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Hector the Pup
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Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 35946
Location: L.A.
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 Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: |
Not sure if I like this or not. The no BS attitude, left answer to tea party is refreshing but the burn the whole thing (gov't)/US is bad and only bad... not so much |
I don't look at this on such a macro level.
She is simply calling out one of the architects of Iran Contra on his long established policies. That he is even playing a role right now is beyond ridiculous.
And of course, he was convicted of lying to congress. Personally, if I was a congressman and someone like that came before me, I'd be saying the same thing. |
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ContagiousInspiration
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Joined: 07 May 2014
Posts: 13823
Location: Boulder ;)
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:04 am Post subject: |
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| Hector the Pup wrote: | | governator wrote: |
Not sure if I like this or not. The no BS attitude, left answer to tea party is refreshing but the burn the whole thing (gov't)/US is bad and only bad... not so much |
I don't look at this on such a macro level.
She is simply calling out one of the architects of Iran Contra on his long established policies. That he is even playing a role right now is beyond ridiculous.
And of course, he was convicted of lying to congress. Personally, if I was a congressman and someone like that came before me, I'd be saying the same thing. |
Amazing it finally takes a female muslim to call out the hypocrisy in US Politics
I think he was twice convicted for lying if I read correctly..
Just like how watching Trump makes me physically ill. How can anyone listen to a known serial liar and believe anything they say.. Don't they look stupid for listening to people like Abrams? |
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ringfinger
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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | UBI ought to be a conservative issue. As automation removes jobs, one of the best uses of unemployed and underemployed people is as consumers. That income you give them gives you a huge multiplier effect as they spend it. |
Who is subsidizing the income? If it's a generous billionaire, I'm totally good with it. |
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splashmtn
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Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| ContagiousInspiration wrote: | How are politicians going to teach humans to act more humane?
| Quote: | | You should never take more than you give. |
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News flash. Politicians are people too. Politicians are US. Let's stop talking about them as if they are someone else. They're us. The reason they are easily corrupted is because WE are easily corrupted. Fix yourself and the politicians will be fixed. You will have the correct ethical mind set to start voting in ethical/principled people. In addition the pool of ethical/principled people will increase. |
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splashmtn
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Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | UBI ought to be a conservative issue. As automation removes jobs, one of the best uses of unemployed and underemployed people is as consumers. That income you give them gives you a huge multiplier effect as they spend it. |
Who is subsidizing the income? If it's a generous billionaire, I'm totally good with it. |
It should be part of that 70% tax on the ultra rich. Part of that goes into the UBI fund. The more automation we get, the more they have to put into that fund. It will always be a lot less than the difference between the amounts they are making by losing human employees and going with automation/robots. So they will not be able to yell foul. |
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splashmtn
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Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| ContagiousInspiration wrote: |  
Prime Time Sports forced to close, after removing Nike apparel from store
https://koaa.com/news/2019/02/11/prime-time-sports-forced-to-close-after-removing-nike-apparel-from-store/
| Quote: | “Being a sports store without Nike is kind of like being a milk store without milk or a gas station without gas. How do you do it? They have a monopoly on jerseys,” said Martin.
Martin says he’s the only full service, licensed fan shop between Castle Rock and the New Mexico border. Despite having all 32 NFL team’s apparel in his store, he doesn’t have any current players’ jerseys–because of his decision to drop all Nike apparel.
He also cancelled an autograph session with Brandon Marshall at his store back in 2016, to protest Marshall’s decision to kneel during the anthem.
“As much as I hate to admit this, perhaps there are more Brandon Marshall and Colin Kaepernick supporters out there than I realized,” said Martin. |
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Hey "let the markets decide"  |
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Surfitall
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Joined: 12 Feb 2002
Posts: 3829
Location: South Orange County
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:15 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | UBI ought to be a conservative issue. As automation removes jobs, one of the best uses of unemployed and underemployed people is as consumers. That income you give them gives you a huge multiplier effect as they spend it. |
Who is subsidizing the income? If it's a generous billionaire, I'm totally good with it. |
Since this is Andrew Yang’s issue, he proposes funding it by consolidating some welfare programs and by creating a 10% Value Added Tax.
A Value-Added Tax (VAT) is a tax on the production of goods or services a business produces. It makes it hard for large corporations, who are experts at hiding profits and income, to avoid paying their fair share. A VAT is nothing new. 160 out of 193 countries in the world already have a Value-Added Tax or something similar, including all of Europe which has an average VAT of 20 percent.
It also funds itself in some ways. The Roosevelt Institute projected that the economy would grow by approximately $2.5 trillion and create 4.6 million new jobs. This would generate approximately $500 – 600 billion in new revenue from economic growth and activity.
It’s also projected to save $100B-$200B by helping people avoid our social service/healthcare institutions. |
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governator
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25075
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| Surfitall wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | UBI ought to be a conservative issue. As automation removes jobs, one of the best uses of unemployed and underemployed people is as consumers. That income you give them gives you a huge multiplier effect as they spend it. |
Who is subsidizing the income? If it's a generous billionaire, I'm totally good with it. |
Since this is Andrew Yang’s issue, he proposes funding it by consolidating some welfare programs and by creating a 10% Value Added Tax.
