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ribeye
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 Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| trmiv wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | trmiv wrote: | | Not to mention as far as tax rates go, Biden’s plan just raises the top rate it to what it was before Trump’s plan. Were small business suffering in 2014? 2015? 2016? |
Actually it will be at 28%, while it was at 35% during the Bush 43 and Obama administrations and higher under Clinton. Reagan lowered it 3 times, the last to . . . drum roll . . .
28% |
I meant the individual tax rate on incomes above 400,000 not the corporate tax rate. |
That is a pretty fugly color you are painting.
The same applies. Clinton, raising the high marginal tax rate to 39.6%, had a better GDP than any Republican full term president since 1900. And that was for income over 250K, not 400K.
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 7:56 am Post subject: |
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| Lucky_Shot wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | Lucky_Shot wrote: | The main reason Biden can easily lose this election is his terrible tax plan.
People making over 400k will be taxed at over 60% in California. That's not including a 10% sales tax... So basically everyone here making that much will be taxed at 70%.
You might consider that rich and they can afford it but they're not billionaires who have no problems. These are people running small businesses competing with corporations.
It will kill california small business... He put small business owners and the business community at large in a tight position. Vote for a jackass who divides this country, Trump or vote for an idiot trying to bankrupt everyone, Biden. |
I hate these misrepresentations of tax. If you are taxed at say 60% for income over $400K, only that income over $400K is taxed at 60%.
Everyone's income is taxed the same (though not everyone can write off a large portion of it). Everyone's (I'll keep it simple and only mention singles) income between ~10K and ~40K is taxed at 12%. EVERYONE. Everyone's income between ~40K and ~85K is taxed at 22%. EVERYONE. And on and on.
Now if you are a small business owner and you make $400K income, I don't know how you will be put out of business. I bet a lot of small businesses wished they had an income of $400k a year.
And, by the way, the federal tax rate alone was between 63% and 94% from 1930-1981, and over 70% in all but five of those years. The GDP from those years was far higher than the years after. From 1933 to 1981 (the FDR Revolution), the GDP was 4.69%. From 1982 - 2019 (the Reagan Revolution), it was 2.72%. I'll make this caveat: They (BEA--Bureau of Economic Analysis) sometimes revise GDP numbers so my numbers, a few years outdated, might to be exact. But they are very close. |
You can try and paint it any color you like. His tax plan hurts businesses across the nation. Everyone in the business community sees it and talks about it
.... Its a really bad plan. Like lose an election bad |
You’re half right. They do talk about it. Just like they talk about every expense or hurdle to more profit. It’s what business owners and wealthy people do, grouse about the dire consequences of losing a dime of their stack.
If you talk to business owners, they will invariably discuss taxes, regulation, and wages/benefits as the biggest threat to their livelihood, when it is actually the difficulty and high cost of capitalizing a business, the length of time it takes to get to profitability, competition, and poor business and money decisions.
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trmiv
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 7:56 am Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | trmiv wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | trmiv wrote: | | Not to mention as far as tax rates go, Biden’s plan just raises the top rate it to what it was before Trump’s plan. Were small business suffering in 2014? 2015? 2016? |
Actually it will be at 28%, while it was at 35% during the Bush 43 and Obama administrations and higher under Clinton. Reagan lowered it 3 times, the last to . . . drum roll . . .
28% |
I meant the individual tax rate on incomes above 400,000 not the corporate tax rate. |
That is a pretty fugly color you are painting.
The same applies. Clinton, raising the high marginal tax rate to 39.6%, had a better GDP than any Republican full term president since 1900. And that was for income over 250K, not 400K. |
I’m not arguing with you about taxes, that was Lucky_Shot  |
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Lucky_Shot
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 7:57 am Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | Lucky_Shot wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | Lucky_Shot wrote: | The main reason Biden can easily lose this election is his terrible tax plan.
People making over 400k will be taxed at over 60% in California. That's not including a 10% sales tax... So basically everyone here making that much will be taxed at 70%.
You might consider that rich and they can afford it but they're not billionaires who have no problems. These are people running small businesses competing with corporations.
