THE Political Thread (ALL Political Discussion Here - See Rules, P. 1)
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 2594, 2595, 2596 ... 2995, 2996, 2997  Next

 
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> Off Topic Reply to topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
trmiv
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 19 Nov 2001
Posts: 17116
Location: Orlando

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:42 am    Post subject:

BTW, filing lawsuits to invalidate votes by citizens is another great example of why one party refuses to operate in good faith and cannot be trusted to be any kind of legitimate balance to the other party. Republicans are not interested in government or working with Democrats to further this country for everyone. They are interested in power, single party minority rule and anything that helps line their pockets.

Any political party that has at their core a belief in restricting the right of citizens to vote cannot be trusted to be in power.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
LakerSanity
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 33067
Location: Long Beach, California

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:42 am    Post subject:

strong9 wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
strong9 wrote:
^ so I guess I am saying I will take stagnation over another reactionary government.


Or, in other words, its okay for Republicans to have been reactionary, setting new precedents that gave them everything that they want, but where there is a risk of Democrats being in power, we should all take a step back and just let the status quo Republican policies remain. Got it. You may not be a republican, but that sounds like a republican plan.

To be credible, I would argue that you should at least allow Democrats to use their power to get things back to a middle ground. Otherwise, your position is simply "I like what the Republicans have done and gotten away with to date, so please don't change it."


Lol. That sounds like my kid saying he hit me first.


What's funny about actions is that they have consequences. Its not about who started it, its about that basic fact. And, so, your position is that the Republicans actions should not have consequences and, apparently okay with where things stand right now, you think the government should stand still.

Again, call yourself a democrat or anything else, but that's a Republican position.
_________________
LakersGround's Terms of Service

Twitter: @DeleteThisPost
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
ChefLinda
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 21165
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:45 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
strong9 wrote:
ribeye wrote:
strong9 wrote:
With all the extreme, reactionary rhetoric on both sides, the best result is actually for a split government. Until both sides learn moderation, I'd prefer a legislative branch controlled by one party and an executive branch controlled by the other.


That is the perfect solution . . . to getting nothing done.

Right now, there is too much wrong to right.


Perhaps but I don't believe a Democratic wave that seems hell bent on righting Trump wrongs is any different than what the Repubs did to the Obama legacy. We can agree change is necessary, but the approach can be completely wrong. Expanding SCOTUS is ridiculous and creates the very same type of precedent that the Repubs are using against us Democrats now.

Our system is broke and more of the same from the other party is not a long term solution.


My friend, I’m afraid you’ve opened the Overton window and drank the Koolaid they passed you through it. Almost everything the Dems want to do is to undo damage done, and to safeguard the right of all voters, including republicans, going forward. Trump didn’t undo radical democratic things, he undid norms and basic needs. Putting the basic decencies and protections back in place and safeguarding them is not equivalent to stripping them. Making sure everyone can vote is not the equivalent of taking the vote from targeted people. Giving people the right to health care isn’t the radical opposite of taking it away. It is normal vs abnormal.


This seems so obvious and self-evident that it's extremely strange that someone with eyes open and paying attention the last few years wouldn't be able to see it.

Like Chick used to say, "You could read that one with Braille."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
DrDent
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 30 Jun 2016
Posts: 7196

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:46 am    Post subject:

trmiv wrote:
BTW, filing lawsuits to invalidate votes by citizens is another great example of why one party refuses to operate in good faith and cannot be trusted to be any kind of legitimate balance to the other party. Republicans are not interested in government or working with Democrats to further this country for everyone. They are interested in power, single party minority rule and anything that helps line their pockets.

Any political party that has at their core a belief in restricting the right of citizens to vote cannot be trusted to be in power.


While I "get" some of the fear Pubs push on this, the bottomline is a democracy needs 1) educated citizens 2) who have reasonable access to vote.

At this juncture, I cannot dispute the evidence shows the current iteration of the Republican party desires neither. It would appear they want folks who dont know better and figure whats the point to vote since its too hard; or in Trump's case, using demagogue-type arguments to a mostly uneducated base to get them to worship him like a demi-god.

