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kikanga
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 Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:45 am Post subject: |
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Trump is the logical progression of 21st Century American conservatism.
He's 1980s Reagan without the window dressing. It's been a long time since Dems portrayed Republicans further right then they really are. I look forward to the day that happens again. In actuallity we keep giving "Conservatives", "moderates' and "independents" the benefit of the doubt. To our detriment.
If now isn't the best time for bold progressive policy, there will never be a good time.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:49 am Post subject: |
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I bet there is a person in this thread who could call out the racism in Ronald Reagan conservatism. And up to this point, I would wave that person off as an extremist.
Really speaks to every high school teacher's message.
"Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it."
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:05 am Post subject: |
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The point is this is despicable and the people who are doing it are despicable. |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:35 am Post subject: |
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Here's a thread detailing the backgrounds of the "GOP women voters" that CNN featured on their panel. They are all pro-Trump partisans who run pro-Trump groups. One of them runs a group called the "Trumpettes." So this matters because CNN presents them as "these GOP women see nothing wrong with Trump's comments." These are not random GOP women. They are pro-Trump political activists. If you want to put them on a panel, that's fine. But then tell the viewers they are a group of pro-Trump activists.
https://twitter.com/ParkerMolloy/status/1151510556878225414
Here are some approval/disapproval numbers from a USA today poll. Even a plurality of Republicans thought his tweets were racist (45%-34%):
| Quote: | USA Today poll:
68% believe Trump’s tweets were offensive
59% believe Trump’s tweets are “un-American”
65% believe what Trump said is racist, including a plurality of Republicans (45-34%) |
So putting on a panel of all pro-Trump women who 100% support his racist comments without mentioning their backgrounds is extremely bad journalism and dangerous. It's dangerous because they are helping spread unfiltered Trump propaganda to viewers without it being labeled as such.
Things are already bad enough without the media making it worse a la 2016. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:38 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | Trump is the logical progression of 21st Century American conservatism.
He's 1980s Reagan without the window dressing. It's been a long time since Dems portrayed Republicans further right then they really are. I look forward to the day that happens again. In actuallity we keep giving "Conservatives", "moderates' and "independents" the benefit of the doubt. To our detriment.
If now isn't the best time for bold progressive policy, there will never be a good time. |
Disagree. He is the manifestation of overly rapid progressivism IMO.
Newton’s third law, essentially.
Progressivism is good. It just has to be natural, and it must allow for a learning curve or it will be abandoned. |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:53 am Post subject: |
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Blaming right-wing extremest nuttery, racism and bigotry on "progressivism" is ridiculous. They haven't had enough time since the Civil War? The 60's civil rights movement? How much time do they need to be coddled and catered to until their fear and hatred magically dissolves because progress stood still and stopped putting pressure on them?
They are not the majority. The rest of us are tired of being ruled by a small group of hateful, ignorant, fearful people who want the live in an idealized past. Sorry, (bleep) that.
Do "conservatives" ever worry that they are offending and hurting others that don't believe the way they do? No. They seek to enforce their dogma on all, with no regrets and no concerns for how it's received or for it's negative effects.
Time for a new playbook. The playbook where the majority participates because they are motivated by exciting new possibilities and outvotes the neanderthals. |
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governator
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:54 am Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | Here's a thread detailing the backgrounds of the "GOP women voters" that CNN featured on their panel. They are all pro-Trump partisans who run pro-Trump groups. One of them runs a group called the "Trumpettes." So this matters because CNN presents them as "these GOP women see nothing wrong with Trump's comments." These are not random GOP women. They are pro-Trump political activists. If you want to put them on a panel, that's fine. But then tell the viewers they are a group of pro-Trump activists.
https://twitter.com/ParkerMolloy/status/1151510556878225414
Here are some approval/disapproval numbers from a USA today poll. Even a plurality of Republicans thought his tweets were racist (45%-34%):
| Quote: | USA Today poll:
68% believe Trump’s tweets were offensive
59% believe Trump’s tweets are “un-American”
65% believe what Trump said is racist, including a plurality of Republicans (45-34%) |
So putting on a panel of all pro-Trump women who 100% support his racist comments without mentioning their backgrounds is extremely bad journalism and dangerous. It's dangerous because they are helping spread unfiltered Trump propaganda to viewers without it being labeled as such.
