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Lonzo-Lite
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 Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfever714 wrote: | | I hope BI embraces coming off bench. We have a good thing going and are winning so we don't wanna mess it up. The current starting lineup is lethal. Hopefully, he'll be a team player and think of what's best for the team. |
BI isn’t going to accept that, at least not anytime soon. Remember what Ingram said when he came back from his suspension?
| Quote: | Brandon Ingram: 'I'm Not Coming off the Bench'
Los Angeles Lakers forward Brandon Ingram wasn't shy about discussing the role he expects to play for the team as he comes off his four-game suspension.
"I'm not coming off the bench," Ingram said ahead of Monday's game. "I don't know the lineup, but I know I'll be in it.”
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Last edited by Lonzo-Lite on Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:02 am; edited 2 times in total |
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SGV-Laker fan
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Joined: 23 May 2013
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| i'm never a believer of late boomer for NBA players. you either pass the eye test first couple seasons in or you don't. so far Ingram has not impressed me at all. the numbers he has putting up are decent, but how much of those are actually impactful? if you play any NBA player 35+ minutes and have him dominate the ball, 99% of them will put up similar or better numbers than BI. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:03 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | I would consider trying out a 6th man role. (ducks incoming fire).
I'd still play him close to 30mpg. I think he would have a clearer role leading the 2nd unit and playing in some (but not mostly) blended minutes with LBJ.
Would give him 14mpg w/out LBJ, probably another 14-15mpg w/LBJ. It's worth experimenting for a few games when he comes back from injury. |
Yeah. I actually think, mentality and style wise, BI would probably be best served as a rich man's 3/D guy. |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Yeah. And we're not benching BI either, right? So, besides trading BI, the only other alternative is start BI and then effectively never play him with Lebron again maybe? |
That's tough when LBJ is playing 34mpg. |
We have 9 legit rotation guys right now, including the current starters, Ingram, Rondo, KCP, & Chandler. If Ingram were to come off of the bench, they could run a 9-man rotation where he, LeBron and Kuz play the 96 forward minutes. Going 10-deep means a guy like Lance or Beasley is playing.
LeBron = 34
Kuzma = 32
Lonzo = 28
Ingram = 28
Hart = 26
JaVale = 24
Chandler = 24
Rondo = 22
KCP = 22
That's a damn good squad with players getting enough minutes to be happy, but not so many that they burn out. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Yeah. And we're not benching BI either, right? So, besides trading BI, the only other alternative is start BI and then effectively never play him with Lebron again maybe? |
That's tough when LBJ is playing 34mpg. |
We have 9 legit rotation guys right now, including the current starters, Ingram, Rondo, KCP, & Chandler. If Ingram were to come off of the bench, they could run a 9-man rotation where he, LeBron and Kuz play the 96 forward minutes. Going 10-deep means a guy like Lance or Beasley is playing.
LeBron = 34
Kuzma = 32
Lonzo = 28
Ingram = 28
Hart = 26
JaVale = 24
Chandler = 24
Rondo = 22
KCP = 22
That's a damn good squad with players getting enough minutes to be happy, but not so many that they burn out. |
Yeah. 14mpg w/out LBJ; 14mpg with him.
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PengShow
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Joined: 01 Jul 2018
Posts: 743
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:09 am Post subject: |
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Why is BI being shoe-horned into the starting line up anyway if he's not performing or plays a specific way that isn't in the best interests of the team.
Change his role and make him be the OKC Harden, feast on 2nd units and finish of games depending on how he does. He looks awkward playing alongside LeBron, I'd much rather play to the strengths of the best player in basketball than one who's still trying to find his own identity. |
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epak
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| PengShow wrote: | Why is BI being shoe-horned into the starting line up anyway if he's not performing or plays a specific way that isn't in the best interests of the team.
Change his role and make him be the OKC Harden, feast on 2nd units and finish of games depending on how he does. He looks awkward playing alongside LeBron, I'd much rather play to the strengths of the best player in basketball than one who's still trying to find his own identity. |
Maybe it has to do with his rookie season.
