Joined: 12 Feb 2002 Posts: 3829 Location: South Orange County
Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:53 pm Post subject:
Wilt wrote:
Surfitall wrote:
Wilt wrote:
Surfitall wrote:
Wilt wrote:
Quote:
Everything has to go right in this election.
A major part of "everything going right in this election" is refusing to spread GOP propaganda.
Biden is an old guy. His voters understand it and they're okay with it. But that's it, he's older and nothing about him being old will impact his performance as president. The only people constantly bringing it up - cynically, of course - are Trumpers and extreme BernieBros. And when you claim to be a reasonable progressive and then find yourself agreeing with Trumpers, that should tell you something.
What should it tell me?
You're helping their cause, though you try to present it as innocently as you can.
But if his voters understand it and are ok with it, why would me expressing my nervousness about it change their vote? If they are ok with it, then there is nothing to worry about come Election Day. His voters will fall in line and vote for him no matter what. I’m an anybody but Trump voter...if everyone is like me, then we are in good shape. If that’s true, that puts me at ease.
On the other hand, if there is a very real danger that voters will change their vote because of those perceptions, then you can understand why it makes me nervous. It’s also why I included the caveat that a vote for Trump is far worse no matter what and explained why. (Just in case an undecided voter wanders onto a Lakers forum, into a thread about politics populated almost entirely by Democrats, and sees my note and then thinks, “Surf is right! I can’t vote for Biden!”.
I remember the 80’s, when Reagan famously said that he wouldn’t make his opponents youth and inexperience an issue in the campaign and it broke everyone in the crowd up, including Mondale. People were concerned about his age and mental acuity, and that moment put those concerns to rest (despite the fact that it was a legitimate concern). I wish for Biden to have a moment like that to put everyone at ease.
You said that this has to be a blowout, that there's no margin for error. So if you really believe that, then spreading GOP propaganda is not productive. We need every potential vote we can get, and that includes BernieBros, Republicans, independents, who might fall for this dementia nonsense if it keeps getting repeated. Yes, Biden's voters, those who supported him in the primary and those support him now, have no problem with his age. But I want his support to increase to historic levels, and that includes people who are looking for any reason not to turn out and vote.
So again, spreading GOP propaganda - disguised as your "nervousness" - is not helpful.
So are we also spreading left wing propaganda when we talk about Trump's cognitive decline?
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52696 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:53 pm Post subject:
Omar Little wrote:
ribeye wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Dems: We'd like cops to stop killing minorities.
Reps: Dems hate police.
D's: Women should have the right to choose.
R's: Dems want to kill babies.
D's: We need reasonable immigration policies.
R's: Dems want open borders.
D's: We kneel in protest of inequality.
R's: Dems hate the flag, soldiers and America.
D's: We should wear masks to protect others.
R's: Dems want to take away your freedom.
D's: We should have background checks.
R's: Dems want to take your guns.
D's: Feds should not be policing in cities.
R's: Dems encourage rioting.
D's: People should have a living wage.
R's: Dems want to give everyone free stuff.
D's: We want religious freedom for everyone.
R's: Dems want Sharia Law.
D's: Taxes should be used for the benefit of everyone.
R's: Dems want socialism.
D's: We want people to be able to vote safely during a pandemic.
R's: Dems want to rig the election.
D's: People need more unemployment assistance.
R's: Dems blocked unemployment assistance.
D's: Listen, we just want to find ways to help people.
R's: Listen, we just want to find ways to misrepresent everything you say in order to scare people into voting for us, even though we offer zero solutions.
Freeking Bingo! Well done. Brilliant.
On a scale of one of five this is a
It’s from a friend. Can’t claim the work as mine.
Whoever wrote it, it's perfect. I'm sharing this elsewhere. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52696 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:02 pm Post subject:
Surfitall wrote:
Wilt wrote:
Surfitall wrote:
Wilt wrote:
Surfitall wrote:
Wilt wrote:
Quote:
Everything has to go right in this election.
A major part of "everything going right in this election" is refusing to spread GOP propaganda.
Biden is an old guy. His voters understand it and they're okay with it. But that's it, he's older and nothing about him being old will impact his performance as president. The only people constantly bringing it up - cynically, of course - are Trumpers and extreme BernieBros. And when you claim to be a reasonable progressive and then find yourself agreeing with Trumpers, that should tell you something.
