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noahp45
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:37 pm    Post subject:

PayasoLoco wrote:
j-dawg wrote:
But but... Analytics

But but... Jason Tatum is better than him

But but... D’Angelo is better than him

But but... Kuzma is better than him



but but hes too skinny and weak


Must bball fans saw what BI could be...lakers fans have no patience
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PayasoLoco
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:21 pm    Post subject:

He’s given clippers all they can handle....
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:31 pm    Post subject:

I knew he had improved significantly from the FT line, but 86%?!?! I genuinely didn't know it was that high this year. Dude shot FT's with us like he was a center, and now he's turned into James Harden at the line.

Unreal.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:50 pm    Post subject:

Pelicans have no offense without him smh.

Also the refs have been cooking all game. That was an over the back foul by Harrell, how in the world did he get an and1 call on that play??? Nice challenge by Gentry regardless
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:56 pm    Post subject:

BigBoi wrote:
Pelicans have no offense without him smh.

Also the refs have been cooking all game. That was an over the back foul by Harrell, how in the world did he get an and1 call on that play??? Nice challenge by Gentry regardless


This has been a joke in the 4th quarter. Breathe on Kawhi or Lou and they blow the whistle. Meanwhile, they allow Beverley to just hack the hell out of Lonzo and they call nothing. Now Lonzo called for a charge on a play where Harrell just runs into him.

Beyond pathetic.
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TheBlackMamba
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:58 pm    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
If we win a title, the AD trade was worth it. If we don't, it wasn't. Those who were for the AD trade said it was more likely we'd win a title eventually with the young guys than it being likely we'd win a title with AD. Those were for the AD trade thought the opposite. Hindsight will prove one side right and one side wrong.

That said, without the benefit of hindsight, knowing what we knew at the time (especially in regards to BI's injury and the possibility of Kawhi), you do the trade 10 times out of 10.

Still, as one of BI's greatest fans on this board, it really stung at the time to lose him. I can honestly say nothing he is doing now suprises me. I kept updating the 1st page of this thread because it was clear his progression foretold this and it was only a matter of time. That he is doing it this soon just aligns with what was probably my most optimistic projection. Really curious to see whether Zion's return helps or hurts him.


Problem is we'll never know if we would've won a title with the kids. It's impossible to prove one way or the other, and we could've added free agents to that core, done other trades, etc.

Though chances are that just the kids tops out as a fun, competitive playoff contender, but not necessarily a championship caliber team. I say that purely because I don't see a crop of good to great defenders among the BI, Dlo, Jules, Zo core, and defense is ultimately what would put that team over the top compared to the other great young teams/cores around the league.
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TheBlackMamba
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:02 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
I knew he had improved significantly from the FT line, but 86%?!?! I genuinely didn't know it was that high this year. Dude shot FT's with us like he was a center, and now he's turned into James Harden at the line.

Unreal.


It's so frustrating, man

The whole time he was here, I knew if he just improved his FTs, that alone would make him an efficient enough 20 PPG scorer. Not only did he improve, he became elite at it AND the same with his 3-point shooting and volume. It defies even the most optimistic projections for him this year.
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:05 pm    Post subject:

BigBoi wrote:
Pelicans have no offense without him smh.

Also the refs have been cooking all game. That was an over the back foul by Harrell, how in the world did he get an and1 call on that play??? Nice challenge by Gentry regardless


He was over the back because Favors was walking under him.
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LakerLogic
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:08 pm    Post subject:

His defense is pretty bad
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JerryWest_44
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:09 pm    Post subject:

bad defense against LW
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JerryWest_44
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:10 pm    Post subject:

LakerLogic wrote:
His defense is pretty bad


atrocious
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TheBlackMamba
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:16 pm    Post subject:

Unrelated, but Hart is elite at looking like he's defending his man well, and then proceeding to get torched and/or just fouling the guy.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:19 pm    Post subject:

JerryWest_44 wrote:
bad defense against LW


LW does that to everyone.. He was there to contest when the shot went up.

With that being said, overall there's nothing impressive about his defense this season. It's average.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:24 pm    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
JerryWest_44 wrote:
bad defense against LW


LW does that to everyone.. He was there to contest when the shot went up.

With that being said, overall there's nothing impressive about his defense this season. It's average.


Gentry. The kids balling out right now, and a strong 2nd half will actually be detrimental to them in the long run, if it means Gentry is kept around another year or even extended. Just like MDA, he's great for offensive development and putting up numbers, but that style of play won't work without a defense to back it up.
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Luminous8
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:22 pm    Post subject:

TheBlackMamba wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
JerryWest_44 wrote:
bad defense against LW


LW does that to everyone.. He was there to contest when the shot went up.

With that being said, overall there's nothing impressive about his defense this season. It's average.


Gentry. The kids balling out right now, and a strong 2nd half will actually be detrimental to them in the long run, if it means Gentry is kept around another year or even extended. Just like MDA, he's great for offensive development and putting up numbers, but that style of play won't work without a defense to back it up.


I missed the gane tonight, but they’ve actually been playing pretty good d the last few weeks
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:29 am    Post subject:

The Pelicans are 10 games under .500 and still learning how to win games. Much like the Lakers were the last few years, much like Kuzma still is. To say that the Lakers would have won a title with these young guys (plus some of what we still have left) is stretch for me. How many teams that stay together like that, win?

There was Steph, Klay and Dray. First, all 3 peaked at the same time. Second, we are talking Steph here. How many Steph level talents did the Lakers have? What the Lakers were looking at, eventually way down the road, was a team that could probably win 45-50 games every year with all those guys in their peak, and with all of them making max contracts.

