|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
kikanga
Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29281
Location: La La Land
|
 Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Since longform was requested. I hope this article is suffice. https://tinyurl.com/y3rees5m
This is just one of many excerpts from this that agree with my point.
| Quote: | “China has no rules,” said [Alex] Jones, who was wearing a NASA T-shirt. “They have human-animal hybrids 30 years ago, they’ve got giant human tissue farms. You know, you hear, ‘Oh, your Achilles is torn, we’ve got—grown in a lab—a tendon.’ It’s not a frickin’ tendon grown in a lab. It’s a frickin’ humanoid. These aren’t humans.”
Jones went on for a while—“I bet you $10 million that humanoids are real,” he announced at one point— until Rogan finally cut him off. “I believe you. I believe you,” he said. He clearly didn’t believe him, but the flipside of inviting Jones on a world-famous podcast to say dumb things for five hours is that there are people out there who listened to the episode and did come away believing that humanoids might be real, that the world is controlled by a secret cabal of elites, and that the mainstream media has been giving Alex Jones a raw deal. The resulting episode was thoroughly entertaining and also a bit disturbing. Jones is not just a friendly nut job. He is a purveyor of disinformation to a vast, ill-informed audience, some of whom have been unstable enough to take violent action against some of Jones’ favorite boogeymen. Rogan was sort of letting Jones hang himself with his own rope, but he also clearly wasn’t willing or able to refute some of Jones’ more outlandish points. Instead, he let the man ramble for four hours and 40 minutes. |
_________________
"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Last edited by kikanga on Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
kikanga
Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29281
Location: La La Land
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Another excerpt from the same article.
| Quote: | | Or take his recent re-evaluation of two-time podcast guest Gavin McInnes, for instance, whose openly violent Proud Boys serve as a vanguard of the far right in the United States and have been connected to white-nationalist violence. To Rogan, McInnes is just a larking, misunderstood provocateur. “He’s not a perfect person, but no one is. What he is is an interesting guy who’s weird, says funny (bleep),” said Rogan last November, at the end of a segment in which he decried what the Proud Boys have become but speculated that McInnes is basically just doing an extended, unfunny bit. “Didn’t he take a (bleep) on the air once on his show? He stuck his finger up his ass and (bleep) in a box or something? He’s a maniac.” |
_________________
"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
governator
Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25076
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| This thread is turning into Kobe vs LeBron |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Omar Little
Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90306
Location: Formerly Known As 24
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| governator wrote: | | This thread is turning into Kobe vs LeBron |
Nah. This is real life. This (bleep) matters.
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
governator
Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25076
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Omar Little wrote: | | governator wrote: | | This thread is turning into Kobe vs LeBron |
Nah. This is real life. This (bleep) matters. |
this is online, just my opinion, turning into battle of last word |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Omar Little wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | Hector the Pup wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | I don’t disagree that he thinks certain SJWs(ever heard of Antifa?) are hurting America, I agree. |
You fit into a niche I've never seen before. Repeats Republican talking points, but doesn't support Trump.
I guess that's an effective way to take a moral high ground from the right side of the aisle.
Do you agree with Rogan that David Duke could be controlled by the Democratic party as a way to hurt Republicans. |
Im assuming that’s because you prefer to only speak to like minded individuals. I’m far from one of a kind. Acknowledging how bad Antifa is for the country isn’t a republican talking point, its common sense if you do a smidge of objective research into Antifa.
I have no idea regarding David Duke. I know he was a democrat in the 80s but idk how the Democratic Party would control him. He seems like a disgusting person only interested in spewing his racist nonsense to anybody who will listen. Regardless, him saying he supports Tulsi means nothing to me. |
I'm a simple man. If Nazis think you're an okay person then you're doing something, many things in fact, very wrong. |
I think(maybe hope) you know that’s a drastic oversimplification regarding the Tulsi Gabbert situation. |
That’s fair. Russians like her too, as do right wing trolls... |
As do moderate independents sick of the elites of both parties. |
Interestingly enough, pollsters have begun to study the independent voter as the electoral college implications in swing states have come to the political forefront. The old saw was that there was this group of sober, thoughtful people who carefully sifted between the offerings of both parties, and refused to join their partisan elites, choosing race by race on the merits.