Sorry if I offend anyone with that. Perhaps it was a knee jerk response by me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
ChefLinda
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 21165
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:48 am    Post subject:

strong9 wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
strong9 wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
strong9 wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
strong9 wrote:
ribeye wrote:
strong9 wrote:
With all the extreme, reactionary rhetoric on both sides, the best result is actually for a split government. Until both sides learn moderation, I'd prefer a legislative branch controlled by one party and an executive branch controlled by the other.


That is the perfect solution . . . to getting nothing done.

Right now, there is too much wrong to right.


Perhaps but I don't believe a Democratic wave that seems hell bent on righting Trump wrongs is any different than what the Repubs did to the Obama legacy. We can agree change is necessary, but the approach can be completely wrong. Expanding SCOTUS is ridiculous and creates the very same type of precedent that the Repubs are using against us Democrats now.

Our system is broke and more of the same from the other party is not a long term solution.


Here's why both sides are not the same.

Republicans vote exclusively to benefit the rich and corporations.
Democrats vote mostly to benefit the middle-class, working class and poor.

That makes one party greedy and self-interested and the other party noble and inclusive.

Republicans use their power solely for themselves.
Democrats mostly use their power to help others.


That kind of holier than thou is making my point.


Prove that my statements are inaccurate.


I don't have issues with the substance of your message. But your vitriol reaffirms my fear of a reactionary response by Dems and that is never a good way to govern. That's all I am saying. I mean no disrespect to you.


My vitriol stems from anger at the harm done to defenseless children, 220K dead Americans, 8 million infected, millions thrown into poverty, racism directed at Latinx, blacks, Asians, and anger at the party that stood by and said nothing while Trump and his accomplices caused terrible harm to my fellow Americans. Do the people who caused this harm deserve a neutral "whatever, both parties are the same?" Or have they earned the anger directed at them due to the incalculable pain and suffering they have callously inflicted? My anger is righteous.

I'm not angry because I have to wear a mask. I'm angry that because of the anti-science incompetence of many GOP leaders that a good percentage of their followers won't wear masks and that defiance extends this plague and causes unneeded hardship, pain and death for their fellow Americans.

Both sides are not the same. And their motives are not the same.


Okay. And righteous anger is still anger and still dangerous, and my point has been and remains, for the 100th time, that I'd rather things are done with rational long term solutions in mind and not as a reactionary, righteous angry response. Please explain to me why that triggers so much defensiveness?


Just because I'm angry doesn't mean Nancy Pelosi or Chuck Schumer is going to turn into a leftwing socialist and start calling for the arrests of their political enemies. LOL. No they will pass sane normal legislation like the Voting Rights Act, and COVID relief, and infrastructure bills, and jobs bills.

I mean, what exactly is it that you think Nancy and Chuck are going to do? Seriously?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
strong9
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 22 Mar 2003
Posts: 1815
Location: so many places

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:48 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
strong9 wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
strong9 wrote:
^ so I guess I am saying I will take stagnation over another reactionary government.


Or, in other words, its okay for Republicans to have been reactionary, setting new precedents that gave them everything that they want, but where there is a risk of Democrats being in power, we should all take a step back and just let the status quo Republican policies remain. Got it. You may not be a republican, but that sounds like a republican plan.

To be credible, I would argue that you should at least allow Democrats to use their power to get things back to a middle ground. Otherwise, your position is simply "I like what the Republicans have done and gotten away with to date, so please don't change it."


Lol. That sounds like my kid saying he hit me first.


What's funny about actions is that they have consequences. Its not about who started it, its about that basic fact. And, so, your position is that the Republicans actions should not have consequences and, apparently okay with where things stand right now, you think the government should stand still.

Again, call yourself a democrat or anything else, but that's a Republican position.


