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ContagiousInspiration
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 Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | Also, the President of the United States is a serial rapist. And the main stream media doesn't care. |
I don't blame the media. I blame the Trump voters/supporters (at least 60+ million Americans) who don't care. And wouldn't care no matter how much it's reported on.
And most of the rest of us (who do care) feel powerless to do anything about it. |
(bleep) your feels.. right?
I have no words to describe these politicians.. they were worse than I imagined them to be |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| ContagiousInspiration wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | Also, the President of the United States is a serial rapist. And the main stream media doesn't care. |
I don't blame the media. I blame the Trump voters/supporters (at least 60+ million Americans) who don't care. And wouldn't care no matter how much it's reported on.
And most of the rest of us (who do care) feel powerless to do anything about it. |
(bleep) your feels.. right?
I have no words to describe these politicians.. they were worse than I imagined them to be |
Until the 2020 election there is no way for non-Republicans to hold him accountable. And even then. I'm not sure what the statute of limitations are. So putting him in jail for the crime may be impossible.
But we agree. Politicians who could do something, but don't, like Cocaine Mitch are irredeemable IMO.
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | Also, the President of the United States is a serial rapist. And the main stream media doesn't care. |
I don't blame the media. I blame the Trump voters/supporters (at least 60+ million Americans) who don't care. And wouldn't care no matter how much it's reported on.
And most of the rest of us (who do care) feel powerless to do anything about it. |
Here's what Trump, the Republican party, the main stream media corporations and his supporters (many Evangelicals, white supremacists, racist, bigots) all have in common: they are deeply rooted in White Male Patriarchy. That is also what binds them to Putin. And Nazis. These things are all connected. |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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E. Jean Carroll will be interviewed on Lawrence O'Donnell show tonight on MSNBC at 10 pm EST right after Rachel Maddow.
| ChefLinda wrote: | E. Jean Carroll (famed Elle magazine columnist): “Trump attacked (violent raped) me in the dressing room of Bergdorf Goodman.”
| Quote: | When Carroll meets Donald Trump in Bergdorf Goodman, the encounter starts as a friendly one. Trump recognizes her as “that advice lady”; Carroll recognizes him as “that real-estate tycoon.” Trump tells Carroll that he’s there to buy a gift for “a girl,” and though we don’t learn the identity of this mystery woman, Carroll places the ensuing incident in late 1995 or early 1996, during which time Trump was married to Marla Maples. When Trump asks Carroll to advise him on what to buy, she agrees, and the two eventually make their way to the lingerie section. Trump suggests a lace bodysuit and encourages Carroll to try it on; she, deflecting, jokingly suggests that he try it on instead. After they reach the dressing rooms, events turn violent. In Carroll’s account, Trump shoves her against a wall inside a dressing room, pulls down her tights, and, “forcing his fingers around my private area, thrusts his penis halfway — or completely, I’m not certain — inside me.”
Carroll, 75, is a venerated Elle advice columnist. At the time of the attack, she was well known in her own right. A frequent feature writer for magazines like Playboy and Esquire, she had her own television show on America’s Talking, the precursor to MSNBC. Trump had his own record. By the time of his alleged assault on Carroll, Trump’s ex-wife, Ivana, had already claimed that Trump violated her during their marriage. (Ivana recanted the claim after Trump launched his campaign for the presidency.) Further news reports, published in 2016, place at least four other alleged sexual-assault claims, made by Kristin Anderson, Jill Harth, Cathy Heller, and Temple Taggart McDowell, in the years before and during the time period of Carroll’s account.
Carroll is now at least the 16th woman to accuse Donald Trump of sexual misconduct and the 14th to accuse Moonves of similar offenses. The incidents, which date from the 1990s, are highly specific and related with dark humor. Moonves is compared by Carroll to an octopus, and Trump, she writes, “yammers about himself like he’s Alexander the Great ready to loot Babylon.” But she is clear, sometimes clinical, about the violence she experienced. Moonves frantically kisses and gropes her in a hotel elevator moments after she finished interviewing him for an article. The Trump story is even darker. |
| Quote: | | Carroll says that she disclosed the Trump incident to two friends at the time. One, whom Carroll describes as “a journalist, magazine writer, correspondent on the TV morning shows, author of many books, etc.,” told her to go to the police: “‘He raped you,’ she kept repeating when I called her. ‘He raped you. Go to the police! I’ll go with you. We’ll go together.’” The other, who is also a journalist, was sympathetically cautious: “‘Tell no one. Forget it! He has 200 lawyers. He’ll bury you.’” Carroll writes that the Donna Karan coat-dress she wore that day “still hangs on the back of my closet door.” She wore it for the first time since the attack for her portrait session with New York for the cover, above. |
Sadly, this probably won't even make the evening news. I lived in Manhattan during this time frame and heard several stories from associates that Trump frequently bragged about having sex with underage girls using graphic language. I've always loathed him, way before he became president. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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Will Melania ever say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH??? Probably not
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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From CNN video below: "Buttigieg faces protesters over fatal shooting of black man by white officer says, "of course black lives matter."