Almost all championship teams that all time great, top 10-15 all time player, talent. The Lakers were looking at having a really exciting team with 2-3 all-star caliber players, but lacking that all time player. Once you signed Lebron, you had to go for the title, because those are very hard to achieve. You then have a chance to get a second possible all time player in AD (he may not be a top 10 all time, but he will finish his career likely one of the best PFs to ever play the game) you had to go for it. Even with all the issues and Kawhi doing what he did, Lakers are now in a realistic path towards a title. That path is so difficult to achieve - so many franchises go decades with many different all stars they draft - but can not get to that path. Look at Portland for example. Look at Washington. So many franchises. Where the Lakers are right now, not many teams can position themselves like that with 2 players like that. You had to take the chance, and it was well worth it even if you don't win a title in the next 3 years. But for sure to be out right winners of the trade, winning a title is a strong argument.

I think had we signed Paul George instead of Lebron, I think we would have been much more willing to keep the young core and wait for them to develop/peak, as the titles were not something realistically on the fore front. However when you sign a talent like Lebron, you're already close to a title as you have the #1 piece title teams generally have (That all time GOAT argument level player still playing MVP level ball). The fact that Lebron is beating teams with basically Kyle Kuzma and solid 2-way vets, and no AD, just shows how much better he is off with vets and less young developing talent. The Lakers would have never gone this route had Lebron not shown interest in being a Laker. The key for the Lakers will be to extend (or allow Lebron to walk) on a cap friendly contract, and not repeat the mistakes made with Kobe's contract. That will be a huge part of how strong this trade works for us longterm.
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Last edited by wolfpaclaker on Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:13 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:33 am    Post subject:

Many touted the Sixers model as proof, or the Thunder model even. Yet years later, the Thunder now have zero superstars despite some great management. The Sixers have pretty much gotten rid of all their young talent minus Embiid and Simmons, who are not exactly looking like a realistic championship level team. What we acheived with this AD and Lebron pairing, and the timing to have the cap to sign Kawhi on top of it, had 2-3 championships written all over it. Even without Kawhi, I see us being in contention realistically for 2 years. For sure after that, it will come down to some smart decisions by Rob and co, on what they want to do. Because the expiration date on Lebron's championship window is about 2-3 years at most. Hopefully they don't make the same mistake done with Kobe, late in his career.
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:20 pm    Post subject:

It is a stretch to say that we would have won a title with these guys. That is why I really wanted to trade some for Paul George. PG would have been a better fit with old Lebron than AD, in my opinion. I would also say it’s a stretch to say that we win a title with Lebron and AD this season considering the supporting cast. We will have the MLE in the offseason to improve that cast.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:19 pm    Post subject:

TheBlackMamba wrote:
Unrelated, but Hart is elite at looking like he's defending his man well, and then proceeding to get torched and/or just fouling the guy.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:36 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
The Lakers would have never gone this route had Lebron not shown interest in being a Laker.


Maybe, but I tend to disagree. We've been shooting for quick fixes for about eight years now. Even if Lebron had not signed on, I have a strong suspicion that we would have sacrificed the kids for someone else.

I see you (and other posters in the past) comparing us to the Warriors or the Sixers. That's a misleading comparison. The Lakers are a free agent destination in ways that Golden State and Philly cannot match. The idea would have been to build a strong base of young players and then to lure the superstar. Instead, we burned part of the young core for cap space that we never used for a star, then burned the rest of the young core (plus a lot of draft picks) to get Davis. This may work out, or it may not.

Anyway, as time goes by, you can really see how much some of us overvalued the young core. Ingram is the only one of them with star potential, if he can stay healthy. I thought that Ball might have figured out his shot, but he has regressed to the mean. His defense is not as impressive in the Pelicans' scheme. Russell, Randle, Hart, Kuzma, and Clarkson all range from average to above average. That's about it. I'm not sure that we maximized value for the guys that we traded, but it doesn't look like anyone other than maybe Ingram is such a great loss.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:23 pm    Post subject:

The Lakers have been going for the quick fix ever since the end was near for Dr. Buss and Kobe became mortal. When they did look like they were trying to build a foundation Jeanie freaked out.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:15 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
The Lakers have been going for the quick fix ever since the end was near for Dr. Buss and Kobe became mortal. When they did look like they were trying to build a foundation Jeanie freaked out.
Absolutely. But hey we are contending now. The short term is looking nice at least.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:36 pm    Post subject:

What ever happened to that podcast guy named Nate, who swore BI would never amount to anything? Does anyone recall his last name or know whether he's updated his stance on Ingram?
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:58 pm    Post subject:

lakersboy wrote:
What ever happened to that podcast guy named Nate, who swore BI would never amount to anything? Does anyone recall his last name or know whether he's updated his stance on Ingram?


Nate Duncan.

Yes he has updated his stance. Pretty much every one is sold now it seems
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:56 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Many touted the Sixers model as proof, or the Thunder model even. Yet years later, the Thunder now have zero superstars despite some great management. The Sixers have pretty much gotten rid of all their young talent minus Embiid and Simmons, who are not exactly looking like a realistic championship level team. What we acheived with this AD and Lebron pairing, and the timing to have the cap to sign Kawhi on top of it, had 2-3 championships written all over it. Even without Kawhi, I see us being in contention realistically for 2 years. For sure after that, it will come down to some smart decisions by Rob and co, on what they want to do. Because the expiration date on Lebron's championship window is about 2-3 years at most. Hopefully they don't make the same mistake done with Kobe, late in his career.

I agree. My only complaint is the Lakers put all their cards on the table too soon in the AD negotiations. They could have drove a harder bargain and not given up so many draft picks. I put some of that on Magic who I assume offered everything last year, and our previous LAZY coaching staff for not even developing our young players. If our youth looked more polished and developed from the previous season our trade package doesnt need multiple 1st round sweeteners.
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