receiving at least $2.6 million in net income from operations in Turkey from 2015 through 2018


Quote:
And Mr. Trump’s sympathetic response to Mr. Erdogan was especially jarring because it involved accusations that the bank had undercut Mr. Trump’s policy of economically isolating Iran, a centerpiece of his Middle East plan.

Former White House officials said they came to fear that the president was open to swaying the criminal justice system to advance a transactional and ill-defined agenda of his own.


Quote:
Mueller, She Wrote Podcast @MuellerSheWrote

I would like for trump supporters to explain why trump asked Barr to let Halkbank & Erdogan off the hook for a sanctions-busting scheme that FUNDED IRAN'S NUCLEAR WEAPONS PROGRAM after all the (bleep) bluster tearing up the Iran nuclear deal. I'll wait.

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Last edited by SweetP on Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:03 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Kyle Griffin @kylegriffin1

NBC Exclusive: The Hunter Biden 'dossier' that went viral on right-wing internet sites and was later disseminated by Trump's close associates appears to be from a fake 'intelligence firm'.

The author of the report, 'Martin Aspen', does not exist.


This is separate from the "missing" documents Tucker Carlson has been whining about. In this case, they made up an author and used an AI program to create an image they said was him and attached it to fake info.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:32 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Glenn Kirschner @glennkirschner2

Judge Emmett Sullivan Issues Order Rescinding ALL Postmaster General Louis DeJoy’s Policies Designed to Slow Mail Delivery. Judge Sullivan is one of the heroes among us.


Too late for the election, so drop off or vote in person if you have not already. But important for those who get medication via the mail and other things. Plus makes it clear what this judge thinks of the DeJoy policies. Maybe one less thing for the Biden administration to have to reverse in Jan, unless the current administration appeals.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:35 pm    Post subject:

SweetP wrote:
Quote:
Kyle Griffin @kylegriffin1

NBC Exclusive: The Hunter Biden 'dossier' that went viral on right-wing internet sites and was later disseminated by Trump's close associates appears to be from a fake 'intelligence firm'.

The author of the report, 'Martin Aspen', does not exist.


This is separate from the "missing" documents Tucker Carlson has been whining about. In this case, they made up an author and used an AI program to create an image they said was him and attached it to fake info.

Unfortunately, the damage has been done. When Trumpsters read the misinformation they'll run with it. Many others won't see the report that Aspen is nonexistent.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:43 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
SweetP wrote:
Quote:
Kyle Griffin @kylegriffin1

NBC Exclusive: The Hunter Biden 'dossier' that went viral on right-wing internet sites and was later disseminated by Trump's close associates appears to be from a fake 'intelligence firm'.

The author of the report, 'Martin Aspen', does not exist.


This is separate from the "missing" documents Tucker Carlson has been whining about. In this case, they made up an author and used an AI program to create an image they said was him and attached it to fake info.

Unfortunately, the damage has been done. When Trumpsters read the misinformation they'll run with it. Many others won't see the report that Aspen is nonexistent.


True but this explains why main stream media won't touch this stuff with a 10-foot pole and why at least some intelligent voters aren't buying any of these attempts to smear Joe Biden via claims against his son.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:51 pm    Post subject:

SweetP wrote:
jodeke wrote:
SweetP wrote:
Quote:
Kyle Griffin @kylegriffin1

NBC Exclusive: The Hunter Biden 'dossier' that went viral on right-wing internet sites and was later disseminated by Trump's close associates appears to be from a fake 'intelligence firm'.

The author of the report, 'Martin Aspen', does not exist.


This is separate from the "missing" documents Tucker Carlson has been whining about. In this case, they made up an author and used an AI program to create an image they said was him and attached it to fake info.

Unfortunately, the damage has been done. When Trumpsters read the misinformation they'll run with it. Many others won't see the report that Aspen is nonexistent.


True but this explains why main stream media won't touch this stuff with a 10-foot pole and why at least some intelligent voters aren't buying any of these attempts to smear Joe Biden via claims against his son.


Trumps MO. Lie, when it's debunked, tell it again. Some are going to believe it.This administration has no morals or shame.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:05 pm    Post subject:

Tucker Carlson 😂

24 hours ago:

https://twitter.com/tuckercarlson/status/1321608055549775872?s=21

Today:

https://twitter.com/tuckercarlson/status/1321975533786275847?s=21

What a joke! Worst is reading some of the comments of gullible people who still believe this looney.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:06 pm    Post subject:

strong9 wrote:
righteous anger is still anger and still dangerous, and my point has been and remains, for the 100th time, that I'd rather things are done with rational long term solutions in mind and not as a reactionary, righteous angry response. Please explain to me why that triggers so much defensiveness?


