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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:46 pm    Post subject:

Will Sanders supporters remain loyal if he compromises on key issues that animate his base?
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:11 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Will Sanders supporters remain loyal if he compromises on key issues that animate his base?

I have a feeling the Democrats have already chosen their candidate (Joe Biden). I hope Berniebros will get behind whoever the nominee if it's not him. As I said I don't think it'll be Sanders, I think it'll be Biden.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:50 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
kikanga wrote:
The middle class will have to help pay for M4A. But the key is they'll be paying less than they do now.

It's okay to criticize Warren for backing off a hardline stance for immediate implementation.

Just like it's okay to note that Bernie has accomplished very little compared to his time in the Senate because he's taken so many hardline stances without building the necessary coalition.


https://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/senate-passes-sanders-mccain-veterans-bill

So I guess he can compromise.


Tough to be impressed with so little when he's been in Congress for decades.

"If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together".

At least he's committed to the Democratic party 4 of the last 6 years. Baby steps. But it's progress.

Shame on me, I'd rather not dwell on his flaws. I'd take him over Biden. Even though he's failed to describe a clear pathway to implementing his policy besides REVOLUTION!!!!
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:16 pm    Post subject:

https://twitter.com/SpeakerPelosi/status/1218702672477544448?s=09
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:07 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
kikanga wrote:
The middle class will have to help pay for M4A. But the key is they'll be paying less than they do now.

It's okay to criticize Warren for backing off a hardline stance for immediate implementation.

Just like it's okay to note that Bernie has accomplished very little compared to his time in the Senate because he's taken so many hardline stances without building the necessary coalition.


https://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/senate-passes-sanders-mccain-veterans-bill

So I guess he can compromise.


Tough to be impressed with so little when he's been in Congress for decades.

"If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together".

At least he's committed to the Democratic party 4 of the last 6 years. Baby steps. But it's progress.

Shame on me, I'd rather not dwell on his flaws. I'd take him over Biden. Even though he's failed to describe a clear pathway to implementing his policy besides REVOLUTION!!!!


This is a fair article from Politifact on Sanders as the roll call amendment king from 1995 to 2007.

https://tinyurl.com/yfqtjtmy
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:09 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
kikanga wrote:
The middle class will have to help pay for M4A. But the key is they'll be paying less than they do now.

It's okay to criticize Warren for backing off a hardline stance for immediate implementation.

Just like it's okay to note that Bernie has accomplished very little compared to his time in the Senate because he's taken so many hardline stances without building the necessary coalition.


Not necessarily. I pay $600 per year for excellent insurance for my family. I highly doubt M4A will beat that, which is why I support Public Option over M4A


How in the world are you getting such inexpensive insurance? You realize that is not the norm, right?
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:03 am    Post subject:

Surfitall wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
kikanga wrote:
The middle class will have to help pay for M4A. But the key is they'll be paying less than they do now.

It's okay to criticize Warren for backing off a hardline stance for immediate implementation.

Just like it's okay to note that Bernie has accomplished very little compared to his time in the Senate because he's taken so many hardline stances without building the necessary coalition.


Not necessarily. I pay $600 per year for excellent insurance for my family. I highly doubt M4A will beat that, which is why I support Public Option over M4A


How in the world are you getting such inexpensive insurance? You realize that is not the norm, right?


No kidding. I'm paying five times that for excellent insurance for my family.
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vanexelent
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:26 am    Post subject:

LarryCoon wrote:
Surfitall wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
kikanga wrote:
The middle class will have to help pay for M4A. But the key is they'll be paying less than they do now.

It's okay to criticize Warren for backing off a hardline stance for immediate implementation.

Just like it's okay to note that Bernie has accomplished very little compared to his time in the Senate because he's taken so many hardline stances without building the necessary coalition.


Not necessarily. I pay $600 per year for excellent insurance for my family. I highly doubt M4A will beat that, which is why I support Public Option over M4A


How in the world are you getting such inexpensive insurance? You realize that is not the norm, right?


No kidding. I'm paying five times that for excellent insurance for my family.