Right. And your point is that the ends justify the means here. Fair enough. But how is that any different from the Republican position? My point is and remains procedural and for some reason that makes me a Republican though everyone in this thread has rightly bemoaned the lack of respect for procedural norms over the past 3 years.
_________________
"If Kobe says f everybody, then f everybody"

- Mambamentality 24/8
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
FernieBee
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 17 Nov 2003
Posts: 2595
Location: 6.1.9

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:48 am    Post subject:

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

A Repub by any (other) name would still reek.



_________________
Lakers & Dodgers
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
strong9
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 22 Mar 2003
Posts: 1815
Location: so many places

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:51 am    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
strong9 wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
strong9 wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
strong9 wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
strong9 wrote:
ribeye wrote:
strong9 wrote:
With all the extreme, reactionary rhetoric on both sides, the best result is actually for a split government. Until both sides learn moderation, I'd prefer a legislative branch controlled by one party and an executive branch controlled by the other.


That is the perfect solution . . . to getting nothing done.

Right now, there is too much wrong to right.


Perhaps but I don't believe a Democratic wave that seems hell bent on righting Trump wrongs is any different than what the Repubs did to the Obama legacy. We can agree change is necessary, but the approach can be completely wrong. Expanding SCOTUS is ridiculous and creates the very same type of precedent that the Repubs are using against us Democrats now.

Our system is broke and more of the same from the other party is not a long term solution.


Here's why both sides are not the same.

Republicans vote exclusively to benefit the rich and corporations.
Democrats vote mostly to benefit the middle-class, working class and poor.

That makes one party greedy and self-interested and the other party noble and inclusive.

Republicans use their power solely for themselves.
Democrats mostly use their power to help others.


That kind of holier than thou is making my point.


Prove that my statements are inaccurate.


I don't have issues with the substance of your message. But your vitriol reaffirms my fear of a reactionary response by Dems and that is never a good way to govern. That's all I am saying. I mean no disrespect to you.


My vitriol stems from anger at the harm done to defenseless children, 220K dead Americans, 8 million infected, millions thrown into poverty, racism directed at Latinx, blacks, Asians, and anger at the party that stood by and said nothing while Trump and his accomplices caused terrible harm to my fellow Americans. Do the people who caused this harm deserve a neutral "whatever, both parties are the same?" Or have they earned the anger directed at them due to the incalculable pain and suffering they have callously inflicted? My anger is righteous.

I'm not angry because I have to wear a mask. I'm angry that because of the anti-science incompetence of many GOP leaders that a good percentage of their followers won't wear masks and that defiance extends this plague and causes unneeded hardship, pain and death for their fellow Americans.

Both sides are not the same. And their motives are not the same.


Okay. And righteous anger is still anger and still dangerous, and my point has been and remains, for the 100th time, that I'd rather things are done with rational long term solutions in mind and not as a reactionary, righteous angry response. Please explain to me why that triggers so much defensiveness?


Just because I'm angry doesn't mean Nancy Pelosi or Chuck Schumer is going to turn into a leftwing socialist and start calling for the arrests of their political enemies. LOL. No they will pass sane normal legislation like the Voting Rights Act, and COVID relief, and infrastructure bills, and jobs bills.

I mean, what exactly is it that you think Nancy and Chuck are going to do? Seriously?


I've expressed that. Will they cater to the extreme left and overstep as a reaction to the last 3 years or do as you say.
_________________
"If Kobe says f everybody, then f everybody"

- Mambamentality 24/8
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
ChefLinda
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 21165
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:53 am    Post subject:

And, BTW, anger itself isn't dangerous. What one chooses to do with the anger can go either way. Mature, educated people can use anger as a motivator to get useful things done. Immature people like Trump use their anger to wield harm and vengeance.

Again, the difference between the two parties. And make no mistake, the Republican Party and the Party of Trump are now one and the same.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
jodeke
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 54992
Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a learning experience.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:56 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Would a 3rd party be a solution or more of a log jam? Independents are on the rise.


big fan of a viable alternative/3rd party but right now is not the time, need to focus of getting rid of the biggest danger to Americans

Not meaning at this moment. If Biden wins he'll have his hands full. He's said he will only do 1 term, which means we have to elect Kamala. She'll have the task of continuing to fix all Biden was unable to. I'm wondering more in the future?
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

Your prayers are always answered. Sometimes the answer is NO.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
FernieBee
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 17 Nov 2003
Posts: 2595
Location: 6.1.9

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:58 am    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
...the Republican Party and the Party of Trump are now one and the same.


