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ContagiousInspiration
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Location: Boulder ;)

Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:56 pm Post subject:

If we don't get rid of these criminals our country could be ruined

ContagiousInspiration
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Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:05 pm Post subject:

Quote:

“Did you see the images of officers circulating Photoshopped images of my violent rape?” Ocasio-Cortez asked.

McAleenan said yes.

“Are those officers on the job today and responsible for the safety of migrant women and children?” she pressed.

The acting DHS head wasn’t sure.

“We’ve already put individuals on administrative duties, I don’t know which ones corresponded to which post,” he said.

AOC grills acting Homeland Security chief about ‘rape memes’ she appears in
https://nypost.com/2019/07/18/aoc-grills-acting-homeland-security-chief-about-rape-memes-she-appears-in/

Violent Rape Memes
Death Threats
Trump is afraid of her intelligence and courage so he attacks her and her friends
Pelosi attacks her also

Baron Von Humongous
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Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:26 pm Post subject:

ContagiousInspiration wrote:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

I, too, love to reduce racism down to white people just secretly wanting to use the N-word in public again.

I'm white and my childhood is scarred by Racists dragging a black man behind some (bleep) pickup truck in 1998
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Byrd_Jr.

Cannot imagine how much worse I would feel if I were black and knew there were a bunch of inbreds who thought they were superior to me and wanted to kill me

Notice in that wiki page how (bleep) up our prisons are.. sigh.. people go in and are forced to join psycho gangs to protect their life.. Great way to reform people

A horrific crime I remember well growing up during that time. Even if I have some concerns about the efficacy of hate crime legislation, it's heartening that such a vile crime perpetrated by racist thugs ultimately spurred a broad policy response intended to curb targeted violence against vulnerable minorities in America.

Because racism is a structural problem embedded in U.S. institutions at all levels that requires broad policy-based solutions to begin to fix the centuries-long rot in our national foundations. Even as naming and shaming racists and bigots in our communities is a net positive, we'll always run into disingenuous poltroons like ringfinger who want to reduce racism to an atomized malady hidden in the shadowed, unknowable recesses of a racist's swiss cheese brain. I want to see racism excised like a cancer from every American's heart and I want all racist, homophobic, transphobic, Islamophobic, and misogynistic violence (all violence) to end, but that's a utopic end goal likely impossible to perfect whereas discrimination in housing, schooling, penal sentencing, health outcomes, hiring practices, etc. are material problems that can be addressed through policymaking right now. And legitimate equality of opportunity and outcome addressed through federal and state policies could reduce the hate in the hearts of some younger folks as the bile-filled Boomer bigots like Trump die off and leave the world a better place. Seeing more people of color, more women, more gay and trans and disabled Americans treated with equal legal dignity and in positions of socioeconomic and political power certainly won't hurt efforts to normalize acceptance and tolerance in this and future generations.

But at the end of the day I don't really care if racists stew in their toxic brew of self-loathing, fear, and cruelty their entire miserable, likely worthless lives. I can empathize and wish they would take needed steps to change, but I can't really change them. You can't really change them. That's a hateful white person problem and expending so much energy trying to reform the hearts of all of America's bigots is sheer white narcissism. Getting bogged down in armchair psychoanalysis over the racist intent behind every publiic figure's every utterance with bad faith actors like ringfinger is a waste of everyone's energy, imo (obviously I'm not telling you how to use your time, it's just an example). When school segregation is backsliding towards the apartheid South as Joe Biden defends (and later apologizes for) his votes against bussing; while black mothers are 2 to 6 times more likely to die during pregnancy and childbirth than white women; when Eric Garner's murderer wears a badge and gets off scott free; those are all products of sysyemic racism that can't be addressed by shaming every American racist out there one by one (especially when many of them don't seem to care). It's just inefficient.

