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SGV-Laker fan Star Player
Joined: 23 May 2013 Posts: 8842
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Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:58 pm Post subject: Andrew Wiggins' assist number is very alarming |
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the guy is only averaging 1.2 assists a game on a stacked KU team while playing over 30 minutes a game. that's a very alarming sign for a perimeter player who's potentially a no. 1 overall pick. |
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Corey78 Star Player
Joined: 22 Apr 2001 Posts: 1677 Location: Cerritos, California
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Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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I don't put much weight into that. He's not exposing his full game at Kansas. Right now he's just a finisher. He's playing as a cog in the offense. |
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kaoss128 Franchise Player
Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 13058 Location: Morgantown, WV
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Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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Kevin Durant averaged 1.3 assists. |
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mastersworddude Star Player
Joined: 25 Aug 2012 Posts: 1937
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Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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He barely ever handles the ball. |
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AIRZOOMKOBE2k5 Star Player
Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 1702 Location: Redondo
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Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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Bill Self sucks. Such a bad decision to go to KU. He should've went to a school where they would've featured him as the primary option. Instead he goes to a stacked team. I'm starting to think this kid is just another Demar Derozan. |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58318
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Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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He's not a PG, he's not a SG. He's a SF. Most SF's are scorers, and even KD as someone mentioned averaged only 1.3 apg back in the day at Texas.
That said, I have my doubts this guy will be as good as KD, and I see quite a bit of him on since he's Canadian. He doesn't have KD's natural instincts to score/shoot the ball from outside and just dominate a game. KD at Texas was ridiculous.
To me thus far I see more of a guy who likes to finish plays, be an outstanding athlete and make an impact that way than a guy you could say you could run your O around start through finish.
I honestly see more of a cross between Durant and Vince Carter than anything else. I don't see someone who will become as good as Durant is, but that's my totally unprofessional scouting report on him. I do think he'll be better than Vince Carter, and will play a lot like Vince, in that you won't feel he can carry the game by himself, but will be outstanding at getting to the rim, dunking, finishing those plays etc.
At 18 years old though you can still develop a lot of BH skills and some PG instincts. Pippen never had that much BH/PG skills until he met Phil Jackson and that coaching staff and was encouraged to work on them. But for sure, I feel this will not be in the class of Lebron or Kobe. He just lacks so many of the things they had at the same age. He'll be very good, and barring a career changing injury, a multiple time all-star.
IMO if you're a team drafting in the top 5, you're happy if you're picking #2 or 3. I think this draft will turn out in a way where guys will regret taking Wiggins at #1 over guys drafted later in the top 5. |
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Fan0Bynum17 Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Nov 2005 Posts: 15436
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Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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wolfpaclaker wrote: | He's not a PG, he's not a SG. He's a SF. Most SF's are scorers, and even KD as someone mentioned averaged only 1.3 apg back in the day at Texas.
That said, I have my doubts this guy will be as good as KD, and I see quite a bit of him on since he's Canadian. He doesn't have KD's natural instincts to score/shoot the ball from outside and just dominate a game. KD at Texas was ridiculous.
To me thus far I see more of a guy who likes to finish plays, be an outstanding athlete and make an impact that way than a guy you could say you could run your O around start through finish.
I honestly see more of a cross between Durant and Vince Carter than anything else. I don't see someone who will become as good as Durant is, but that's my totally unprofessional scouting report on him. I do think he'll be better than Vince Carter, and will play a lot like Vince, in that you won't feel he can carry the game by himself, but will be outstanding at getting to the rim, dunking, finishing those plays etc.
At 18 years old though you can still develop a lot of BH skills and some PG instincts. Pippen never had that much BH/PG skills until he met Phil Jackson and that coaching staff and was encouraged to work on them. But for sure, I feel this will not be in the class of Lebron or Kobe. He just lacks so many of the things they had at the same age. He'll be very good, and barring a career changing injury, a multiple time all-star.