What should it tell me?
You're helping their cause, though you try to present it as innocently as you can.
But if his voters understand it and are ok with it, why would me expressing my nervousness about it change their vote? If they are ok with it, then there is nothing to worry about come Election Day. His voters will fall in line and vote for him no matter what. I’m an anybody but Trump voter...if everyone is like me, then we are in good shape. If that’s true, that puts me at ease.
On the other hand, if there is a very real danger that voters will change their vote because of those perceptions, then you can understand why it makes me nervous. It’s also why I included the caveat that a vote for Trump is far worse no matter what and explained why. (Just in case an undecided voter wanders onto a Lakers forum, into a thread about politics populated almost entirely by Democrats, and sees my note and then thinks, “Surf is right! I can’t vote for Biden!”.
I remember the 80’s, when Reagan famously said that he wouldn’t make his opponents youth and inexperience an issue in the campaign and it broke everyone in the crowd up, including Mondale. People were concerned about his age and mental acuity, and that moment put those concerns to rest (despite the fact that it was a legitimate concern). I wish for Biden to have a moment like that to put everyone at ease.
You said that this has to be a blowout, that there's no margin for error. So if you really believe that, then spreading GOP propaganda is not productive. We need every potential vote we can get, and that includes BernieBros, Republicans, independents, who might fall for this dementia nonsense if it keeps getting repeated. Yes, Biden's voters, those who supported him in the primary and those support him now, have no problem with his age. But I want his support to increase to historic levels, and that includes people who are looking for any reason not to turn out and vote.
So again, spreading GOP propaganda - disguised as your "nervousness" - is not helpful.
So are we also spreading left wing propaganda when we talk about Trump's cognitive decline?
So do you not understand nuance, or are just being disingenuous?
Sincere question. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
I complained about Biden for months on end. Does no one remember that?
But the primary is over and now it's a binary choice. Regurgitating Biden's flaws serves no purpose because the alternative is Trump who is a billion times worse.
This was not a thread where everyone had the same opinion during the primary. We argued with each other plenty over candidates and policy (improving the ACA vs Medicare for all).
But I guess it's easier to just think "everyone in the thread has the same view and doesn't tolerate dissent."
FWIW, that the United States ISN'T an anti Trump echo chamber is the bigger problem.
One person's actual cognitive decline is a threat to the survival of our Democracy and the other person's isn't.
It's amazing if you watch Biden talk at length and without notes on a wide range of complex issues, delving deep into detail and nuance, and come away with the idea that because he occasionally loses his place, misspeaks, stutters, or loses a train of thought amidst a bunch of them, that somehow it is a big problem.
Somebody posted a zoom video they took of me talking about a particular topic the other day. I was shocked at how many times I hesitated while looking for the precise word I wanted. That's often what Biden is doing (Obama used to do it too). And it's completely different than being a babbling fool making (bleep) up and spewing word salad nonsense and lies on the way to dozens of incomplete sentences the way Trump does in virtually EVERY SINGLE PUBLIC APPEARANCE.
Good lord.
Post it CL.
Yeah, do it. I promise I won't laugh (too loud).
I was twice on the news and both times I choked. The second, I was tying to say the word concessionaire, and started it two or three times, and failing, finally saying, you know, the guy who sells hot dogs. EVERYBODY I knew saw it. _________________ "A metronome keeps time by using a Ringo"
Joined: 12 Feb 2002 Posts: 3829 Location: South Orange County
Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 2:00 pm Post subject:
LarryCoon wrote:
angrypuppy wrote:
To place my cards on the table, I've been an Elizabeth Warren fan for years. But I'd vote for anyone the Dems nominate, without regard to age or health.
I absolutely hate Donald Trump. He's a danger to our democracy.
I agree with your point about it having become a rather....one-sided discussion, but I think the reasons for that are important -- and those reasons also address your main point today.
As I've said many times in this thread, I really welcome an objective, informed discussion between the left & right that doesn't utilize rhetorical BS to make a point. Unfortunately, at least for the ones on the right who come here to post, exactly one-half of that dialog has been missing. (That's not to say that those of us on the left have been pure & perfect; I'm saying it's been the case here that those on the right can't survive without it.)