| Quote: | Keith Boykin Verified account @keithboykin
Mayor Pete Buttigieg: “I do not have evidence that there has been discipline for racist behavior...”
Protester: “You running for president and you expect black people to vote for you?”
Buttigieg: “I’m not asking for your vote.”
Protester: “You ain’t gonna get it either.” |
Link to video |
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ContagiousInspiration
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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I was bummed a couple days ago about this
He flew back and never contacted the family of the dead black citizen for two days
CRUSHED his stupid campaign.. too elite to realize he's conditioned to be uncomfortable around black people?
Not asking for a vote is honorable imho. He wants to earn it |
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Hector the Pup
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tox
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | Bloomberg: Elizabeth Warren’s Pledge to End Private Prisons Sends Shares Reeling
| Quote: | Shares of private prisons GEO Group Inc. and CoreCivic Inc. took a hit Friday morning after presidential candidate Senator Elizabeth Warren tweeted about about her plan to terminate them.
GEO slid as much as 5.8%, its biggest intraday loss since March, and CoreCivic retreated as much as 6%, the largest intraday decline this year. |
| Quote: | | Warren, a Massachusetts Democrat, said in a tweet that “private prison companies have spent millions to turn our criminal and immigration policies into ones that prioritize making them rich instead of keeping us safe —with terrible consequences. Today I’m announcing my plan to end this private profiteering off of cruelty.” |
Stocks don't tank unless investors believe the candidate has a chance of winning and implementing the policy. |
Every day that passes by makes me a bigger Elizabeth Warren fan |
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tox
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: |
You're missing the point entirely. People like Biden are criticized for their comments and actions specific to them as an individual. The "old white male" part enters because those actions are indicative of antiquated thoughts and ideals associated with their generation. It's not about ageism because it's not about the age, it's about the out of date attitudes.
And I say this as an "older white man" (55). There's no doubt or denying that there is a degree of privilege that has benefitted that segment of our society. There are members of it who are aware of it and work away from it, and others who still find themselves perpetuating it.
Biden gets called out not because of his age, but because he demonstrates outdated ideals associated with older generations.
As I have said many times, Biden is out of touch with the social pulse of today. And more importantly, has demonstrated that he is incapable of trying too find that pulse when he has misstepped. |
As someone who is neither old nor white, I don't think Biden is out of touch. I think he knows where the pulse of the nation is heading, but also that the median voters in what may be the tipping point state is still pretty out of step with where the progressive movement is. The same thing that feels out of date to you, CL, and me works for a lot of white moderates or even Trump leaning voters in crucial rust belt states.
I think Omar said the exact same thing but yeah. |
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The Juggernaut
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | Bloomberg: Elizabeth Warren’s Pledge to End Private Prisons Sends Shares Reeling
| Quote: | Shares of private prisons GEO Group Inc. and CoreCivic Inc. took a hit Friday morning after presidential candidate Senator Elizabeth Warren tweeted about about her plan to terminate them.
GEO slid as much as 5.8%, its biggest intraday loss since March, and CoreCivic retreated as much as 6%, the largest intraday decline this year. |
| Quote: | | Warren, a Massachusetts Democrat, said in a tweet that “private prison companies have spent millions to turn our criminal and immigration policies into ones that prioritize making them rich instead of keeping us safe —with terrible consequences. Today I’m announcing my plan to end this private profiteering off of cruelty.” |
Stocks don't tank unless investors believe the candidate has a chance of winning and implementing the policy. |
Every day that passes by makes me a bigger Elizabeth Warren fan |
Her and Sanders are the only one's I fully trust with their moral and ethic standards. And Warren is just extremely well prepared and thorough with everything she does. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: |
You're missing the point entirely. People like Biden are criticized for their comments and actions specific to them as an individual. The "old white male" part enters because those actions are indicative of antiquated thoughts and ideals associated with their generation. It's not about ageism because it's not about the age, it's about the out of date attitudes.
