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waterman40
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 Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:34 am Post subject: |
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Randle should be an interesting indicator this offseason. With Randle and BI, you have two young lottery picks (and I would say expectations for Ingram are higher than Randle). Randle signed his option, so he is making $9 million this year, a couple million more than he did with the Lakers. Randle is hoping to get paid big, much like Brandon expects to be able to try and cash in in 2 years.
Both players are young, active, and good defenders at multiple positions, I would venture to say Randle is a little better defender at 3-5 than Ingram is at 2-4 defending. Randle shoots about 5-7% better at free throws. Both players are best offensively at the rim, and generally poorer than average shooting outside the paint. Both are willing passers; Randle I think is the more consistent scorer, and big-guys at the 4 and 5 generally get paid more.
My guess is that Randle is going to get paid $12-16 million a year by somebody, the pelicans themselves may even overpay Him, if they plan on trading AD this offseason. Randle I think is from the South, so I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him in some team from the Southeast.
So for next season, BI I think needs to up his free throw shooting to 75 to 79%, right at league average. He probably needs to attempt 2-4 3's a game, and shoot them around 35% or better. if the Lakers big offseason grab is a guard, especially a PG, and BI plays SG and ups those averages, and we have a playoff season next year, BI can get paid $12-16 million a year.
But if he remains basically where he is now, 28% on 3's, a terrible 66% percent on free throws, I think he is just treading water now on his $5.7 million current salary. He has played better the last 15 games or so, but overall, I'd say his year has been a little disappointing.
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LakersNewEra
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:44 am Post subject: |
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BI came to the league seriously physically underdeveloped and theres aspects of his game I really dont like and his shooting isnt convincing at all.
Yet if DLO and Randle show anything and if we can go by their example, takes about 4 year for a young player to come along. Mind you, both were further along than BI physically from the start of their respective careers.
Anyhow, really good chance BI puts it all together next year in terms of physicality, understanding of the game, his shooting...
I wouldnt be surprised at all if he averages 22-24 ppg next year. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:11 am Post subject: |
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| LakersNewEra wrote: | BI came to the league seriously physically underdeveloped and theres aspects of his game I really dont like and his shooting isnt convincing at all.
Yet if DLO and Randle show anything and if we can go by their example, takes about 4 year for a young player to come along. Mind you, both were further along than BI physically from the start of their respective careers.
Anyhow, really good chance BI puts it all together next year in terms of physicality, understanding of the game, his shooting...
I wouldnt be surprised at all if he averages 22-24 ppg next year. |
That would likely mean we miss out on a max FA though.
I don't think PPG should be the aim for BI. I love his ability to be a defensive stopper and a few other areas of the game that are not PPG related. I think when he gets singularly focused on scoring, that's when he runs into issues b/c he can be a big contributor in a bunch of non scoring areas (and still be a good 18-20ppg level scorer).
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:12 am Post subject: |
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| LakerMindLA wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | I'm not sure BI, based on current play, is in a position to demand 20m+.
I think he's more in the line of 12-14m/year, in the Justice Winslow range.
Maybe he breaks out next year, maybe not, but I don't think it's a surefire thing to say he's going to GET 20m+/year.
A lot of the players on SM's list were paid in the summer of 2015 and 16, or were basically 1 year deals (like Jabari). |
Summer of 19 and 20 will be similar to 15 and 16. I think teams will be a bit wiser than they were in 15 and 16, but for a player of Ingram’s age, one of the teams with a boatload of cappace will make a run at him.
I could easily see Atlanta or eve Indiana throw a lot of money at him. It would be a very low risk move for them. |
Not over 20m+/year if he's still not shooting 3s, low FT%, etc.
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Daphanabe
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:27 am Post subject: |
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| Silver lining (if you can call it that) of Luke’s sucky player development, is that we may get Ingram’s second contract at a ‘discount’. Allowing us to spend elsewhere while hopefully he overdelivers on that contract from years 5-8. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| Daphanabe wrote: | | Silver lining (if you can call it that) of Luke’s sucky player development, is that we may get Ingram’s second contract at a ‘discount’. Allowing us to spend elsewhere while hopefully he overdelivers on that contract from years 5-8. |
I don't think he will be "cheap" (i.e. under 12m).