Trump broke that party, and they--Repubs--allowed it and caused it to happen.


_________________
Lakers & Dodgers
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
ChefLinda
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 21165
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:00 am    Post subject:

strong9 wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:


Just because I'm angry doesn't mean Nancy Pelosi or Chuck Schumer is going to turn into a leftwing socialist and start calling for the arrests of their political enemies. LOL. No they will pass sane normal legislation like the Voting Rights Act, and COVID relief, and infrastructure bills, and jobs bills.

I mean, what exactly is it that you think Nancy and Chuck are going to do? Seriously?


I've expressed that. Will they cater to the extreme left and overstep as a reaction to the last 3 years or do as you say.


Show me an example of Nancy Pelosi or Chuck Schumer or Joe Biden caving to the extreme left and doing something, anything at all, "radical." Is keeping Obamacare and adding a public option radical? As if the GOP trying to take away healthcare in the middle of a pandemic is *not* radical?

Biden ran on *not* doing Medicare for all. You remember that part, right? Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders didn't win, right?

Is restoring the Voting Rights Act and making sure neither Republicans nor Democrats can gerrymander themselves into extra seats a radical notion? As compared to GOP crazy over gerrymandering and voter suppression?

One side is radical, all right. It's the Republican side.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
strong9
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 22 Mar 2003
Posts: 1815
Location: so many places

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:01 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
governator wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Would a 3rd party be a solution or more of a log jam? Independents are on the rise.


big fan of a viable alternative/3rd party but right now is not the time, need to focus of getting rid of the biggest danger to Americans

Not meaning at this moment. If Biden wins he'll have his hands full. He's said he will only do 1 term, which means we have to elect Kamala. She'll have the task of continuing to fix all Biden was unable to. I'm wondering more in the future?


A change is absolutely necessary as both parties move more and more to the extremes of their respective sides.
_________________
"If Kobe says f everybody, then f everybody"

- Mambamentality 24/8
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
governator
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 17106

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:02 am    Post subject:

strong9 wrote:
jodeke wrote:
governator wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Would a 3rd party be a solution or more of a log jam? Independents are on the rise.


big fan of a viable alternative/3rd party but right now is not the time, need to focus of getting rid of the biggest danger to Americans

Not meaning at this moment. If Biden wins he'll have his hands full. He's said he will only do 1 term, which means we have to elect Kamala. She'll have the task of continuing to fix all Biden was unable to. I'm wondering more in the future?


A change is absolutely necessary as both parties move more and more to the extremes of their respective sides.


You think so? I think both parties move to the right
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
strong9
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 22 Mar 2003
Posts: 1815
Location: so many places

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:13 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
strong9 wrote:
jodeke wrote:
governator wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Would a 3rd party be a solution or more of a log jam? Independents are on the rise.


big fan of a viable alternative/3rd party but right now is not the time, need to focus of getting rid of the biggest danger to Americans

Not meaning at this moment. If Biden wins he'll have his hands full. He's said he will only do 1 term, which means we have to elect Kamala. She'll have the task of continuing to fix all Biden was unable to. I'm wondering more in the future?


A change is absolutely necessary as both parties move more and more to the extremes of their respective sides.


You think so? I think both parties move to the right


Lol.

Seriously though, I do think both parties are becoming intractable. I do think move center left is inevitable but Repubs are fighting it as the existential threat it is while certain Dems are trying to push it along faster. I look at the UK. I lived there during 2007when there was a change from Labour to the Tories and some of the things we think of as left center here are considered shared baseline platform positions fir each party. I don't know if Repubs ever get there but they are more likely to do so depending on how Dems approach this upcoming 2 years of complete control.