When he was coming off the bench, and then he finally broke through mid season-ish? And Luke or BI mentioned having that hunger for being in the starting lineup and never wanting going back to the bench. And having that mentality. Or something of the sort. |
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BigBoi
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| When is BI coming back, any updates on his ankle? |
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AirTupac
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| BI to be reevaluated in 2020 after his 100th MRI |
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troy
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| My only concern about Brandon Ingram is that the ball slows down with him. He's not as quick as Hart, Kuz, or Ball. He finishes better than all of them though, and he knows how to get to the rim. Luke will have to learn how to use him with Lebron. |
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SGV-Laker fan
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| Lonzo-Lite wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | I hope BI embraces coming off bench. We have a good thing going and are winning so we don't wanna mess it up. The current starting lineup is lethal. Hopefully, he'll be a team player and think of what's best for the team. |
BI isn’t going to accept that, at least not anytime soon. Remember what Ingram said when he came back from his suspension?
| Quote: | Brandon Ingram: 'I'm Not Coming off the Bench'
Los Angeles Lakers forward Brandon Ingram wasn't shy about discussing the role he expects to play for the team as he comes off his four-game suspension.
"I'm not coming off the bench," Ingram said ahead of Monday's game. "I don't know the lineup, but I know I'll be in it.”
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this is going to be an issue. you didn't hear Lonzo and Kuz b*tching about not starting during the early part of the season. the time to trade BI is NOW, the guy has no desire in good for the team, all he cares is him being the starter and the primary ball handler. however there are two things he needs to understand:
1. we have LeBron's last 3-4 prime years, it's ALL about putting the team best suited for LeBron, not around Ingram.
2. Ingram needs to realize his limitation. he demands the ball, but what's he gonna do with it besides pounding it without any purpose for 10 seconds and then jack up a midrange shot which he also not even good at. |
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Sentient Meat
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:44 am Post subject: |
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Kuzma made a joke last night about his success being because of more reps.
He laughed... but you could tell part of him was serious.
The two might not be compatible in the long run and the last five games version of Kuzma might defeat Ingram if he doesn't start scoring better.
If Ingram can start scoring it will be a tough call for management.
If he doesn't then maybe Kuzma wins if he keeps up this scoring pace.
The rivalry seems to be real. |
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Runway8
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Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 22883
Location: La Jolla, San Diego
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| Lonzo-Lite wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | I hope BI embraces coming off bench. We have a good thing going and are winning so we don't wanna mess it up. The current starting lineup is lethal. Hopefully, he'll be a team player and think of what's best for the team. |
BI isn’t going to accept that, at least not anytime soon. Remember what Ingram said when he came back from his suspension?
| Quote: | Brandon Ingram: 'I'm Not Coming off the Bench'
Los Angeles Lakers forward Brandon Ingram wasn't shy about discussing the role he expects to play for the team as he comes off his four-game suspension.
"I'm not coming off the bench," Ingram said ahead of Monday's game. "I don't know the lineup, but I know I'll be in it.”
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This guy ain't good enough to talk like this. But it sheds light onto what he must be feeling seeing Kuzma doing well without him. On the other hand, I like it because it gives me hope he's going to be great. The cliche answer would be, "I'll do anything to help my team win." Sometimes I don't like that cliche answer either. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfever714 wrote: | | I hope BI embraces coming off bench. We have a good thing going and are winning so we don't wanna mess it up. The current starting lineup is lethal. Hopefully, he'll be a team player and think of what's best for the team. |
We beat the Heat by 3. If they were in our conference, they'd be 2nd to last. They aren't even a playoff team in the weak East. You're acting like we beat a good team or something. At least wait till the HOU game.
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | I hope BI embraces coming off bench. We have a good thing going and are winning so we don't wanna mess it up. The current starting lineup is lethal. Hopefully, he'll be a team player and think of what's best for the team. |
We beat the Heat by 3.  |
Because the bench was really bad. The starters looked great and Ingram and Rondo will drastically improve the bench. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | I hope BI embraces coming off bench. We have a good thing going and are winning so we don't wanna mess it up. The current starting lineup is lethal. Hopefully, he'll be a team player and think of what's best for the team. |
We beat the Heat by 3. If they were in our conference, they'd be 2nd to last. They aren't even a playoff team in the weak East. You're acting like we beat a good team or something. At least wait till the HOU game. |
That is true. But they also took down the Clips who are at the top of the WC.