Things are already bad enough without the media making it worse a la 2016. |
those women might also be a pretty accurate representation of GOP base in general
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-poll/republican-support-for-trump-rises-after-racially-charged-tweets-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKCN1UB2UD
The national survey, conducted on Monday and Tuesday after Trump told the lawmakers they should “go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came,” showed his net approval among members of his Republican Party rose by 5 percentage points to 72%, compared with a similar poll that ran last week. |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:05 am Post subject: |
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| I've seen all the polls. I know most R's still support Trump and I think it's despicable. That's a separate issue. I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing that what CNN did was deceptive. The media has a responsibility to be as transparent as possible. They weren't. /end |
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governator
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:18 am Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | I've seen all the polls. I know most R's still support Trump and I think it's despicable. That's a separate issue. I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing that what CNN did was deceptive. The media has a responsibility to be as transparent as possible. They weren't. /end |
Ah, got it. CNN does have to label them correctly |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:33 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Hillary Clinton Verified account @HillaryClinton
Democracy may be our birthright as Americans, but it’s not something we can ever take for granted.
Every generation has to fight for it.
After last night's Trump rally, it's clearer than ever that the time has come again.
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*And don't bother telling me she should stay quiet, or shut up, or go away. She's been speaking out on important issues for 30 years and she's not going to stop now. And if there was ever a time for senior members of the Democratic party to speak up, the time is now. |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:45 am Post subject: |
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Boston Globe - John Kerry: Trump can’t hold a candle to Ayanna Pressley
| Quote: | Of course President Trump’s comments about Representative Ayanna Pressley are racist. But even more revolting is his defense: pretending he’s not attacking her race, but rather her lack of patriotism. Pressley’s entire life has been a story of patriotism: loving her country so much that she wanted to help America live up to its ideals.
A strong woman raised in public housing by a fearless mother who sacrificed to keep her safe? An activist who found in Boston a life of public service and a determination to speak up for people who were underrepresented? That story identifies as more “American” than any mantle this president could ever claim. No wonder Donald Trump is afraid of her. |
She worked for Kerry before she was on the Boston city council. |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:51 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | Trump is the logical progression of 21st Century American conservatism.
He's 1980s Reagan without the window dressing. It's been a long time since Dems portrayed Republicans further right then they really are. I look forward to the day that happens again. In actuallity we keep giving "Conservatives", "moderates' and "independents" the benefit of the doubt. To our detriment.
If now isn't the best time for bold progressive policy, there will never be a good time. |
Disagree. He is the manifestation of overly rapid progressivism IMO.
Newton’s third law, essentially.
Progressivism is good. It just has to be natural, and it must allow for a learning curve or it will be abandoned. |
Are you saying that he, being Trump, is a manifestation of the rapid progressivism of Obama, or Clinton, both of whom governed more from the middle than the left? The one progressive development from both was Obamacare, largely modeled on Romney's health care plan and other ideas originally proposed by Republicans.
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ribeye
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:20 am Post subject: |
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George Will interview by Ezra Klein
I've only read the beginning of this, but it is most fascinating. Will is one of few remaining rational theorists on conservatism around but as he explains his points regarding conservatism, and I try to tie them to the reality of applied conservatism and the Reagan Revolution and beyond, I find there appears to be little reconciliation between theory and reality.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:22 am Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | Blaming right-wing extremest nuttery, racism and bigotry on "progressivism" is ridiculous. They haven't had enough time since the Civil War? The 60's civil rights movement? How much time do they need to be coddled and catered to until their fear and hatred magically dissolves because progress stood still and stopped putting pressure on them?
