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angel
Franchise Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 14226
Location: city of angels
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 Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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Kobe's credentials are three Championships as a superstar, three All-NBA first team, 8 time All-Star, All-Star MVP, multiple All-Defensive, and scored 30ppg in a season. This season Kobe should get the regular season MVP, another All-NBA first team, and another 30ppg season. He's done all that, but hasn't reached his prime yet.
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LAKERLVR
Starting Rotation
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 920
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| The Dagger wrote: |
I don't think they have an order. |
I know, I'm just saying he should be ahead of 8 other guys before they snub him, so he'll make the team. |
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JerryWest_44
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Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 25587
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| numero-ocho wrote: | Here's the list from the 50 Greatest Player's List.
http://www.nba.com/history/50greatest.html
My Votes for the next 10.
Kobe
Bob McAdoo
David Thompson
Tim Duncan
Kevin Garnett
Reggie Miller
Bernard King
Dominique Wilkins
Dennis Rodman
Nate Archibald |
Remove Miller, Wilkins & Thompson |
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sodapoppenski
Star Player
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 7364
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 1:40 am Post subject: |
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| JerryWest_44 wrote: | | numero-ocho wrote: | Here's the list from the 50 Greatest Player's List.
http://www.nba.com/history/50greatest.html
My Votes for the next 10.
Kobe
Bob McAdoo
David Thompson
Tim Duncan
Kevin Garnett
Reggie Miller
Bernard King
Dominique Wilkins
Dennis Rodman
Nate Archibald |
Remove Miller, Wilkins & Thompson |
Umm, and like I said last page, Nate Archibald is already on the Top-50.
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kqiu2210
Starting Rotation
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 975
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 4:05 am Post subject: |
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| Kobe deserves 2 slots in the Greatest 60. He should be centrefold of the book when they make it and take up two pages =P Or if two spots is too much for one player, rip out Shaqs page and then spit on it, burn it, and bury it in a graveyard. |
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angel
Franchise Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 14226
Location: city of angels
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 4:43 am Post subject: |
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In HOF voting, one All-NBA first team and statistics over a lot of years might get a player inducted. Two All-NBA first teams make it very sure. Three All-NBA first teams is practically automatic. One regular season MVP is almost automatic. All-NBA first team means top two for a guard or forward, or top center. MVP means best player in the NBA. It's very hard to be the top in any given year and not make the HOF. Not everyone in the HOF made the top 50 team. At age 27, Kobe already has everything he needs to reach the HOF.
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sodapoppenski
Star Player
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 7364
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 5:14 am Post subject: |
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| sodapoppenski wrote: | | Charles wrote: | It's an interesting crop of players:
Tim Duncan
Kobe Bryant
Allen Iverson
Jason Kidd
Gary Payton
Reggie Miller
Dennis Rodman
Bernard King
Domonique Wilkins
Bob McAdoo
David Thompson
Nate Archibald |
Ok, after a little more thought.
1.) Nate Archibald is already on the Top-50.
2.) I think the following are locks:
Kobe Bryant
Tim Duncan
Reggie Miller
Allen Iverson
Jason Kidd
Gary Payton
Kevin Garnett
If all players picked are roughly since the last selection (Top-50 in 1997)...
I think the following will be considerations for the last 3 spots:
Vince Carter
Chris Webber
Tracy McGrady
Steve Nash
Paul Pierce
Alonzo Mourning
Ray Allen
Grant Hill
Tim Hardaway
* If they're pressed to fill positions, Vlade may be considered to get a center in the mix.
Obviously only 3 of those make the final cut.
Obviously some of those I rank higher based on publicity and perception.
Likewise injury-plagued players like 'Zo and Hill are lower for that reason.
Soda  |
(just reposting my list with the quote to explain)...
Along the lines of "what it takes," while I agree there's some tie-in with
the "number of MVPs" a player earns, and his number of All-NBA
selections, and which level those were, etc...
Champions still speak volumes.
Think back over 10 years.
Aside from Rodman with a very outside-chance, all of Jordan's teammates
would have already made the list when they did Top-50 (Jordan, Pip).
Who else has won titles since then?
Lakers
Spurs
Pistons
Not a soul on the Pistons has a chance, IMO. You could maybe make a
case for Rasheed but you'd be reaching big-time.
Spurs? Duncan. - (Robinson already in - nobody else has a chance).
Lakers? Kobe - (Shaq's already in - nobody else has a chance).
So that's your ENTIRE list of "ring-bearing" players from that period who
have a shot.
So what's next after that along the same vein?
I say, at least in part, Finals appearances (and obviously team-success in
general).
That's why I have these four added as "locks:"
Reggie Miller
Allen Iverson
Jason Kidd
Gary Payton
Not only did they have team success and/or great numbers, but they led
their teams to the NBA Finals (Kidd twice in a row).
That will count for alot, IMO.
I added KG as a lock because he's simply been that consistantly good.
(you can equate that with his number of All-NBA selections if you like,
either way it's a similar reason anyhow)...