I don't hold out much hope either way. This article says it perfectly for me.

https://theweek.com/articles/694540/americas-endless-cycle-reactionary-politics
_________________
"If Kobe says f everybody, then f everybody"

- Mambamentality 24/8
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
LakerSanity
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 33067
Location: Long Beach, California

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:13 am    Post subject:

strong9 wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
strong9 wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
strong9 wrote:
^ so I guess I am saying I will take stagnation over another reactionary government.


Or, in other words, its okay for Republicans to have been reactionary, setting new precedents that gave them everything that they want, but where there is a risk of Democrats being in power, we should all take a step back and just let the status quo Republican policies remain. Got it. You may not be a republican, but that sounds like a republican plan.

To be credible, I would argue that you should at least allow Democrats to use their power to get things back to a middle ground. Otherwise, your position is simply "I like what the Republicans have done and gotten away with to date, so please don't change it."


Lol. That sounds like my kid saying he hit me first.


What's funny about actions is that they have consequences. Its not about who started it, its about that basic fact. And, so, your position is that the Republicans actions should not have consequences and, apparently okay with where things stand right now, you think the government should stand still.

Again, call yourself a democrat or anything else, but that's a Republican position.


Right. And your point is that the ends justify the means here. Fair enough. But how is that any different from the Republican position? My point is and remains procedural and for some reason that makes me a Republican though everyone in this thread has rightly bemoaned the lack of respect for procedural norms over the past 3 years.


No, my point is not that the ends justify the means. My point is that if you do something, there will be a response to it. If you've done something that is good and just, the response will be positive. If you've done something harmful and oppressive, the response is likely something you won't like.

And how does ignoring procedural norms make Democrats any different from Republicans in that regard? It doesn't. Which is fine. You cannot play a game by a different set of rules than your opponent. The point which you seem to failing to recognize is that Republicans took things out of normalcy. Until things get back to normalcy - and they agree to abide by procedural norms when they have the power (rather than just seeking such norms again only when they do not) - then maybe things can get back to how they should be. That isn't the case now because, unfortunately, the Republicans blew that up.

Because of the Republicans' actions, there is no such thing as procedural norms, courtesy, respect or good faith. Republicans have shown that if you try to engage in any of that, it will be taken advantage of to your detriment. All that matters now is black and white laws which, if violated, have consequences (and, with the packing of the courts, even that is up for some debate right now).

Clamor for the Democrats to act "normal" when things have actually returned to "normal". Until then, only those aligned with Republicans would want to prevent Democrats from doing everything they can to undue the horrific damage Republicans have done to our country and our institutions.
_________________
LakersGround's Terms of Service

Twitter: @DeleteThisPost
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
strong9
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 22 Mar 2003
Posts: 1815
Location: so many places

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:18 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
strong9 wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
strong9 wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
strong9 wrote:
^ so I guess I am saying I will take stagnation over another reactionary government.


Or, in other words, its okay for Republicans to have been reactionary, setting new precedents that gave them everything that they want, but where there is a risk of Democrats being in power, we should all take a step back and just let the status quo Republican policies remain. Got it. You may not be a republican, but that sounds like a republican plan.

To be credible, I would argue that you should at least allow Democrats to use their power to get things back to a middle ground. Otherwise, your position is simply "I like what the Republicans have done and gotten away with to date, so please don't change it."


Lol. That sounds like my kid saying he hit me first.


What's funny about actions is that they have consequences. Its not about who started it, its about that basic fact. And, so, your position is that the Republicans actions should not have consequences and, apparently okay with where things stand right now, you think the government should stand still.

Again, call yourself a democrat or anything else, but that's a Republican position.


Right. And your point is that the ends justify the means here. Fair enough. But how is that any different from the Republican position? My point is and remains procedural and for some reason that makes me a Republican though everyone in this thread has rightly bemoaned the lack of respect for procedural norms over the past 3 years.


No, my point is not that the ends justify the means. My point is that if you do something, there will be a response to it. If you've done something that is good and just, the response will be positive. If you've done something harmful and oppressive, the response is likely something you won't like.