One instance of that rhetorical BS has been "just-the-sameism." It's not a black-or-white situation -- cognitive acuity is a gradient. Hell, I'm not as sharp as I was ten years ago either, unfortunately -- life sucks. But any comparison between the nature and magnitude of Biden's normal, age-related cognitive changes, and Trump's (in my opinion, objectively clear) cognitive changes is simply a false comparison.
And of course, the rhetorical BS sweeps those differences under the rug, or even better, points at Biden hoping people will engage their confirmation bias and agree, while also ignoring Trump's huge problems (that's one reason I thought the Lincoln Project video was well done where they cut from people like Trump Jr. complaining about it on Fox to instances of Trump demonstrating exactly what he was complaining about).
So the question is, how do we objectively discuss age-related cognitive changes without falling into the trap of overlooking the difference in magnitude and falling into the trap of just-the-sameism?
Since I'm the one that started this...here is what I posted as soon as people started complaining:
I believe Trump is a threat to our republic and makes the world a much more dangerous place. I believe Trump also is clearly declining mentally, and that he is also a malignant narcissist, which is far more dangerous. Voting him out is literally going to be a life or death decision for many people thanks to his gross incompetence and mental illness. I’m just expressing my own nervousness that Biden’s apparent decline could hurt our chances in November. 90 days is still a long time. The die has been cast, there is no other option, he has my vote, losing is not an option...but damn I’m nervous. Everything has to go right in this election. Between Trump sabotaging the post office, to closing polling places in Democrat areas, to Russian interference, to the conservative Supreme Court, to who knows what other dirty tricks will unfold in this election, there is no margin for error here. This HAS to be a blowout.
I mean, how much more can I caveat this so everyone is clear that I'm saying they aren't the same, that one poses an existential threat, the other makes me nervous because it may hurt his chance to get elected. And even after this caveat here is where the discussion went: Accusations of spreading GOP propaganda, that the time to bring this up in this forum has passed, that I'm disguising my true intent by bringing it up at all, that it's straight out of "RUSSIAN PLAYBOOK" (her caps, not mine), that it's "concern trolling", that I'm saying, "both men have the same issue" when I've tried very clearly to not say that.
How would you have suggested I frame this differently so this doesn't become a one sided discussion?
To place my cards on the table, I've been an Elizabeth Warren fan for years. But I'd vote for anyone the Dems nominate, without regard to age or health.
I absolutely hate Donald Trump. He's a danger to our democracy.
I agree with your point about it having become a rather....one-sided discussion, but I think the reasons for that are important -- and those reasons also address your main point today.
As I've said many times in this thread, I really welcome an objective, informed discussion between the left & right that doesn't utilize rhetorical BS to make a point. Unfortunately, at least for the ones on the right who come here to post, exactly one-half of that dialog has been missing. (That's not to say that those of us on the left have been pure & perfect; I'm saying it's been the case here that those on the right can't survive without it.)
One instance of that rhetorical BS has been "just-the-sameism." It's not a black-or-white situation -- cognitive acuity is a gradient. Hell, I'm not as sharp as I was ten years ago either, unfortunately -- life sucks. But any comparison between the nature and magnitude of Biden's normal, age-related cognitive changes, and Trump's (in my opinion, objectively clear) cognitive changes is simply a false comparison.
And of course, the rhetorical BS sweeps those differences under the rug, or even better, points at Biden hoping people will engage their confirmation bias and agree, while also ignoring Trump's huge problems (that's one reason I thought the Lincoln Project video was well done where they cut from people like Trump Jr. complaining about it on Fox to instances of Trump demonstrating exactly what he was complaining about).
So the question is, how do we objectively discuss age-related cognitive changes without falling into the trap of overlooking the difference in magnitude and falling into the trap of just-the-sameism?