...he also finally managed to push the Wolves to the WCF a couple years
back, which helps push him from "very likely" to a lock IMO.
(I already explained in rough detail when I first posted my list why I
chose the players to be considered and the rough order I gave them).
10-Years vs. Going Back:
It won't blow me away if they go back into the original 50-years to add
someone like Wilkins or King.
BUT... that is only because it's the TNT crew doing the selection.
Nostalgia, as we all know, is strong among many people out there. Tons
of people love to go on about how "the game just isn't what it used to
be." True stuff, but it's far more sophisticated today and players aren't
the crap some people make them out to be when using such nostalgic
logic.
If the NBA were selecting officially?
I think they just go back (roughly) 10 years. (some players of course
could have been playing already longer than that, like Iverson, etc).
If they start a precident of reaching backwards, it's a bad one to set.
They'll end up 25 years later on the next selection reaching back to who
should have been picked THIS selection.
And so on, and so on, and so on.
That doesn't look good for them, and is just bad practice.
Might TNT do it? Sure. But when the NBA does the "75 Best" (supposedly
the next league-sanctioned list that will come out in 15 years) I don't
see them reaching 50 years back to make an addition. |
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angel
Franchise Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 14226
Location: city of angels
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 5:57 am Post subject: |
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Bynum may make it for the top 80. By the time the top 70 hits, Bynum will be barely in his prime. Kobe will be almost ready to retire.
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"Darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that." ~~Martin Luther King Jr.~~ |
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sodapoppenski
Star Player
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 7364
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 6:43 am Post subject: |
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| angel wrote: | | Bynum may make it for the top 80. By the time the top 70 hits, Bynum will be barely in his prime. Kobe will be almost ready to retire. |
Well, like I said - remember this "Top 60" stuff is just TNT doing it.
The next NBA-sanctioned list is supposedly going to be a "Top-75."
So if we're talking Bynum, he'll be 33 years old when that comes out. |
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kobekillinu2nite
Star Player
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Posts: 1774
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| sodapoppenski wrote: | | Charles wrote: | It's an interesting crop of players:
Tim Duncan
Kobe Bryant
Allen Iverson
Jason Kidd
Gary Payton
Reggie Miller
Dennis Rodman
Bernard King
Domonique Wilkins
Bob McAdoo
David Thompson
Nate Archibald |
Ok, after a little more thought.
1.) Nate Archibald is already on the Top-50.
2.) I think the following are locks:
Kobe Bryant
Tim Duncan
Reggie Miller
Allen Iverson
Jason Kidd
Gary Payton
Kevin Garnett
If all players picked are roughly since the last selection (Top-50 in 1997)...
I think the following will be considerations for the last 3 spots:
Vince Carter
Chris Webber
Tracy McGrady
Steve Nash
Paul Pierce
Alonzo Mourning
Ray Allen
Grant Hill
Tim Hardaway
* If they're pressed to fill positions, Vlade may be considered to get a center in the mix.
Obviously only 3 of those make the final cut.
Obviously some of those I rank higher based on publicity and perception.
Likewise injury-plagued players like 'Zo and Hill are lower for that reason.
Soda |
Grant Hill is already on the list. |
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Drifts
Retired Number
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Posts: 28428
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 10:53 am Post subject: |
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| kobekillinu2nite wrote: |
Grant Hill is already on the list. |
What list??........The injured list? Disabled list?
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AirKobe8
Star Player
Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 8586
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| Drifts wrote: | | kobekillinu2nite wrote: |
Grant Hill is already on the list. |
What list??........The injured list? Disabled list?
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The "needs a nurse to bath him" list.
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Fan site made by me and others, dedicated to posting Laker news and articles in portuguese. |
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sodapoppenski
Star Player
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 7364
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| kobekillinu2nite wrote: | | sodapoppenski wrote: | | Charles wrote: | It's an interesting crop of players:
Tim Duncan
Kobe Bryant
Allen Iverson
Jason Kidd
Gary Payton
Reggie Miller
Dennis Rodman
Bernard King
Domonique Wilkins
Bob McAdoo
David Thompson
Nate Archibald |
Ok, after a little more thought.
1.) Nate Archibald is already on the Top-50.
2.) I think the following are locks:
Kobe Bryant
Tim Duncan
Reggie Miller
Allen Iverson
Jason Kidd
Gary Payton
Kevin Garnett
If all players picked are roughly since the last selection (Top-50 in 1997)...
I think the following will be considerations for the last 3 spots:
Vince Carter
Chris Webber
Tracy McGrady
Steve Nash
Paul Pierce
Alonzo Mourning
Ray Allen
Grant Hill
Tim Hardaway
* If they're pressed to fill positions, Vlade may be considered to get a center in the mix.
Obviously only 3 of those make the final cut.
Obviously some of those I rank higher based on publicity and perception.
Likewise injury-plagued players like 'Zo and Hill are lower for that reason.
Soda |
Grant Hill is already on the list. |
No, he's not.
