Wow, he really looks awesome and fluid in there. The only thing about bigs in the NCAA vs NBA is that in the NBA the athleticism, length and size is legit vs in the NCAA it clearly looks like a man vs boys.
If some of the straight out of HS into NBA bigs played in the NCAA trust me they'd look just as dominant as this kid.
But he does look extremely fluid and that is NOT easy to find in a big guy. If he keeps this up, I'm with Mike. I'd draft him over Wiggins.
(bleep) sick draft this year. I so wish Lakers had a top 3-5 pick. I may be in the minority - but I actually like Parker, Smart, Embiid and Randle more than Wiggins. I feel Wiggins will be maybe a Dominique type of guy - really good player high flying act on a lot of bad teams. Some of these other guys, I think they play a position and role, that they'll transform the franchise they go to immediately.
Freaking amazing draft to be in the top part of it.
He may not be perceived as quick or jump as high as Hakeem, but I think we're judging a polished Akeem Olajuwon out of college.
Honestly, I would debate Embiid #1. All of the physical tools with the hoop IQ, should make adding a post game naturally easy. Fluid athlete with mobile, heavy feet. Once those feet are set, they're planted, and that's idea for holding post position. Nevermind the fact that he's unselfish and has a shooting touch at the FT line.
I have no problem with this, I'm very impressed with his natural abilities too, but Olajuwon's athleticism wasn't a matter of polish, and Embiid doesn't have it, so lets just cool it with saying he's like some carbon copy of him.
Wow, he really looks awesome and fluid in there. The only thing about bigs in the NCAA vs NBA is that in the NBA the athleticism, length and size is legit vs in the NCAA it clearly looks like a man vs boys.
If some of the straight out of HS into NBA bigs played in the NCAA trust me they'd look just as dominant as this kid.
But he does look extremely fluid and that is NOT easy to find in a big guy. If he keeps this up, I'm with Mike. I'd draft him over Wiggins.
(bleep) sick draft this year. I so wish Lakers had a top 3-5 pick. I may be in the minority - but I actually like Parker, Smart, Embiid and Randle more than Wiggins. I feel Wiggins will be maybe a Dominique type of guy - really good player high flying act on a lot of bad teams. Some of these other guys, I think they play a position and role, that they'll transform the franchise they go to immediately.
Freaking amazing draft to be in the top part of it.
No, us achieving the illustrious goal of getting 42 wins this year is far more important
And predictably, Embiid is now being listed as the #1 pick in NBAdraft.net mocks ... Big guy who shows balance and coordination on O, has athleticism and D. Yep, #1 pick.
Not really impressed with Embid can be a good player but i don't see a 20/10 player. Parker and Randle are the only 2 guys i see that have legit superstar talent and can be 1st options. I would also take Marcus Smart over Embid. Wiggins vs Embid would be close but i would lean towards Wiggins. Embid and Lavine would be a toss up but Embid is 5th or 6th on my board as far as upside and potential.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:39 am Post subject:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
And predictably, Embiid is now being listed as the #1 pick in NBAdraft.net mocks ... Big guy who shows balance and coordination on O, has athleticism and D. Yep, #1 pick.
Wiggins fallen to #3. Vince Carter 2.0
Called it 2 weeks ago. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
I wouldn't even say he's a good ball handler in the open court. It's possible he meets the hype, but he's going to have to improve on so much to do it, and not every capable of that. Banking on a player, even a 19 year old to significantly improve their ball handling and ability to create off the dribble in the half court for themselves and for others is a very risky move. I'd say he's definitely still worthy of a top 3 pick, but he was clearly overrated in HS, which is sad.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:47 am Post subject:
Fan0Bynum17 wrote:
I wouldn't even say he's a good ball handler in the open court. It's possible he meets the hype, but he's going to have to improve on so much to do it, and not every capable of that. Banking on a player, even a 19 year old to significantly improve their ball handling and ability to create off the dribble in the half court for themselves and for others is a very risky move. I'd say he's definitely still worthy of a top 3 pick, but he was clearly overrated in HS, which is sad.
This is why I disagreed with the Tracy McGrady comments.
What makes it more odd is, during HS, he looked better. He was more confident with his ball-handling, shot-making, defense, and intensity.
