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trmiv
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:24 am    Post subject:

Of course after telling the Proud Boys to “stand by” Trump tweeted out trying to recruit “poll watchers” into “Trump’s Army.” Meanwhile Proud Boys online are declaring “Stand By” their new slogan. This is dangerous stuff.
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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:50 am    Post subject:

Joe Biden's twitter feed response this morning:

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1311278369296719872

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:08 am    Post subject:

All the women who Trump sexually assaulted were re-traumatized if they watched the debate last night. Trump is a classic pathological narcissistic abuser. If he did that on a debate stage in front of a global audience, can you imagine what he would do to a woman behind clothes doors? E. Jean Carroll knows. So does his first wife, Ivana. And I suspect many, many more. He is a violent abusive bully and tens of millions of women watching last night had felt that feeling before. And I suspect many men too. His behavior was not the behavior of a strong self-confident man. Those were the behaviors of a loser, a coward, a pathetic weakling who can't ever accomplish anything of substance on his own (see recent NYT articles) and must lie, steal, cheat and bluster his way through every situation. There is nothing admirable about him. Nothing. Not one thing. Zero. Nada. Zilch. He is an embarrassment to himself and our country.

There is only one sane response to last night's debacle. Vote him and every Republican out. Make sure your friends and relatives vote. Give them a ride, offer to help. Donate. Do whatever you personally can do. But do not say, "it doesn't matter." Do not say, "it doesn't make a difference because his cult still loves him." There are more of us. There are more good, decent people who want our country back from this unhinged, unstable pathological liar and terrorist abuser. Fight for it. Fight like your life depends on it -- because it does.
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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:17 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Kaz Weida @kazweida (freelance journalist)

Just spitballing here but I think watching an abusive narcissist gaslighting, shouting, and spewing threats for an hour and a half might have been a teensy bit of a turn off for just about every woman alive.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:27 am    Post subject:

Here's a comment I saw on NPR's Debate Analysis facebook post

Quote:
An issue that hasn’t blown up as much is the candidate’s responses to addiction and I think it’s important we analyze this:
Trump used addiction and alcoholism during COVID to scale the economy (11:04) and “Biden’s America”, then bashed Biden’s son Hunter for drug use and his addiction (47:50).
Joe responded saying, and this is an exact quote: “My son like a lot of people at home had a drug problem. He’s overtaking it. He’s fixed it. He’s worked on it. And I’m proud of him, I’m proud of my son.” (48:07)


Where I gave Joe a 7.5ish for his performance last night immediately after the debate, I would move that to an 8-8.5. It was easy to get lost in the noise but he actually put himself out there and kept his dignity while doing so.

I also missed the bit where he NAILED a Kelly Anne Conway attribution after being put on the spot to name her. That was pretty impressive.

Let's please put to bed, now, the cognitive decline meme. Should've never really been a thing. Now it's really done.
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trmiv
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:39 am    Post subject:

Well I definitely won’t be watching another of the presidential debate, but I can’t wait to watch Kamala Harris eviscerate Mike Pence next week.
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ribeye
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:54 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Again, I want Rachael Maddow to be a moderator.


I love Rachael but she did a poor job of corralling Trump four years ago.

Allowing for the moderator to turn off the mic is a great idea, though Trump would never agree to it.

Maybe Biden just needs to stock up on the lines we give our children, like, sounds like you need a time-out, Donnie, and build on it: If you can't act presidential, you should take a time-out; and finally, well I guess the American people are going to have to give you a time-out at the polls.

Just treat him like the child he acts like.

Also, if this interrupting is repeated next time, look at the the moderator straight in the eye and forcefully say: moderate!

As I watched this and reflect on it, I do think Trump made his points better, sometimes far better, than did Biden. Of course he lied and misrepresented nearly everything, embarrassed the nation and our presidency, and acted worse than a spoiled child, but to independents and people on the fence, I think Trump, at least, held his own.

One point I did not hear from the pundits, but Trump criticized Biden saying that Biden did not want to shut down the country, then criticized him later saying that Biden wants to shut down the country. Which is it, Trump?
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:58 am    Post subject:

Obviously this is only anecdotal.

Quote:
Steve Pierce @steve_pierce

My dad is a lifelong Republican. He lives in TX. He entered last night undecided.

He just texted to say that, even though he agrees w/ Trump on a lot of policies, the debate showed him that he cannot hold his nose & vote for him.