Of course, identifying powerful bigots and removing them from the levers of power is helpful in reducing impediments to necessary structural reform, but it's insufficient. Nancy Pelosi can engage in rhetoric that aligns the structural power of her station and her white privilege against a group of minority women without herself being a racist in her heart of hearts because racism is a system of discriminatory disempowerment that goes beyond each individual's personal beliefs. A lot of folks in the U.S. don't want to get that because it would implicate them - rightfully - in benefitting from systemic racism and hatred, which would make them uncomfortable, and because it allows people at the apex of ethnic, racial, gendered, etc. heirarchies to not have to face (let alone put effort into) meaningful structural change. It's a whole lot easier for the racists and racism apologists and all the beneficiaries of America's historic and present structural bigotry (myself included) to debate fruitlessly online over whether or not Chris Pratt says the N-word in his head every night after a couple of whiskey sours.
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Omar Little
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Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:57 pm Post subject:

Ted wrote:

There's dirt on Lindsey, that's why the 180. He's gotta play the game now or his career is ruined.

There’s an old saw about the only thing a politician can’t survive is being caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy. Let’s just say with Lindsey it is not a dead girl.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel

Omar Little
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Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:04 pm Post subject:

kikanga wrote:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

governator wrote:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

kikanga wrote:

Oh my goodness. It appears the President of the United States committed a crime! I'm gonna have to sit down for a while. This news is shocking.

Quote:

According to the files, phone records showed that Cohen had calls with Trump, then-Trump campaign press secretary Hope Hicks, AMI CEO David Pecker, and AMI Chief Content Officer Dylan Howard at a key point in the 2016 campaign. (Hicks, who also served as White House communications director, is now the executive vice president and chief communications officer for Fox Corporation. Fox News is a subsidiary of Fox Corporation.)

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/michael-cohen-probe-court-files

I'm quoting Fox News because the bolded makes me laugh.

Maybe the House should start an impeachment inquiry or something.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/17/politics/trump-impeachment-house-vote/index.html

(CNN)The House on Wednesday easily defeated an effort from a Texas Democrat to impeach President Donald Trump in a vote that highlighted the Democratic fissures when it comes to impeachment.

Rep. Al Green was able to force the vote under House rules — the first that Congress has taken related to impeachment since Democrats took control of the chamber this year — in what amounted to the most direct challenge yet to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's handling of impeachment.
The 332-95 vote divided Democrats, with 95 — a little more than 40% of the Democratic caucus -- voting against tabling it, or voting to keep it alive. There were 137 Democrats who joined all Republicans in voting to defeat the measure.

That was a vote for impeachment not to open an impeachment inquiry/hold impeachment hearings. If Pelosi gave the signal, I bet you'd see 200+ votes pretty quickly.

If an impeachment inquiry doesn't start after the Mueller testimony this month. I doubt it ever will. But as long as we keep the House in 2020 so we can write strongly worded letters to President Trump. I guess it'll be worth it.

This is kind of like the Susan Sarandon position on the presidency. Lose the house along with the White House and senate in 2020 and then get back to me about it not mattering.
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kikanga
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:43 am Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:

This is kind of like the Susan Sarandon position on the presidency. Lose the house along with the White House and senate in 2020 and then get back to me about it not mattering.

I'm glad we have the House. Who knows what type of policy a Republican Congress would pass. I shudder at the thought. But that's not enough.

Up to this point, has Trump's impeachable actions been checked at all with our control of the House?

We have administration members like Hope Hicks and Kellyanne Conway laughing at the House's subpoenas. Not a good look. You can only wag your finger so much.
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vanexelent
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:47 am Post subject:

kikanga wrote:

Omar Little wrote:

This is kind of like the Susan Sarandon position on the presidency. Lose the house along with the White House and senate in 2020 and then get back to me about it not mattering.

They had the House for two years of this administration and failed to implement Trump's biggest agenda: repealing Obamacare and building a wall.

ribeye
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:19 am Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:

Fwiw, you have people within your own party saying the same thing. If you still arent confused by what I said at least go read what they have to say.

There is no one in the Democratic Party who is saying the same thing as you. There is no way one could get elected if their command of the language, their ability to communicate, their willingness to substantiate views with examples, was so ineffective.
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DaMuleRules
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:34 am Post subject:

ribeye wrote:

ringfinger wrote:

Fwiw, you have people within your own party saying the same thing. If you still arent confused by what I said at least go read what they have to say.