I pay over $12k per year for ours. I have been to the doctor maybe 5 times in the last 10 years.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:19 am    Post subject:

Anybody know the health care insurance plan breakdown (estimate cost, increase/decrease services, likelihood to be able to pass) between Sanders(M4A)-Warren(ACA transition to M4A)-Biden(Strengthens ACA)?
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:48 am    Post subject:

vanexelent wrote:
LarryCoon wrote:
Surfitall wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
kikanga wrote:
The middle class will have to help pay for M4A. But the key is they'll be paying less than they do now.

It's okay to criticize Warren for backing off a hardline stance for immediate implementation.

Just like it's okay to note that Bernie has accomplished very little compared to his time in the Senate because he's taken so many hardline stances without building the necessary coalition.


Not necessarily. I pay $600 per year for excellent insurance for my family. I highly doubt M4A will beat that, which is why I support Public Option over M4A


How in the world are you getting such inexpensive insurance? You realize that is not the norm, right?


No kidding. I'm paying five times that for excellent insurance for my family.


I pay over $12k per year for ours. I have been to the doctor maybe 5 times in the last 10 years.


Which means you pay 20 times what DMR pays. Nah, the system doesn't need fixing....
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DaMuleRules
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:32 am    Post subject:

LarryCoon wrote:
Surfitall wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
kikanga wrote:
The middle class will have to help pay for M4A. But the key is they'll be paying less than they do now.

It's okay to criticize Warren for backing off a hardline stance for immediate implementation.

Just like it's okay to note that Bernie has accomplished very little compared to his time in the Senate because he's taken so many hardline stances without building the necessary coalition.


Not necessarily. I pay $600 per year for excellent insurance for my family. I highly doubt M4A will beat that, which is why I support Public Option over M4A


How in the world are you getting such inexpensive insurance? You realize that is not the norm, right?


No kidding. I'm paying five times that for excellent insurance for my family.


I have MPIHP as part of my IATSE union status. So pension and health are taken care of. And I'm fully vested at this point in regards to the health plan, so if I retire right now I keep it.

Yes, I realize that's not the norm and don't get me wrong, I want everyone to have health care that is easily affordable. But that's not my point. I don't think that people who are fortunate enough to have such a plan should have to give it up to provide health for all.
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DaMuleRules
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:48 am    Post subject:

LarryCoon wrote:
vanexelent wrote:
LarryCoon wrote:
Surfitall wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
kikanga wrote:
The middle class will have to help pay for M4A. But the key is they'll be paying less than they do now.

It's okay to criticize Warren for backing off a hardline stance for immediate implementation.

Just like it's okay to note that Bernie has accomplished very little compared to his time in the Senate because he's taken so many hardline stances without building the necessary coalition.


Not necessarily. I pay $600 per year for excellent insurance for my family. I highly doubt M4A will beat that, which is why I support Public Option over M4A


How in the world are you getting such inexpensive insurance? You realize that is not the norm, right?


No kidding. I'm paying five times that for excellent insurance for my family.


I pay over $12k per year for ours. I have been to the doctor maybe 5 times in the last 10 years.


Which means you pay 20 times what DMR pays. Nah, the system doesn't need fixing....


That wasn’t my point at all. Of course it does. My point is we should try to repair what’s broken and not strip away what’s working to get there.
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Man, do those lyrics resonate right now
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:00 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
LarryCoon wrote:
vanexelent wrote:
LarryCoon wrote:
Surfitall wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
kikanga wrote:
The middle class will have to help pay for M4A. But the key is they'll be paying less than they do now.

It's okay to criticize Warren for backing off a hardline stance for immediate implementation.

Just like it's okay to note that Bernie has accomplished very little compared to his time in the Senate because he's taken so many hardline stances without building the necessary coalition.


Not necessarily. I pay $600 per year for excellent insurance for my family. I highly doubt M4A will beat that, which is why I support Public Option over M4A


How in the world are you getting such inexpensive insurance? You realize that is not the norm, right?


No kidding. I'm paying five times that for excellent insurance for my family.


I pay over $12k per year for ours. I have been to the doctor maybe 5 times in the last 10 years.


Which means you pay 20 times what DMR pays. Nah, the system doesn't need fixing....


That wasn’t my point at all. Of course it does. My point is we should try to repair what’s broken and not strip away what’s working to get there.