IMO if you're a team drafting in the top 5, you're happy if you're picking #2 or 3. I think this draft will turn out in a way where guys will regret taking Wiggins at #1 over guys drafted later in the top 5. |
Then why was he being mentioned as a potential PG when he was drafted? |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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As long as his A/TO ratio floats around 1:1 or better, nothing to worry about. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58318
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Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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Fan0Bynum17 wrote: | wolfpaclaker wrote: | He's not a PG, he's not a SG. He's a SF. Most SF's are scorers, and even KD as someone mentioned averaged only 1.3 apg back in the day at Texas.
That said, I have my doubts this guy will be as good as KD, and I see quite a bit of him on since he's Canadian. He doesn't have KD's natural instincts to score/shoot the ball from outside and just dominate a game. KD at Texas was ridiculous.
To me thus far I see more of a guy who likes to finish plays, be an outstanding athlete and make an impact that way than a guy you could say you could run your O around start through finish.
I honestly see more of a cross between Durant and Vince Carter than anything else. I don't see someone who will become as good as Durant is, but that's my totally unprofessional scouting report on him. I do think he'll be better than Vince Carter, and will play a lot like Vince, in that you won't feel he can carry the game by himself, but will be outstanding at getting to the rim, dunking, finishing those plays etc.
At 18 years old though you can still develop a lot of BH skills and some PG instincts. Pippen never had that much BH/PG skills until he met Phil Jackson and that coaching staff and was encouraged to work on them. But for sure, I feel this will not be in the class of Lebron or Kobe. He just lacks so many of the things they had at the same age. He'll be very good, and barring a career changing injury, a multiple time all-star.
IMO if you're a team drafting in the top 5, you're happy if you're picking #2 or 3. I think this draft will turn out in a way where guys will regret taking Wiggins at #1 over guys drafted later in the top 5. |
Then why was he being mentioned as a potential PG when he was drafted? |
Wasn't aware of that. As I understand it, Pippen was asked to be a PG only once Collins stepped aside and PJ took over. Maybe that was just talk that made the Bulls hype, but I recall articles on how Pippen developed his BH and PG skills only after his NBA career began. Note I know many guys have PG skills before that, but when Pippen was drafted was he drafted for the PG position? I never saw him in college, so I'll take your word for it. And it wouldn't shock me if you are right and I'm wrong (As I'm going on second hand info, and never saw Pippen in college). |
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malicious_intent Starting Rotation
Joined: 10 Mar 2012 Posts: 602
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Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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I see his ceiling as iguadala, but that's just my opinion. if I had the number 1 pick in this draft im taking embiid. |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90299 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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wolfpaclaker wrote: | Fan0Bynum17 wrote: | wolfpaclaker wrote: | He's not a PG, he's not a SG. He's a SF. Most SF's are scorers, and even KD as someone mentioned averaged only 1.3 apg back in the day at Texas.
That said, I have my doubts this guy will be as good as KD, and I see quite a bit of him on since he's Canadian. He doesn't have KD's natural instincts to score/shoot the ball from outside and just dominate a game. KD at Texas was ridiculous.
To me thus far I see more of a guy who likes to finish plays, be an outstanding athlete and make an impact that way than a guy you could say you could run your O around start through finish.
I honestly see more of a cross between Durant and Vince Carter than anything else. I don't see someone who will become as good as Durant is, but that's my totally unprofessional scouting report on him. I do think he'll be better than Vince Carter, and will play a lot like Vince, in that you won't feel he can carry the game by himself, but will be outstanding at getting to the rim, dunking, finishing those plays etc.
At 18 years old though you can still develop a lot of BH skills and some PG instincts. Pippen never had that much BH/PG skills until he met Phil Jackson and that coaching staff and was encouraged to work on them. But for sure, I feel this will not be in the class of Lebron or Kobe. He just lacks so many of the things they had at the same age. He'll be very good, and barring a career changing injury, a multiple time all-star.