You may not speak the same language as our "friend" rf, but you're pretty effective at communicating the point.

_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames

Jason Isbell

Man, do those lyrics resonate right now

Omar Little
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:44 am Post subject:

kikanga wrote:

Omar Little wrote:

This is kind of like the Susan Sarandon position on the presidency. Lose the house along with the White House and senate in 2020 and then get back to me about it not mattering.

I agree with you. And with a republican senate, that is what impeachment is. With some foot stomping as well. As I have said before, I am for whatever gets them out of office as quickly as possible. As of now I don’t believe that’s impeachment because it won’t get them out and I haven’t seen the indications that it will move the electorate. Let’s see what Mueller’s testimony does.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel

DaMuleRules
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:54 am Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:

kikanga wrote:

Omar Little wrote:

This is kind of like the Susan Sarandon position on the presidency. Lose the house along with the White House and senate in 2020 and then get back to me about it not mattering.

That's the bottomline. I understand the idea that some have expressed in regards to "doing the right thing" and that's a worthy position. But as a strategy with a potential for a pyrrhic victory, it's one that needs to be utilized wisely and not just out of a sense of duty.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames

Jason Isbell

Man, do those lyrics resonate right now

Omar Little
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Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90306
Location: Formerly Known As 24

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:58 am Post subject:

There’s a nexus where morality meets reality. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel

ribeye
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Joined: 10 Nov 2001
Posts: 12632

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:10 am Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:

kikanga wrote:

Omar Little wrote:

This is kind of like the Susan Sarandon position on the presidency. Lose the house along with the White House and senate in 2020 and then get back to me about it not mattering.

Yes, I agree. But what also must be factored is all the obstruction by the White House and now Barr, that is impeding investigations. Where others disagree with Pelosi, which seems to have merit, is that an impeachment inquiry adds more weight towards ending that obstruction.

Here is a good read on that very subject:

https://www.justsecurity.org/64318/how-impeachment-proceedings-would-strengthen-congresss-investigatory-powers/
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Omar Little
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:30 am Post subject:

ribeye wrote:

Omar Little wrote:

kikanga wrote:

Omar Little wrote:

This is kind of like the Susan Sarandon position on the presidency. Lose the house along with the White House and senate in 2020 and then get back to me about it not mattering.

Yes, I’ve read and heard a lot on this subject, with arguments either way, and I am waiting to see a court ruling on existing subpoenas. I also have a tremendous amount of faith in Ms. Pelosi for two reasons:

1. I know she will and has placed doing the right thing at the highest level. She willingly gave up her majority to pass Obamacare. And got dozens of members to put their seats at risk.

2. She has thus far been right on about political strategy. She devised the strategy that the people who currently are clamoring for impeachment thought was a mistake, and she won in remarkably red districts. Those districts are back in play in 2020, as is the senate, which will he won or lost in very purple places. She playing a very high level strategy and she’s been nails at it. There is a reason the GOP and Trump are desperate to pick their own faces of the Democratic Party.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel

jodeke
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:33 am Post subject:

The Man Who Predicted the Collapse of GM, Fannie Mae, and Freddie Mac… Reveals America’s Next Big Bankruptcy—and How it Will Affect You LINK _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.

ribeye
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:40 am Post subject:

Anyone ever have a discussion about whether we should have a small government or a large one? Yeah, so have I. Anyone ever have a conversation about the evils of plutocracy, especially the power wielded by many of our multi-national corporations? Yeah, so have I Here is a really concise answer by Marianne Williamson (that interesting candidate on the far left of the stage in the first debates) to a point about the desire for a smaller government, so that we, instead, can do the things that government does. By the way, earlier in this video, the host claims to be a liberal. His question is straight, textbook conservatism, at its core. The question and answer begins at about 15:12 and lasts a little over 3 minutes. https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/7/19/1872967/-Marianne-Williamson-Masterfully-Dismantles-Right-Wing-Talking-Points _________________ "A metronome keeps time by using a Ringo"

angrypuppy
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:37 am Post subject:

jodeke wrote:

The Man Who Predicted the Collapse of GM, Fannie Mae, and Freddie Mac…

Reveals America’s Next Big Bankruptcy—and How it Will Affect You

LINK

Gold Bug and cryptocurrency hype, I've seen it for decades now.