There are a lot of voters like my dad out there


Quote:
A Worried Citizen @ThePubliusUSA

I have heard from several Trump 2016 voters who were on the fence that the debate last night pushed them firmly into @JoeBiden's corner.


Let's hope.
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trmiv
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:06 am    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
Obviously this is only anecdotal.

Quote:
Steve Pierce @steve_pierce

My dad is a lifelong Republican. He lives in TX. He entered last night undecided.

He just texted to say that, even though he agrees w/ Trump on a lot of policies, the debate showed him that he cannot hold his nose & vote for him.

There are a lot of voters like my dad out there


Quote:
A Worried Citizen @ThePubliusUSA

I have heard from several Trump 2016 voters who were on the fence that the debate last night pushed them firmly into @JoeBiden's corner.


Let's hope.



Sorry I don’t trust any of those people. When it comes time actually vote, they will go home to the GOP. They always do.
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ribeye
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:06 am    Post subject:

I was wondering if someone would do this, and someone did:

But still: 128 times [interrupting] in 90 minutes sure seems like a personal record.

Seemed like more, but about one interruption per 45 seconds, for the President of the United States is pathetic.
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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:06 am    Post subject:

Trump's America:

NYT: Trump-Biden Debate Prompts Shock, Despair and, in China, Glee. The chaos of the event has left allies and rivals alike questioning the state of American democracy and the country’s place on the global stage.

Quote:
Many, if not most, European analysts blamed Mr. Trump for the mess.

“The debate was a joke, a low point, a shame for the country,” Markus Feldenkirchen of the German newsmagazine Der Spiegel posted on Twitter. “Roaring, insults, two over-70s who interrupt each other like 5-year-olds — and a moderator who loses all control. The trigger, of course: Trump’s uncouth, undignified behavior.”

John Sawers, a former British diplomat and head of a risk analysis firm, said simply: “My own response is that it makes me despondent about America. The country we have looked to for leadership has descended into an ugly brawl.”

Jeremy Shapiro, a former American diplomat who is now research director of the European Council on Foreign Relations, said that foreigners would probably view the debate “as another sign of the degradation of American democracy,” as some Americans do. The debate will not change foreign opinions of Mr. Trump or Mr. Biden, he said, but underneath the spectacle is something more troubling.

Both allies and rivals “see Trump and the political culture that created him heralding the decline of American democracy and American culture,” Mr. Shapiro said. That judgment, he added, is “only heightened by the coronavirus response, not just American absence in global leadership but the striking incompetence in dealing with it at home.”
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trmiv
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:23 am    Post subject:

Trump’s full response about the Proud Boys. It’s even worse than just “ stand by” when you read the whole thing

Quote:
Proud Boys? Stand back and stand by. But I’ll tell you what. Somebody’s gotta do something about antifa and the left, because this is not a right-wing problem. This is a left-wing problem.


“Somebody’s gotta do something about antifa and the left”

He’s literally telling the Proud Boys to “do something.” That’s a straight call to arms to a white supremicist group on national television.
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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:29 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Jill Filipovic @JillFilipovic

“Will you shut up, man” is the line of the night


Quote:
Jill Filipovic @JillFilipovic

I so feel for Hillary right now because I’m positive she wanted to say that and couldn’t.


Quote:
Hillary Clinton @HillaryClinton

You have no idea.


I'm glad she still has a sense of humor and her sanity.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:31 am    Post subject:

Trump was doing this deliberately, he wants Biden to cancel the other two debates, so he can labeled himself victorious in the debate segment, and Biden runs away from confrontation, blah blah blah. It's a pretty good strategy i may add from Trump's camp. They got nothing to lose, Trump does not care about how he's perceived by rest of the world, he has no dignity. there's an old saying in China "if a scholar find himself in an argument with a unknowledgeable punk, he just can't win that argument no matter how much evidence you have on his side". in this case Biden is the scholar and Trump is that punk.
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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:31 am    Post subject:

trmiv wrote:
Trump’s full response about the Proud Boys. It’s even worse than just “ stand by” when you read the whole thing

Quote:
Proud Boys? Stand back and stand by. But I’ll tell you what. Somebody’s gotta do something about antifa and the left, because this is not a right-wing problem. This is a left-wing problem.


“Somebody’s gotta do something about antifa and the left”

He’s literally telling the Proud Boys to “do something.” That’s a straight call to arms to a white supremicist group on national television.