Plus we destroyed a great Memphis team.
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | I hope BI embraces coming off bench. We have a good thing going and are winning so we don't wanna mess it up. The current starting lineup is lethal. Hopefully, he'll be a team player and think of what's best for the team. |
We beat the Heat by 3. If they were in our conference, they'd be 2nd to last. They aren't even a playoff team in the weak East. You're acting like we beat a good team or something. At least wait till the HOU game. |
We beat the Heat by 3 in a game where the starting lineup outscored Miami by 11 points in the 12 minutes that they played together. The version with Chandler instead of McGee outscored them by 2 in 6 minutes. This game wasn't close because the starters weren't good, it was close because the Lakers currently only have 7 rotation-caliber players that are healthy.
Here are the 4 lineups that have played the most minutes together this season and it tells a pretty stark story.
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LKA
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Location: Sin City
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | I hope BI embraces coming off bench. We have a good thing going and are winning so we don't wanna mess it up. The current starting lineup is lethal. Hopefully, he'll be a team player and think of what's best for the team. |
We beat the Heat by 3. If they were in our conference, they'd be 2nd to last. They aren't even a playoff team in the weak East. You're acting like we beat a good team or something. At least wait till the HOU game. |
We beat the Heat by 3 in a game where the starting lineup outscored Miami by 11 points in the 12 minutes that they played together. The version with Chandler instead of McGee outscored them by 2 in 6 minutes. This game wasn't close because the starters weren't good, it was close because the Lakers currently only have 7 rotation-caliber players that are healthy.
Here are the 4 lineups that have played the most minutes together this season and it tells a pretty stark story.
https://i.imgur.com/lMjPLV9.png |
Excellent analysis as always 👍 |
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matrixskillz
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:33 am Post subject: |
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Brandon who?
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kikanga
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | We beat the Heat by 3 in a game where the starting lineup outscored Miami by 11 points in the 12 minutes that they played together. The version with Chandler instead of McGee outscored them by 2 in 6 minutes. This game wasn't close because the starters weren't good, it was close because the Lakers currently only have 7 rotation-caliber players that are healthy.
Here are the 4 lineups that have played the most minutes together this season and it tells a pretty stark story.
https://i.imgur.com/lMjPLV9.png |
Using net rating stats from the whole season (like you just did) is a convincing argument. A reactionary take after a game against MIA (what I was reacting to) isn't.
I still would like to see what it looks like against HOU and WAS. Since they both have above average wing scorers. The offense looks great though. Lebron-ball works.
His Assist % on the year is 33%. In the 4 games we won without Ingram, it's 42.7%, 47.7%, 46.5%, and 54.4%.
Reminds me of his time in Cleveland last year. Let the best player in the world do more of the playmaking and good things will happen.
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Last edited by kikanga on Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:42 am; edited 5 times in total |
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Sentient Meat
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| LKA wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | I hope BI embraces coming off bench. We have a good thing going and are winning so we don't wanna mess it up. The current starting lineup is lethal. Hopefully, he'll be a team player and think of what's best for the team. |
We beat the Heat by 3. If they were in our conference, they'd be 2nd to last. They aren't even a playoff team in the weak East. You're acting like we beat a good team or something. At least wait till the HOU game. |
We beat the Heat by 3 in a game where the starting lineup outscored Miami by 11 points in the 12 minutes that they played together. The version with Chandler instead of McGee outscored them by 2 in 6 minutes. This game wasn't close because the starters weren't good, it was close because the Lakers currently only have 7 rotation-caliber players that are healthy.
Here are the 4 lineups that have played the most minutes together this season and it tells a pretty stark story.
https://i.imgur.com/lMjPLV9.png |
Excellent analysis as always 👍 |
The entire study is skewed by the one game where Kuzma went off huge
35 minutes?
If Kuzma played like that with any of the lineups the numbers look good.