But for what it's worth, there is a crisis brewing. The Dems blew the 2016 election over it, and I posted about it several times back in the day. There's a large population that used to be achieve middle class incomes without anything more than a high school diploma, if even that. Those jobs went overseas, meaning older generation was laid-off, and the younger generation with few prospects of earning a middle class income. There's anger within a large mass of voters who feel that the politicians have sold them out. Think Weimar Republic's struggles and the catastrophic result.

There will be two extremes, and neither is palatable. One is the Trump solution, which is to resort to blaming others who don't share his European ancestry, which is a salve for the fools rather than a cure. The other extreme is to promise all things to everyone, an almost embarrassing attempt to purchase the votes. There are short-term solutions, but they all slay golden calves. The federal government needs to address pharma prices, healthcare, and tax policy. They also need to define our strategic goals which drive military spending. Last, the politicos need to address whether those decades of short-term boosts to GNP and corporate profits where worth the abandonment of our industrial sector, let alone whether that sector is worth resurrecting in the face of technological advancement. We cannot keep spending and issuing debt without short and long term means of sustaining our revenue base of our republic. Neither a populist nor Trump fascism address the root causes of our problems, nor offer realistic long-term solutions.

kikanga
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:29 am Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:

kikanga wrote:

Omar Little wrote:

This is kind of like the Susan Sarandon position on the presidency. Lose the house along with the White House and senate in 2020 and then get back to me about it not mattering.

I don't understand the argument that says impeachment is finger wagging and foot stomping but Pelosi's statement about Trump being racist isn't. Same goes for the subpoenas that the House aren't enforcing.
I also disagree with the assumption that impeachment hurts the Dems Presidential and Senate elections in 2020. Without impeachment you risk having a lower turnout within the Dem party.
I think that's why Warren and Kamala support impeachment proceedings.
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Omar Little
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:46 am Post subject:

kikanga wrote:

Omar Little wrote:

kikanga wrote:

Omar Little wrote:

This is kind of like the Susan Sarandon position on the presidency. Lose the house along with the White House and senate in 2020 and then get back to me about it not mattering.

LOL, that's funny. You point out that what they are doing now is finger waving, and that you want impeachment, and I point out that impeachment is just effectively MORE finger waving, and you reply by asking me if what they are doing now isn't finger waving? The difference is impeachment could have actual, quantifiable negatives (or positives, depending on context, and that's the argument about should we and when should we)

And get back to me when either Harris or Warren has run an effective nationwide campaign like Pelosi just did, precisely winning those house seats in red and purple districts because she chose NOT to go with impeachment as a rallying cry. And that is going to be in play in battleground states both for Senate races and the presidential one, and it's going to matter in the house again too.

Not impeaching is not going to drive down Democratic votes, and no one worth their salt is going to tell you they will. Trump still being in office in 2020 is not going to be fine to people in the Democratic party. The actual argument is that impeachment might educate non affiliated voters, but that's a somewhat tenuous one too.
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kikanga
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:21 pm Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:

kikanga wrote:

Omar Little wrote:

kikanga wrote:

Omar Little wrote:

This is kind of like the Susan Sarandon position on the presidency. Lose the house along with the White House and senate in 2020 and then get back to me about it not mattering.

So if I'm understanding you correctly. You're saying Pelosi's statement calling Trump racist and not enforcing subpoenas has no quantifiable positives or negatives? I don't know what you're basing that on. And even if that were true, why issue the statement or subpoenas in the first place?

Also your assumption that not impeaching will have 0 effect on Democrat turnout is based on what?
This was written Oct 2018. A month before the blue wave.