Since I'm the one that started this...here is what I posted as soon as people started complaining:
I believe Trump is a threat to our republic and makes the world a much more dangerous place. I believe Trump also is clearly declining mentally, and that he is also a malignant narcissist, which is far more dangerous. Voting him out is literally going to be a life or death decision for many people thanks to his gross incompetence and mental illness. I’m just expressing my own nervousness that Biden’s apparent decline could hurt our chances in November. 90 days is still a long time. The die has been cast, there is no other option, he has my vote, losing is not an option...but damn I’m nervous. Everything has to go right in this election. Between Trump sabotaging the post office, to closing polling places in Democrat areas, to Russian interference, to the conservative Supreme Court, to who knows what other dirty tricks will unfold in this election, there is no margin for error here. This HAS to be a blowout.
I mean, how much more can I caveat this so everyone is clear that I'm saying they aren't the same, that one poses an existential threat, the other makes me nervous because it may hurt his chance to get elected. And even after this caveat here is where the discussion went: Accusations of spreading GOP propaganda, that the time to bring this up in this forum has passed, that I'm disguising my true intent by bringing it up at all, that it's straight out of "RUSSIAN PLAYBOOK" (her caps, not mine), that it's "concern trolling", that I'm saying, "both men have the same issue" when I've tried very clearly to not say that.
How would you have suggested I frame this differently so this doesn't become a one sided discussion?
Do you think Biden is mentally unfit to be president? Like if he were running against incumbent Marco Rubio would you trust Rubio over Biden because you see Biden's cognition declining to a concerning degree? _________________ Under New Management
Joined: 12 Feb 2002 Posts: 3829 Location: South Orange County
Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 2:40 pm Post subject:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Surfitall wrote:
LarryCoon wrote:
angrypuppy wrote:
To place my cards on the table, I've been an Elizabeth Warren fan for years. But I'd vote for anyone the Dems nominate, without regard to age or health.
I absolutely hate Donald Trump. He's a danger to our democracy.
I agree with your point about it having become a rather....one-sided discussion, but I think the reasons for that are important -- and those reasons also address your main point today.
As I've said many times in this thread, I really welcome an objective, informed discussion between the left & right that doesn't utilize rhetorical BS to make a point. Unfortunately, at least for the ones on the right who come here to post, exactly one-half of that dialog has been missing. (That's not to say that those of us on the left have been pure & perfect; I'm saying it's been the case here that those on the right can't survive without it.)
One instance of that rhetorical BS has been "just-the-sameism." It's not a black-or-white situation -- cognitive acuity is a gradient. Hell, I'm not as sharp as I was ten years ago either, unfortunately -- life sucks. But any comparison between the nature and magnitude of Biden's normal, age-related cognitive changes, and Trump's (in my opinion, objectively clear) cognitive changes is simply a false comparison.
And of course, the rhetorical BS sweeps those differences under the rug, or even better, points at Biden hoping people will engage their confirmation bias and agree, while also ignoring Trump's huge problems (that's one reason I thought the Lincoln Project video was well done where they cut from people like Trump Jr. complaining about it on Fox to instances of Trump demonstrating exactly what he was complaining about).
So the question is, how do we objectively discuss age-related cognitive changes without falling into the trap of overlooking the difference in magnitude and falling into the trap of just-the-sameism?
Since I'm the one that started this...here is what I posted as soon as people started complaining:
I believe Trump is a threat to our republic and makes the world a much more dangerous place. I believe Trump also is clearly declining mentally, and that he is also a malignant narcissist, which is far more dangerous. Voting him out is literally going to be a life or death decision for many people thanks to his gross incompetence and mental illness. I’m just expressing my own nervousness that Biden’s apparent decline could hurt our chances in November. 90 days is still a long time. The die has been cast, there is no other option, he has my vote, losing is not an option...but damn I’m nervous. Everything has to go right in this election. Between Trump sabotaging the post office, to closing polling places in Democrat areas, to Russian interference, to the conservative Supreme Court, to who knows what other dirty tricks will unfold in this election, there is no margin for error here. This HAS to be a blowout.
I mean, how much more can I caveat this so everyone is clear that I'm saying they aren't the same, that one poses an existential threat, the other makes me nervous because it may hurt his chance to get elected. And even after this caveat here is where the discussion went: Accusations of spreading GOP propaganda, that the time to bring this up in this forum has passed, that I'm disguising my true intent by bringing it up at all, that it's straight out of "RUSSIAN PLAYBOOK" (her caps, not mine), that it's "concern trolling", that I'm saying, "both men have the same issue" when I've tried very clearly to not say that.