NBA's 50 Greatest Player List |
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sodapoppenski
Star Player
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 7364
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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<bump>
(List is going to be announced in a couple hours on TNT) |
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JerryWest_44
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Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 25587
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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I think many are going to be surprised on the next 10 on the list -- everyone seems that the next 10 are coming from the those who are currently in the league ...
Here's some notables not on the list:
King,
Lanier,
Wilkins,
McAdoo,
Rodman,
Moncrief,
Issel,
Gilmore,
Dantley, |
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sodapoppenski
Star Player
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 7364
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| JerryWest_44 wrote: | I think many are going to be surprised on the next 10 on the list -- everyone seems that the next 10 are coming from the those who are currently in the league ...
Here's some notables not on the list:
King,
Lanier,
Wilkins,
McAdoo,
Rodman,
Moncrief,
Issel,
Gilmore,
Dantley, |
That's why I was careful to mention exactly that on my list earlier.
Even if they go further back, I still say these are 7 locks:
Kobe Bryant
Tim Duncan
Reggie Miller
Allen Iverson
Jason Kidd
Gary Payton
Kevin Garnett
If they break into the old school for any of them...
I'd say...
Wilkins
King
Rodman
Roughly in that order of likelihood. |
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JerryWest_44
Retired Number
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 25587
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| sodapoppenski wrote: | | JerryWest_44 wrote: | I think many are going to be surprised on the next 10 on the list -- everyone seems that the next 10 are coming from the those who are currently in the league ...
Here's some notables not on the list:
King,
Lanier,
Wilkins,
McAdoo,
Rodman,
Moncrief,
Issel,
Gilmore,
Dantley, |
That's why I was careful to mention exactly that on my list earlier.
Even if they go further back, I still say these are 7 locks:
Kobe Bryant
Tim Duncan
Reggie Miller
Allen Iverson
Jason Kidd
Gary Payton
Kevin Garnett
If they break into the old school for any of them...
I'd say...
Wilkins
King
Rodman
Roughly in that order of likelihood. |
Kobe & TD are locks -- |
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sodapoppenski
Star Player
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 7364
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| JerryWest_44 wrote: | | sodapoppenski wrote: | | JerryWest_44 wrote: | I think many are going to be surprised on the next 10 on the list -- everyone seems that the next 10 are coming from the those who are currently in the league ...
Here's some notables not on the list:
King,
Lanier,
Wilkins,
McAdoo,
Rodman,
Moncrief,
Issel,
Gilmore,
Dantley, |
That's why I was careful to mention exactly that on my list earlier.
Even if they go further back, I still say these are 7 locks:
Kobe Bryant
Tim Duncan
Reggie Miller
Allen Iverson
Jason Kidd
Gary Payton
Kevin Garnett
If they break into the old school for any of them...
I'd say...
Wilkins
King
Rodman
Roughly in that order of likelihood. |
Kobe & TD are locks -- |
Mkay, but if all 7 of my "locks" make the list, you're flying me to Memphis
for floor-seats of the next Grizzlies home-game vs. the Lakers, Mr. West. |
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Lakers Dynasty 2000
Star Player
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Posts: 5350
Location: So Cal
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| JD wrote: | | Zhengi wrote: | | Perhaps, but I wouldn't put it past the NBA to leave Kobe off the list. |
Well... let's see... 62 in 3 quarters. 81 in a game. 3 rings...
The NBA loses all credibility if they exclude him.
Not some...
ALL.
You wanna live in a world where you believe they'll do anything to screw over Kobe... go right ahead. They may begrudingly accept he's one of the greats... but they can't avoid him. |
Completely agree JD. COMPLETELY AGREE.
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sodapoppenski
Star Player
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 7364
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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Ok somebody warn me if TNT doesn't have the "60 Greatest" segment
starting right now in the L.A. area.
Don't wanna spoil it if they're running it later there.
I'm in Tucson, AZ - which right now is an hour later than CA. |
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sodapoppenski
Star Player
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 7364
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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Looks like they're doing it by position...
...which means maybe my list is gonna get twisted out! 
(Centers especially I wonder where they go) |
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sodapoppenski
Star Player
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 7364
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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Ugh, I can already tell they're going overboard on the "nostalgia" factor.
Wouldn't it make sense that if the 50 Greatest came from 50 years, that
at least most of the "next 10" would be from the last 10-15? |
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sodapoppenski
Star Player
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 7364
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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Oh rip-off, they're discussing each position, then moving on... not
revealing any of the picks until the end of the show!
Ah well, that figures  |
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Money$hot!
Star Player
Joined: 18 Dec 2002
Posts: 5911
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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Just to be clear for those who are not watching...
THIS IS NOT THE NBA'S 60 GREATEST OF ALL TIME..
This is TNT's own speculation vote from their group of announcers. Ok, back to the show... |
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VicTheBrick
Sixth Man
Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 28
Location: Courtside at the Downtown Hoop Dojo
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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Kobe
Kidd
Iverson
Duncan
Garnett
Nash
Lebron
Wade
Yao
TMac |
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