Turns out, that voter by and large does not exist. Instead, independents are mostly two groups:
1. The least informed and uninterested voters. They are independent because theyhave very little interest in politics day to day, and thus have very little understanding of it. They tend to go for personalities and soundbites, when they vote at all.
2. Disaffected members of a party when that party is making a big move in the "wrong" direction, but they are still too tied to ideology to move to the other party. Examples would be Reagan Democrats (in spirit, if no self named as such), and Never Trumpers.
The people who don't like the "elites" (meaning, the mainstream majority, and therefore the power) tend to fall on the outer wings of both parties, and the one thing they are not is moderate.
Now there is a third category of "independent" and that's the false independent who wants to attack the other side while not having to defend their own. |
I’m sorry I don’t fit under any of your predetermined labels. |
That moment when a guy is no longer trying to lie to you, but he’s now trying to convince himself. You’re not unique or particularly noteworthy (in this arena, you may be amazing and singular in some other area), and you’re not outfoxing us. We see you. You want a better reception, bring better game. |
I know who I am and what I stand for. I’m not convincing myself of anything. You want to put people in convenient boxes because then you can attempt to attack them for what you conceive them to be instead of understanding what they believe and debate that. You’re not unique either. You are not fooling anybody. I see you as well. I don’t expect a good reception, why would I in an echo chamber like this? You aren’t open to reasonable debate and you’ve proven it. But I’ll still speak my mind when I choose to. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Omar Little wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: |
Yes, I saw the 30 second clip(maybe less) cut out of what I’m assuming was a 2-3 hour podcast. My assumption is he did indeed respond and push back on that idea as I’ve heard him do many times. Feel free to let me know which podcast that was and at what point they have that discussion and I can check. I’d be very surprised if he didn’t especially considering they also used a tiny Peterson clip from a pod I listened to which doesn’t do the conversation justice. |
The same Jordan Peterson who said?
| Quote: | | feminists have “an unconscious wish for brutal male domination,” referred to developing nations as “pits of catastrophe” in a speech to a Dutch far-right group, and recently told a Times reporter that he supported “enforced monogamy.” |
https://www.vox.com/world/2018/3/26/17144166/jordan-peterson-12-rules-for-life
I don't think there is any amount of homework I could do that would change your mind.
I mean, Joe is known for his unique long form interviewing style where he lets his guests go on and on unfettered.
Is Joe Rogan prejudice? No. Does Joe Rogan have people on both sides of the aisle on his show? Yes. But has he let hate speech fly when a guest comes on the show and spouts it? Yes.
The long leash he gives to guests is one of the things his pods are most known for. Well that and the fact that youtube recommends far right channels/videos when you click one of his videos.
I think this post addresses what I'm saying:
https://tinyurl.com/u9petsf |
More snippets intended to misrepresent what the message actually is. You are arguing against long form discussion that can allow a conversation to be discussed on a much deeper more precise level and are citing click baity headlines as reasons why. We’re just not gonna agree on this topic. |
Probably not. It hasn’t gotten any more cogent in long form. |
Any objective listener would agree it has even if they end up still disagreeing. But I’ve learned not to expect objectivity in here. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
| DaMuleRules wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: |
Interestingly enough, pollsters have begun to study the independent voter as the electoral college implications in swing states have come to the political forefront. The old saw was that there was this group of sober, thoughtful people who carefully sifted between the offerings of both parties, and refused to join their partisan elites, choosing race by race on the merits.
Turns out, that voter by and large does not exist. Instead, independents are mostly two groups:
1. The least informed and uninterested voters. They are independent because theyhave very little interest in politics day to day, and thus have very little understanding of it. They tend to go for personalities and soundbites, when they vote at all.
2. Disaffected members of a party when that party is making a big move in the "wrong" direction, but they are still too tied to ideology to move to the other party. Examples would be Reagan Democrats (in spirit, if no self named as such), and Never Trumpers.
The people who don't like the "elites" (meaning, the mainstream majority, and therefore the power) tend to fall on the outer wings of both parties, and the one thing they are not is moderate.