How would you have suggested I frame this differently so this doesn't become a one sided discussion?
Do you think Biden is mentally unfit to be president? Like if he were running against incumbent Marco Rubio would you trust Rubio over Biden because you see Biden's cognition declining to a concerning degree?
No, I don't have any evidence that tells me he is mentally unfit to be President. I wouldn't vote for Marco Rubio, or any Republican over Biden right now. Republicans are complicit in propping up Trump...they all need to go. They also stand in the way of just about every policy that I believe is good for America...so there's that too. Since Biden is the Democratic candidate for President, he's who I'm voting for.
To place my cards on the table, I've been an Elizabeth Warren fan for years. But I'd vote for anyone the Dems nominate, without regard to age or health.
I absolutely hate Donald Trump. He's a danger to our democracy.
I agree with your point about it having become a rather....one-sided discussion, but I think the reasons for that are important -- and those reasons also address your main point today.
As I've said many times in this thread, I really welcome an objective, informed discussion between the left & right that doesn't utilize rhetorical BS to make a point. Unfortunately, at least for the ones on the right who come here to post, exactly one-half of that dialog has been missing. (That's not to say that those of us on the left have been pure & perfect; I'm saying it's been the case here that those on the right can't survive without it.)
One instance of that rhetorical BS has been "just-the-sameism." It's not a black-or-white situation -- cognitive acuity is a gradient. Hell, I'm not as sharp as I was ten years ago either, unfortunately -- life sucks. But any comparison between the nature and magnitude of Biden's normal, age-related cognitive changes, and Trump's (in my opinion, objectively clear) cognitive changes is simply a false comparison.
And of course, the rhetorical BS sweeps those differences under the rug, or even better, points at Biden hoping people will engage their confirmation bias and agree, while also ignoring Trump's huge problems (that's one reason I thought the Lincoln Project video was well done where they cut from people like Trump Jr. complaining about it on Fox to instances of Trump demonstrating exactly what he was complaining about).
So the question is, how do we objectively discuss age-related cognitive changes without falling into the trap of overlooking the difference in magnitude and falling into the trap of just-the-sameism?
Since I'm the one that started this...here is what I posted as soon as people started complaining:
I believe Trump is a threat to our republic and makes the world a much more dangerous place. I believe Trump also is clearly declining mentally, and that he is also a malignant narcissist, which is far more dangerous. Voting him out is literally going to be a life or death decision for many people thanks to his gross incompetence and mental illness. I’m just expressing my own nervousness that Biden’s apparent decline could hurt our chances in November. 90 days is still a long time. The die has been cast, there is no other option, he has my vote, losing is not an option...but damn I’m nervous. Everything has to go right in this election. Between Trump sabotaging the post office, to closing polling places in Democrat areas, to Russian interference, to the conservative Supreme Court, to who knows what other dirty tricks will unfold in this election, there is no margin for error here. This HAS to be a blowout.
I mean, how much more can I caveat this so everyone is clear that I'm saying they aren't the same, that one poses an existential threat, the other makes me nervous because it may hurt his chance to get elected. And even after this caveat here is where the discussion went: Accusations of spreading GOP propaganda, that the time to bring this up in this forum has passed, that I'm disguising my true intent by bringing it up at all, that it's straight out of "RUSSIAN PLAYBOOK" (her caps, not mine), that it's "concern trolling", that I'm saying, "both men have the same issue" when I've tried very clearly to not say that.
How would you have suggested I frame this differently so this doesn't become a one sided discussion?
Do you think Biden is mentally unfit to be president? Like if he were running against incumbent Marco Rubio would you trust Rubio over Biden because you see Biden's cognition declining to a concerning degree?
No, I don't have any evidence that tells me he is mentally unfit to be President. I wouldn't vote for Marco Rubio, or any Republican over Biden right now. Republicans are complicit in propping up Trump...they all need to go. They also stand in the way of just about every policy that I believe is good for America...so there's that too. Since Biden is the Democratic candidate for President, he's who I'm voting for.
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52696 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 2:49 pm Post subject:
Surfitall wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
So again, spreading GOP propaganda - disguised as your "nervousness" - is not helpful.