They are not the majority. The rest of us are tired of being ruled by a small group of hateful, ignorant, fearful people who want the live in an idealized past. Sorry, (bleep) that.
Do "conservatives" ever worry that they are offending and hurting others that don't believe the way they do? No. They seek to enforce their dogma on all, with no regrets and no concerns for how it's received or for it's negative effects.
Time for a new playbook. The playbook where the majority participates because they are motivated by exciting new possibilities and outvotes the neanderthals. |
The 60s Civil Rights Movement is a great example, I’m glad you brought it up.
That’s what leftists in particular, are trying to replicate across every single issue and at light speed.
You can’t do it like that across everything. I have been saying here, pre-Trump, if you approach social change this way, you will exacerbate the reverse. I have been pleading to stop using our immutable characteristics as a weapon because it will create division. Same response years later and oh, shocker, we are more divisive.
The people trying to engineer social change, have no clue how to do it. |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:27 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | Blaming right-wing extremest nuttery, racism and bigotry on "progressivism" is ridiculous. They haven't had enough time since the Civil War? The 60's civil rights movement? How much time do they need to be coddled and catered to until their fear and hatred magically dissolves because progress stood still and stopped putting pressure on them?
They are not the majority. The rest of us are tired of being ruled by a small group of hateful, ignorant, fearful people who want the live in an idealized past. Sorry, (bleep) that.
Do "conservatives" ever worry that they are offending and hurting others that don't believe the way they do? No. They seek to enforce their dogma on all, with no regrets and no concerns for how it's received or for it's negative effects.
Time for a new playbook. The playbook where the majority participates because they are motivated by exciting new possibilities and outvotes the neanderthals. |
The 60s Civil Rights Movement is a great example, I’m glad you brought it up.
That’s what leftists in particular, are trying to replicate across every single issue and at light speed.
You can’t do it like that across everything. I have been saying here, pre-Trump, if you approach social change this way, you will exacerbate the reverse. I have been pleading to stop using our immutable characteristics as a weapon because it will create division. Same response years later and oh, shocker, we are more divisive.
The people trying to engineer social change, have no clue how to do it. |
So, asking that gays can marry or serve their country, and not be discriminated against, or brutally bullied, is too rapid a social change? Or what exactly?
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"A metronome keeps time by using a Ringo"
Last edited by ribeye on Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:30 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | Trump is the logical progression of 21st Century American conservatism.
He's 1980s Reagan without the window dressing. It's been a long time since Dems portrayed Republicans further right then they really are. I look forward to the day that happens again. In actuallity we keep giving "Conservatives", "moderates' and "independents" the benefit of the doubt. To our detriment.
If now isn't the best time for bold progressive policy, there will never be a good time. |
Disagree. He is the manifestation of overly rapid progressivism IMO.
Newton’s third law, essentially.
Progressivism is good. It just has to be natural, and it must allow for a learning curve or it will be abandoned. |
Are you saying that he, being Trump, is a manifestation of the rapid progressivism of Obama, or Clinton, both of whom governed more from the middle than the left? The one progressive development from both was Obamacare, largely modeled on Romney's health care plan and other ideas originally proposed by Republicans. |
No, I’m saying Trump is a manifestation of, essentially, political correctness run amok (among other things).
We used to say, “this thing/policy you think is bad, is actually good” and over time, more and more people agreed it was good and that’s how progress was made.
Now, we say, “this thing/policy you think is bad, makes you a bad person and even if you change your mind, you thought it once and so you are permanently a bad person”. In most cases, that is not going to cause someone to say “youre right i am a bad person” it’s going to cause them to say “(bleep) you”
And that is basically what people are saying to each other now. It isn’t rocket science and yet, it shocks me how few people (on both sides) gets that. Trump is the (bleep) you, essentially. Akin to the concept of mutually assured destruction. |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:32 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | Trump is the logical progression of 21st Century American conservatism.