It will kill california small business... He put small business owners and the business community at large in a tight position. Vote for a jackass who divides this country, Trump or vote for an idiot trying to bankrupt everyone, Biden. |
I hate these misrepresentations of tax. If you are taxed at say 60% for income over $400K, only that income over $400K is taxed at 60%.
Everyone's income is taxed the same (though not everyone can write off a large portion of it). Everyone's (I'll keep it simple and only mention singles) income between ~10K and ~40K is taxed at 12%. EVERYONE. Everyone's income between ~40K and ~85K is taxed at 22%. EVERYONE. And on and on.
Now if you are a small business owner and you make $400K income, I don't know how you will be put out of business. I bet a lot of small businesses wished they had an income of $400k a year.
And, by the way, the federal tax rate alone was between 63% and 94% from 1930-1981, and over 70% in all but five of those years. The GDP from those years was far higher than the years after. From 1933 to 1981 (the FDR Revolution), the GDP was 4.69%. From 1982 - 2019 (the Reagan Revolution), it was 2.72%. I'll make this caveat: They (BEA--Bureau of Economic Analysis) sometimes revise GDP numbers so my numbers, a few years outdated, might to be exact. But they are very close. |
You can try and paint it any color you like. His tax plan hurts businesses across the nation. Everyone in the business community sees it and talks about it
.... Its a really bad plan. Like lose an election bad |
The Trump/GOP tax bailouts for corporations and the rich just made them all much, much richer over the last couple of years and especially during the pandemic -- while everyone else got massively hurt. This is about balancing the scales and helping regular people instead of making the rich richer.
Most people actually do get that. They know income inequality is a major problem and the only way to reverse that is to tax the rich at the rates they used to be taxed at before Republicans gave them all huge amounts of free money. Do you know what they they did with those increased profits? Did they re-invest in expanding their business or in their workers or the economy? No, they cashed out and pocketed the money for themselves. The only way to put that money back into the economy - for the good of everyone, even them - is to make the rich and corporations pay their fair share of taxes. |
People making 400k a year arent billionaires or ceo's of corporations. He is raising taxes on small business across the nation's. It's hurts the back bone of the country.
Think if you had a business and had 15 emploees in LA. If Biden got his way every dollar you made past 400k was taxed at more than 60% and you still had to pay 10% on everything you bought.
Think about how much that would hurt your business and how much less you could reinvest into the business to grow.
You want to raise taxes on the mega rich... fine but that's not what Biden is doing
Last edited by Lucky_Shot on Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:03 am; edited 1 time in total |
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nickuku
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 7:57 am Post subject: |
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Just dropped off my ballot.
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ribeye
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 7:59 am Post subject: |
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| trmiv wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | trmiv wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | trmiv wrote: | | Not to mention as far as tax rates go, Biden’s plan just raises the top rate it to what it was before Trump’s plan. Were small business suffering in 2014? 2015? 2016? |
Actually it will be at 28%, while it was at 35% during the Bush 43 and Obama administrations and higher under Clinton. Reagan lowered it 3 times, the last to . . . drum roll . . .
28% |
I meant the individual tax rate on incomes above 400,000 not the corporate tax rate. |
That is a pretty fugly color you are painting.
The same applies. Clinton, raising the high marginal tax rate to 39.6%, had a better GDP than any Republican full term president since 1900. And that was for income over 250K, not 400K. |
I’m not arguing with you about taxes, that was Lucky_Shot |
In my best Rick Perry, oops.
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Hector the Pup
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 7:59 am Post subject: |
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| Lucky_Shot wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | Lucky_Shot wrote: | The main reason Biden can easily lose this election is his terrible tax plan.
People making over 400k will be taxed at over 60% in California. That's not including a 10% sales tax... So basically everyone here making that much will be taxed at 70%.
You might consider that rich and they can afford it but they're not billionaires who have no problems. These are people running small businesses competing with corporations.
It will kill california small business... He put small business owners and the business community at large in a tight position. Vote for a jackass who divides this country, Trump or vote for an idiot trying to bankrupt everyone, Biden. |
I hate these misrepresentations of tax. If you are taxed at say 60% for income over $400K, only that income over $400K is taxed at 60%.
Everyone's income is taxed the same (though not everyone can write off a large portion of it). Everyone's (I'll keep it simple and only mention singles) income between ~10K and ~40K is taxed at 12%. EVERYONE. Everyone's income between ~40K and ~85K is taxed at 22%. EVERYONE. And on and on.