And I say this as an "older white man" (55). There's no doubt or denying that there is a degree of privilege that has benefitted that segment of our society. There are members of it who are aware of it and work away from it, and others who still find themselves perpetuating it.
Biden gets called out not because of his age, but because he demonstrates outdated ideals associated with older generations.
As I have said many times, Biden is out of touch with the social pulse of today. And more importantly, has demonstrated that he is incapable of trying too find that pulse when he has misstepped. |
As someone who is neither old nor white, I don't think Biden is out of touch. I think he knows where the pulse of the nation is heading, but also that the median voters in what may be the tipping point state is still pretty out of step with where the progressive movement is. The same thing that feels out of date to you, CL, and me works for a lot of white moderates or even Trump leaning voters in crucial rust belt states.
I think Omar said the exact same thing but yeah. |
I have zero faith in the bolded demographics to abandon Trump or to show up and vote for Biden in enough volume to overcome the votes lost from progressives (who Biden is proudly distancing himself from). Particularly in a winner takes all state by state electoral college.
I gave Bernie bros more crap than most Democrats. But I think Biden is on pace to alienate left Democrats more than Hillary did.
Turnout our base. Don't chase people who somehow find a way to be "moderate" when Trump's awfulness has been on full display for 4 years. Those "moderates" are just looking for reasons to make false equivalencies and to find excuses to vote for Trump.
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ContagiousInspiration
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | Also, the President of the United States is a serial rapist. And the main stream media doesn't care. |
AOC should livestream her and Monica Lewinsky having a conversation about how ashamed she is or should be of Republicans... They follow her like their favorite porn channels
From my understanding what President Clinton and Monica did was consensual. How many more women have to come forward for Republicans to even show they care about women and sexual assault? |
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tox
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| Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:29 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | tox wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: |
You're missing the point entirely. People like Biden are criticized for their comments and actions specific to them as an individual. The "old white male" part enters because those actions are indicative of antiquated thoughts and ideals associated with their generation. It's not about ageism because it's not about the age, it's about the out of date attitudes.
And I say this as an "older white man" (55). There's no doubt or denying that there is a degree of privilege that has benefitted that segment of our society. There are members of it who are aware of it and work away from it, and others who still find themselves perpetuating it.
Biden gets called out not because of his age, but because he demonstrates outdated ideals associated with older generations.
As I have said many times, Biden is out of touch with the social pulse of today. And more importantly, has demonstrated that he is incapable of trying too find that pulse when he has misstepped. |
As someone who is neither old nor white, I don't think Biden is out of touch. I think he knows where the pulse of the nation is heading, but also that the median voters in what may be the tipping point state is still pretty out of step with where the progressive movement is. The same thing that feels out of date to you, CL, and me works for a lot of white moderates or even Trump leaning voters in crucial rust belt states.
I think Omar said the exact same thing but yeah. |
I have zero faith in the bolded demographics to abandon Trump or to show up and vote for Biden in enough volume to overcome the votes lost from progressives (who Biden is proudly distancing himself from). Particularly in a winner takes all state by state electoral college.
I gave Bernie bros more crap than most Democrats. But I think Biden is on pace to alienate left Democrats more than Hillary did.
Turnout our base. Don't chase people who somehow find a way to be "moderate" when Trump's awfulness has been on full display for 4 years. Those "moderates" are just looking for reasons to make false equivalencies and to find excuses to vote for Trump. |
I'm not saying I disagree. I don't know the polling data. But my suspicion -- and Biden's too, most likely -- is that Trump is such a repulsive figure that people on the left will be motivated to vote even if they are not excited by Biden. Obviously there's a fine line to walk -- see the Hyde amendment controversy. But that's what they're betting on.
You might not trust the white moderate types to show up, but that's an unsubstantiated feeling. We do know that right now, Biden is beating Trump by double digits in most of the rust belt states in head to head polling. That probably doesn't mean much 16 months away from the election, but it's at least some evidence that Biden's approach would work.