Now there is a third category of "independent" and that's the false independent who wants to attack the other side while not having to defend their own. |
I’m sorry I don’t fit under any of your predetermined labels. |
You should include “IMO” after this statement. |
Clever. Unoriginal but clever nonetheless. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| kikanga wrote: | Since longform was requested. I hope this article is suffice. https://tinyurl.com/y3rees5m
This is just one of many excerpts from this that agree with my point.
| Quote: | “China has no rules,” said [Alex] Jones, who was wearing a NASA T-shirt. “They have human-animal hybrids 30 years ago, they’ve got giant human tissue farms. You know, you hear, ‘Oh, your Achilles is torn, we’ve got—grown in a lab—a tendon.’ It’s not a frickin’ tendon grown in a lab. It’s a frickin’ humanoid. These aren’t humans.”
Jones went on for a while—“I bet you $10 million that humanoids are real,” he announced at one point— until Rogan finally cut him off. “I believe you. I believe you,” he said. He clearly didn’t believe him, but the flipside of inviting Jones on a world-famous podcast to say dumb things for five hours is that there are people out there who listened to the episode and did come away believing that humanoids might be real, that the world is controlled by a secret cabal of elites, and that the mainstream media has been giving Alex Jones a raw deal. The resulting episode was thoroughly entertaining and also a bit disturbing. Jones is not just a friendly nut job. He is a purveyor of disinformation to a vast, ill-informed audience, some of whom have been unstable enough to take violent action against some of Jones’ favorite boogeymen. Rogan was sort of letting Jones hang himself with his own rope, but he also clearly wasn’t willing or able to refute some of Jones’ more outlandish points. Instead, he let the man ramble for four hours and 40 minutes. |
|
“Rogan was sort of letting Jones hang himself with his own rope”
You forgot to bold this which supports my point. You and the writer of the article disagree with that strategy. I don’t.
Also, that’s not considered a long form discussion IMO. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kikanga
Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29281
Location: La La Land
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
| BigGameHames wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | Since longform was requested. I hope this article is suffice. https://tinyurl.com/y3rees5m
This is just one of many excerpts from this that agree with my point.
| Quote: | “China has no rules,” said [Alex] Jones, who was wearing a NASA T-shirt. “They have human-animal hybrids 30 years ago, they’ve got giant human tissue farms. You know, you hear, ‘Oh, your Achilles is torn, we’ve got—grown in a lab—a tendon.’ It’s not a frickin’ tendon grown in a lab. It’s a frickin’ humanoid. These aren’t humans.”
Jones went on for a while—“I bet you $10 million that humanoids are real,” he announced at one point— until Rogan finally cut him off. “I believe you. I believe you,” he said. He clearly didn’t believe him, but the flipside of inviting Jones on a world-famous podcast to say dumb things for five hours is that there are people out there who listened to the episode and did come away believing that humanoids might be real, that the world is controlled by a secret cabal of elites, and that the mainstream media has been giving Alex Jones a raw deal. The resulting episode was thoroughly entertaining and also a bit disturbing. Jones is not just a friendly nut job. He is a purveyor of disinformation to a vast, ill-informed audience, some of whom have been unstable enough to take violent action against some of Jones’ favorite boogeymen. Rogan was sort of letting Jones hang himself with his own rope, but he also clearly wasn’t willing or able to refute some of Jones’ more outlandish points. Instead, he let the man ramble for four hours and 40 minutes. |
|
“Rogan was sort of letting Jones hang himself with his own rope”
You forgot to bold this which supports my point. You and the writer of the article disagree with that strategy. I don’t.
Also, that’s not considered a long form discussion IMO. |
What proof do you have that Rogan's "strategy" works?
The video has 371K upvotes to 14K downvotes. Almost all top comments portray Jones as a truthteller.
_________________
"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| kikanga wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | Since longform was requested. I hope this article is suffice. https://tinyurl.com/y3rees5m
This is just one of many excerpts from this that agree with my point.
| Quote: | “China has no rules,” said [Alex] Jones, who was wearing a NASA T-shirt. “They have human-animal hybrids 30 years ago, they’ve got giant human tissue farms. You know, you hear, ‘Oh, your Achilles is torn, we’ve got—grown in a lab—a tendon.’ It’s not a frickin’ tendon grown in a lab. It’s a frickin’ humanoid. These aren’t humans.”