Quote:

For Democrats, the first issue by far is health care, cited by 14 percent in response to the open-ended question. Civil rights/gender equality is second, followed by views of Trump.
...
The fierce divide over Trump could make it difficult to build bipartisan coalitions to pass legislation on any issue over the next two years. By more than 20 percentage points, 56-35 percent, voters say they want to elect a Congress that mostly stands up to Trump rather than one that mostly cooperates with him. There is a predictable partisan divide on that question, but notably independents by more than 4-1 prefer a Congress that stands up to the president, 69-16 percent.

...
An overwhelming 69 percent of Democrats say Trump should be impeached.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2018/10/25/poll-midterm-elections-donald-trump-democrats/1742432002/

I understand the polls for impeachment have changed since then. I'm just pointing out what energized the blue wave.

I don't think Warren or Harris support impeachment proceedings because they are ignorant. I think they are both informed on the topic. They just have different priorities than Pelosi. Pelosi needs to win purple districts. Presidential candidates and Senators need to win states.
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kikanga
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:35 pm Post subject:

There is a happy medium between impeaching. And only writing strongly worded statements and having your subpoenas laughed at. I strongly believe 2018 voters expected more push back on Trump then we've seen from the House up to this point. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”

ribeye
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:50 pm Post subject:

kikanga wrote:

There is a happy medium between impeaching. And only writing strongly worded statements and having your subpoenas laughed at. I strongly believe 2018 voters expected more push back on Trump then we've seen from the House up to this point.

I agree with both of you--that the voters expected more and will be unhappy, and that Pelosi has a better finger on the pulse of America and what it takes to win than we do.

I am probably more unhappy about not impeaching than I would be with impeachment, but I feel I and we must trust Pelosi. If we don't impeach AND lose the House . . . I can't begin to express how devastating it will be and how much further the country will sink into this hell-hole Trump and the Republicans have created, and how much longer it will take to bring the country back.
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ringfinger
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:54 pm Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:

ribeye wrote:

ringfinger wrote:

Fwiw, you have people within your own party saying the same thing. If you still arent confused by what I said at least go read what they have to say.

You may not speak the same language as our "friend" rf, but you're pretty effective at communicating the point.

Not really sure how to respond to these personal comments. Maybe it’s my cue to leave. But I never said anything about either of you in this discussion.

All I did was respond to one post that said the best strategy would be to push harder to the left and I, to my mistake, replied and urged them to reconsider that position (for the reasons I gave).

I would like the mods to consider changing this thread to the Democratic Political Thread or Leftists Thread and allowing for a separate Centrist/Conservatives Thread or you can all it The Others Political Thread or even Alt-ish Right Thread if you want. But give moderates, centrists, and conservatives a place that allows for more diverse thoughts and ideas on politics (kind of like when you made two DLo threads).

It’s like a woke contest in here, and it is clearly a challenge to discuss different ideas without people getting emotional and personal.

ribeye
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:14 pm Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:

DaMuleRules wrote:

ribeye wrote:

ringfinger wrote:

Fwiw, you have people within your own party saying the same thing. If you still arent confused by what I said at least go read what they have to say.

You may not speak the same language as our "friend" rf, but you're pretty effective at communicating the point.

When you come in here and spout off with obscure and enigmatic bits of vagueness and refuse to back up whatever it is you're trying to say with, that's up to you to find out, people lose their patience. I tried and tried and tried, and all I got was a run around, and a never-ending chase in circles.

It is really not that hard: If you make a point, back it up with substance.
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kikanga
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:15 pm Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:

It’s like a woke contest in here, and it is clearly a challenge to discuss different ideas without people getting emotional and personal.

Given the stakes of the ideas being discussed. I think it's asking alot for people to be unemotional.
I agree we shouldn't attack posters and instead attack posts. I could do a better job of that myself. And I will.

Your concern about "wokeness" is concerning. Because your focused on a symptom (wokeness) and not the disease (Trump). It's like complaining about people coughing and ignoring an epidemic.
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