He's 1980s Reagan without the window dressing. It's been a long time since Dems portrayed Republicans further right then they really are. I look forward to the day that happens again. In actuallity we keep giving "Conservatives", "moderates' and "independents" the benefit of the doubt. To our detriment.
If now isn't the best time for bold progressive policy, there will never be a good time. |
Disagree. He is the manifestation of overly rapid progressivism IMO.
Newton’s third law, essentially.
Progressivism is good. It just has to be natural, and it must allow for a learning curve or it will be abandoned. |
Are you saying that he, being Trump, is a manifestation of the rapid progressivism of Obama, or Clinton, both of whom governed more from the middle than the left? The one progressive development from both was Obamacare, largely modeled on Romney's health care plan and other ideas originally proposed by Republicans. |
No, I’m saying Trump is a manifestation of, essentially, political correctness run amok (among other things).
We used to say, “this thing/policy you think is bad, is actually good” and over time, more and more people agreed it was good and that’s how progress was made.
Now, we say, “this thing/policy you think is bad, makes you a bad person and even if you change your mind, you thought it once and so you are permanently a bad person”. In most cases, that is not going to cause someone to say “youre right i am a bad person” it’s going to cause them to say “(bleep) you”
And that is basically what people are saying to each other now. It isn’t rocket science and yet, it shocks me how few people (on both sides) gets that. Trump is the (bleep) you, essentially. Akin to the concept of mutually assured destruction. |
You continue to talk in generalities. It would be helpful to understand you if you cited some specifics.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | Blaming right-wing extremest nuttery, racism and bigotry on "progressivism" is ridiculous. They haven't had enough time since the Civil War? The 60's civil rights movement? How much time do they need to be coddled and catered to until their fear and hatred magically dissolves because progress stood still and stopped putting pressure on them?
They are not the majority. The rest of us are tired of being ruled by a small group of hateful, ignorant, fearful people who want the live in an idealized past. Sorry, (bleep) that.
Do "conservatives" ever worry that they are offending and hurting others that don't believe the way they do? No. They seek to enforce their dogma on all, with no regrets and no concerns for how it's received or for it's negative effects.
Time for a new playbook. The playbook where the majority participates because they are motivated by exciting new possibilities and outvotes the neanderthals. |
The 60s Civil Rights Movement is a great example, I’m glad you brought it up.
That’s what leftists in particular, are trying to replicate across every single issue and at light speed.
You can’t do it like that across everything. I have been saying here, pre-Trump, if you approach social change this way, you will exacerbate the reverse. I have been pleading to stop using our immutable characteristics as a weapon because it will create division. Same response years later and oh, shocker, we are more divisive.
The people trying to engineer social change, have no clue how to do it. |
So, asking that gays can marry or serve their country, and not be discriminated against is too rapid a social change? Or what exactly? |
If you said 30 years ago, if you don’t think gays can marry you are a nazi... the progress would never have been made.
Think about how we got the progress that we did. It was incremental. With occasional big moments that helped move that progress along.
But now everyone wants to be a change agent. They just dont know how to do it very well. Everyone wants to be the next Civil Rights Movement. You don’t make a Civil Rights Movement — those movements are the byproduct of pushing progress in organic fashion. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | Trump is the logical progression of 21st Century American conservatism.
He's 1980s Reagan without the window dressing. It's been a long time since Dems portrayed Republicans further right then they really are. I look forward to the day that happens again. In actuallity we keep giving "Conservatives", "moderates' and "independents" the benefit of the doubt. To our detriment.
If now isn't the best time for bold progressive policy, there will never be a good time. |
Disagree. He is the manifestation of overly rapid progressivism IMO.
Newton’s third law, essentially.