Jones went on for a while—“I bet you $10 million that humanoids are real,” he announced at one point— until Rogan finally cut him off. “I believe you. I believe you,” he said. He clearly didn’t believe him, but the flipside of inviting Jones on a world-famous podcast to say dumb things for five hours is that there are people out there who listened to the episode and did come away believing that humanoids might be real, that the world is controlled by a secret cabal of elites, and that the mainstream media has been giving Alex Jones a raw deal. The resulting episode was thoroughly entertaining and also a bit disturbing. Jones is not just a friendly nut job. He is a purveyor of disinformation to a vast, ill-informed audience, some of whom have been unstable enough to take violent action against some of Jones’ favorite boogeymen. Rogan was sort of letting Jones hang himself with his own rope, but he also clearly wasn’t willing or able to refute some of Jones’ more outlandish points. Instead, he let the man ramble for four hours and 40 minutes. |
|
“Rogan was sort of letting Jones hang himself with his own rope”
You forgot to bold this which supports my point. You and the writer of the article disagree with that strategy. I don’t.
Also, that’s not considered a long form discussion IMO. |
What proof do you have that Rogan's "strategy" works?
The video has 371K upvotes to 14K downvotes. Almost all top comments portray Jones as a truthteller. |
If YouTube comment sections represented society accurately we would be in the middle of world war 137 living in bomb shelters underneath a scorched uninhabitable earth. That podcast was extremely entertaining because Alex Jones is a nut who says crazy things hysterically. My liberal and conservative friends who listened to it all agree with that and is likely why it has far more upvotes. We can enjoy things without believing they are accurate.
What proof do you have it doesn’t? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kikanga
Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29281
Location: La La Land
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
| BigGameHames wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | Since longform was requested. I hope this article is suffice. https://tinyurl.com/y3rees5m
This is just one of many excerpts from this that agree with my point.
| Quote: | “China has no rules,” said [Alex] Jones, who was wearing a NASA T-shirt. “They have human-animal hybrids 30 years ago, they’ve got giant human tissue farms. You know, you hear, ‘Oh, your Achilles is torn, we’ve got—grown in a lab—a tendon.’ It’s not a frickin’ tendon grown in a lab. It’s a frickin’ humanoid. These aren’t humans.”
Jones went on for a while—“I bet you $10 million that humanoids are real,” he announced at one point— until Rogan finally cut him off. “I believe you. I believe you,” he said. He clearly didn’t believe him, but the flipside of inviting Jones on a world-famous podcast to say dumb things for five hours is that there are people out there who listened to the episode and did come away believing that humanoids might be real, that the world is controlled by a secret cabal of elites, and that the mainstream media has been giving Alex Jones a raw deal. The resulting episode was thoroughly entertaining and also a bit disturbing. Jones is not just a friendly nut job. He is a purveyor of disinformation to a vast, ill-informed audience, some of whom have been unstable enough to take violent action against some of Jones’ favorite boogeymen. Rogan was sort of letting Jones hang himself with his own rope, but he also clearly wasn’t willing or able to refute some of Jones’ more outlandish points. Instead, he let the man ramble for four hours and 40 minutes. |
|
“Rogan was sort of letting Jones hang himself with his own rope”
You forgot to bold this which supports my point. You and the writer of the article disagree with that strategy. I don’t.
Also, that’s not considered a long form discussion IMO. |
What proof do you have that Rogan's "strategy" works?
The video has 371K upvotes to 14K downvotes. Almost all top comments portray Jones as a truthteller. |
If YouTube comment sections represented society accurately we would be in the middle of world war 137 living in bomb shelters underneath a scorched uninhabitable earth. That podcast was extremely entertaining because Alex Jones is a nut who says crazy things hysterically. My liberal and conservative friends who listened to it all agree with that and is likely why it has far more upvotes. We can enjoy things without believing they are accurate.
