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DaMuleRules
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 Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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The whole Trump family just lies like a rug . . .
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Hector the Pup
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah . . . that one was stupefying, even for them . . .
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You thought God was an architect, now you know
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And everything you built that’s all for show
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Jason Isbell
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | I think Bernie's base is more energized and more likely to come out and vote than any other base. However, isn't the entire democratic base more energized to vote regardless? Will Bernie's followers make that much of a difference, especially when you consider that Bernie, likely more than any other candidate, will energize the Trump/republican base to come out, potentially offsetting whatever greater voter turn out Bernie may offer as a candidate?
Biden may be the least appealing Democrat in the field, but may still very well be the most electable. I don't know if Warren is more electable than Bernie or not, even if, ideally, she would likely be who I would want as our next President. |
56% of the country doesn't vote. The swing states specifically were lost due to low turnout largely in the black community. That's a massive pool you can draw from if you have a candidate who excites and inspires rather than bores and doesn't offend. |
And that's a non-starter regardless. So obviously the thing to do is to try and encourage and inspire as many as those as possible. You don't have a chance of doing that if everyone on the Dem side goes hammering away at candidates and calling them enemies while pretending there is only one option, because all that does is re-enforce the "stay at home" attitude. |
No, you don't have a chance of reaching them if your nominee sucks. The point of the primary is to vet these differences out now, determine each candidate's strengths and weaknesses, so you're not blindsided in November. And frankly, that 56% or segment of people you're worried about being poisoned in the general aren't paying attention right now. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | I think Bernie's base is more energized and more likely to come out and vote than any other base. However, isn't the entire democratic base more energized to vote regardless? Will Bernie's followers make that much of a difference, especially when you consider that Bernie, likely more than any other candidate, will energize the Trump/republican base to come out, potentially offsetting whatever greater voter turn out Bernie may offer as a candidate?
Biden may be the least appealing Democrat in the field, but may still very well be the most electable. I don't know if Warren is more electable than Bernie or not, even if, ideally, she would likely be who I would want as our next President. |
56% of the country doesn't vote. The swing states specifically were lost due to low turnout largely in the black community. That's a massive pool you can draw from if you have a candidate who excites and inspires rather than bores and doesn't offend. |
And that's a non-starter regardless. So obviously the thing to do is to try and encourage and inspire as many as those as possible. You don't have a chance of doing that if everyone on the Dem side goes hammering away at candidates and calling them enemies while pretending there is only one option, because all that does is re-enforce the "stay at home" attitude. |
No, you don't have a chance of reaching them if your nominee sucks. The point of the primary is to vet these differences out now, determine each candidate's strengths and weaknesses, so you're not blindsided in November. And frankly, that 56% or segment of people you're worried about being poisoned in the general aren't paying attention right now. |
I'm still trying to figure out why the 56% are more likely to show up for a candidate from a minority wing of the party that has a hard time getting its own constituents to show up reliably?
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | I think Bernie's base is more energized and more likely to come out and vote than any other base. However, isn't the entire democratic base more energized to vote regardless? Will Bernie's followers make that much of a difference, especially when you consider that Bernie, likely more than any other candidate, will energize the Trump/republican base to come out, potentially offsetting whatever greater voter turn out Bernie may offer as a candidate?