IMO if you're a team drafting in the top 5, you're happy if you're picking #2 or 3. I think this draft will turn out in a way where guys will regret taking Wiggins at #1 over guys drafted later in the top 5. |
Then why was he being mentioned as a potential PG when he was drafted? |
Wasn't aware of that. As I understand it, Pippen was asked to be a PG only once Collins stepped aside and PJ took over. Maybe that was just talk that made the Bulls hype, but I recall articles on how Pippen developed his BH and PG skills only after his NBA career began. Note I know many guys have PG skills before that, but when Pippen was drafted was he drafted for the PG position? I never saw him in college, so I'll take your word for it. And it wouldn't shock me if you are right and I'm wrong (As I'm going on second hand info, and never saw Pippen in college). |
Pippen was a guard in high school, and was 6-1 when he went to college. That's why he didn't draw bigger scholarship offers. He grew 6-7" in college, but he was always a ballhandler. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Fan0Bynum17 Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Nov 2005 Posts: 15436
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Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:41 am Post subject: |
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wolfpaclaker wrote: | Fan0Bynum17 wrote: | wolfpaclaker wrote: | He's not a PG, he's not a SG. He's a SF. Most SF's are scorers, and even KD as someone mentioned averaged only 1.3 apg back in the day at Texas.
That said, I have my doubts this guy will be as good as KD, and I see quite a bit of him on since he's Canadian. He doesn't have KD's natural instincts to score/shoot the ball from outside and just dominate a game. KD at Texas was ridiculous.
To me thus far I see more of a guy who likes to finish plays, be an outstanding athlete and make an impact that way than a guy you could say you could run your O around start through finish.
I honestly see more of a cross between Durant and Vince Carter than anything else. I don't see someone who will become as good as Durant is, but that's my totally unprofessional scouting report on him. I do think he'll be better than Vince Carter, and will play a lot like Vince, in that you won't feel he can carry the game by himself, but will be outstanding at getting to the rim, dunking, finishing those plays etc.
At 18 years old though you can still develop a lot of BH skills and some PG instincts. Pippen never had that much BH/PG skills until he met Phil Jackson and that coaching staff and was encouraged to work on them. But for sure, I feel this will not be in the class of Lebron or Kobe. He just lacks so many of the things they had at the same age. He'll be very good, and barring a career changing injury, a multiple time all-star.
IMO if you're a team drafting in the top 5, you're happy if you're picking #2 or 3. I think this draft will turn out in a way where guys will regret taking Wiggins at #1 over guys drafted later in the top 5. |
Then why was he being mentioned as a potential PG when he was drafted? |
Wasn't aware of that. As I understand it, Pippen was asked to be a PG only once Collins stepped aside and PJ took over. Maybe that was just talk that made the Bulls hype, but I recall articles on how Pippen developed his BH and PG skills only after his NBA career began. Note I know many guys have PG skills before that, but when Pippen was drafted was he drafted for the PG position? I never saw him in college, so I'll take your word for it. And it wouldn't shock me if you are right and I'm wrong (As I'm going on second hand info, and never saw Pippen in college). |
Pippen drafted |
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AIRZOOMKOBE2k5 Star Player
Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 1702 Location: Redondo
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Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:56 am Post subject: |
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malicious_intent wrote: | I see his ceiling as iguadala, but that's just my opinion. if I had the number 1 pick in this draft im taking embiid. |
What no one else is mentioning is health. I know you really shouldn't take that into account but the guys only been playing ball for three years. Yeah in that time he's made tremendous strides to make himself a top 5 prospect. However, he has yet to truly put stress on his body. I don't really know what he did before basketball so we truly can't judge how he will handle an 82 game season.
For me
1. Parker
2. Embiid
3. Wiggins
4. Randle
5. Gordon
6. Exum
7. Smart
PGs go last cause I firmly believe you don't need elite PGs to win titles. |
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postandpivot Retired Number
Joined: 16 Sep 2003 Posts: 36822
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Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:54 am Post subject: |
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wolfpaclaker wrote: | Fan0Bynum17 wrote: | wolfpaclaker wrote: | He's not a PG, he's not a SG. He's a SF. Most SF's are scorers, and even KD as someone mentioned averaged only 1.3 apg back in the day at Texas.
