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PICKnPOP
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Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Posts: 5386
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 Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:56 am Post subject: |
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We have too much talent lol
Managing these egos must be difficult for Luke. I doubt there’s any chance Ingram comes off of the bench...can you blame him? He goes from being praised as tge face of the franchise and untouchable, to coming off the bench.
That would crush his confidence and morale.
Similar situation for Kuzma tbh.
Both hart and KCP probably feel like the should be starting and so does rondo.
If this team is going to be anything special they will have to put their egos aside and that’s not easy to do with all that money on the line.
Imo the best starting lineup for the way we want to play is
Lonzo/rondo
kcp/hart
Lebron/Ingram
Kuzma/Beasley
McGee/Chandler
But then you’re asking lance to sit on the bench and he really doesn’t deserve that.
You’re asking Ingram to come off the bench and he’s been playing just fine
Hart has outplayed KCP but KCP is better at chasing guards around screens, perimeter defense and playing off ball imo (even if his shot isn’t falling yet).
I honestly think Beasley is being benched right now because he’s the only one mature enough to handle it with so much talent on the roster. He looked solid defensively in the limited minutes I saw him in. I think he cracks the rotation after a trade. A trade has to be looming imo and a guard and forward will be traded.
With this lineup the bench would play more of a halfcourt offense than the starting lineup. They can slow it down and feature rondo and Ingram |
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Outspoken
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Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 8453
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:49 am Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | Staccatos wrote: |
Yup Ball and Stephenson is probably one of the worst if not the worst combination for Lakers lineups as shown by those 4 man lineups.
You'll notice that all the Ball/Hart 4 man lineups were net positive though. |
Hart should be starting with Lonzo, Ingram, James, and McGee. |
No, Kuz should be starting over BI. The lineup data shows our best lineup to be Zo, Hart, Bron, Kuz, McGee and the eye test corroborates it. |
Data also shows that we are better with LeBron sitting. Also it's not a big enough sample size with Zo, Hart, BI, james, and McGee to even talk about data. Watching the game Kuz isn't that good at defense and it disrupts the team defense because others have to pick up his man. Kuzma isn't shooting the ball from the 3 that well this season, Brandon Ingram is actually shooting better from behind the arch and Brandon Ingram does everything else better than Kuz, at 21. Kuz is 23 and spent more time developing in college. Kuz should be our Ginobili off the bench. |
Y’all have fallen into the trap of thinking a 6th man of the year type player is somebody who strictly puts up a lot of points. You’re misunderstanding how those guys get their points. They are often guys who dominate the ball, that isn’t Kuz, it’s BI. IT, Crawford, Manu, Lamar etc they are guys who like having the ball but usually aren’t good enough to be the primary option in a good first unit. They are given a second unit to utilize their ability to carry an offense. BI has that ability, Kuz doesn’t. Kuz is an off ball spot up shooter who is an excellent cutter and the best on the team at attacking close outs. That’s what fits perfectly with LeBron. I understand the defensive concerns but the lineup with Hart instead of Ingram has still been one of our best defensive ones by the numbers. Ingram will be BETTER in the second unit and will be able to fill a more natural role. Still play him 30ish minutes but a lot with the second unit. Luke needs to make this change ASAP. |
I'm not gonna talk about numbers because there is not a big enough sample size for either line ups. I only know that BI is a better defender than Kuz and Hart is a better defender than kuz. Brandon Ingram is better all around than Kuz including 3 point, Hart does more things better than kuz, including 3 point. Also I'm not talking about 6th man if the year, I'm talking about better or good off the bench, that could be potential starters. Kuz have shown to be better off the bench than a starter. He does not need to dominate the ball, we have rondo coming off the bench to feed him. All those players you named, didn't have a rondo type point coming off the bench with them. |
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noahp45
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Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 6572
Location: Oceanside Ca
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| Lets do what the Celtics did and Trade Luke for Pop |
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Outspoken
Star Player
Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 8453
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| CervantesRises wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | Staccatos wrote: |
Yup Ball and Stephenson is probably one of the worst if not the worst combination for Lakers lineups as shown by those 4 man lineups.