Biden may be the least appealing Democrat in the field, but may still very well be the most electable. I don't know if Warren is more electable than Bernie or not, even if, ideally, she would likely be who I would want as our next President. |
56% of the country doesn't vote. The swing states specifically were lost due to low turnout largely in the black community. That's a massive pool you can draw from if you have a candidate who excites and inspires rather than bores and doesn't offend. |
And that's a non-starter regardless. So obviously the thing to do is to try and encourage and inspire as many as those as possible. You don't have a chance of doing that if everyone on the Dem side goes hammering away at candidates and calling them enemies while pretending there is only one option, because all that does is re-enforce the "stay at home" attitude. |
No, you don't have a chance of reaching them if your nominee sucks. The point of the primary is to vet these differences out now, determine each candidate's strengths and weaknesses, so you're not blindsided in November. And frankly, that 56% or segment of people you're worried about being poisoned in the general aren't paying attention right now. |
I'm still trying to figure out why the 56% are more likely to show up for a candidate from a minority wing of the party that has a hard time getting its own constituents to show up reliably? |
He's drawing the most money and the biggest crowds. His organization is massive. This is a guy who got elected mayor in Burlington, Vermont as a socialist during the height of Reaganism. I just don't understand your point. Provide some evidence of these constituents being bums. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | I think Bernie's base is more energized and more likely to come out and vote than any other base. However, isn't the entire democratic base more energized to vote regardless? Will Bernie's followers make that much of a difference, especially when you consider that Bernie, likely more than any other candidate, will energize the Trump/republican base to come out, potentially offsetting whatever greater voter turn out Bernie may offer as a candidate?
Biden may be the least appealing Democrat in the field, but may still very well be the most electable. I don't know if Warren is more electable than Bernie or not, even if, ideally, she would likely be who I would want as our next President. |
56% of the country doesn't vote. The swing states specifically were lost due to low turnout largely in the black community. That's a massive pool you can draw from if you have a candidate who excites and inspires rather than bores and doesn't offend. |
And that's a non-starter regardless. So obviously the thing to do is to try and encourage and inspire as many as those as possible. You don't have a chance of doing that if everyone on the Dem side goes hammering away at candidates and calling them enemies while pretending there is only one option, because all that does is re-enforce the "stay at home" attitude. |
No, you don't have a chance of reaching them if your nominee sucks. The point of the primary is to vet these differences out now, determine each candidate's strengths and weaknesses, so you're not blindsided in November. And frankly, that 56% or segment of people you're worried about being poisoned in the general aren't paying attention right now. |
I'm still trying to figure out why the 56% are more likely to show up for a candidate from a minority wing of the party that has a hard time getting its own constituents to show up reliably? |
He's drawing the most money and the biggest crowds. His organization is massive. This is a guy who got elected mayor in Burlington, Vermont as a socialist during the height of Reaganism. I just don't understand your point. Provide some evidence of these constituents being bums. |
None of what you said had anything to do with what I asked. Bernie draws big crowds of his constituents, which are middle to far left dems and left independents. And we've already gone over the data of how the far left is very unreliable in off year elections. The larger question is, who is this 56% and why would you think they are waiting for Bernie?
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Huey Lewis & The News
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Location: So what's the uh...topic of discussion?
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | I think Bernie's base is more energized and more likely to come out and vote than any other base. However, isn't the entire democratic base more energized to vote regardless? Will Bernie's followers make that much of a difference, especially when you consider that Bernie, likely more than any other candidate, will energize the Trump/republican base to come out, potentially offsetting whatever greater voter turn out Bernie may offer as a candidate?
Biden may be the least appealing Democrat in the field, but may still very well be the most electable. I don't know if Warren is more electable than Bernie or not, even if, ideally, she would likely be who I would want as our next President. |
56% of the country doesn't vote. The swing states specifically were lost due to low turnout largely in the black community. That's a massive pool you can draw from if you have a candidate who excites and inspires rather than bores and doesn't offend. |
And that's a non-starter regardless. So obviously the thing to do is to try and encourage and inspire as many as those as possible. You don't have a chance of doing that if everyone on the Dem side goes hammering away at candidates and calling them enemies while pretending there is only one option, because all that does is re-enforce the "stay at home" attitude. |
No, you don't have a chance of reaching them if your nominee sucks. The point of the primary is to vet these differences out now, determine each candidate's strengths and weaknesses, so you're not blindsided in November. And frankly, that 56% or segment of people you're worried about being poisoned in the general aren't paying attention right now. |
I'm still trying to figure out why the 56% are more likely to show up for a candidate from a minority wing of the party that has a hard time getting its own constituents to show up reliably? |
He's drawing the most money and the biggest crowds. His organization is massive. This is a guy who got elected mayor in Burlington, Vermont as a socialist during the height of Reaganism. I just don't understand your point. Provide some evidence of these constituents being bums. |
Bernouts like to do this thing where they flaunt his crowd sizes. They post pics of them and say "look at all of these enthusiastic Bernie fans who showed up, of course he's the most popular!"