Note that if the primary were today, Warren would have my vote in a heartbeat. I don't agree with Biden's political strategy, but I understand what he's trying to do. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:42 am Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: |
I'm not saying I disagree. I don't know the polling data. But my suspicion -- and Biden's too, most likely -- is that Trump is such a repulsive figure that people on the left will be motivated to vote even if they are not excited by Biden. Obviously there's a fine line to walk -- see the Hyde amendment controversy. But that's what they're betting on.
You might not trust the white moderate types to show up, but that's an unsubstantiated feeling. We do know that right now, Biden is beating Trump by double digits in most of the rust belt states in head to head polling. That probably doesn't mean much 16 months away from the election, but it's at least some evidence that Biden's approach would work.
Note that if the primary were today, Warren would have my vote in a heartbeat. I don't agree with Biden's political strategy, but I understand what he's trying to do. |
Sounds like we 95%+ agree. We only disagree on the bolded. Progressives are more likely to not vote to prove a point as opposed to centrist Democrats. Look no further than 2016.
But even if we assume the centrist path is the only/best path to defeating Trump . Even more concerning is the fact that Biden isn't doing that strategy justice. He's shockingly clumsy with his messaging. The right strategy is worthless if it's executed this poorly. He can appeal to people across the aisle without offending his own party members to this degree.
One final thing is the polling you mentioned. I suspect Biden's name recognition is playing a part in why he's beating Trump in important states to a greater degree than other Democratic candidates. When the primary field narrows and the remaining candidates get prolonged exposure, we'll see if my suspicion is correct.
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Last edited by kikanga on Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
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eddiejonze
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| Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:45 am Post subject: |
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"A study by the Democracy Fund Voter Study Group found that 9.2% of Obama voters voted for Trump in 2016. According to the American National Election Study, 13% of Trump voters had voted for Obama in 2012."
9% to 13%, lets average that out to 11%.....
Biden could and would get 11% of votes back that Hillary lost to trump.
That wins: Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and thats a total of 278, and a victory.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:49 am Post subject: |
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| eddiejonze wrote: | "A study by the Democracy Fund Voter Study Group found that 9.2% of Obama voters voted for Trump in 2016. According to the American National Election Study, 13% of Trump voters had voted for Obama in 2012."
9% to 13%, lets average that out to 11%.....
Biden could and would get 11% of votes back that Hillary lost to trump.
That wins: Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and thats a total of 278, and a victory. |
You're assuming everyone who voted for Hillary in 2016 votes for Biden in 2020. Simple addition doesn't give justice to the fluidity of potential Democrat voters. I can think of a ton of variables that aren't consistent between the 2012, 2016, and 2020 elections. The number of candidates in the primary, the candidates themselves, the economy, current events, the list goes on and on.
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eddiejonze
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| Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:01 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | eddiejonze wrote: | "A study by the Democracy Fund Voter Study Group found that 9.2% of Obama voters voted for Trump in 2016. According to the American National Election Study, 13% of Trump voters had voted for Obama in 2012."
9% to 13%, lets average that out to 11%.....
Biden could and would get 11% of votes back that Hillary lost to trump.
That wins: Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and thats a total of 278, and a victory. |
You're assuming everyone who voted for Hillary in 2016 votes for Biden in 2020. Simple addition doesn't give justice to the fluidity of potential Democrat voters. I can think of a ton of variables that aren't consistent between the 2012, 2016, and 2020 elections. The number of candidates in the primary, the candidates themselves, the economy, current events, the list goes on and on. |
I think If Warren was joe's running mate, yeah, he probably gets all those voters back.
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Creatures crawl in search of blood, To terrorize y'alls neighborhood. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:28 am Post subject: |
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| eddiejonze wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | eddiejonze wrote: | "A study by the Democracy Fund Voter Study Group found that 9.2% of Obama voters voted for Trump in 2016. According to the American National Election Study, 13% of Trump voters had voted for Obama in 2012."
9% to 13%, lets average that out to 11%.....
Biden could and would get 11% of votes back that Hillary lost to trump.