Quote:
So are we also spreading left wing propaganda when we talk about Trump's cognitive decline?
Quote:
So do you not understand nuance, or are just being disingenuous?
Sincere question.
I understand nuance, and I'm not being disingenuous. You're choosing to answer my question with a question. It seems you don't want to answer.
That was my answer (and for the record, you applying words to me that were said by someone else).
Biden has no cognitive issues. He stammers (he stuttered as a youth - guess he had cognitive issues back then, eh?), he searches for words in the moment, he has moments were he forgets something. These are all things every single one of us does everyday (and one's lying if one claims they don't) regardless of age.
Is Biden long in the tooth? Sure, but that doesn't mean the things that we all do are indicative of cognitive issues. Any claims that he does are misrepresentative are purely to muddy the waters, hence the use of the word propaganda.
Trump, on the other hand, clearly has cognitive issues. He can't even construct or finish a sentence without rambling. The majority of what he says is a mishmash stream of consciousness that more often than not makes very little sense. He can't grasp simple concepts. He brags about being able to do menial mental tasks as if it is some wonderment of intelligence. There is no need to propagandize Trumps lack of mental ability. He demonstrates it everyday.
So when one compares Biden to Trump in regards to mental capacity, clearly either one has no concept of degree, or one is being intellectually dishonest.
So to say that discussing _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67904 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:01 pm Post subject:
A presidential debate would settle the cognition issue. I seriously doubt there's going to be a debate. Trump would be rumblin bumblin stumblin, unable to complete a coherent sentence. I don't think his advisors want him to debate. His narcissism may be his undoing. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Joined: 12 Feb 2002 Posts: 3829 Location: South Orange County
Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:01 pm Post subject:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Surfitall wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
So again, spreading GOP propaganda - disguised as your "nervousness" - is not helpful.
Quote:
So are we also spreading left wing propaganda when we talk about Trump's cognitive decline?
Quote:
So do you not understand nuance, or are just being disingenuous?
Sincere question.
I understand nuance, and I'm not being disingenuous. You're choosing to answer my question with a question. It seems you don't want to answer.
That was my answer (and for the record, you applying words to me that were said by someone else).
Biden has no cognitive issues. He stammers (he stuttered as a youth - guess he had cognitive issues back then, eh?), he searches for words in the moment, he has moments were he forgets something. These are all things every single one of us does everyday (and one's lying if one claims they don't) regardless of age.
Is Biden long in the tooth? Sure, but that doesn't mean the things that we all do are indicative of cognitive issues. Any claims that he does are misrepresentative are purely to muddy the waters, hence the use of the word propaganda.
Trump, on the other hand, clearly has cognitive issues. He can't even construct or finish a sentence without rambling. The majority of what he says is a mishmash stream of consciousness that more often than not makes very little sense. He can't grasp simple concepts. He brags about being able to do menial mental tasks as if it is some wonderment of intelligence. There is no need to propagandize Trumps lack of mental ability. He demonstrates it everyday.
So when one compares Biden to Trump in regards to mental capacity, clearly either one has no concept of degree, or one is being intellectually dishonest.
So to say that discussing
Yeah, the format messed up when I tried to shorten the thread and I did my best to fix it, sorry about the misattribution. I think you and others are in denial about his current state, but I think you are being logically consistent by having that point of view. I obviously think he's a little worse off than that, I do think he's gotten worse since the debates although I'd love to be wrong about that...not bad enough that he's unfit for office, but bad enough that it seems to me to be a legitimate topic for discussion and not the spreading of propaganda.
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52696 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:02 pm Post subject:
ChefLinda wrote:
I complained about Biden for months on end. Does no one remember that?
But the primary is over and now it's a binary choice. Regurgitating Biden's flaws serves no purpose because the alternative is Trump who is a billion times worse.
This was not a thread where everyone had the same opinion during the primary. We argued with each other plenty over candidates and policy (improving the ACA vs Medicare for all).
But I guess it's easier to just think "everyone in the thread has the same view and doesn't tolerate dissent."
But it's not true.
That's only the position of people who feel they should be able to say whatever they wish without rebuttal.