What proof do you have it doesn’t? |
Sure the 371K upvotes were just people "entertained". None of those upvotes were people who bought what Jones was selling. 
Get him back on! Just the Epstein stuff alone could be a whole podcast.
1.9K
Get him back on the show to talk about Epstein
2.3K
plot twist, alex jones is actually right about everything and hes just the most frustrated person the planet
5.8K
his interview proves why legacy media wants him silenced. 4+ million views in 1 day. Cable news simply can’t compete.
4.2K
How many friends do you have that you are referencing?
_________________
"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hector the Pup
Retired Number
Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 35946
Location: L.A.
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
The first two representatives to endorse that orange thing for supreme being are both being convicted of federal crimes and stepping down from office.
Maybe the morons who follow him accept this as delivering on his promise to drain the swamp. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wilt
LG Contributor
Joined: 29 Dec 2002
Posts: 13725
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
He is once again embarrassing the country at the NATO summit, attacking allies, attacking American politicians on foreign soil, echoing Putin's talking points, lying his ass off, etc.
_________________
¡Hala Madrid! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DaMuleRules
Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52654
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Wilt wrote: | | He is once again embarrassing the country at the NATO summit, attacking allies, attacking American politicians on foreign soil, echoing Putin's talking points, lying his ass off, etc. |
So just another Tuesday . . .
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ribeye
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2001
Posts: 12630
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Hector the Pup wrote: | The first two representatives to endorse that orange thing for supreme being are both being convicted of federal crimes and stepping down from office.
Maybe the morons who follow him accept this as delivering on his promise to drain the swamp. |
Rachel spoke of this last night. Since both of them had been under investigation and still got elected, and then there is the molester and criminal in chief who also got elected, she suggested that maybe this is becoming the new Republican norm.
This could lead to some interesting platforms:
I raped a nun, but I will put the right guys on the SCOTUS, so vote for me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Omar Little
Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90306
Location: Formerly Known As 24
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
And that is why we can’t have a reasonable debate. Setting aside the tenet of civility, the most important part of a reasonable debate is an agreement on evidence. The old saying goes you’re entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. And a person making a claim has the obligation to prove it, the other person doesn’t have the obligation to disprove it (although they may).
Here we have the double whammy of not backing up a claim, and then when faced with counter evidence, refusing to acknowledge it. And demanding further evidence, which of course you will not accept either.
I accept you find Alex Jones entertaining. I accept you know he’s crazy. I also expect he’s entertaining to you because his world view is less threatening to yours and you consider him mostly harmless, and thus harmless for Rogan to spend hours giving him access to Rogan’s audience, and that none of that craziness (which is no longer fringe, he is very popular with the president and his base) than other people do. And that’s the argument. But the argument is evidence for the argument. And you’ve been resistant to any evidence against it.
Which is why we aren’t having a reasonable debate. Not be clause we don’t want to or are incapable of it, but because your intention here is not to subject your argument to scrutiny and counter argument and evidence, by us or you. Which means you have another motive for coming in here and engaging this way. And a usual, first you got the counter argument, but pretty soon, in light of no agreement on facts or evidence, you got pushback on the method and the motive.
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hector the Pup
Retired Number
Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 35946
Location: L.A.
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Omar Little wrote: | And that is why we can’t have a reasonable debate. Setting aside the tenet of civility, the most important part of a reasonable debate is an agreement on evidence. The old saying goes you’re entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. And a person making a claim has the obligation to prove it, the other person doesn’t have the obligation to disprove it (although they may).
Here we have the double whammy of not backing up a claim, and then when faced with counter evidence, refusing to acknowledge it. And demanding further evidence, which of course you will not accept either.
I accept you find Alex Jones entertaining. I accept you know he’s crazy. I also expect he’s entertaining to you because his world view is less threatening to yours and you consider him mostly harmless, and thus harmless for Rogan to spend hours giving him access to Rogan’s audience, and that none of that craziness (which is no longer fringe, he is very popular with the president and his base) than other people do. And that’s the argument. But the argument is evidence for the argument. And you’ve been resistant to any evidence against it.