Progressivism is good. It just has to be natural, and it must allow for a learning curve or it will be abandoned. |
If by overly rapid progressivism you mean we elected a black president and there are growing numbers of brown people in this country.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | Trump is the logical progression of 21st Century American conservatism.
He's 1980s Reagan without the window dressing. It's been a long time since Dems portrayed Republicans further right then they really are. I look forward to the day that happens again. In actuallity we keep giving "Conservatives", "moderates' and "independents" the benefit of the doubt. To our detriment.
If now isn't the best time for bold progressive policy, there will never be a good time. |
Disagree. He is the manifestation of overly rapid progressivism IMO.
Newton’s third law, essentially.
Progressivism is good. It just has to be natural, and it must allow for a learning curve or it will be abandoned. |
Are you saying that he, being Trump, is a manifestation of the rapid progressivism of Obama, or Clinton, both of whom governed more from the middle than the left? The one progressive development from both was Obamacare, largely modeled on Romney's health care plan and other ideas originally proposed by Republicans. |
No, I’m saying Trump is a manifestation of, essentially, political correctness run amok (among other things).
We used to say, “this thing/policy you think is bad, is actually good” and over time, more and more people agreed it was good and that’s how progress was made.
Now, we say, “this thing/policy you think is bad, makes you a bad person and even if you change your mind, you thought it once and so you are permanently a bad person”. In most cases, that is not going to cause someone to say “youre right i am a bad person” it’s going to cause them to say “(bleep) you”
And that is basically what people are saying to each other now. It isn’t rocket science and yet, it shocks me how few people (on both sides) gets that. Trump is the (bleep) you, essentially. Akin to the concept of mutually assured destruction. |
You continue to talk in generalities. It would be helpful to understand you if you cited some specifics. |
Honestly... its hard to talk in specifics. I can bring up one specific example and the response will be “because this happened to that person Trump happened?”
It’s death by a thousand cuts. Think of it that way. |
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ribeye
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Joined: 10 Nov 2001
Posts: 12632
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | Blaming right-wing extremest nuttery, racism and bigotry on "progressivism" is ridiculous. They haven't had enough time since the Civil War? The 60's civil rights movement? How much time do they need to be coddled and catered to until their fear and hatred magically dissolves because progress stood still and stopped putting pressure on them?
They are not the majority. The rest of us are tired of being ruled by a small group of hateful, ignorant, fearful people who want the live in an idealized past. Sorry, (bleep) that.
Do "conservatives" ever worry that they are offending and hurting others that don't believe the way they do? No. They seek to enforce their dogma on all, with no regrets and no concerns for how it's received or for it's negative effects.
Time for a new playbook. The playbook where the majority participates because they are motivated by exciting new possibilities and outvotes the neanderthals. |
The 60s Civil Rights Movement is a great example, I’m glad you brought it up.
That’s what leftists in particular, are trying to replicate across every single issue and at light speed.
You can’t do it like that across everything. I have been saying here, pre-Trump, if you approach social change this way, you will exacerbate the reverse. I have been pleading to stop using our immutable characteristics as a weapon because it will create division. Same response years later and oh, shocker, we are more divisive.
The people trying to engineer social change, have no clue how to do it. |
So, asking that gays can marry or serve their country, and not be discriminated against is too rapid a social change? Or what exactly? |
If you said 30 years ago, if you don’t think gays can marry you are a nazi... the progress would never have been made.
Think about how we got the progress that we did. It was incremental. With occasional big moments that helped move that progress along.
But now everyone wants to be a change agent. They just dont know how to do it very well. Everyone wants to be the next Civil Rights Movement. You don’t make a Civil Rights Movement — those movements are the byproduct of pushing progress in organic fashion. |
I'm fairly certain this was said 30 years ago just as whatever it is that bugs you was said recently. Isolated examples such as this, don't represent the totality of any progressive movements, but do represent the rhetoric of the frustrated.