I don't think he will be "expensive" (i.e. 20-26m).
I expect him to continue improving at a steady pace. The real determining factors are 3s/FTs/strength, etc. Could be a 12m/year deal, could be a 17-18m/year deal. Too soon to tell.
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Daphanabe wrote: | | Silver lining (if you can call it that) of Luke’s sucky player development, is that we may get Ingram’s second contract at a ‘discount’. Allowing us to spend elsewhere while hopefully he overdelivers on that contract from years 5-8. |
I don't think he will be "cheap" (i.e. under 12m).
I don't think he will be "expensive" (i.e. 20-26m).
I expect him to continue improving at a steady pace. The real determining factors are 3s/FTs/strength, etc. Could be a 12m/year deal, could be a 17-18m/year deal. Too soon to tell. |
Well, they need to make a decision by Oct 2019. Either they offer him an extension or they let him play out his final year and become a RFA like Julius Randle. They'll have to make this decision without having time to see if he's "improved" |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:53 am Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Daphanabe wrote: | | Silver lining (if you can call it that) of Luke’s sucky player development, is that we may get Ingram’s second contract at a ‘discount’. Allowing us to spend elsewhere while hopefully he overdelivers on that contract from years 5-8. |
I don't think he will be "cheap" (i.e. under 12m).
I don't think he will be "expensive" (i.e. 20-26m).
I expect him to continue improving at a steady pace. The real determining factors are 3s/FTs/strength, etc. Could be a 12m/year deal, could be a 17-18m/year deal. Too soon to tell. |
Well, they need to make a decision by Oct 2019. Either they offer him an extension or they let him play out his final year and become a RFA like Julius Randle. |
I don't see them pre-extending b/f RFA. Would really box them in (unless there is a deal too good to turn down).
IIRC, Jules was willing to take a 12m/year deal. In hindsight, that looks pretty good but would have destroyed a 2nd max possibility (unless you trade him out after 1 year).
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Daphanabe wrote: | | Silver lining (if you can call it that) of Luke’s sucky player development, is that we may get Ingram’s second contract at a ‘discount’. Allowing us to spend elsewhere while hopefully he overdelivers on that contract from years 5-8. |
I don't think he will be "cheap" (i.e. under 12m).
I don't think he will be "expensive" (i.e. 20-26m).
I expect him to continue improving at a steady pace. The real determining factors are 3s/FTs/strength, etc. Could be a 12m/year deal, could be a 17-18m/year deal. Too soon to tell. |
Well, they need to make a decision by Oct 2019. Either they offer him an extension or they let him play out his final year and become a RFA like Julius Randle. |
I don't see them pre-extending b/f RFA. Would really box them in (unless there is a deal too good to turn down).
IIRC, Jules was willing to take a 12m/year deal. In hindsight, that looks pretty good but would have destroyed a 2nd max possibility (unless you trade him out after 1 year). |
If that's the case and BI and his agent knows this, we might see BI stat chasing next year. |
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LakersNewEra
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Joined: 16 Apr 2014
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Location: Vancouver BC
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | LakersNewEra wrote: | BI came to the league seriously physically underdeveloped and theres aspects of his game I really dont like and his shooting isnt convincing at all.
Yet if DLO and Randle show anything and if we can go by their example, takes about 4 year for a young player to come along. Mind you, both were further along than BI physically from the start of their respective careers.
Anyhow, really good chance BI puts it all together next year in terms of physicality, understanding of the game, his shooting...
I wouldnt be surprised at all if he averages 22-24 ppg next year. |
That would likely mean we miss out on a max FA though.
I don't think PPG should be the aim for BI. I love his ability to be a defensive stopper and a few other areas of the game that are not PPG related. I think when he gets singularly focused on scoring, that's when he runs into issues b/c he can be a big contributor in a bunch of non scoring areas (and still be a good 18-20ppg level scorer). |
What worries me about him is his understanding of the game. He seems to be a net negative more often than not and I believe the advanced stats are not favorable to him at all.
He seems to handle the ball too much which stops ball movement and he's inconsistent as a shooter.
It feels he can put it together and there are games when he does but he's been having same weaknesses for a while.