And how does ignoring procedural norms make Democrats any different from Republicans in that regard? It doesn't. Which is fine. You cannot play a game by a different set of rules than your opponent. The point which you seem to failing to recognize is that Republicans took things out of normalcy. Until things get back to normalcy - and they agree to abide by procedural norms when they have the power (rather than just seeking such norms again only when they do not) - then maybe things can get back to how they should be. That isn't the case now because, unfortunately, the Republicans blew that up.

Because of the Republicans' actions, there is no such thing as procedural norms, courtesy, respect or good faith. Republicans have shown that if you try to engage in any of that, it will be taken advantage of to your detriment. All that matters now is black and white laws which, if violated, have consequences (and, with the packing of the courts, even that is up for some debate right now).

Clamor for the Democrats to act "normal" when things have actually returned to "normal". Until then, only those aligned with Republicans would want to prevent Democrats from doing everything they can to undue the horrific damage Republicans have done to our country and our institutions.


Unless you set the example by bringing a return normal and civility when you hold power. It takes tremendous courage and ability to achieve your goals and do it in a way where you don't get mud on yourself. Hoping this batch of Dems is up to the task.
_________________
"If Kobe says f everybody, then f everybody"

- Mambamentality 24/8
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
LakerSanity
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 33067
Location: Long Beach, California

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:20 am    Post subject:

I fully expect a handful of Trump sycophants to be arrested, prosecuted and jailed, including Trump himself. Unlike attempts to go after Hillary Clinton, those will not be political prosecutions, but just prosecutions based on people who actually violated laws. There is nothing extreme about enforcing laws that have been broken.

It was within the Republicans power to not vote on Garland and appoint whoever they wanted to SCOTUS. If the Dems win the Senate, it will be within their power to expand the court if they so choose. If one side exercises their judicial power, the other side may do the same. There is nothing extreme about using one's authority as constitutionally permitted when your opponent, given the opportunity, already did the same.
_________________
LakersGround's Terms of Service

Twitter: @DeleteThisPost
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
LakerSanity
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 33067
Location: Long Beach, California

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:24 am    Post subject:

strong9 wrote:
Unless you set the example by bringing a return normal and civility when you hold power. It takes tremendous courage and ability to achieve your goals and do it in a way where you don't get mud on yourself. Hoping this batch of Dems is up to the task.


Democrats have traditionally done that and it hasn't changed the other side one bit. What changes behavior is consequences, understanding that both sides have to abide by the same rules.

That being said, Democrats will not due anything beyond their constitutional authority. They will not due anything illegal. They will not hide evidence, obstruct justice or engage in flat out chronyism using the DOJ to mask their unlawful and/or, at best, unethical acts. They will protect those who cannot protect themselves and do their best to help all of us, not just those who can afford to line a politician's pockets. This in and of itself should be enough to re-set the standard back to what you are looking for, only for the Republicans to reverse course once again if they ever manage to get back some power.
_________________
LakersGround's Terms of Service

Twitter: @DeleteThisPost
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
strong9
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 22 Mar 2003
Posts: 1815
Location: so many places

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:28 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
strong9 wrote:
Unless you set the example by bringing a return normal and civility when you hold power. It takes tremendous courage and ability to achieve your goals and do it in a way where you don't get mud on yourself. Hoping this batch of Dems is up to the task.


Democrats have traditionally done that and it hasn't changed the other side one bit. What changes behavior is consequences, understanding that both sides have to abide by the same rules.

That being said, Democrats will not due anything beyond their constitutional authority. They will not due anything illegal. They will not hide evidence, obstruct justice or engage in flat out chronyism using the DOJ to mask their unlawful and/or, at best, unethical acts. They will protect those who cannot protect themselves and do their best to help all of us, not just those who can afford to line a politician's pockets. This in and of itself should be enough to re-set the standard back to what you are looking for, only for the Republicans to reverse course once again if they ever manage to get back some power.