Now if you are a small business owner and you make $400K income, I don't know how you will be put out of business. I bet a lot of small businesses wished they had an income of $400k a year.
And, by the way, the federal tax rate alone was between 63% and 94% from 1930-1981, and over 70% in all but five of those years. The GDP from those years was far higher than the years after. From 1933 to 1981 (the FDR Revolution), the GDP was 4.69%. From 1982 - 2019 (the Reagan Revolution), it was 2.72%. I'll make this caveat: They (BEA--Bureau of Economic Analysis) sometimes revise GDP numbers so my numbers, a few years outdated, might to be exact. But they are very close. |
You can try and paint it any color you like. His tax plan hurts businesses across the nation. Everyone in the business community sees it and talks about it
.... Its a really bad plan. Like lose an election bad |
Everyone in the business community is talking about it the same way that farmers were talking about the inheritance tax, as in most of them don't understand it, nor do they make enough for it to impact them, but someone who also doesn't understand it told them to be mad and he was wearing a tie so he must be smart. |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| Lucky_Shot wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | Lucky_Shot wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | Lucky_Shot wrote: | The main reason Biden can easily lose this election is his terrible tax plan.
People making over 400k will be taxed at over 60% in California. That's not including a 10% sales tax... So basically everyone here making that much will be taxed at 70%.
You might consider that rich and they can afford it but they're not billionaires who have no problems. These are people running small businesses competing with corporations.
It will kill california small business... He put small business owners and the business community at large in a tight position. Vote for a jackass who divides this country, Trump or vote for an idiot trying to bankrupt everyone, Biden. |
I hate these misrepresentations of tax. If you are taxed at say 60% for income over $400K, only that income over $400K is taxed at 60%.
Everyone's income is taxed the same (though not everyone can write off a large portion of it). Everyone's (I'll keep it simple and only mention singles) income between ~10K and ~40K is taxed at 12%. EVERYONE. Everyone's income between ~40K and ~85K is taxed at 22%. EVERYONE. And on and on.
Now if you are a small business owner and you make $400K income, I don't know how you will be put out of business. I bet a lot of small businesses wished they had an income of $400k a year.
And, by the way, the federal tax rate alone was between 63% and 94% from 1930-1981, and over 70% in all but five of those years. The GDP from those years was far higher than the years after. From 1933 to 1981 (the FDR Revolution), the GDP was 4.69%. From 1982 - 2019 (the Reagan Revolution), it was 2.72%. I'll make this caveat: They (BEA--Bureau of Economic Analysis) sometimes revise GDP numbers so my numbers, a few years outdated, might to be exact. But they are very close. |
You can try and paint it any color you like. His tax plan hurts businesses across the nation. Everyone in the business community sees it and talks about it
.... Its a really bad plan. Like lose an election bad |
The Trump/GOP tax bailouts for corporations and the rich just made them all much, much richer over the last couple of years and especially during the pandemic -- while everyone else got massively hurt. This is about balancing the scales and helping regular people instead of making the rich richer.
Most people actually do get that. They know income inequality is a major problem and the only way to reverse that is to tax the rich at the rates they used to be taxed at before Republicans gave them all huge amounts of free money. Do you know what they they did with those increased profits? Did they re-invest in expanding their business or in their workers or the economy? No, they cashed out and pocketed the money for themselves. The only way to put that money back into the economy - for the good of everyone, even them - is to make the rich and corporations pay their fair share of taxes. |
People making 400k a year arent billionaires or ceo's of corporations. He is raising taxes on small business across the nation's. It's hurts the back bone of the country.
Think if you had a business and had 15 emploees in LA. If Biden got his way every dollar you made past 400k was taxed at more than 60% and you still had to pay 10% on everything you bought.
Think about how much that would hurt your business and how much less you could reinvest into the business to grow.
You want to raise taxes on the mega rich... fine but that's not what Biden is doing |
Poor, poor, $400,000aires, which, is a million in 2.5 years. How many people here, after deductions make $400,000 or more a year. According to the Tax Policy Center, if you make above $250K, you are in the top 5%. What's $400K, top 3ish%?