That said, I have my doubts this guy will be as good as KD, and I see quite a bit of him on since he's Canadian. He doesn't have KD's natural instincts to score/shoot the ball from outside and just dominate a game. KD at Texas was ridiculous.
To me thus far I see more of a guy who likes to finish plays, be an outstanding athlete and make an impact that way than a guy you could say you could run your O around start through finish.
I honestly see more of a cross between Durant and Vince Carter than anything else. I don't see someone who will become as good as Durant is, but that's my totally unprofessional scouting report on him. I do think he'll be better than Vince Carter, and will play a lot like Vince, in that you won't feel he can carry the game by himself, but will be outstanding at getting to the rim, dunking, finishing those plays etc.
At 18 years old though you can still develop a lot of BH skills and some PG instincts. Pippen never had that much BH/PG skills until he met Phil Jackson and that coaching staff and was encouraged to work on them. But for sure, I feel this will not be in the class of Lebron or Kobe. He just lacks so many of the things they had at the same age. He'll be very good, and barring a career changing injury, a multiple time all-star.
IMO if you're a team drafting in the top 5, you're happy if you're picking #2 or 3. I think this draft will turn out in a way where guys will regret taking Wiggins at #1 over guys drafted later in the top 5. |
Then why was he being mentioned as a potential PG when he was drafted? |
Wasn't aware of that. As I understand it, Pippen was asked to be a PG only once Collins stepped aside and PJ took over. Maybe that was just talk that made the Bulls hype, but I recall articles on how Pippen developed his BH and PG skills only after his NBA career began. Note I know many guys have PG skills before that, but when Pippen was drafted was he drafted for the PG position? I never saw him in college, so I'll take your word for it. And it wouldn't shock me if you are right and I'm wrong (As I'm going on second hand info, and never saw Pippen in college). | Ghill was taught pg skills by coach K. he learned it. and got to the nba and was a nice point forward himself.
so that can be taught to some guys. _________________ LAL4K3RS wrote: He(Kobe) is the white haired kung fu master that you realize is older than dirt but can still kick your arse when in a sitting position drinking a nice herbal tea. |
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LakersDC Star Player
Joined: 11 Feb 2009 Posts: 1504
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Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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wolfpaclaker wrote: | He's not a PG, he's not a SG. He's a SF. Most SF's are scorers, and even KD as someone mentioned averaged only 1.3 apg back in the day at Texas.
That said, I have my doubts this guy will be as good as KD, and I see quite a bit of him on since he's Canadian. He doesn't have KD's natural instincts to score/shoot the ball from outside and just dominate a game. KD at Texas was ridiculous.
To me thus far I see more of a guy who likes to finish plays, be an outstanding athlete and make an impact that way than a guy you could say you could run your O around start through finish.
I honestly see more of a cross between Durant and Vince Carter than anything else. I don't see someone who will become as good as Durant is, but that's my totally unprofessional scouting report on him. I do think he'll be better than Vince Carter, and will play a lot like Vince, in that you won't feel he can carry the game by himself, but will be outstanding at getting to the rim, dunking, finishing those plays etc.
At 18 years old though you can still develop a lot of BH skills and some PG instincts. Pippen never had that much BH/PG skills until he met Phil Jackson and that coaching staff and was encouraged to work on them. But for sure, I feel this will not be in the class of Lebron or Kobe. He just lacks so many of the things they had at the same age. He'll be very good, and barring a career changing injury, a multiple time all-star.