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"A metronome keeps time by using a Ringo" |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:42 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | Trump is the logical progression of 21st Century American conservatism.
He's 1980s Reagan without the window dressing. It's been a long time since Dems portrayed Republicans further right then they really are. I look forward to the day that happens again. In actuallity we keep giving "Conservatives", "moderates' and "independents" the benefit of the doubt. To our detriment.
If now isn't the best time for bold progressive policy, there will never be a good time. |
Disagree. He is the manifestation of overly rapid progressivism IMO.
Newton’s third law, essentially.
Progressivism is good. It just has to be natural, and it must allow for a learning curve or it will be abandoned. |
Are you saying that he, being Trump, is a manifestation of the rapid progressivism of Obama, or Clinton, both of whom governed more from the middle than the left? The one progressive development from both was Obamacare, largely modeled on Romney's health care plan and other ideas originally proposed by Republicans. |
No, I’m saying Trump is a manifestation of, essentially, political correctness run amok (among other things).
We used to say, “this thing/policy you think is bad, is actually good” and over time, more and more people agreed it was good and that’s how progress was made.
Now, we say, “this thing/policy you think is bad, makes you a bad person and even if you change your mind, you thought it once and so you are permanently a bad person”. In most cases, that is not going to cause someone to say “youre right i am a bad person” it’s going to cause them to say “(bleep) you”
And that is basically what people are saying to each other now. It isn’t rocket science and yet, it shocks me how few people (on both sides) gets that. Trump is the (bleep) you, essentially. Akin to the concept of mutually assured destruction. |
You continue to talk in generalities. It would be helpful to understand you if you cited some specifics. |
Honestly... its hard to talk in specifics. I can bring up one specific example and the response will be “because this happened to that person Trump happened?”
It’s death by a thousand cuts. Think of it that way. |
I don't understand what you are trying to say.
_________________
"A metronome keeps time by using a Ringo" |
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governator
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:42 am Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | Blaming right-wing extremest nuttery, racism and bigotry on "progressivism" is ridiculous. They haven't had enough time since the Civil War? The 60's civil rights movement? How much time do they need to be coddled and catered to until their fear and hatred magically dissolves because progress stood still and stopped putting pressure on them?
They are not the majority. The rest of us are tired of being ruled by a small group of hateful, ignorant, fearful people who want the live in an idealized past. Sorry, (bleep) that.
Do "conservatives" ever worry that they are offending and hurting others that don't believe the way they do? No. They seek to enforce their dogma on all, with no regrets and no concerns for how it's received or for it's negative effects.
Time for a new playbook. The playbook where the majority participates because they are motivated by exciting new possibilities and outvotes the neanderthals. |
The 60s Civil Rights Movement is a great example, I’m glad you brought it up.
That’s what leftists in particular, are trying to replicate across every single issue and at light speed.
You can’t do it like that across everything. I have been saying here, pre-Trump, if you approach social change this way, you will exacerbate the reverse. I have been pleading to stop using our immutable characteristics as a weapon because it will create division. Same response years later and oh, shocker, we are more divisive.
The people trying to engineer social change, have no clue how to do it. |
So, asking that gays can marry or serve their country, and not be discriminated against is too rapid a social change? Or what exactly? |
If you said 30 years ago, if you don’t think gays can marry you are a nazi... the progress would never have been made.
Think about how we got the progress that we did. It was incremental. With occasional big moments that helped move that progress along.
But now everyone wants to be a change agent. They just dont know how to do it very well. Everyone wants to be the next Civil Rights Movement. You don’t make a Civil Rights Movement — those movements are the byproduct of pushing progress in organic fashion. |
I'm fairly certain this was said 30 years ago just as whatever it is that bugs you was said recently. Isolated examples such as this, don't represent the totality of any progressive movements, but do represent the rhetoric of the frustrated. |
actually if you talk to the older generation, the response were similar. MLK was met with racist backlash also
Jodeke, wanna confirm? |
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Omar Little
Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90307
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:43 am Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | Trump is the logical progression of 21st Century American conservatism.