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jodeke
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | unleasHell wrote: |
because I really disliked Hillary |
I've asked too many times to remember as I always ask this simple question when I see that statement:
Why? (I'm looking for specifics and not simple unverifiable talking points.) |
LINK
^ The same answer I always get. When I dislike a politician, I can and do explain why. Too many, it certainly appears, only mimic the right wing talking machine and become part of that vast right wing conspiracy that was and is very real.
It seems to me, that if I have a strong opinion, or philosophy, I want to be able to explain it and I want to be consistent. Other's, apparently, are just content to be part of the flock. |
FIFY
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trmiv
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:10 am Post subject: |
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I mean look at this poor small business owner in Orlando that threatened his employees they’d be laid off if Biden wins
https://www.wesh.com/article/layoffs-if-biden-wins-orlando-worker-fired/34454507
Meanwhile he gave $614,000 to Trump’s campaign, PACs and other republicans this year. Man he’s really going to struggle putting food on the table with Biden’s plan |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:12 am Post subject: |
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Wouldn't it be nice if we had a crickets option here. It would most def gets use.
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:20 am Post subject: |
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If you're a small business person who votes for Trump because of the tax issue, you are also delaying the full recovery of the economy as a whole because Trump has no plan to address COVID. If you don't address COVID, long term outlook for small business looks TERRIBLE.
Would you rather still have a business and pay a little more in tax OR go out of business because the economy was so slow to recover?
I am a small business owner. However, I don't make over $400K. But the concept still applies. I'd rather pay more tax if it meant I still HAD a business to run when this is all over vs going out of business due to Trump's incompetence. |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:23 am Post subject: |
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What Lucky_Shot (hey I got it right this time) and most, if not all Republicans, want is more. Always more. They have no problem bribing Republicans to cut their taxes (at the expense of our children) (not theirs as they will inherit that wealth) (at a far lower tax rate than does a man who breaks his back for, maybe, a day of leisure).
But the reality is this myth that tax hikes hurt the economy, when it has been demonstrated time after time that a rising tide lifts all ships. I really think their problem is this rising of other ships, maybe ships that don't look like theirs.
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:35 am Post subject: |
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That's the basic difference between the two parties:
Republicans: I only care about me (and my rich donors and enablers).
Democrats: We are all in this together and we want as many people as possible to do better because then we all do better.
I vs We.
Same reason young Libertarian type men on the left identify with GOP tax policy.
Selfishness vs The Greater Good. |
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C M B
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:37 am Post subject: |
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What's the latest realistic battleground race breakdown?
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ribeye
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| C M B wrote: | | What's the latest realistic battleground race breakdown? |
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/
Scroll down a bit and you will see 9 states noted, but you can search any. When you look at a state, they show individual polling, the average of it, and the various weighting measures they use to adjust the polling.
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jodeke
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Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | That's the basic difference between the two parties:
Republicans: I only care about me (and my rich donors and enablers).
Democrats: We are all in this together and we want as many people as possible to do better because then we all do better.
I vs We.
Same reason young Libertarian type men on the left identify with GOP tax policy.
Selfishness vs The Greater Good. |
My 2 cents
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:52 am Post subject: |
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Just an anecdote, not data. But I have seen stories like this all over Twitter for weeks.
| Quote: | Bryce Tache @brycetache
I’m speechless. I just talked with my mom. She’s turning 80 next month. She has never voted for a Democrat. Not once in her life. She watches Fox religiously and is as conservative as they come. And she voted for Biden yesterday.
She’s furious with Trump and his handling of Covid. She hasn’t left her care facility since March. She misses her friends and family. She can’t do any of the things she loves. And she blames Trump. Republicans have no idea how angry seniors are. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:07 am Post subject: |
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Obama in Miami campaigning for Biden. Florida is crucial. It can also be stolen.