Which is why we aren’t having a reasonable debate. Not be clause we don’t want to or are incapable of it, but because your intention here is not to subject your argument to scrutiny and counter argument and evidence, by us or you. Which means you have another motive for coming in here and engaging this way. And a usual, first you got the counter argument, but pretty soon, in light of no agreement on facts or evidence, you got pushback on the method and the motive. |
There's also the small issue with the evidence that completely contradicts the original argument that it's perfectly fine to give these extremists a platform.
Speaking as a Jew, I can say that antisemitic violence has skyrocketed since 2016. I'm pretty sure that every other minority can say the same. Same goes with mass shootings.
Now, I can't quite put my finger on what happened to change everything in 2016, but something tells me that if you looked up viewership of folks like Jones and Rogan, they might have had a slight uptick around that time that coincides with the increase in violence.
(sorry. I'll edit this post later to throw in enough whataboutism to appeal to those that rely on it for any and all debates) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Omar Little
Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90306
Location: Formerly Known As 24
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
And yes, you see me, because I announce myself coming in. I am from a line of immigrant, working class people. My grandfather marched with MLK. I have a mixed race family. I am a child of people who became fundamentalists and switched to conservatism, and I was born and bred into that and had to find my way out and back to my roots and what I feel is right. I’m a Democrat. Not because they are perfect, but because in a two party system the party that stands for what the GOP does will never be as harmless or helpful as even a flawed organization that stands for what the Democrats do. Im a mainstream liberal. The kind that the center left calls too liberal and the far left calls a centrist.
I don’t pretend to be an independent (because it is pragmatically worthless) or a conservative as cover to make my democratic arguments. I don’t grant a bad argument quarter from friend or foe, but I do separate a level of respect for people who come honestly. And I don’t suffer trolls, unbudging ideologues, and cowards who try to make an argument while not standing behind it. But I would stand and have stood for your right to your beliefs.
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
| kikanga wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | Since longform was requested. I hope this article is suffice. https://tinyurl.com/y3rees5m
This is just one of many excerpts from this that agree with my point.
| Quote: | “China has no rules,” said [Alex] Jones, who was wearing a NASA T-shirt. “They have human-animal hybrids 30 years ago, they’ve got giant human tissue farms. You know, you hear, ‘Oh, your Achilles is torn, we’ve got—grown in a lab—a tendon.’ It’s not a frickin’ tendon grown in a lab. It’s a frickin’ humanoid. These aren’t humans.”
Jones went on for a while—“I bet you $10 million that humanoids are real,” he announced at one point— until Rogan finally cut him off. “I believe you. I believe you,” he said. He clearly didn’t believe him, but the flipside of inviting Jones on a world-famous podcast to say dumb things for five hours is that there are people out there who listened to the episode and did come away believing that humanoids might be real, that the world is controlled by a secret cabal of elites, and that the mainstream media has been giving Alex Jones a raw deal. The resulting episode was thoroughly entertaining and also a bit disturbing. Jones is not just a friendly nut job. He is a purveyor of disinformation to a vast, ill-informed audience, some of whom have been unstable enough to take violent action against some of Jones’ favorite boogeymen. Rogan was sort of letting Jones hang himself with his own rope, but he also clearly wasn’t willing or able to refute some of Jones’ more outlandish points. Instead, he let the man ramble for four hours and 40 minutes. |
|
“Rogan was sort of letting Jones hang himself with his own rope”
You forgot to bold this which supports my point. You and the writer of the article disagree with that strategy. I don’t.
Also, that’s not considered a long form discussion IMO. |
What proof do you have that Rogan's "strategy" works?
The video has 371K upvotes to 14K downvotes. Almost all top comments portray Jones as a truthteller. |
If YouTube comment sections represented society accurately we would be in the middle of world war 137 living in bomb shelters underneath a scorched uninhabitable earth. That podcast was extremely entertaining because Alex Jones is a nut who says crazy things hysterically. My liberal and conservative friends who listened to it all agree with that and is likely why it has far more upvotes. We can enjoy things without believing they are accurate.
What proof do you have it doesn’t? |
Sure the 371K upvotes were just people "entertained". None of those upvotes were people who bought what Jones was selling.