That wins: Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and thats a total of 278, and a victory. |
You're assuming everyone who voted for Hillary in 2016 votes for Biden in 2020. Simple addition doesn't give justice to the fluidity of potential Democrat voters. I can think of a ton of variables that aren't consistent between the 2012, 2016, and 2020 elections. The number of candidates in the primary, the candidates themselves, the economy, current events, the list goes on and on. |
I think If Warren was joe's running mate, yeah, he probably gets all those voters back. |
Pretty much the only thing Warren has in common with Hillary is the fact they are both older white women. Policy wise, Hillary is much more comparable to Biden.
You can't copy and paste how AA voters turned out for Obama and say the same about white female voters and Hillary/Warren. It's more complicated than that. 2016 showed that when Hillary lost the white female vote. Meanwhile white suburban women helped propel the 2018 blue wave which created the most racially diverse House ever. Because of the issues those diverse candidates ran on.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:47 am Post subject: |
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Our current political climate is more polarized than ever. Seems strange to me how confident people are that Dems can pull Republicans into the party across the giant chasm that separates the 2 parties.
Seems like a much safer bet to maximize voters who identify as Democrats. Having lived in Pennsylvania for nearly 1/2 a decade. It's a waste of time trying to convince people who don't live in Philly and Pittsburgh to vote Democrat. A better use of time is making sure everyone in the major cities is motivated to vote. Willing to wait hours in line to do so. That's how Barack won while I was there.
No Democrat, not even Biden, is gonna win Kittanning, PA or other sub 5,000 population towns. We're better off focusing on Philly with it's 1.5 million person population. Run up those margins.
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jodeke
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| Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:31 am Post subject: |
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The clamoring for new, young blood is understood and I believe it's something needed. However most important is to defeat Trump and IMO Joseph Robinette Biden Jr. is the best candidate to accomplish that feat.
Is he best to fill the seat in the Oval Office, I don't know for sure? Is he the best to defeat Trump I think so. He has the personality and calmness needed to challenge Trumps insulting strategy, he won't rattle.
The sniping needs to stop. It's has nothing positive to offer. It doesn't help the Democratic candidate, it helps the Republicans.
Where is Barack when we need him?
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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governator
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| Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | The clamoring for new, young blood is understood and I believe it's something needed. However most important is to defeat Trump and IMO Joseph Robinette Biden Jr. is the best candidate to accomplish that feat.
Is he best to fill the seat in the Oval Office, I don't know for sure? Is he the best to defeat Trump I think so. He has the personality and calmness needed to challenge Trumps insulting strategy, he won't rattle.
The sniping needs to stop. It's has nothing positive to offer. It doesn't help the Democratic candidate, it helps the Republicans.
Where is Barack when we need him? |
Why is Biden the best? don't you think the 'left' would vote whoever comes out of the primary, Biden or not? Or do you think Biden can bring some Trump voters to the other side? |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | The clamoring for new, young blood is understood and I believe it's something needed. However most important is to defeat Trump and IMO Joseph Robinette Biden Jr. is the best candidate to accomplish that feat.
Is he best to fill the seat in the Oval Office, I don't know for sure? Is he the best to defeat Trump I think so. He has the personality and calmness needed to challenge Trumps insulting strategy, he won't rattle.
The sniping needs to stop. It's has nothing positive to offer. It doesn't help the Democratic candidate, it helps the Republicans.
Where is Barack when we need him? |
Why is Biden the best? don't you think the 'left' would vote whoever comes out of the primary, Biden or not? Or do you think Biden can bring some Trump voters to the other side? |
I think that way because he has a personality that won't ruffle and the savvy to attack Trump without being distasteful.
I think the 'left' will vote for whoever comes out of the primary.
I think he has a good chance at bringing some of those on the fence to the Dems corner .
I don't know who can sway Trumnpsters. They're a curious breed.
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Last edited by jodeke on Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:38 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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tox
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| Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | tox wrote: |
I'm not saying I disagree. I don't know the polling data. But my suspicion -- and Biden's too, most likely -- is that Trump is such a repulsive figure that people on the left will be motivated to vote even if they are not excited by Biden. Obviously there's a fine line to walk -- see the Hyde amendment controversy. But that's what they're betting on.
You might not trust the white moderate types to show up, but that's an unsubstantiated feeling. We do know that right now, Biden is beating Trump by double digits in most of the rust belt states in head to head polling. That probably doesn't mean much 16 months away from the election, but it's at least some evidence that Biden's approach would work.