A Value-Added Tax (VAT) is a tax on the production of goods or services a business produces. It makes it hard for large corporations, who are experts at hiding profits and income, to avoid paying their fair share. A VAT is nothing new. 160 out of 193 countries in the world already have a Value-Added Tax or something similar, including all of Europe which has an average VAT of 20 percent.
It also funds itself in some ways. The Roosevelt Institute projected that the economy would grow by approximately $2.5 trillion and create 4.6 million new jobs. This would generate approximately $500 – 600 billion in new revenue from economic growth and activity.
It’s also projected to save $100B-$200B by helping people avoid our social service/healthcare institutions. |
what would prevent corporations from passing the VAT to consumers? |
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Surfitall
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Joined: 12 Feb 2002
Posts: 3829
Location: South Orange County
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:16 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | UBI ought to be a conservative issue. As automation removes jobs, one of the best uses of unemployed and underemployed people is as consumers. That income you give them gives you a huge multiplier effect as they spend it. |
Who is subsidizing the income? If it's a generous billionaire, I'm totally good with it. |
Since this is Andrew Yang’s issue, he proposes funding it by consolidating some welfare programs and by creating a 10% Value Added Tax.
A Value-Added Tax (VAT) is a tax on the production of goods or services a business produces. It makes it hard for large corporations, who are experts at hiding profits and income, to avoid paying their fair share. A VAT is nothing new. 160 out of 193 countries in the world already have a Value-Added Tax or something similar, including all of Europe which has an average VAT of 20 percent.
It also funds itself in some ways. The Roosevelt Institute projected that the economy would grow by approximately $2.5 trillion and create 4.6 million new jobs. This would generate approximately $500 – 600 billion in new revenue from economic growth and activity.
It’s also projected to save $100B-$200B by helping people avoid our social service/healthcare institutions. |
what would prevent corporations from passing the VAT to consumers? |
I think it probably would be passed along to consumers, although there was a study in Canada where they replaced a sales tax with a VAT and found consumer prices actually fell by .3%. |
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The Juggernaut
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Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 4572
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| ContagiousInspiration wrote: | | Hector the Pup wrote: | | governator wrote: |
Not sure if I like this or not. The no BS attitude, left answer to tea party is refreshing but the burn the whole thing (gov't)/US is bad and only bad... not so much |
I don't look at this on such a macro level.
She is simply calling out one of the architects of Iran Contra on his long established policies. That he is even playing a role right now is beyond ridiculous.
And of course, he was convicted of lying to congress. Personally, if I was a congressman and someone like that came before me, I'd be saying the same thing. |
Amazing it finally takes a female muslim to call out the hypocrisy in US Politics
I think he was twice convicted for lying if I read correctly..
Just like how watching Trump makes me physically ill. How can anyone listen to a known serial liar and believe anything they say.. Don't they look stupid for listening to people like Abrams? |
Agree. Loved the way she went about it. Expose these scum bags. |
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ringfinger
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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| splashmtn wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | UBI ought to be a conservative issue. As automation removes jobs, one of the best uses of unemployed and underemployed people is as consumers. That income you give them gives you a huge multiplier effect as they spend it. |
Who is subsidizing the income? If it's a generous billionaire, I'm totally good with it. |
It should be part of that 70% tax on the ultra rich. Part of that goes into the UBI fund. The more automation we get, the more they have to put into that fund. It will always be a lot less than the difference between the amounts they are making by losing human employees and going with automation/robots. So they will not be able to yell foul. |
But then how would it be a conservative issue? They're not going to want to tax themselves at 70% (well, the rich ones anyway).
Plus, I don't think that would work. Most of the wealth from the ultra rich isn't from salaried income is it? A lot of them draw a $1 salary (Zuckerberg, Larry Ellison, etc) and I think Jeff Bezos only makes around $80,000 per year. Much of their wealth is tied up in investments. |
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PHILosophize
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Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Posts: 10758
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | UBI ought to be a conservative issue. As automation removes jobs, one of the best uses of unemployed and underemployed people is as consumers. That income you give them gives you a huge multiplier effect as they spend it. |
Who is subsidizing the income? If it's a generous billionaire, I'm totally good with it. |
Since this is Andrew Yang’s issue, he proposes funding it by consolidating some welfare programs and by creating a 10% Value Added Tax.
A Value-Added Tax (VAT) is a tax on the production of goods or services a business produces. It makes it hard for large corporations, who are experts at hiding profits and income, to avoid paying their fair share. A VAT is nothing new. 160 out of 193 countries in the world already have a Value-Added Tax or something similar, including all of Europe which has an average VAT of 20 percent.
It also funds itself in some ways. The Roosevelt Institute projected that the economy would grow by approximately $2.5 trillion and create 4.6 million new jobs. This would generate approximately $500 – 600 billion in new revenue from economic growth and activity.