Get him back on! Just the Epstein stuff alone could be a whole podcast.
1.9K
Get him back on the show to talk about Epstein
2.3K
plot twist, alex jones is actually right about everything and hes just the most frustrated person the planet
5.8K
his interview proves why legacy media wants him silenced. 4+ million views in 1 day. Cable news simply can’t compete.
4.2K
How many friends do you have that you are referencing? |
Of course some believe it. But I would bet it’s a very small minority. Doesn’t make me any more ok with ignoring the first amendment and isn’t a convincing argument against letting him speak. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Omar Little wrote: | And that is why we can’t have a reasonable debate. Setting aside the tenet of civility, the most important part of a reasonable debate is an agreement on evidence. The old saying goes you’re entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. And a person making a claim has the obligation to prove it, the other person doesn’t have the obligation to disprove it (although they may).
Here we have the double whammy of not backing up a claim, and then when faced with counter evidence, refusing to acknowledge it. And demanding further evidence, which of course you will not accept either.
I accept you find Alex Jones entertaining. I accept you know he’s crazy. I also expect he’s entertaining to you because his world view is less threatening to yours and you consider him mostly harmless, and thus harmless for Rogan to spend hours giving him access to Rogan’s audience, and that none of that craziness (which is no longer fringe, he is very popular with the president and his base) than other people do. And that’s the argument. But the argument is evidence for the argument. And you’ve been resistant to any evidence against it.
Which is why we aren’t having a reasonable debate. Not be clause we don’t want to or are incapable of it, but because your intention here is not to subject your argument to scrutiny and counter argument and evidence, by us or you. Which means you have another motive for coming in here and engaging this way. And a usual, first you got the counter argument, but pretty soon, in light of no agreement on facts or evidence, you got pushback on the method and the motive. |
What evidence was there that silencing his speech would stop the spread of his ideals? Upvotes? Really? No that’s not evidence. You can continue to assume you know my motives all you want, it doesn’t mean you know what you are talking about. We aren’t having a reasonable discussion because you and many others have extremely closed minded points of view and have somehow convinced yourself you are open minded. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DaMuleRules
Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52654
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| BigGameHames wrote: |
Of course some believe it. But I would bet it’s a very small minority. Doesn’t make me any more ok with ignoring the first amendment and isn’t a convincing argument against letting him speak. |
You should really educate yourself as to what the First Amendment is really about, because none of what you are discussing is a First Amendment issue. No one is talking about having the government interfere with ability of Jones or Rogan or anyone else to speak.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Omar Little wrote: | And yes, you see me, because I announce myself coming in. I am from a line of immigrant, working class people. My grandfather marched with MLK. I have a mixed race family. I am a child of people who became fundamentalists and switched to conservatism, and I was born and bred into that and had to find my way out and back to my roots and what I feel is right. I’m a Democrat. Not because they are perfect, but because in a two party system the party that stands for what the GOP does will never be as harmless or helpful as even a flawed organization that stands for what the Democrats do. Im a mainstream liberal. The kind that the center left calls too liberal and the far left calls a centrist.
I don’t pretend to be an independent (because it is pragmatically worthless) or a conservative as cover to make my democratic arguments. I don’t grant a bad argument quarter from friend or foe, but I do separate a level of respect for people who come honestly. And I don’t suffer trolls, unbudging ideologues, and cowards who try to make an argument while not standing behind it. But I would stand and have stood for your right to your beliefs. |
Ohhhh now I see why you’re so passionate. You feel the need for everybody on here to see how great and righteous you are. Hey everybody, see how virtuous he is! I’m not motivated by other people’s approval on an internet message board. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| DaMuleRules wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: |
Of course some believe it. But I would bet it’s a very small minority. Doesn’t make me any more ok with ignoring the first amendment and isn’t a convincing argument against letting him speak. |
You should really educate yourself as to what the First Amendment is really about, because none of what you are discussing is a First Amendment issue. No one is talking about having the government interfere with ability of Jones or Rogan or anyone else to speak. |
Will do. Thanks for the insight. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
greenfrog
Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011
Posts: 36081
Location: 502 Bad Gateway
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