That is a true test. Will we continue to have a hodgepodge of plans and options, or will we, at least eventually, go to a single system. How (or if) we integrate these great plans that some have (and earned), and I am one as well, into such a system will be tricky as this shrinks the pool, and the larger the pool, the lower the costs, theoretically.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:13 am    Post subject:

I have Kaiser Senior Advantage. $0 copay, $0 office visit, $1.50 for generic medication, $3.50 for name brand, new glasses every year, free dental. Age has it's advantages.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:24 pm    Post subject:

The chances are pretty good that Mule’s insurance is pretty expensive, even with the joint buying power essentially of the movie and tv industry. He’s fortunate that he works in an industry that is both very high revenue and also relies specifically on its performers (on both sides of the camera), thus he not only gets paid extremely well, his cohort has been able to unionize and thus his employers pay for the lion’s share of the cost. I can understand why he wouldn’t want to give that up.

But his healthcare is a symptom of the problem. Some people have access to great care because they can afford it, or in some cases because it is part of their generous compensation, and many people have lousy to no care. It’s Balkanized.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:21 pm    Post subject:

https://www.mediaite.com/politics/watch-brits-get-shocked-by-costs-of-healthcare-in-us-so-if-youre-poor-youre-dead/

Quote:

The video concluded with the interviewees expressing gratitude for the UK National Health Service (NHS), England’s public health care.

“Literally the gift that keeps on giving. Literally, literally, people are so dumb for taking advantage of it and I don’t want it to change,” claimed one Brit, while another commented, “I didn’t know how much free healthcare we got like just of the bat, but like knowing you have to pay like $30,000 for a child, it’s outrageous. It really is ridiculous. So thank you NHS for all your hard work. ”


https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2019/07/20dems-are-taking-money-healthcare/

Quote:

No Democratic candidate has pulled in more from the healthcare and pharmaceutical industries than Biden, who raised more than $97,000. The former vice president took in more than $11,000 from affiliates of industry giant Blue Cross/Blue Shield, including the maximum $2,800 from Daniel Hilferty, CEO of Independence Blue Cross who sits on the board of a major health insurance trade group that is fighting to defeat Sanders’ Medicare for All healthcare plan.

Buttigieg is runner-up, taking home nearly $94,000. His list of donors includes executives from Aetna, Regeneron Pharmaceuticals, Pfizer and Indiana’s Eli Lilly & Co. The Midwestern mayor has questioned the merits of Medicare for All, but has also put forth his own plan, Medicare for Those Who Want It, which the healthcare industry also opposes.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:47 pm    Post subject:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/rep-jayapal-a-leading-liberal-endorses-sanders-for-president/2020/01/19/d1bdb3c0-3a35-11ea-bb7b-265f4554af6d_story.html

Quote:

Rep. Pramila Jayapal, a rising star in the Democratic Party's liberal wing and one of the most prominent women of color in Congress, is endorsing Sen. Bernie Sanders for president, choosing him over Sen. Elizabeth Warren on the heels of an explosive confrontation over the question of whether a woman can defeat President Trump.

In a telephone interview with The Washington Post on Sunday, Jayapal (D-Wash.) said she decided to endorse Sanders because "he has a clarity on policy prescriptions that goes right to the heart of what working people need." She will unveil her endorsement Monday in Iowa.

"What I feel we need is a candidate who is entirely authentic about what's wrong and steadfast about it and can rally people to believe he can trust them," she said. "Bernie has that. I can feel Bernie beating Trump."

Jayapal also told The Post that she will be named national health policy chair for the Sanders campaign, as well as a Washington state chair.


70% of Bernie's leadership team is already female.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:48 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
https://www.mediaite.com/politics/watch-brits-get-shocked-by-costs-of-healthcare-in-us-so-if-youre-poor-youre-dead/

Quote:

The video concluded with the interviewees expressing gratitude for the UK National Health Service (NHS), England’s public health care.

“Literally the gift that keeps on giving. Literally, literally, people are so dumb for taking advantage of it and I don’t want it to change,” claimed one Brit, while another commented, “I didn’t know how much free healthcare we got like just of the bat, but like knowing you have to pay like $30,000 for a child, it’s outrageous. It really is ridiculous. So thank you NHS for all your hard work. ”


https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2019/07/20dems-are-taking-money-healthcare/

Quote:

No Democratic candidate has pulled in more from the healthcare and pharmaceutical industries than Biden, who raised more than $97,000. The former vice president took in more than $11,000 from affiliates of industry giant Blue Cross/Blue Shield, including the maximum $2,800 from Daniel Hilferty, CEO of Independence Blue Cross who sits on the board of a major health insurance trade group that is fighting to defeat Sanders’ Medicare for All healthcare plan.