You'll notice that all the Ball/Hart 4 man lineups were net positive though. |
Hart should be starting with Lonzo, Ingram, James, and McGee. |
No, Kuz should be starting over BI. The lineup data shows our best lineup to be Zo, Hart, Bron, Kuz, McGee and the eye test corroborates it. |
Data also shows that we are better with LeBron sitting. Also it's not a big enough sample size with Zo, Hart, BI, james, and McGee to even talk about data. Watching the game Kuz isn't that good at defense and it disrupts the team defense because others have to pick up his man. Kuzma isn't shooting the ball from the 3 that well this season, Brandon Ingram is actually shooting better from behind the arch and Brandon Ingram does everything else better than Kuz, at 21. Kuz is 23 and spent more time developing in college. Kuz should be our Ginobili off the bench. |
Y’all have fallen into the trap of thinking a 6th man of the year type player is somebody who strictly puts up a lot of points. You’re misunderstanding how those guys get their points. They are often guys who dominate the ball, that isn’t Kuz, it’s BI. IT, Crawford, Manu, Lamar etc they are guys who like having the ball but usually aren’t good enough to be the primary option in a good first unit. They are given a second unit to utilize their ability to carry an offense. BI has that ability, Kuz doesn’t. Kuz is an off ball spot up shooter who is an excellent cutter and the best on the team at attacking close outs. That’s what fits perfectly with LeBron. I understand the defensive concerns but the lineup with Hart instead of Ingram has still been one of our best defensive ones by the numbers. Ingram will be BETTER in the second unit and will be able to fill a more natural role. Still play him 30ish minutes but a lot with the second unit. Luke needs to make this change ASAP. |
I think there is a great argument for BI to come off the bench...Ball Handling and Iso Scoring.
And there's a great argument for Kuz to come off the bench...his defense is hot kitty crap 85% of the time, he's lost on D and doesn't offer any rebounding.
What we can all agree on is that Hart needs to be a starter along side Zo.
I personally think our best lineup will be Zo, Hart, BI, Bron, Tyson
Which gives us Rondo, Kuz, Javale, KCP, and one of Svi, Moe, Lance or even Beasy to pick up the extra minutes.
We start doing that and I think we are a top 4 team in the West by season's end. |
My sentiments as well. I like that you added svi too, because I feel we should be playing him more. The problem with that is, I don't think Luke wants to hurt anyone's feelings and there are other veteran players that Luke likes to play more. I don't necessarily think it's entirely about winning with Luke, even though it should be. In Luke's defense, it's hard to manage egos. Luke played svi more, others would be in their feelings about it and might disrupt the team. I know there's a "well ship them out" sentiment, but that's not always the best message to send. |
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Outspoken
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Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 8453
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| noahp45 wrote: | | Lets do what the Celtics did and Trade Luke for Pop |
Lol |
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Sina
Star Player
Joined: 12 Jul 2015
Posts: 1812
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| Luke has make good adjustments lately. I hope he could design some sets for LeBron and train him to be Kobe like game closer. |
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KB824MJ
Star Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2015
Posts: 1349
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| I know some don't like his coaching but every 2 or more days rest they've played better. 3rd straight game tonight that he's gotten them playing better. They just need more time together |
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LakerMindLA
Star Player
Joined: 26 Dec 2008
Posts: 5344
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Will Luke almost cost the Lakers another game by playin Rondo so much again. |
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bandiger
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Joined: 02 Apr 2014
Posts: 12555
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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Coach Puke  |
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mhan00
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 32067
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Luke needs to fix his rotations. Rondo playing 16+straight game minutes to end games isn’t sustainable or smart, especially on the first game of a back to back. |
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LakerMindLA
Star Player
Joined: 26 Dec 2008
Posts: 5344
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| mhan00 wrote: | | Luke needs to fix his rotations. Rondo playing 16+straight game minutes to end games isn’t sustainable or smart, especially on the first game of a back to back. |
if Luke doesn’t want to go with Ball to end the game, he should be going with Hart or KCP instead of Rondo.