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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32
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:18 am Post subject: |
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My 85-year-old mother confided in me a couple of months ago that my sister (a Trump supporter) convinced her to change political parties from Democrat to Republican and vote for Trump in the 2016 election. I was shocked when I heard this and couldn't believe it. Well, now I'm happy to say my Mom has seen the light and is now registered back to Democrat and she voted for Biden. She can't stand Trump.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: |
Poor, poor, $400,000aires, which, is a million in 2.5 years. How many people here, after deductions make $400,000 or more a year. According to the Tax Policy Center, if you make above $250K, you are in the top 5%. What's $400K, top 3ish%? |
Lucky's argument makes no sense. Biden's tax is $400,000 personal income. Has little to do with small business. If anything the owners of small business that can afford to pay themselves more than $400,000 a year in salary, may reinvest in their business more. Because they are disincentivized to give themselves a salary higher than $400,000.
By the way, I would like to know what % of small businesses can afford to give their owner a salary greater than $400,000 a year and then have enough profit on top of that to pay for other expenses (rent, salary and benefits for the workers, office supplies, business insurance, etc). It's gonna be a small %.
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DrDent
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | Lucky_Shot wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | Lucky_Shot wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | Lucky_Shot wrote: | The main reason Biden can easily lose this election is his terrible tax plan.
People making over 400k will be taxed at over 60% in California. That's not including a 10% sales tax... So basically everyone here making that much will be taxed at 70%.
You might consider that rich and they can afford it but they're not billionaires who have no problems. These are people running small businesses competing with corporations.
It will kill california small business... He put small business owners and the business community at large in a tight position. Vote for a jackass who divides this country, Trump or vote for an idiot trying to bankrupt everyone, Biden. |
I hate these misrepresentations of tax. If you are taxed at say 60% for income over $400K, only that income over $400K is taxed at 60%.
Everyone's income is taxed the same (though not everyone can write off a large portion of it). Everyone's (I'll keep it simple and only mention singles) income between ~10K and ~40K is taxed at 12%. EVERYONE. Everyone's income between ~40K and ~85K is taxed at 22%. EVERYONE. And on and on.
Now if you are a small business owner and you make $400K income, I don't know how you will be put out of business. I bet a lot of small businesses wished they had an income of $400k a year.
And, by the way, the federal tax rate alone was between 63% and 94% from 1930-1981, and over 70% in all but five of those years. The GDP from those years was far higher than the years after. From 1933 to 1981 (the FDR Revolution), the GDP was 4.69%. From 1982 - 2019 (the Reagan Revolution), it was 2.72%. I'll make this caveat: They (BEA--Bureau of Economic Analysis) sometimes revise GDP numbers so my numbers, a few years outdated, might to be exact. But they are very close. |
You can try and paint it any color you like. His tax plan hurts businesses across the nation. Everyone in the business community sees it and talks about it
.... Its a really bad plan. Like lose an election bad |
The Trump/GOP tax bailouts for corporations and the rich just made them all much, much richer over the last couple of years and especially during the pandemic -- while everyone else got massively hurt. This is about balancing the scales and helping regular people instead of making the rich richer.
Most people actually do get that. They know income inequality is a major problem and the only way to reverse that is to tax the rich at the rates they used to be taxed at before Republicans gave them all huge amounts of free money. Do you know what they they did with those increased profits? Did they re-invest in expanding their business or in their workers or the economy? No, they cashed out and pocketed the money for themselves. The only way to put that money back into the economy - for the good of everyone, even them - is to make the rich and corporations pay their fair share of taxes. |
People making 400k a year arent billionaires or ceo's of corporations. He is raising taxes on small business across the nation's. It's hurts the back bone of the country.
Think if you had a business and had 15 emploees in LA. If Biden got his way every dollar you made past 400k was taxed at more than 60% and you still had to pay 10% on everything you bought.
Think about how much that would hurt your business and how much less you could reinvest into the business to grow.
You want to raise taxes on the mega rich... fine but that's not what Biden is doing |
Poor, poor, $400,000aires, which, is a million in 2.5 years. How many people here, after deductions make $400,000 or more a year. According to the Tax Policy Center, if you make above $250K, you are in the top 5%. What's $400K, top 3ish%? |
Well no need to poo poo on folks who will be hit by the tax as if they have it easy. Unlike the Orange Menace many of those folks started with peanuts and got to where they were via their own industry and efforts vs daddys pocket. You are kind of poodle peeing on them by doing that.
Rather, embrace the fact that to toss the clown out of office many in that category are willing to pay more. And those taxes are what will bring additional benefits.