IMO if you're a team drafting in the top 5, you're happy if you're picking #2 or 3. I think this draft will turn out in a way where guys will regret taking Wiggins at #1 over guys drafted later in the top 5. |
I don't think most people expect Wiggins to be as good or better than KD. KD has already proved himself to be a HOF player and he could easily go down as a top 20 player when it is all said and done. Sure Wiggins has hype, but if he is a perennial All-star, he will have been a success. KD on the other hand is a perennial All-star that will likely win at least one MVP and a championship. |
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mhan00 Retired Number
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 32025
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Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:24 am Post subject: |
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His inconsistency against college opponents is alarming. I've seen three games of his, and he's looked pretty bad in all three. For a sure fire prospect, he looks like a more athletic version of Wes Johnson than Lebron James. Same tendency to stick to perimeter jumpers or one or two dribble pull up jumpers with the occasional attack in open court, too. |
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MambaMentality Starting Rotation
Joined: 25 Jul 2013 Posts: 373
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Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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Not even looking like TMac caliber at this point. |
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postandpivot Retired Number
Joined: 16 Sep 2003 Posts: 36822
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Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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MambaMentality wrote: | Not even looking like TMac caliber at this point. | tmac never played college ball with other top notch players on his team vs true zone defense. and on a team where they wont force feed you and no one else.
i think kobe would've been shackled if he ever played college ball. you have to play for certain coaches and on certain teams not to be shackled as a college wing scorer that isnt the point guard.
people say but but durant... but but who else was on durant's team? exactly. durant was the main guy on that team and the next guy was a long ways off. very long ways off. _________________ LAL4K3RS wrote: He(Kobe) is the white haired kung fu master that you realize is older than dirt but can still kick your arse when in a sitting position drinking a nice herbal tea. |
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postandpivot Retired Number
Joined: 16 Sep 2003 Posts: 36822
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Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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mhan00 wrote: | His inconsistency against college opponents is alarming. I've seen three games of his, and he's looked pretty bad in all three. For a sure fire prospect, he looks like a more athletic version of Wes Johnson than Lebron James. Same tendency to stick to perimeter jumpers or one or two dribble pull up jumpers with the occasional attack in open court, too. | again. how can he be lebron james if he's not given the ball to run the team ...like lebron james? he cant. now thats not his thing. he's a scorer. so next question. how can he be durant from texas. if they dont run play after play after play to get him the ball in multiple scoring positions all over the court to make him successful? because you know thats what they do when you have a super scorer on your team and the next scorer on your team is not even close to your abilities. but thats not the case for wiggins. if he wanted to be featured the entire game. he should've gone to a school where he's the only big time player. _________________ LAL4K3RS wrote: He(Kobe) is the white haired kung fu master that you realize is older than dirt but can still kick your arse when in a sitting position drinking a nice herbal tea. |
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postandpivot Retired Number
Joined: 16 Sep 2003 Posts: 36822
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Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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MambaMentality wrote: | Not even looking like TMac caliber at this point. | oh one more thing. actually he's more tmac then anything else.
i dont think you remember the young tmac do you?
Code: | <PRE>
Season Age Tm Pos G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1997-98 18 TOR SF 64 17 18.4 2.8 6.2 .450 0.2 0.6 .341 2.6 5.6 .462 1.2 1.7 .712 1.6 2.6 4.2 1.5 0.8 1.0 1.0 1.3 7.0
1998-99 19 TOR SF 49 2 22.6 3.4 7.9 .436 0.2 0.7 .229 3.3 7.1 .457 2.3 3.2 .726 2.4 3.2 5.7 2.3 1.1 1.3 1.6 1.9 9.3
1999-00 20 TOR SF 79 34 31.2 5.8 12.9 .451 0.2 0.8 .277 5.6 12.1 .463 3.5 5.0 .707 2.4 4.0 6.3 3.3 1.1 1.9 2.0 2.5 15.4
</PRE>
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Thats tmac's first 3 years in the nba playing with vince carter not having a lot of plays ran for him. just taking what he could get. at least wiggins has a 3ball already. tmac couldnt shoot back then. _________________ LAL4K3RS wrote: He(Kobe) is the white haired kung fu master that you realize is older than dirt but can still kick your arse when in a sitting position drinking a nice herbal tea. |
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