I like the lineup because it has more shooting... but that's far from conclusive unless Kuzma plays like a 30 point all star every night. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:40 am Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | LKA wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | I hope BI embraces coming off bench. We have a good thing going and are winning so we don't wanna mess it up. The current starting lineup is lethal. Hopefully, he'll be a team player and think of what's best for the team. |
We beat the Heat by 3. If they were in our conference, they'd be 2nd to last. They aren't even a playoff team in the weak East. You're acting like we beat a good team or something. At least wait till the HOU game. |
We beat the Heat by 3 in a game where the starting lineup outscored Miami by 11 points in the 12 minutes that they played together. The version with Chandler instead of McGee outscored them by 2 in 6 minutes. This game wasn't close because the starters weren't good, it was close because the Lakers currently only have 7 rotation-caliber players that are healthy.
Here are the 4 lineups that have played the most minutes together this season and it tells a pretty stark story.
https://i.imgur.com/lMjPLV9.png |
Excellent analysis as always 👍 |
The entire study is skewed by the one game where Kuzma went off huge
35 minutes?
If Kuzma played like that with any of the lineups the numbers look good.
I like the lineup because it has more shooting... but that's far from conclusive unless Kuzma plays like a 30 point all star every night. |
last 5 games (3 w/out BI) 25/8/3.4/38.5% from 3s on 7.8 attempts.
That's a decent sample size to start with and monitor. How long is BI going to be out? No word on his ankle injury?
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kikanga
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:46 am Post subject: |
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Ingram at this time isn't good enough to take some of the playmaking responsibility away from Lebron. Magic said one of the reasons Lebron left CLE was because he didn't want to do all the playmaking.
But damn he's good at it. It's why he still made the finals without Kyrie.
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Sentient Meat
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Posts: 12978
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | LKA wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | I hope BI embraces coming off bench. We have a good thing going and are winning so we don't wanna mess it up. The current starting lineup is lethal. Hopefully, he'll be a team player and think of what's best for the team. |
We beat the Heat by 3. If they were in our conference, they'd be 2nd to last. They aren't even a playoff team in the weak East. You're acting like we beat a good team or something. At least wait till the HOU game. |
We beat the Heat by 3 in a game where the starting lineup outscored Miami by 11 points in the 12 minutes that they played together. The version with Chandler instead of McGee outscored them by 2 in 6 minutes. This game wasn't close because the starters weren't good, it was close because the Lakers currently only have 7 rotation-caliber players that are healthy.
Here are the 4 lineups that have played the most minutes together this season and it tells a pretty stark story.
https://i.imgur.com/lMjPLV9.png |
Excellent analysis as always 👍 |
The entire study is skewed by the one game where Kuzma went off huge
35 minutes?
If Kuzma played like that with any of the lineups the numbers look good.
I like the lineup because it has more shooting... but that's far from conclusive unless Kuzma plays like a 30 point all star every night. |
last 5 games (3 w/out BI) 25/8/3.4/38.5% from 3s on 7.8 attempts.
That's a decent sample size to start with and monitor. How long is BI going to be out? No word on his ankle injury? |
Anyone who watches games can see that Kuzma has thrived the last five games.
The question is whether he just got hot... or something fundamentally shifted that allowed him to get better shots.
If Hart created spacing for Kuzma to shoot better... this would be an argument but I think mostly he finally broke out of his slump.
Remember that the defense has been shaky so that needs to be considered as well... that Kuzma needs to score like this to offset the loss in defensive quality.
It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Anyone who watches games can see that Kuzma has thrived the last five games.
The question is whether he just got hot... or something fundamentally shifted that allowed him to get better shots.
If Hart created spacing for Kuzma to shoot better... this would be an argument but I think mostly he finally broke out of his slump.
Remember that the defense has been shaky so that needs to be considered as well... that Kuzma needs to score like this to offset the loss in defensive quality.
It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. |
Luke has had a few starting lineup shuffles due to injuries/suspensions/etc.
I think Kuz getting a solid slate of starting opportunities has provided him a better understanding of his role.
Previous 5 games to the ones I've listed above:
15/12r/6a
11/9/2
21/3/3
21/4/5
9/6
I think he's finally hitting his stride and look at last 5:
33/7/1
20/9/6
27/8/2
22/9/5
23/8/3
I think he "gets" where LBJ wants him to be on the floor now and it's reflected also by the recent 5 game stretch .
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