He looks like, and plays like, a killer 3rd option on offense. The problem is, no one knows if he'll show up, or explode onto the scene like Gilbert Arenas and James Harden did. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
I wouldn't even say he's a good ball handler in the open court. It's possible he meets the hype, but he's going to have to improve on so much to do it, and not every capable of that. Banking on a player, even a 19 year old to significantly improve their ball handling and ability to create off the dribble in the half court for themselves and for others is a very risky move. I'd say he's definitely still worthy of a top 3 pick, but he was clearly overrated in HS, which is sad.
This is why I disagreed with the Tracy McGrady comments.
What makes it more odd is, during HS, he looked better. He was more confident with his ball-handling, shot-making, defense, and intensity.
He looks like, and plays like, a killer 3rd option on offense. The problem is, no one knows if he'll show up, or explode onto the scene like Gilbert Arenas and James Harden did.
My Rudy Gay comparisons don't seem that far out. _________________ A banana is killed every time a terrible thread or post is made. Save the bananas. Stop creating terrible posts!
Let's hope so. I'll gladly play the role of Detroit in this scenario. _________________ A banana is killed every time a terrible thread or post is made. Save the bananas. Stop creating terrible posts!
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:24 am Post subject:
GoldenThroat wrote:
The Drummondization of Wiggins has begun.
I wouldn't call it Drummondization. Drummond never seemed to lack the motor and activity level, he just needed to harness it, even if his IQ was completely lacking.
Wiggins has some IQ. But, what's the reason for lack of activity?
Would you still take him at #1?
The difference between motor is like Kwame Brown vs. Tyson Chandler. Chandler is a far more limited player, but far more impactful. Team USA. NBA Championship. Cornerstone franchise player.
Kwame Brown? NBA mediocrity.
In years past I would have easily considered Wiggins #1 no matter what. Now, with competition from fellow freshman? It's more difficult to make that choice. Parker is the safest bet up there. There's confidence Embiid is going to hit his upside because of his instincts and motor. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
I wouldn't even say he's a good ball handler in the open court. It's possible he meets the hype, but he's going to have to improve on so much to do it, and not every capable of that. Banking on a player, even a 19 year old to significantly improve their ball handling and ability to create off the dribble in the half court for themselves and for others is a very risky move. I'd say he's definitely still worthy of a top 3 pick, but he was clearly overrated in HS, which is sad.
This is why I disagreed with the Tracy McGrady comments.
What makes it more odd is, during HS, he looked better. He was more confident with his ball-handling, shot-making, defense, and intensity.
He looks like, and plays like, a killer 3rd option on offense. The problem is, no one knows if he'll show up, or explode onto the scene like Gilbert Arenas and James Harden did.
Those things can look better with poorer competition, but there's also the possibility that maybe he's not as assertive being on a more talented team.
What I've been learning is that with how much the NBA completely caters to perimeter players, don't underestimate the potential for a perimeter player's game to open up and blossom going from college to the NBA, given enough length and/or athleticism.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:32 am Post subject:
Fan0Bynum17 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Fan0Bynum17 wrote:
I wouldn't even say he's a good ball handler in the open court. It's possible he meets the hype, but he's going to have to improve on so much to do it, and not every capable of that. Banking on a player, even a 19 year old to significantly improve their ball handling and ability to create off the dribble in the half court for themselves and for others is a very risky move. I'd say he's definitely still worthy of a top 3 pick, but he was clearly overrated in HS, which is sad.
This is why I disagreed with the Tracy McGrady comments.
What makes it more odd is, during HS, he looked better. He was more confident with his ball-handling, shot-making, defense, and intensity.
He looks like, and plays like, a killer 3rd option on offense. The problem is, no one knows if he'll show up, or explode onto the scene like Gilbert Arenas and James Harden did.
Those things can look better with poorer competition, but there's also the possibility that maybe he's not as assertive being on a more talented team.
What I've been learning is that with how much the NBA completely caters to perimeter players, don't underestimate the potential for a perimeter player's game to open up and blossom going from college to the NBA, given enough length and/or athleticism.
Perhaps, but he still played against elite HS competition like the Nike Hoops Summit and still wrecked shop.