Note that if the primary were today, Warren would have my vote in a heartbeat. I don't agree with Biden's political strategy, but I understand what he's trying to do. |
Sounds like we 95%+ agree. We only disagree on the bolded. Progressives are more likely to not vote to prove a point as opposed to centrist Democrats. Look no further than 2016.
But even if we assume the centrist path is the only/best path to defeating Trump . Even more concerning is the fact that Biden isn't doing that strategy justice. He's shockingly clumsy with his messaging. The right strategy is worthless if it's executed this poorly. He can appeal to people across the aisle without offending his own party members to this degree.
One final thing is the polling you mentioned. I suspect Biden's name recognition is playing a part in why he's beating Trump in important states to a greater degree than other Democratic candidates. When the primary field narrows and the remaining candidates get prolonged exposure, we'll see if my suspicion is correct. |
I really think that a lot of Progressives were complacent in 2016 thinking Clinton was going to win regardless. Now that Trump is the incumbent, they won't think that. Also, keep in mind Progressives are often clustered in blue states anyway. If Clinton lost due middling turnout, it was arguably due to black voters in cities like Milwaukee not showing up for her like they did for Obama (even though in absolute terms I think their turnout was solid).
I agree Biden is mediocre at his own strategy, but I do think there's an inherent tension in the Democratic party that Biden is revealing. A lot of people gloss over how white, rural moderates (usually men) don't really agree with a lot of identity politics from the Democratic party writ large. There's really no way to signal to those voters that you're one of them without offending people like you and me.
As for the bolded, I hope for that too. Sanders is also polling fairly well against Trump (though clearly worse), and he has a much lower favorability rating relative to name recognition in the party.* So when Elizabeth Warren reaches Biden levels of name recognition, you'd hope she sees similar numbers to Biden. Although -- never underestimate people's latent biases. Biden probably gets a lot out of being an old white straight guy.
*From 538: https://fivethirtyeight.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Rakich-2020-FAVORABILITY-0603-1.png?w=1150 |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: |
I really think that a lot of Progressives were complacent in 2016 thinking Clinton was going to win regardless. Now that Trump is the incumbent, they won't think that. Also, keep in mind Progressives are often clustered in blue states anyway. If Clinton lost due middling turnout, it was arguably due to black voters in cities like Milwaukee not showing up for her like they did for Obama (even though in absolute terms I think their turnout was solid).
I agree Biden is mediocre at his own strategy, but I do think there's an inherent tension in the Democratic party that Biden is revealing. A lot of people gloss over how white, rural moderates (usually men) don't really agree with a lot of identity politics from the Democratic party writ large. There's really no way to signal to those voters that you're one of them without offending people like you and me.
As for the bolded, I hope for that too. Sanders is also polling fairly well against Trump (though clearly worse), and he has a much lower favorability rating relative to name recognition in the party.* So when Elizabeth Warren reaches Biden levels of name recognition, you'd hope she sees similar numbers to Biden. Although -- never underestimate people's latent biases. Biden probably gets a lot out of being an old white straight guy.
*From 538: https://fivethirtyeight.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Rakich-2020-FAVORABILITY-0603-1.png?w=1150 |
I haven't heard Warren play "identity politics". I've heard her propose progressive policy that will help the working poor. And since there are more minorities that fall into that category, it has triggered some insecure white males. Which is a testament to the unreliability of that demographic in the first place.
It's probably unrealistic to expect the African American turnout to reach Obama levels ever again. Which isn't surprising. And it was expected by most pre-2016.
Part of the reason why Democrats were confident pre-2016 was because (1) young new voters (18-22) prefer Democrats to Republicans and (2) minorities prefer Democrats to Republicans. Wisconsin is 86% white. So option 2 is what it is.
But there are 25 institutions of higher education in the city of Milwaukee alone comprising at least 68,000 students. Nearly 3 times the margin Hillary lost the state by. Just in that 1 major city. I think it's wise to turnout those demographics as opposed to trying to drag Trump voters in rural areas over to the Democratic party.
Maybe pre-Trump that strategy is more viable. But the political spectrum is more polarized now more than ever. Rural, non-college educated whites will jump of a cliff if Trump tells them too. It's why Ohio is no longer in play. Those voters are constantly looking for an excuse to vote for Trump. Because Trump makes them feel good and gives them a person to blame (women, LGBTQ, Muslims, racial minorities, etc). It's why Trump succeeded where Romney and McCain didn't.
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