As i recall the tax will be incremental and i think upwards of 7%? (I havent checked in awhile). If initial level was 4% thats 4k for first 100k over 400k, that isnt any employees salary. Im sure i have something off there but from a 50k level i think thats about right. |
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ribeye
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2001
Posts: 12632
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:24 am Post subject: |
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| DrDent wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | Lucky_Shot wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | Lucky_Shot wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | Lucky_Shot wrote: | The main reason Biden can easily lose this election is his terrible tax plan.
People making over 400k will be taxed at over 60% in California. That's not including a 10% sales tax... So basically everyone here making that much will be taxed at 70%.
You might consider that rich and they can afford it but they're not billionaires who have no problems. These are people running small businesses competing with corporations.
It will kill california small business... He put small business owners and the business community at large in a tight position. Vote for a jackass who divides this country, Trump or vote for an idiot trying to bankrupt everyone, Biden. |
I hate these misrepresentations of tax. If you are taxed at say 60% for income over $400K, only that income over $400K is taxed at 60%.
Everyone's income is taxed the same (though not everyone can write off a large portion of it). Everyone's (I'll keep it simple and only mention singles) income between ~10K and ~40K is taxed at 12%. EVERYONE. Everyone's income between ~40K and ~85K is taxed at 22%. EVERYONE. And on and on.
Now if you are a small business owner and you make $400K income, I don't know how you will be put out of business. I bet a lot of small businesses wished they had an income of $400k a year.
And, by the way, the federal tax rate alone was between 63% and 94% from 1930-1981, and over 70% in all but five of those years. The GDP from those years was far higher than the years after. From 1933 to 1981 (the FDR Revolution), the GDP was 4.69%. From 1982 - 2019 (the Reagan Revolution), it was 2.72%. I'll make this caveat: They (BEA--Bureau of Economic Analysis) sometimes revise GDP numbers so my numbers, a few years outdated, might to be exact. But they are very close. |
You can try and paint it any color you like. His tax plan hurts businesses across the nation. Everyone in the business community sees it and talks about it
.... Its a really bad plan. Like lose an election bad |
The Trump/GOP tax bailouts for corporations and the rich just made them all much, much richer over the last couple of years and especially during the pandemic -- while everyone else got massively hurt. This is about balancing the scales and helping regular people instead of making the rich richer.
Most people actually do get that. They know income inequality is a major problem and the only way to reverse that is to tax the rich at the rates they used to be taxed at before Republicans gave them all huge amounts of free money. Do you know what they they did with those increased profits? Did they re-invest in expanding their business or in their workers or the economy? No, they cashed out and pocketed the money for themselves. The only way to put that money back into the economy - for the good of everyone, even them - is to make the rich and corporations pay their fair share of taxes. |
People making 400k a year arent billionaires or ceo's of corporations. He is raising taxes on small business across the nation's. It's hurts the back bone of the country.
Think if you had a business and had 15 emploees in LA. If Biden got his way every dollar you made past 400k was taxed at more than 60% and you still had to pay 10% on everything you bought.
Think about how much that would hurt your business and how much less you could reinvest into the business to grow.
You want to raise taxes on the mega rich... fine but that's not what Biden is doing |
Poor, poor, $400,000aires, which, is a million in 2.5 years. How many people here, after deductions make $400,000 or more a year. According to the Tax Policy Center, if you make above $250K, you are in the top 5%. What's $400K, top 3ish%? |
Well no need to poo poo on folks who will be hit by the tax as if they have it easy. Unlike the Orange Menace many of those folks started with peanuts and got to where they were via their own industry and efforts vs daddys pocket. You are kind of poodle peeing on them by doing that.
Rather, embrace the fact that to toss the clown out of office many in that category are willing to pay more. And those taxes are what will bring additional benefits.
As i recall the tax will be incremental and i think upwards of 7%? (I havent checked in awhile). If initial level was 4% thats 4k for first 100k over 400k, that isnt any employees salary. Im sure i have something off there but from a 50k level i think thats about right. |
First, I'm not poo pooing on these people, but on the whining that they will have to pay more for their income about $400K. A lot of people have worked hard their entire lives to get little or nothing.