To be fair both parties have members who do this. Repubs just take it to a different level because, as currently constituted, they are on the losing side of history, and they know it. Also doesn't help Repubs that in modern times they have had the two most corrupt Presidents.
_________________
"If Kobe says f everybody, then f everybody"

- Mambamentality 24/8
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Wilt
LG Contributor
LG Contributor


Joined: 29 Dec 2002
Posts: 12550

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:30 am    Post subject:

Quinnipiac has Biden up by 7 in Pennsylvania. Most importantly, above 50 percent.

Now he has an 86% chance of winning that state, just below his number to win the electoral college.


Up by 3 in Ohio. Up by 3 in Florida. But under 50 percent. Down by 1 in Iowa.
_________________
¡Hala Madrid!


Last edited by Wilt on Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:35 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
kikanga
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 25170
Location: La La Land

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:35 am    Post subject:

strong9 wrote:

Unless you set the example by bringing a return normal and civility when you hold power. It takes tremendous courage and ability to achieve your goals and do it in a way where you don't get mud on yourself. Hoping this batch of Dems is up to the task.


A corrupt court isn't worth protecting. A broken policy isn't worth preserving. And when someone's family member dies because pre-existing conditions weren't covered in their insurance anymore. Or someone's family member dies because the COVID aid package was shrunk to make it "bi-partisan". I urge you to attend the funeral and tell them. "Hey, hey, hey. We had to return to normalcy. There may be blood on our hands, but their isn't mud on our boots!"

So easy to appeal to lofty abstract BS. When the actual lives on the line are ignored.
_________________
“No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man.” - Heraclitus
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
strong9
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 22 Mar 2003
Posts: 1815
Location: so many places

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:49 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
strong9 wrote:

Unless you set the example by bringing a return normal and civility when you hold power. It takes tremendous courage and ability to achieve your goals and do it in a way where you don't get mud on yourself. Hoping this batch of Dems is up to the task.


A corrupt court isn't worth protecting. A broken policy isn't worth preserving. And when someone's family member dies because pre-existing conditions weren't covered in their insurance anymore. Or someone's family member dies because the COVID aid package was shrunk to make it "bi-partisan". I urge you to attend the funeral and tell them. "Hey, hey, hey. We had to return to normalcy. There may be blood on our hands, but their isn't mud on our boots!"

So easy to appeal to lofty abstract BS. When the actual lives on the line are ignored.


You can't rule on emotions either. You have to rule in reality. Easy for us to sit here and make impassioned pleas just as politicians do to get elected. But then reality kicks in. Having said that, I don't think I've at any point disagreed on any of those issues. I agree with all of them. But you can bring about that change without going to the other end. Those are all things a majority of Americans agree with, even across party lines.
_________________
"If Kobe says f everybody, then f everybody"

- Mambamentality 24/8
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Omar Little
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 87859
Location: Formerly Known As 24

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:54 am    Post subject:

I wonder if someone stole a bunch of property from his neighbors, would Strong9 advocate that instead of returning the property to the owners and punishing the thief, he/she thinks the judicial system should let the thief keep the goods and should have the neighbors work with him on ideas for how they can cooperate on rules that keep neighbors from stealing form each other?
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
strong9
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 22 Mar 2003
Posts: 1815
Location: so many places

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:55 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
I wonder if someone stole a bunch of property from his neighbors, would Strong9 advocate that instead of returning the property to the owners and punishing the thief, he/she thinks the judicial system should let the thief keep the goods and should have the neighbors work with him on ideas for how they can cooperate on rules that keep neighbors from stealing form each other?


Without turning this into something ugly, I have Palestinian family members so you decide how I'd answer that.

Edit: to be clear my point is I have to live in reality and do what I can to achieve the best result for all, don't I?
_________________
"If Kobe says f everybody, then f everybody"

- Mambamentality 24/8
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> Off Topic All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 2594, 2595, 2596 ... 2995, 2996, 2997  Next
Page 2595 of 2997
Jump to:  

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum






Graphics by uberzev
© 1995-2018 LakersGround.net. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy. Terms of Use.
LakersGround is an unofficial news source serving the fan community since 1995.
We are in no way associated with the Los Angeles Lakers or the National Basketball Association.


Powered by phpBB