Also I believe he will still improve physically. |
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Practice
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Joined: 14 Apr 2015
Posts: 4551
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| LakersNewEra wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | LakersNewEra wrote: | BI came to the league seriously physically underdeveloped and theres aspects of his game I really dont like and his shooting isnt convincing at all.
Yet if DLO and Randle show anything and if we can go by their example, takes about 4 year for a young player to come along. Mind you, both were further along than BI physically from the start of their respective careers.
Anyhow, really good chance BI puts it all together next year in terms of physicality, understanding of the game, his shooting...
I wouldnt be surprised at all if he averages 22-24 ppg next year. |
That would likely mean we miss out on a max FA though.
I don't think PPG should be the aim for BI. I love his ability to be a defensive stopper and a few other areas of the game that are not PPG related. I think when he gets singularly focused on scoring, that's when he runs into issues b/c he can be a big contributor in a bunch of non scoring areas (and still be a good 18-20ppg level scorer). |
What worries me about him is his understanding of the game. He seems to be a net negative more often than not and I believe the advanced stats are not favorable to him at all.
He seems to handle the ball too much which stops ball movement and he's inconsistent as a shooter.
It feels he can put it together and there are games when he does but he's been having same weaknesses for a while.
Also I believe he will still improve physically. |
He's doing what the Lakers want him to do. They want him to be to be a scorer that you can just give the ball to and let him create a bucket for himself. |
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hype
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I think he has done a pretty fantastic job considering they have put him in different positions and tried to change his mind state as a basketball player several times since he was drafted.. at times they have asked him to play point and be the guy that gets everything going then they have asked him to be a scorer and now with lebron he is supposed to be cutting and doing other things then when lebron gets hurt he needs to be that iso scorer again but when he comes back he has to go back to taking a backseat to lebron..
he came in at 19 and was still very raw and the lakers never let him really focus on one thing.. like the spurs with kawhi they handled him beautifully and got the max out of his potential.. i just dont see that with the lakers and ingram.. plenty is still obviously on ingram to improve and mature regardless but how his coaches develop him is a huge factor as well when it is a guy as raw as ingram was and still partially is.
i think like usual he will add a bit more to his frame like he has every off season so far and work on his shooting and people will act all surprised next year when he looks much better.
the big thing is i continue to see more and more brilliant moments from him and thats what you hope to see in a developing player.. very few players in history are consistent at his age in the nba.. i get the frustration from fans that he needs to be more consistent but at the end of the day its actually pretty common and i just hope the lakers dont give up on him too soon like they have others already. |
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VicXLakers
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| hype wrote: | Yeah, I think he has done a pretty fantastic job considering they have put him in different positions and tried to change his mind state as a basketball player several times since he was drafted.. at times they have asked him to play point and be the guy that gets everything going then they have asked him to be a scorer and now with lebron he is supposed to be cutting and doing other things then when lebron gets hurt he needs to be that iso scorer again but when he comes back he has to go back to taking a backseat to lebron..
he came in at 19 and was still very raw and the lakers never let him really focus on one thing.. like the spurs with kawhi they handled him beautifully and got the max out of his potential.. i just dont see that with the lakers and ingram.. plenty is still obviously on ingram to improve and mature regardless but how his coaches develop him is a huge factor as well when it is a guy as raw as ingram was and still partially is.
i think like usual he will add a bit more to his frame like he has every off season so far and work on his shooting and people will act all surprised next year when he looks much better.
the big thing is i continue to see more and more brilliant moments from him and thats what you hope to see in a developing player.. very few players in history are consistent at his age in the nba.. i get the frustration from fans that he needs to be more consistent but at the end of the day its actually pretty common and i just hope the lakers dont give up on him too soon like they have others already. |
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Staccatos
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:49 am Post subject: |
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| Daphanabe wrote: | | Silver lining (if you can call it that) of Luke’s sucky player development, is that we may get Ingram’s second contract at a ‘discount’. Allowing us to spend elsewhere while hopefully he overdelivers on that contract from years 5-8. |
It's not a silver lining if you dump your youth because they don't show much under Luke "Lack of Development" Walton.
At this point I'd say the Lakers youth would look better under any coaching in the NBA besides the Lakers. |
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Dr. Laker
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Joined: 12 Apr 2002
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:04 am Post subject: |
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Ingram's future is probably elsewhere. Not because he cannot play, but because he's the best piece to send in trade to get the parts to surround LBJ and the 2nd max (or AD).