Too bad for Bernie that the crowd size that matters is the one at the ballot box.
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | None of what you said had anything to do with what I asked. Bernie draws big crowds of his constituents, which are middle to far left dems and left independents. And we've already gone over the data of how the far left is very unreliable in off year elections. The larger question is, who is this 56% and why would you think they are waiting for Bernie? |
What does that have to do with this election which is not off-year?
And I've provided you a link twice to a NYT story about black voters in Milwaukee who didn't vote (and don't regret it) that gets right into the guts of this topic. Those voters were right in Bernie's alley. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | None of what you said had anything to do with what I asked. Bernie draws big crowds of his constituents, which are middle to far left dems and left independents. And we've already gone over the data of how the far left is very unreliable in off year elections. The larger question is, who is this 56% and why would you think they are waiting for Bernie? |
What does that have to do with this election which is not off-year?
And I've provided you a link twice to a NYT story about black voters in Milwaukee who didn't vote (and don't regret it) that gets right into the guts of this topic. Those voters were right in Bernie's alley. |
You asked me about the reliability comment. FWIW, lefties tend to be fairly unreliable in presidential years too, but i'm giving you the benefit of having a candidate that galvanizes them. I just don't see a huge lane for Bernie with swing voters. he's pretty much maximizing his pull in the primary,
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | I think Bernie's base is more energized and more likely to come out and vote than any other base. However, isn't the entire democratic base more energized to vote regardless? Will Bernie's followers make that much of a difference, especially when you consider that Bernie, likely more than any other candidate, will energize the Trump/republican base to come out, potentially offsetting whatever greater voter turn out Bernie may offer as a candidate?
Biden may be the least appealing Democrat in the field, but may still very well be the most electable. I don't know if Warren is more electable than Bernie or not, even if, ideally, she would likely be who I would want as our next President. |
56% of the country doesn't vote. The swing states specifically were lost due to low turnout largely in the black community. That's a massive pool you can draw from if you have a candidate who excites and inspires rather than bores and doesn't offend. |
And that's a non-starter regardless. So obviously the thing to do is to try and encourage and inspire as many as those as possible. You don't have a chance of doing that if everyone on the Dem side goes hammering away at candidates and calling them enemies while pretending there is only one option, because all that does is re-enforce the "stay at home" attitude. |
No, you don't have a chance of reaching them if your nominee sucks. The point of the primary is to vet these differences out now, determine each candidate's strengths and weaknesses, so you're not blindsided in November. And frankly, that 56% or segment of people you're worried about being poisoned in the general aren't paying attention right now. |
I'm still trying to figure out why the 56% are more likely to show up for a candidate from a minority wing of the party that has a hard time getting its own constituents to show up reliably? |
Exactly. That 56% is a diverse group of people with a variety of concerns on the issues and desires in a candidate. If you want to inspire those in that group to go out for the Primaries, you need to instill upon them that it is a strong and varied field that provides them someone to vote for. Not disillusion them that the field is full of crappy candidates. You're undoubtedly more likely to get people voting in the general if they have taken the time and interest in the spring.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | None of what you said had anything to do with what I asked. Bernie draws big crowds of his constituents, which are middle to far left dems and left independents. And we've already gone over the data of how the far left is very unreliable in off year elections. The larger question is, who is this 56% and why would you think they are waiting for Bernie? |
What does that have to do with this election which is not off-year?