When the dictionary throws shade and boils it all down:

Quote:
Merriam-Webster @MerriamWebster

'Stand back': to take a few steps backwards

'Stand by': to be or to get ready to act

#Debates2020
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:33 am    Post subject:

trmiv wrote:
Well I definitely won’t be watching another of the presidential debate, but I can’t wait to watch Kamala Harris eviscerate Mike Pence next week.


In 2016, Pence spent 90 minutes denying that Trump ever did or said all the horrible things we all know he did and said.

I'm expecting Harris to do a better job than Kaine.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:33 am    Post subject:

SGV-Laker fan wrote:
Trump was doing this deliberately, he wants Biden to cancel the other two debates, so he can labeled himself victorious in the debate segment, and Biden runs away from confrontation, blah blah blah. It's a pretty good strategy i may add from Trump's camp. They got nothing to lose, Trump does not care about how he's perceived by rest of the world, he has no dignity. there's an old saying in China "if a scholar find himself in an argument with a unknowledgeable punk, he just can't win that argument no matter how much evidence you have on his side". in this case Biden is the scholar and Trump is that punk.


Biden's camp already said that he will absolutely participate in the final two debates as planned.
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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:34 am    Post subject:

Biden is giving a live speech in Ohio right now. Live on MSNBC and CNN.

(already over - I only caught the end)


Last edited by ChefLinda on Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:40 am    Post subject:

Dictionary on a roll (from last night):

Quote:
Merriam-Webster @MerriamWebster

'Logorrhea': excessive and often incoherent talkativeness or wordiness
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:52 am    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
jodeke wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
Biden should cancel participation in remaining debates. This was a waste of time.


I don't think he should. IMO that would infer weakness. You have to stand up to a bully.


Trump's strategy was to create chaos, not to debate. Under those circumstances you hand him what he wants if you let him repeat that performance. Denying Trump that platform is taking control, not weakness.


I disagree completely. The message sent by Biden refusing to do anymore debates is that he is unwilling to stand up to Trump and therefore unable to standup for America as its President.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:53 am    Post subject:

This has 72K likes and 13K retweets:

Quote:
Clare Malone @ClareMalone

Chris Wallace now feels the pain of women in meetings.


Claire McCaskill and several other women panelists on MSNBC repeated a variation of this last night and this morning.

(I know people don't take my word for it because I'm only one woman sharing her opinion -- but believe me, it's not just me who reacted strongly last night.)
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:54 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
jodeke wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
Biden should cancel participation in remaining debates. This was a waste of time.


I don't think he should. IMO that would infer weakness. You have to stand up to a bully.


Trump's strategy was to create chaos, not to debate. Under those circumstances you hand him what he wants if you let him repeat that performance. Denying Trump that platform is taking control, not weakness.


I disagree completely. The message sent by Biden refusing to do anymore debates is that he is unwilling to stand up to Trump and therefore unable to standup for America as its President.


There are legit arguments both pro and con, but Biden already said he's doing them so my point is moot. But I won't be watching.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:02 am    Post subject:

Wilt wrote:
trmiv wrote:
Well I definitely won’t be watching another of the presidential debate, but I can’t wait to watch Kamala Harris eviscerate Mike Pence next week.


In 2016, Pence spent 90 minutes denying that Trump ever did or said all the horrible things we all know he did and said.

I'm expecting Harris to do a better job than Kaine.


“That’s simply not true” shaking head with a stupid smile. Man I wanted to wring his neck.

Kamala isn’t going to let that nonsense fly.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:15 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Kyle Griffin @kylegriffin1

Joe Biden's campaign broke its single-hour fundraising record as the debate wrapped up, pulling in $3.8 million.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:19 am    Post subject:

I'll wait for the opinion polls, but in my opinion this debate did little to move the needle. Biden could have delivered a knockout punch or two, but didn't. In fact, the most embarrassing moments for Trump (other than the self-inflicted wounds) were delivered by Chris Wallace.

In terms of the women's vote, I'm not a woman, but I'm skeptical that the debate did anything to change or deliver that demographic into Biden's camp. Trump's unhinged behavior towards Hillary was far worse in 2016; the fact that he tried to physically intimidate her on stage should have turned the election on its heels. There was plenty of outrage on social media afterward, and yet it didn't move the needle in terms of the polls.

I"m not going being a total downer as there is a silver lining. The debates won't change the polls, and in fact if Biden doesn't deliver a knockout punch, the debates will help him. The needle in the opinion of Trump will not change. What might change is that Trump's outlandish behavior might motivate the more sedentary voters into casting a ballot.


Last edited by angrypuppy on Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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