Buttigieg is runner-up, taking home nearly $94,000. His list of donors includes executives from Aetna, Regeneron Pharmaceuticals, Pfizer and Indiana’s Eli Lilly & Co. The Midwestern mayor has questioned the merits of Medicare for All, but has also put forth his own plan, Medicare for Those Who Want It, which the healthcare industry also opposes.


You're really starting to annoy me with the constant attacks on other Dems and not a peep about Drumpf and the republican'ts.
I Guarantee you won't vote for Biden if he's the nominee.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:49 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/rep-jayapal-a-leading-liberal-endorses-sanders-for-president/2020/01/19/d1bdb3c0-3a35-11ea-bb7b-265f4554af6d_story.html

Quote:

Rep. Pramila Jayapal, a rising star in the Democratic Party's liberal wing and one of the most prominent women of color in Congress, is endorsing Sen. Bernie Sanders for president, choosing him over Sen. Elizabeth Warren on the heels of an explosive confrontation over the question of whether a woman can defeat President Trump.

In a telephone interview with The Washington Post on Sunday, Jayapal (D-Wash.) said she decided to endorse Sanders because "he has a clarity on policy prescriptions that goes right to the heart of what working people need." She will unveil her endorsement Monday in Iowa.

"What I feel we need is a candidate who is entirely authentic about what's wrong and steadfast about it and can rally people to believe he can trust them," she said. "Bernie has that. I can feel Bernie beating Trump."

Jayapal also told The Post that she will be named national health policy chair for the Sanders campaign, as well as a Washington state chair.


70% of Bernie's leadership team is already female.

Just non-stop idpol stuff from you.
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DaMuleRules
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:53 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
The chances are pretty good that Mule’s insurance is pretty expensive, even with the joint buying power essentially of the movie and tv industry. He’s fortunate that he works in an industry that is both very high revenue and also relies specifically on its performers (on both sides of the camera), thus he not only gets paid extremely well, his cohort has been able to unionize and thus his employers pay for the lion’s share of the cost. I can understand why he wouldn’t want to give that up.

But his healthcare is a symptom of the problem. Some people have access to great care because they can afford it, or in some cases because it is part of their generous compensation, and many people have lousy to no care. It’s Balkanized.


Exactly. It is a benefit due of a strong contract through my union that I get to retain by making sure to get in my qualifying hours. And as I have reached the point I am fully vested, I can count on coverage. I guarantee you that if private insurance is abolished, the studios and producers we have collectively negotiated with are not going to simply say, "now that you have lost that benefit, we are going to increase your compensation". It's going to take a major new negotiation with no guarantee of how that turns out.

I completely understand why on the surface the idea of taking health care out of the hands of private companies might be a good idea. But the reality is, it is not that simple. If I thought it was, and that the millions of people who are in the group that great insurance is part of their compensation/benefits would not be effectively penalized for such a move, it would be a no-brainer. But unfortunately there's no way for an effective and simple switch to M4A that is not going to come at great loss to many people. Throw in the fact that there's no way this country's government is going to come up with an agency that is going to be able to take on such an enterprise effectively and efficiently without all kinds of red etc., the idea of removing the option for people to retain private insurance that is working is a non-starter.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:55 pm    Post subject:

Pramila Jayapal was one of the few Democratic candidates that Sanders actually endorsed and campaigned for when she first ran in 2016.

And she's great. He can learn a lot from her in that she's a passionate progressive while being a proud Democrat. She can also promote progressive policy without giving repetitive talking points.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:59 pm    Post subject:

eddiejonze wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
https://www.mediaite.com/politics/watch-brits-get-shocked-by-costs-of-healthcare-in-us-so-if-youre-poor-youre-dead/

Quote:

The video concluded with the interviewees expressing gratitude for the UK National Health Service (NHS), England’s public health care.