That's not how it works here, or anywhere else. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Joined: 12 Feb 2002 Posts: 3829 Location: South Orange County
Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:04 pm Post subject:
jodeke wrote:
A presidential debate would settle the cognition issue. I seriously doubt there's going to be a debate. Trump would be rumblin bumblin stumblin, unable to complete a coherent sentence. I don't think his advisors want him to debate. His narcissism may be his undoing.
I agree, a debate would settle it. More off the cuff interviews with Biden could settle it as well...I think Trump wants those ratings. "The highest rated debates of all time." I can see it already.
Joined: 12 Feb 2002 Posts: 3829 Location: South Orange County
Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:08 pm Post subject:
Wilt wrote:
Surfitall wrote:
No, I don't have any evidence that tells me he is mentally unfit to be President.
So what does this mean?
Quote:
Ughhhh. Biden is looking bad.
It means he looks bad...it wasn't a good look for him. Bad does not equal mentally unfit to hold the office. In the context of that video, it meant bad as in, "I'm nervous he's going to lose votes if this is how he performs in public."
Joe Biden is 77 going on 78. My dad turned 76 this year. I think my dad is holding up damn well for a man his age, but Biden is holding up really well for a man his age. Of course they've both declined some over the past 10-15 years - that's natural; that's aging. And yes, my father would make a better president than Trump and he has zero policy experience. _________________ Under New Management
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52696 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:13 pm Post subject:
Surfitall wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Surfitall wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
So again, spreading GOP propaganda - disguised as your "nervousness" - is not helpful.
Quote:
So are we also spreading left wing propaganda when we talk about Trump's cognitive decline?
Quote:
So do you not understand nuance, or are just being disingenuous?
Sincere question.
I understand nuance, and I'm not being disingenuous. You're choosing to answer my question with a question. It seems you don't want to answer.
That was my answer (and for the record, you applying words to me that were said by someone else).
Biden has no cognitive issues. He stammers (he stuttered as a youth - guess he had cognitive issues back then, eh?), he searches for words in the moment, he has moments were he forgets something. These are all things every single one of us does everyday (and one's lying if one claims they don't) regardless of age.
Is Biden long in the tooth? Sure, but that doesn't mean the things that we all do are indicative of cognitive issues. Any claims that he does are misrepresentative are purely to muddy the waters, hence the use of the word propaganda.
Trump, on the other hand, clearly has cognitive issues. He can't even construct or finish a sentence without rambling. The majority of what he says is a mishmash stream of consciousness that more often than not makes very little sense. He can't grasp simple concepts. He brags about being able to do menial mental tasks as if it is some wonderment of intelligence. There is no need to propagandize Trumps lack of mental ability. He demonstrates it everyday.
So when one compares Biden to Trump in regards to mental capacity, clearly either one has no concept of degree, or one is being intellectually dishonest.
So to say that discussing
Yeah, the format messed up when I tried to shorten the thread and I did my best to fix it, sorry about the misattribution. I think you and others are in denial about his current state, but I think you are being logically consistent by having that point of view. I obviously think he's a little worse off than that, I do think he's gotten worse since the debates although I'd love to be wrong about that...not bad enough that he's unfit for office, but bad enough that it seems to me to be a legitimate topic for discussion and not the spreading of propaganda.
If we are going to discuss every time someone stumbles when speaking publicly, we aren't going to have time to discuss anything else. Even gifted orators like Obama are guilty of it. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52696 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:16 pm Post subject:
Surfitall wrote:
jodeke wrote:
A presidential debate would settle the cognition issue. I seriously doubt there's going to be a debate. Trump would be rumblin bumblin stumblin, unable to complete a coherent sentence. I don't think his advisors want him to debate. His narcissism may be his undoing.
I agree, a debate would settle it. More off the cuff interviews with Biden could settle it as well...I think Trump wants those ratings. "The highest rated debates of all time." I can see it already.
No doubt. He would view not debating as a sign of weakness, and we know how fearful he is of that. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Here's a recent Daily Show interview. He sounds completely normal. There is no hint of anything off. He's is speaking off the cuff, has cogent answers for everything, and even addresses his stutter and gaffs in a charming self-effacing way. People really need to stop letting themselves be unduly influenced by snippets or edited videos designed to make him look bad.
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