And I've provided you a link twice to a NYT story about black voters in Milwaukee who didn't vote (and don't regret it) that gets right into the guts of this topic. Those voters were right in Bernie's alley. |
You asked me about the reliability comment. FWIW, lefties tend to be fairly unreliable in presidential years too, but i'm giving you the benefit of having a candidate that galvanizes them. I just don't see a huge lane for Bernie with swing voters. he's pretty much maximizing his pull in the primary, |
Maybe it's because the nominee didn't win their vote. I see Bill Maher flat out say "Screw these people. Where else are they going to go?", and then act outraged and perplexed when they stay at home. Although I don't think that's actually true. Most dense urban areas went for Hillary.
But the Bernie swing voter is the poor. Nurses, bartenders, Wallmart/Amazon Fulfillment Center workers, retail clerks, etc.. There's no shortage of them in the Midwest. |
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eddiejonze
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | None of what you said had anything to do with what I asked. Bernie draws big crowds of his constituents, which are middle to far left dems and left independents. And we've already gone over the data of how the far left is very unreliable in off year elections. The larger question is, who is this 56% and why would you think they are waiting for Bernie? |
What does that have to do with this election which is not off-year?
And I've provided you a link twice to a NYT story about black voters in Milwaukee who didn't vote (and don't regret it) that gets right into the guts of this topic. Those voters were right in Bernie's alley. |
You asked me about the reliability comment. FWIW, lefties tend to be fairly unreliable in presidential years too, but i'm giving you the benefit of having a candidate that galvanizes them. I just don't see a huge lane for Bernie with swing voters. he's pretty much maximizing his pull in the primary, |
Maybe it's because the nominee didn't win their vote. I see Bill Maher flat out say "Screw these people. Where else are they going to go?", and then act outraged and perplexed when they stay at home. Although I don't think that's actually true. Most dense urban areas went for Hillary.
But the Bernie swing voter is the poor. Nurses, bartenders, Wallmart/Amazon Fulfillment Center workers, retail clerks, etc.. There's no shortage of them in the Midwest. |
The AA vote is Biden's and to suggest otherwise is being disingenuous or outright, lying.
Every candidate of color that has taken jabs at Joe have dropped out, like Booker today. They didn't do it because of ideology, but trying to peel off some of his AA support.
It didn't work.
You type like someone who is younger than 30- talking in absolutes and have not lived long enough, or in enough parts of the country to know what the rest of the country is thinking.
I'm telling you there are a lot of Biden moderates (AA especially) who didn't vote for Hillary but will for Biden.
Unlike 2016, there is a feeling out there the freakin world will end if Dems don't win.
Now is NOT the time for a "revolution"
WAKE. THE. HELL. UP.
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eddiejonze
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| eddiejonze wrote: | Speaking of Biden, Julian Castro just dropped out to make it a total of three candidates to call it quits who kind of talked down to Joe at the debates and inferred he was senile, or slow, or too old.
Next up, Cory Booker... |
Called it.
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | None of what you said had anything to do with what I asked. Bernie draws big crowds of his constituents, which are middle to far left dems and left independents. And we've already gone over the data of how the far left is very unreliable in off year elections. The larger question is, who is this 56% and why would you think they are waiting for Bernie? |
What does that have to do with this election which is not off-year?
And I've provided you a link twice to a NYT story about black voters in Milwaukee who didn't vote (and don't regret it) that gets right into the guts of this topic. Those voters were right in Bernie's alley. |
You asked me about the reliability comment. FWIW, lefties tend to be fairly unreliable in presidential years too, but i'm giving you the benefit of having a candidate that galvanizes them. I just don't see a huge lane for Bernie with swing voters. he's pretty much maximizing his pull in the primary, |
Maybe it's because the nominee didn't win their vote. I see Bill Maher flat out say "Screw these people. Where else are they going to go?", and then act outraged and perplexed when they stay at home. Although I don't think that's actually true. Most dense urban areas went for Hillary.