If Klay leaves GS (longshot) to sign with us, then the ideal 3rd Musketeer is AD via trade. Ditto Kyrie. If the Lakers get Kawhi, that's BI's position and he goes for whatever we need. Ditto Butler.
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dcarter4kobe
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Joined: 30 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Daphanabe wrote: | | Silver lining (if you can call it that) of Luke’s sucky player development, is that we may get Ingram’s second contract at a ‘discount’. Allowing us to spend elsewhere while hopefully he overdelivers on that contract from years 5-8. |
I don't think he will be "cheap" (i.e. under 12m).
I don't think he will be "expensive" (i.e. 20-26m).
I expect him to continue improving at a steady pace. The real determining factors are 3s/FTs/strength, etc. Could be a 12m/year deal, could be a 17-18m/year deal. Too soon to tell. |
Well, they need to make a decision by Oct 2019. Either they offer him an extension or they let him play out his final year and become a RFA like Julius Randle. |
I don't see them pre-extending b/f RFA. Would really box them in (unless there is a deal too good to turn down).
IIRC, Jules was willing to take a 12m/year deal. In hindsight, that looks pretty good but would have destroyed a 2nd max possibility (unless you trade him out after 1 year). |
Or we moved Deng/draft pick for large bad exp k (Asik, Zbo etc)
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LuciusAllen
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Joined: 24 Sep 2005
Posts: 5787
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Daphanabe wrote: | | Silver lining (if you can call it that) of Luke’s sucky player development, is that we may get Ingram’s second contract at a ‘discount’. Allowing us to spend elsewhere while hopefully he overdelivers on that contract from years 5-8. |
I don't think he will be "cheap" (i.e. under 12m).
I don't think he will be "expensive" (i.e. 20-26m).
I expect him to continue improving at a steady pace. The real determining factors are 3s/FTs/strength, etc. Could be a 12m/year deal, could be a 17-18m/year deal. Too soon to tell. |
With improved shooting next year, it will be more. Think about what a guy like Otto Porter makes. |
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Sentient Meat
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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Man, early days but Otto Porter is thriving in Chicago.
Maybe playing with Wall and Beal was holding him back all these years. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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Brandon Ingram Free Throw Percentage by month
October: 68.8%
November: 63.1%
December: 59.3%
January: 68.8%
February: 76.9%
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LakersDC
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | Brandon Ingram Free Throw Percentage by month
October: 68.8%
November: 63.1%
December: 59.3%
January: 68.8%
February: 76.9% |
If I throw that limited sample set in a regression model, BI will be shooting 82% in May  |
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LakersNewEra
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Location: Vancouver BC
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:02 am Post subject: |
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He will definitely improve a ton next year and take his game to the next level. You can just tell IMO. Also going by examples of DLO and Randle it also took them 3-4 years to put it together and Ingram needed a bit more time too, not as developed physically when he came to the league.
Improving physically, improving his shot and improving his understanding of the game, it will all happen next year IMO.
But he still wont be the greatest fit next to LBJ, thats a bit of a problem. Its just the player that he is, he needs the ball in his hands and that wont change too much but hopefully they make it work. |
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KindCrippler2000
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Joined: 02 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| LakersDC wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Brandon Ingram Free Throw Percentage by month
October: 68.8%
November: 63.1%
December: 59.3%
January: 68.8%
February: 76.9% |
If I throw that limited sample set in a regression model, BI will be shooting 82% in May |
If he can get it up to 72%-74%, we are golden (Lebron's career FT%). He won't be a liability at the line. |
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Jesusdelonla
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Joined: 24 Jan 2018
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | Brandon Ingram Free Throw Percentage by month
October: 68.8%
November: 63.1%
December: 59.3%
January: 68.8%
February: 76.9% |
BI >>>> Randle |
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Villain6Activated
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Joined: 22 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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BI doesn't have until next season, he has the stretch after ASB to prove he fits next to Lebron.
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LakersNewEra
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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| 1ngr4m wrote: | | BI doesn't have until next season, he has the stretch after ASB to prove he fits next to Lebron. |
Nah dont see the FO trading him. They already got burnt with DLO and Randle. They will hold onto BI. |
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