It's more along the lines of... He's really raw, literally jumped over everyone in Hs, and he's a cog in the Kansas offense. Watch Kansas games and you see some elite defense being played by Wiggins, but impacful play on both ends by Embiid and Perry Ellis. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Joined: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 33474 Location: Long Beach, California
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:38 am Post subject:
I think Parker is the safest bet followed by Randle, but you have a half dozen guys with higher celings than both of them, including Exum, Smart, Embiid, and Wiggens... not to mention Gordon and Levine.
If I had a draft board, it would go Embiid, Wiggens, Exum, Smart, Parker, Gordon, Levine and Randle. Funny how this draft class begins to look like the Lebron (Wiggens), Melo (Parker) and Wade (Exum) draft. One has to wonder if they will match up and whether, keeping with the analogy, Embiid is another Darko or not. _________________ LakersGround's Terms of Service
I think Parker is the safest bet followed by Randle, but you have a half dozen guys with higher celings than both of them, including Exum, Smart, Embiid, and Wiggens... not to mention Gordon and Levine.
If I had a draft board, it would go Embiid, Wiggens, Exum, Smart, Parker, Gordon, Levine and Randle. Funny how this draft class begins to look like the Lebron (Wiggens), Melo (Parker) and Wade (Smart) draft. One has to wonder if they will match up and whether, keeping with the analogy, Embiid is another Darko or not.
I wouldn't even say he's a good ball handler in the open court. It's possible he meets the hype, but he's going to have to improve on so much to do it, and not every capable of that. Banking on a player, even a 19 year old to significantly improve their ball handling and ability to create off the dribble in the half court for themselves and for others is a very risky move. I'd say he's definitely still worthy of a top 3 pick, but he was clearly overrated in HS, which is sad.
This is why I disagreed with the Tracy McGrady comments.
What makes it more odd is, during HS, he looked better. He was more confident with his ball-handling, shot-making, defense, and intensity.
He looks like, and plays like, a killer 3rd option on offense. The problem is, no one knows if he'll show up, or explode onto the scene like Gilbert Arenas and James Harden did.
Those things can look better with poorer competition, but there's also the possibility that maybe he's not as assertive being on a more talented team.
What I've been learning is that with how much the NBA completely caters to perimeter players, don't underestimate the potential for a perimeter player's game to open up and blossom going from college to the NBA, given enough length and/or athleticism.
Perhaps, but he still played against elite HS competition like the Nike Hoops Summit and still wrecked shop.
It's more along the lines of... He's really raw, literally jumped over everyone in Hs, and he's a cog in the Kansas offense. Watch Kansas games and you see some elite defense being played by Wiggins, but impacful play on both ends by Embiid and Perry Ellis.
Those games seemed a little more opened up than what he's seeing now, which I guess is a good sign, but I still didn't really see reliable ball handling or creation off the dribble (minus quick moves to the basket and pull ups). I already kind of expect that the lack of an open game is hiding a lot of his abilities, abilities that will show once he gets to the NBA, but his weaknesses at creating off the dribble have always been there, he just can't hide it as much now without more open lanes. Can he be a franchise player as just a 1-2 dribble slasher? No, at that point he's just a 6'8 Jason Richardson, big deal.
I think the Kansas offense is at least partially holding him back, with his lack of natural assertiveness (although it seems he can turn it on when he's motivated enough,) Self's offense doesn't exactly lend itself to Wiggins, considering it's a pass it around half-court offense with no real PG. I almost kind of wish he went to a school where they'd just give it to him nearly every play and force him to be the man, even if he was on a worse team.
Last edited by Fan0Bynum17 on Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:57 pm; edited 2 times in total
I wouldn't call it Drummondization. Drummond never seemed to lack the motor and activity level, he just needed to harness it, even if his IQ was completely lacking.
Wiggins has some IQ. But, what's the reason for lack of activity?
Would you still take him at #1?
The difference between motor is like Kwame Brown vs. Tyson Chandler. Chandler is a far more limited player, but far more impactful. Team USA. NBA Championship. Cornerstone franchise player.
Kwame Brown? NBA mediocrity.
In years past I would have easily considered Wiggins #1 no matter what. Now, with competition from fellow freshman? It's more difficult to make that choice. Parker is the safest bet up there. There's confidence Embiid is going to hit his upside because of his instincts and motor.
I disagree. People were definitely questioning his activity level at UCONN.
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