But the Bernie swing voter is the poor. Nurses, bartenders, Wallmart/Amazon Fulfillment Center workers, retail clerks, etc.. There's no shortage of them in the Midwest. |
OK, that's what I'm getting at. You're not talking about a very reliable, serious voting bloc. Didn't win your vote? Have you seen the alternative? I can't get this out there enough. THERE IS NO NONE OF THE ABOVE. Anyone left of center who has to be cajoled into voting Democratic for President is not someone who hasn't been won. It's someone who hasn't figured out simple reality. That's something the GOP voter is smarter about (setting aside their assessment of which team is theirs). They know a non vote is a vote for the opponent.
And what does Bill Maher have to do with it?
And Bernie doesn't really reach a lot of the poor swing voters.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| eddiejonze wrote: | | eddiejonze wrote: | Speaking of Biden, Julian Castro just dropped out to make it a total of three candidates to call it quits who kind of talked down to Joe at the debates and inferred he was senile, or slow, or too old.
Next up, Cory Booker... |
Called it.
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I wouldn't hurt yourself patting yourself on the back for calling a guy who was obviously gonna fold any day.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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vanexelent
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Am I crazy to think guys like Bernie and Yang actually have a favorable standing among some Republican voters? |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | | Am I crazy to think guys like Bernie and Yang actually have a favorable standing among some Republican voters? |
Yang yes, Bernie more as a "we'd like him to win the primary please" candidate.
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Surfitall
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | Am I crazy to think guys like Bernie and Yang actually have a favorable standing among some Republican voters? |
Yang yes, Bernie more as a "we'd like him to win the primary please" candidate. |
I would love for Yang to be the guy...I would love to see analysis on why his campaign isn't gaining traction that I think it deserves. Of course I am just one person...apparently I'm not representative of everyone else. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | OK, that's what I'm getting at. You're not talking about a very reliable, serious voting bloc. Didn't win your vote? Have you seen the alternative? I can't get this out there enough. THERE IS NO NONE OF THE ABOVE. Anyone left of center who has to be cajoled into voting Democratic for President is not someone who hasn't been won. It's someone who hasn't figured out simple reality. That's something the GOP voter is smarter about (setting aside their assessment of which team is theirs). They know a non vote is a vote for the opponent.
And what does Bill Maher have to do with it?
And Bernie doesn't really reach a lot of the poor swing voters. |
It's about what's a more effective strategy. I say you should try to win their vote; appeal to their concerns. You go the voter shaming route ("Screw them"). I don't know with any certainty what's more effective, but the latter clearly didn't work in 2016, and now we have Trump. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | eddiejonze wrote: | | eddiejonze wrote: | Speaking of Biden, Julian Castro just dropped out to make it a total of three candidates to call it quits who kind of talked down to Joe at the debates and inferred he was senile, or slow, or too old.
Next up, Cory Booker... |
Called it.
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I wouldn't hurt yourself patting yourself on the back for calling a guy who was obviously gonna fold any day. |
Yep. I was surprised he was around this long.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | but the latter clearly didn't work in 2016, and now we have Trump. |
I don't think we can say that with any certainty. We had the Russian bots and collusion with them and various players of the Trump team, and we had Comey.
Last edited by ribeye on Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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vanexelent
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | Am I crazy to think guys like Bernie and Yang actually have a favorable standing among some Republican voters? |
Yang yes, Bernie more as a "we'd like him to win the primary please" candidate. |
I mean when Bernie did that Fox News town hall, he was welcomed with applause for his views on health care and that's essentially the most socialist proposal the Dems have, outside of Yang literally giving people free money. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | Am I crazy to think guys like Bernie and Yang actually have a favorable standing among some Republican voters? |
Yang yes, Bernie more as a "we'd like him to win the primary please" candidate. |
I mean when Bernie did that Fox News town hall, he was welcomed with applause for his views on health care and that's essentially the most socialist proposal the Dems have, outside of Yang literally giving people free money. |
Yeah, I know. Setting aside Fox selecting the audience (not necessarily all GOP voters), do you really think there is some GOP voter out there going, "I'd be totally OK voting for the dems if they'd get further left"?
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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Worth noting that there's a very solid urge on the part of the GOP for Bernie to do well, same as last time. And likely a much more sophisticated assistance campaign from them and the Russians.
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