That will give Lebron more room to operate and improve late game defense. |
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greenfrog
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Joined: 02 Jan 2011
Posts: 36081
Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| He stopped the switching on Fox, which neutralized him in the second half, but why did they think it was a good idea to begin with that strategy? |
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repandpresent
Starting Rotation
Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 552
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| mhan00 wrote: | | Luke needs to fix his rotations. Rondo playing 16+straight game minutes to end games isn’t sustainable or smart, especially on the first game of a back to back. |
Luckily all that did was give the Lakers a much needed road win. I wonder what people would say if Zo was subbed in and Fox went atomic in a comeback win. |
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Megaton
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Joined: 18 Feb 2015
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Staccatos
Star Player
Joined: 16 Jul 2002
Posts: 2416
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Dammit - Luke's fault again! |
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mhan00
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 32067
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| repandpresent wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | Luke needs to fix his rotations. Rondo playing 16+straight game minutes to end games isn’t sustainable or smart, especially on the first game of a back to back. |
Luckily all that did was give the Lakers a much needed road win. I wonder what people would say if Zo was subbed in and Fox went atomic in a comeback win. |
1. Fox scored on Zo once. The rest of his scores came from switches or on other guys covering him.
2. You don’t need to put Zo back in if you don’t trust him. Bron and BI are more than capable of handling the ball. Bring Hart or KCP or even Lance back in and give Rondo a rest instead of playing him long, straight game minutes early in the season, especially on he first game of a back to back. |
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PhiberOptik
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Joined: 25 Aug 2003
Posts: 4255
Location: San Francisco, CA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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Props to Luke for running some half court triangle sets. Also ran a Steph Curry screen play for KCP. 
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Let's Go Lakers!!! |
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chantruong
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Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 8894
Location: SGV
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Wasn't a fan of putting the starters back in the 4th. Felt that the current unit was hot and could take us home. Regardless, I can't be mad at a win |
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ringfinger
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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Glad to pile some wins together. But I still don’t see what our team identity is. |
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Megaton
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Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 25648
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| PhiberOptik wrote: | | Props to Luke for running some half court triangle sets. Also ran a Steph Curry screen play for KCP. |
We might as well bring Phil Jackson back though if that’s the kind of half court offense we run with. Best coach to ever use it anyway.
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repandpresent
Starting Rotation
Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 552
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| mhan00 wrote: | | repandpresent wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | Luke needs to fix his rotations. Rondo playing 16+straight game minutes to end games isn’t sustainable or smart, especially on the first game of a back to back. |
Luckily all that did was give the Lakers a much needed road win. I wonder what people would say if Zo was subbed in and Fox went atomic in a comeback win. |
1. Fox scored on Zo once. The rest of his scores came from switches or on other guys covering him.
2. You don’t need to put Zo back in if you don’t trust him. Bron and BI are more than capable of handling the ball. Bring Hart or KCP or even Lance back in and give Rondo a rest instead of playing him long, straight game minutes early in the season, especially on he first game of a back to back. |
That's fair, but the new narrative would have been how come Luke didn't play a true PG. I'm sure you have been here since the start of the season so you notice that NO MATTER what Luke does, someone always has something negative to say.
The nitpicking in hard earn wins is beyond me. |
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trablos
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Joined: 10 May 2017
Posts: 3020
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Call me crazy, but I feel like KCP should be put back at the starting 2 so Hart and Kuz can tear up opposing reserve units. BI at SG is taking him out of his element and I'm getting sick of seeing Lance, Rondo, and KCP on the floor at the same time. |
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trablos
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Joined: 10 May 2017
Posts: 3020
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Glad to pile some wins together. But I still don’t see what our team identity is. |
Run, run, run |
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PRLakeShow
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Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 10460
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Chandler has really helped out Luke. No more dumb small ball lineups to rip on. Still don't like Rondo playing so many straight minutes to end the game. I could nitpick here and there but he's been okay last couple of games. |
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socalsp3
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Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 3502
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Putting lebron back in there was hitting the panic button too early and not having confidence in the bench or his ability to coach with a big lead without lebron |
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