“Literally the gift that keeps on giving. Literally, literally, people are so dumb for taking advantage of it and I don’t want it to change,” claimed one Brit, while another commented, “I didn’t know how much free healthcare we got like just of the bat, but like knowing you have to pay like $30,000 for a child, it’s outrageous. It really is ridiculous. So thank you NHS for all your hard work. ”


https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2019/07/20dems-are-taking-money-healthcare/

Quote:

No Democratic candidate has pulled in more from the healthcare and pharmaceutical industries than Biden, who raised more than $97,000. The former vice president took in more than $11,000 from affiliates of industry giant Blue Cross/Blue Shield, including the maximum $2,800 from Daniel Hilferty, CEO of Independence Blue Cross who sits on the board of a major health insurance trade group that is fighting to defeat Sanders’ Medicare for All healthcare plan.

Buttigieg is runner-up, taking home nearly $94,000. His list of donors includes executives from Aetna, Regeneron Pharmaceuticals, Pfizer and Indiana’s Eli Lilly & Co. The Midwestern mayor has questioned the merits of Medicare for All, but has also put forth his own plan, Medicare for Those Who Want It, which the healthcare industry also opposes.


You're really starting to annoy me with the constant attacks on other Dems and not a peep about Drumpf and the republican'ts.
I Guarantee you won't vote for Biden if he's the nominee.


Keep in mind, Bernie supporters aren't Dems, and Bernie is in name only because he knows he needs to glom on to the party to remain viable. To Bernie and his supporters, the Dems are just another evil and that Berners are the primary proponents of the idiotic and intellectually dishonest "both sides are the same" nonsense.
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You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
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Man, do those lyrics resonate right now
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:04 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:


Keep in mind, Bernie supporters aren't Dems, and Bernie is in name only because he knows he needs to glom on to the party to remain viable. To Bernie and his supporters, the Dems are just another evil and that Berners are the primary proponents of the idiotic and intellectually dishonest "both sides are the same" nonsense.


Well, some of his supporters, though probably a significant minority. It's unfortunate that they are the most active and loudest on social media and get to define the entire progressive movement in their own terms.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:09 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
eddiejonze wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
https://www.mediaite.com/politics/watch-brits-get-shocked-by-costs-of-healthcare-in-us-so-if-youre-poor-youre-dead/

Quote:

The video concluded with the interviewees expressing gratitude for the UK National Health Service (NHS), England’s public health care.

“Literally the gift that keeps on giving. Literally, literally, people are so dumb for taking advantage of it and I don’t want it to change,” claimed one Brit, while another commented, “I didn’t know how much free healthcare we got like just of the bat, but like knowing you have to pay like $30,000 for a child, it’s outrageous. It really is ridiculous. So thank you NHS for all your hard work. ”




https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2019/07/20dems-are-taking-money-healthcare/

Quote:

No Democratic candidate has pulled in more from the healthcare and pharmaceutical industries than Biden, who raised more than $97,000. The former vice president took in more than $11,000 from affiliates of industry giant Blue Cross/Blue Shield, including the maximum $2,800 from Daniel Hilferty, CEO of Independence Blue Cross who sits on the board of a major health insurance trade group that is fighting to defeat Sanders’ Medicare for All healthcare plan.

Buttigieg is runner-up, taking home nearly $94,000. His list of donors includes executives from Aetna, Regeneron Pharmaceuticals, Pfizer and Indiana’s Eli Lilly & Co. The Midwestern mayor has questioned the merits of Medicare for All, but has also put forth his own plan, Medicare for Those Who Want It, which the healthcare industry also opposes.


You're really starting to annoy me with the constant attacks on other Dems and not a peep about Drumpf and the republican'ts.
I Guarantee you won't vote for Biden if he's the nominee.


Keep in mind, Bernie supporters aren't Dems, and Bernie is in name only because he knows he needs to glom on to the party to remain viable. To Bernie and his supporters, the Dems are just another evil and that Berners are the primary proponents of the idiotic and intellectually dishonest "both sides are the same" nonsense.


Good point, I knew that but I'll have to remember that going forward when dealing with Berners- Don't want to be rude to em but I really don't think they get this is not the election to have a "revolution" IMO.
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DaMuleRules
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:19 pm    Post subject:

Did Biden laud a Paul Ryan proposal to cut Social Security as Bernie Sanders’ campaign said?

NOPE
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