I will have to disagree with you in part, that people get to where they get entirely on their own. I didn't get up to that level, but where I got, was as much luck and timing as anything. What many discount is that we are mostly who we are because of others. Previous generations have sacrificed to create this country, the environment we have, and our standard of living. One's parents and immediate environment, including our teaches and others in the community, are very important as well. Though few rise anymore above their parents level of income (the middle class stays the middle class), the middle class isn't all that bad.
But there are far too many who don't have the opportunity as do others, and can't even achieve a middle class level.
For them, and to leave this county somewhat close to where it was when we were born--though we are well behind in this--those in the upper five percent, maybe even ten percent, should not whine about paying a little more in taxes. We are handing our children a dying planet, behind in renewal energy technology, and an infrastructure in decline and long over due for an overhaul.
Everyone hates paying taxes. I really hate preparing and paying for mine. But I do like living in California and realize the opportunity I had when young and how subsequent generations don't have nearly the same opportunity.
We have allowed the Ayn Rand thinking to become a country of me's rather than we's. FDR brought this country together during two major crises with leadership, including a 94% tax rate. Trump has torn is apart without and by helping the rich buy one more private island. There was a time this country wanted to give back and provide for posterity. Not so much today.
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DrDent
Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jun 2016
Posts: 12975
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Quote: |
| Quote: | | Poor, poor, $400,000aires, which, is a million in 2.5 years. How many people here, after deductions make $400,000 or more a year. According to the Tax Policy Center, if you make above $250K, you are in the top 5%. What's $400K, top 3ish%? |
Well no need to poo poo on folks who will be hit by the tax as if they have it easy. Unlike the Orange Menace many of those folks started with peanuts and got to where they were via their own industry and efforts vs daddys pocket. You are kind of poodle peeing on them by doing that.
Rather, embrace the fact that to toss the clown out of office many in that category are willing to pay more. And those taxes are what will bring additional benefits.
As i recall the tax will be incremental and i think upwards of 7%? (I havent checked in awhile). If initial level was 4% thats 4k for first 100k over 400k, that isnt any employees salary. Im sure i have something off there but from a 50k level i think thats about right. |
First, I'm not poo pooing on these people, but on the whining that they will have to pay more for their income about $400K. A lot of people have worked hard their entire lives to get little or nothing.
I will have to disagree with you in part, that people get to where they get entirely on their own. I didn't get up to that level, but where I got, was as much luck and timing as anything. What many discount is that we are mostly who we are because of others. Previous generations have sacrificed to create this country, the environment we have, and our standard of living. One's parents and immediate environment, including our teaches and others in the community, are very important as well. Though few rise anymore above their parents level of income (the middle class stays the middle class), the middle class isn't all that bad.
But there are far too many who don't have the opportunity as do others, and can't even achieve a middle class level.
For them, and to leave this county somewhat close to where it was when we were born--though we are well behind in this--those in the upper five percent, maybe even ten percent, should not whine about paying a little more in taxes. We are handing our children a dying planet, behind in renewal energy technology, and an infrastructure in decline and long over due for an overhaul.
We have allowed the Ayn Rand thinking to become a country of me's rather than we's. FDR brought this country together during two major crises with leadership, including a 94% tax rate. Trump has torn is apart without and by helping the rich buy one more private island. There was a time this country wanted to give back and provide for posterity. Not so much today. |
With all due respect, you in fact are poo pooing - saying "poor poor $400,00aires" is a condescending statement, no different than "poor poor less than 100k's, acting as if they live in a third world country than taking advantage of and pursuing the opportunities available" (note I am not stating my position, but rather giving an example of a condesceding response that could be considered callous).
I typically do not go further on message boards when I identify certain traits with folks, it's a waste of both people's energy. I will say this, you then went on and claimed I said people get to where they are at "entirely on their own" - a position solely created by you. I never said that, you took it out of context for whatever reason. I was merely contrasting how many of those folks were not financially given a head start versus someone like Trump.
The bottomline is we cannot just sit back and criticize folks of any income level on the grounds of "oh, you poor, poor..." basis. It fails to recognize what drives people, how they got where they are, and sure, that includes what you are discussing as to what helps (or possibly hinders) folks get to where they are: values provided by mom, dad, teachers, professors, community/church/social activities, and opportunities where they live provides. BUT If someone wants to complain they do not want to pay even more taxes, respect that view point and understand it, versus trivializing it with a "poor, poor" statement.