He's 1980s Reagan without the window dressing. It's been a long time since Dems portrayed Republicans further right then they really are. I look forward to the day that happens again. In actuallity we keep giving "Conservatives", "moderates' and "independents" the benefit of the doubt. To our detriment.
If now isn't the best time for bold progressive policy, there will never be a good time. |
Disagree. He is the manifestation of overly rapid progressivism IMO.
Newton’s third law, essentially.
Progressivism is good. It just has to be natural, and it must allow for a learning curve or it will be abandoned. |
Are you saying that he, being Trump, is a manifestation of the rapid progressivism of Obama, or Clinton, both of whom governed more from the middle than the left? The one progressive development from both was Obamacare, largely modeled on Romney's health care plan and other ideas originally proposed by Republicans. |
No, I’m saying Trump is a manifestation of, essentially, political correctness run amok (among other things).
We used to say, “this thing/policy you think is bad, is actually good” and over time, more and more people agreed it was good and that’s how progress was made.
Now, we say, “this thing/policy you think is bad, makes you a bad person and even if you change your mind, you thought it once and so you are permanently a bad person”. In most cases, that is not going to cause someone to say “youre right i am a bad person” it’s going to cause them to say “(bleep) you”
And that is basically what people are saying to each other now. It isn’t rocket science and yet, it shocks me how few people (on both sides) gets that. Trump is the (bleep) you, essentially. Akin to the concept of mutually assured destruction. |
You continue to talk in generalities. It would be helpful to understand you if you cited some specifics. |
He’s saying that noticing racism, fighting racism, and disapproving of racism is what creates racism. It’s the oldest fake argument in the book. If you stop calling racists racists, they’ll stop being racists. Yes it’s bad, but the best way to stop it is to completely do nothing about it, or even say it.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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governator
Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25092
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | Trump is the logical progression of 21st Century American conservatism.
He's 1980s Reagan without the window dressing. It's been a long time since Dems portrayed Republicans further right then they really are. I look forward to the day that happens again. In actuallity we keep giving "Conservatives", "moderates' and "independents" the benefit of the doubt. To our detriment.
If now isn't the best time for bold progressive policy, there will never be a good time. |
Disagree. He is the manifestation of overly rapid progressivism IMO.
Newton’s third law, essentially.
Progressivism is good. It just has to be natural, and it must allow for a learning curve or it will be abandoned. |
Are you saying that he, being Trump, is a manifestation of the rapid progressivism of Obama, or Clinton, both of whom governed more from the middle than the left? The one progressive development from both was Obamacare, largely modeled on Romney's health care plan and other ideas originally proposed by Republicans. |
No, I’m saying Trump is a manifestation of, essentially, political correctness run amok (among other things).
We used to say, “this thing/policy you think is bad, is actually good” and over time, more and more people agreed it was good and that’s how progress was made.
Now, we say, “this thing/policy you think is bad, makes you a bad person and even if you change your mind, you thought it once and so you are permanently a bad person”. In most cases, that is not going to cause someone to say “youre right i am a bad person” it’s going to cause them to say “(bleep) you”
And that is basically what people are saying to each other now. It isn’t rocket science and yet, it shocks me how few people (on both sides) gets that. Trump is the (bleep) you, essentially. Akin to the concept of mutually assured destruction. |
You continue to talk in generalities. It would be helpful to understand you if you cited some specifics. |
He’s saying that noticing racism, fighting racism, and disapproving of racism is what creates racism. It’s the oldest fake argument in the book. If you stop calling racists racists, they’ll stop being racists. Yes it’s bad, but the best way to stop it is to completely do nothing about it, or even say it. |
so it's along the line of... she shouldn't dress that way in the first place... kinda argument |
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