It’s also projected to save $100B-$200B by helping people avoid our social service/healthcare institutions. |
what would prevent corporations from passing the VAT to consumers? |
well one thought that I think Yang brought up in the pod is that consumers would pump some of their UBI money into these companies
I'm not well versed in economics but I suppose the retort might be that it would still be better for the companies to just pass the VAT on
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one dog goes that way the other dog goes the other way |
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Omar Little
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Posts: 90305
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | splashmtn wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | UBI ought to be a conservative issue. As automation removes jobs, one of the best uses of unemployed and underemployed people is as consumers. That income you give them gives you a huge multiplier effect as they spend it. |
Who is subsidizing the income? If it's a generous billionaire, I'm totally good with it. |
It should be part of that 70% tax on the ultra rich. Part of that goes into the UBI fund. The more automation we get, the more they have to put into that fund. It will always be a lot less than the difference between the amounts they are making by losing human employees and going with automation/robots. So they will not be able to yell foul. |
But then how would it be a conservative issue? They're not going to want to tax themselves at 70% (well, the rich ones anyway).
Plus, I don't think that would work. Most of the wealth from the ultra rich isn't from salaried income is it? A lot of them draw a $1 salary (Zuckerberg, Larry Ellison, etc) and I think Jeff Bezos only makes around $80,000 per year. Much of their wealth is tied up in investments. |
It should be a conservative issue because it is good and sustainable to create a greater flow of the money which will end up returning anyway. It's like sustainable forestry vs cutting down every last tree,
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | UBI ought to be a conservative issue. As automation removes jobs, one of the best uses of unemployed and underemployed people is as consumers. That income you give them gives you a huge multiplier effect as they spend it. |
Who is subsidizing the income? If it's a generous billionaire, I'm totally good with it. |
Since this is Andrew Yang’s issue, he proposes funding it by consolidating some welfare programs and by creating a 10% Value Added Tax.
A Value-Added Tax (VAT) is a tax on the production of goods or services a business produces. It makes it hard for large corporations, who are experts at hiding profits and income, to avoid paying their fair share. A VAT is nothing new. 160 out of 193 countries in the world already have a Value-Added Tax or something similar, including all of Europe which has an average VAT of 20 percent.
It also funds itself in some ways. The Roosevelt Institute projected that the economy would grow by approximately $2.5 trillion and create 4.6 million new jobs. This would generate approximately $500 – 600 billion in new revenue from economic growth and activity.
It’s also projected to save $100B-$200B by helping people avoid our social service/healthcare institutions. |
what would prevent corporations from passing the VAT to consumers? |
Nothing. They would. But they'd also in theory be passing along the savings of higher volume that the stimulative consumption from UBI would create. There would be competition for those dollars.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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One of the problems in our economy is that there isn't enough circulation of the money. It flows ever upward and then is sequestered in hedge funds and other vehicles that don't stimulate growth or create demand.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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kikanga
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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I suspect that era will be short. Even the partisans in the courts understand the goose and gander nature of this.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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governator
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: |
I suspect that era will be short. Even the partisans in the courts understand the goose and gander nature of this. |
yeah, reducing legislative power, even Trump loving 'legislators' should think twice about it |
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Wilt
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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It'll come down to John Roberts.
Politically speaking, Trump would probably want it defeated in the courts. He rather be seen fighting for the wall than building it.
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¡Hala Madrid! |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Wilt wrote: | It'll come down to John Roberts.
Politically speaking, Trump would probably want it defeated in the courts. He rather be seen fighting for the wall than building it. |
Yeah, the wall is like the caravan. It's only useful when it is out on the horizon.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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PHILosophize
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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who will bring the suit challenging this declaration's validity?
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one dog goes that way the other dog goes the other way |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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If you subscribe to the idea that Trump is a witting or unwitting agent of Putin, the shutdown followed by declaring a fake emergency are both rational moves (from Putin's perspective) that are primarily useful in undermining the institutions further.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Heartburn
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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Let's not pretend that the GOP is worried about Dems pulling this trick when we have Dem president. They have no memory and they cannot be shamed. Especially their leader McConnell.
"...Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.” - George Orwell, 1984.
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You are under no obligation to remain the same person you were a year ago, a month ago, or even a day ago. You are here to create yourself, continuously. - Richard Feynman |
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ContagiousInspiration
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Joined: 07 May 2014
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Location: Boulder ;)
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Wilt wrote: | It'll come down to John Roberts.
Politically speaking, Trump would probably want it defeated in the courts. He rather be seen fighting for the wall than building it. |
Could come down to an actual Deep State coup
Seeing McCabes comments today about how much of a threat they considered Trump... he keeps really pushing buttons lately and others beyond judges may decide to stop him
What all comes with declaring a National Emergency
When was the last time one was declared |
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governator
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | It'll come down to John Roberts.
Politically speaking, Trump would probably want it defeated in the courts. He rather be seen fighting for the wall than building it. |
Yeah, the wall is like the caravan. It's only useful when it is out on the horizon. |
You guys really think Trump cares if the wall is built or if the court supports his declaration? I think he just need the chaos to continue to election day in 2020 |
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