With that, feel free to debate on that issue by yourself. As an aside, I do not necessarily disagree with some of your more 50,000 foot level statements, although some may be extreme for me. |
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Omar Little
Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90307
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| Lucky_Shot wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | Lucky_Shot wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | Lucky_Shot wrote: | The main reason Biden can easily lose this election is his terrible tax plan.
People making over 400k will be taxed at over 60% in California. That's not including a 10% sales tax... So basically everyone here making that much will be taxed at 70%.
You might consider that rich and they can afford it but they're not billionaires who have no problems. These are people running small businesses competing with corporations.
It will kill california small business... He put small business owners and the business community at large in a tight position. Vote for a jackass who divides this country, Trump or vote for an idiot trying to bankrupt everyone, Biden. |
I hate these misrepresentations of tax. If you are taxed at say 60% for income over $400K, only that income over $400K is taxed at 60%.
Everyone's income is taxed the same (though not everyone can write off a large portion of it). Everyone's (I'll keep it simple and only mention singles) income between ~10K and ~40K is taxed at 12%. EVERYONE. Everyone's income between ~40K and ~85K is taxed at 22%. EVERYONE. And on and on.
Now if you are a small business owner and you make $400K income, I don't know how you will be put out of business. I bet a lot of small businesses wished they had an income of $400k a year.
And, by the way, the federal tax rate alone was between 63% and 94% from 1930-1981, and over 70% in all but five of those years. The GDP from those years was far higher than the years after. From 1933 to 1981 (the FDR Revolution), the GDP was 4.69%. From 1982 - 2019 (the Reagan Revolution), it was 2.72%. I'll make this caveat: They (BEA--Bureau of Economic Analysis) sometimes revise GDP numbers so my numbers, a few years outdated, might to be exact. But they are very close. |
You can try and paint it any color you like. His tax plan hurts businesses across the nation. Everyone in the business community sees it and talks about it
.... Its a really bad plan. Like lose an election bad |
The Trump/GOP tax bailouts for corporations and the rich just made them all much, much richer over the last couple of years and especially during the pandemic -- while everyone else got massively hurt. This is about balancing the scales and helping regular people instead of making the rich richer.
Most people actually do get that. They know income inequality is a major problem and the only way to reverse that is to tax the rich at the rates they used to be taxed at before Republicans gave them all huge amounts of free money. Do you know what they they did with those increased profits? Did they re-invest in expanding their business or in their workers or the economy? No, they cashed out and pocketed the money for themselves. The only way to put that money back into the economy - for the good of everyone, even them - is to make the rich and corporations pay their fair share of taxes. |
People making 400k a year arent billionaires or ceo's of corporations. He is raising taxes on small business across the nation's. It's hurts the back bone of the country.
Think if you had a business and had 15 emploees in LA. If Biden got his way every dollar you made past 400k was taxed at more than 60% and you still had to pay 10% on everything you bought.
Think about how much that would hurt your business and how much less you could reinvest into the business to grow.
You want to raise taxes on the mega rich... fine but that's not what Biden is doing |
Let’s start with your more than 60% figure. With Biden’s top tax bracket at 39.6, I’d really love to know how you got there. I mean, I know, but I’d like to hear how you’re planning to explain that deliberate lie. And then we can talk about why this business killing tax argument always seems to be built on lies like this.
Second, let’s discuss the myth of increased marginal tax rates on business expansion or increased employee benefits. I’m eager to see the evidence that higher rates of tax on profit keep small businesses (who have myriad ways to fully or partially shield expansion costs from taxation in the first place) from spending on growth that will yield more profit, and then we can get to the fact that tax breaks for business owners almost never result in expansion of pay and benefits for employees, and even less likely for employees below the senior level.
If the sole owner or partners in a business who are taking 400k as their personal share of a business’s profits, raising the marginal percentage a few points isn’t going to close the business or stop expansion or cut jobs. And fwiw, if they want to give their employees some extra money but “can’t” because of higher tax rates, that’s a lie because wages are pre tax.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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