Your loaded language speaks volumes to your bias on this subject. You use terms like "reactionary", "rational" and "defensiveness" in a very specific and intellectually dishonest way.

Let's start with "reactionary". Your intent is obviously to reduce the response to what Trump and the GOP have done as simply an emotional overreaction. Nothing could be further from the truth. Trump and those who have enabled him have assaulted this country's decency and equity to a despicable extent. The logical response to that is to move to offset the threat ands diminish the damage. When someone comes to your community, douses it in gasoline and tosses a match on it to set if aflame, it's not "reactionary" to call your neighbors to action to grab their hoses to douse the flames. It's common sense based on a realization of a greater good.

Now let's look at your use of the word "rational" in the context you used it. You claim that to address the immediate threat is not the correct course of action. You assert that the "rational" response is to sit back and let the system sort itself out, as if that is actually an option that will yield a reasonable result. Your approach is the antithesis of the word "rational".

Finally, let's look at how you implement the concept of "defensiveness". When "you're being defensive" arises in the context of this type of conversation, it's simply as a gaslighting tool. It's used as a dismissive device to say, "there's no problem here other than your inability to handle what I see as the truth.

Now let's look at the appropriate ands accurate way to use those words in the context of this conversation. Your preferred approach to the threat to this country is not rational because the threat requires a reactionary response, not patience. And the defensiveness you demonstrate in the above response indicates you realize this, so you attempt to diminish CL's response.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:15 pm    Post subject:

strong9 wrote:

Oh it is all on Trump. But we Americans could have done a better job too.
The kind of crap the Dodgers pulled at the end of the WS typifies why we are still bearing the brunt of the pandemic.


The reason the citizens of this country haven't done "a better job" is because Trump has encouraged his base and others who put their own desires ahead of the greater to ignore simple safety guidelines meant to protect everyone by diminishing the spread and politicized doing so in an extremely divisive way to serve his personal ends.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:29 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
The Hoarse Whisperer @TheRealHoarse

LOL.

The explosive documents Tucker swore had been stolen by deep state package bandits...

Yeah, they were files on a flash drive. As in, electronic copies. Which someone could have just transmitted electronically.

LOL. Clowns. That fell apart quickly.


They shipped a flash drive. Fox team is just having a contest to see just how dumb their viewers are right?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:42 pm    Post subject:

SweetP wrote:
Quote:
The Hoarse Whisperer @TheRealHoarse

LOL.

The explosive documents Tucker swore had been stolen by deep state package bandits...

Yeah, they were files on a flash drive. As in, electronic copies. Which someone could have just transmitted electronically.

LOL. Clowns. That fell apart quickly.


They shipped a flash drive. Fox team is just having a contest to see just how dumb their viewers are right?


LOL! So when Tucker claimed they shared photos of the documents with the alleged shipping company so they could identify them, they just sent a photo of a flash drive as if that was supposed to narrow it down?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:48 pm    Post subject:

Just got an email, text, and phone call saying my ballot was received and will be counted. I dropped my ballot at a secure polling place.

ELECTION COUNTDOWN

GET OUT AND VOTE!!!

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:52 pm    Post subject:

GO JOE, just 4 more days!!
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:45 pm    Post subject:

Jordan-esque wrote:
Tucker Carlson 😂

24 hours ago:

https://twitter.com/tuckercarlson/status/1321608055549775872?s=21

Today:

https://twitter.com/tuckercarlson/status/1321975533786275847?s=21

What a joke! Worst is reading some of the comments of gullible people who still believe this looney.


Well, at least he "does not want to pile on" Hunter...umm, a little late for that?

For Team Trump this story lost its legs pretty quickly. No Comey to help them this time.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:45 pm    Post subject:

I gave my students the day off on Wednesday. I told them that I won't be able to teach the day after the election, regardless what happens. Hopefully I'll be celebrating and drinking my favorite Balkan plum brandy all night with my dad. Or I could be drinking for other reasons.


I do this after every major election. Most of the students say they have either voted or plan to vote, but maybe they're trying to impress me. Who knows. In my state, though, it doesn't really matter since Biden will probably win by more than 20 points. But still, it's important to run up the score.
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