|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
DaMuleRules
Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52663
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
|
 Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| LakerLanny wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | Although I am a minority, and consider myself generally a centrist, I am generally more likely to vote for a Republican candidate so long as on social issues, they aren't too conservative. This election season, I voted for Hillary. Albeit, reluctantly. And it had little to do with Trump's position on social issues because I don't really believe he is the racist and bigot people are painting him to be and more to do with Hillary's history on environmental issues and her generally more centrist position overall.
That said, I spent a lot of the week talking to different Trump supporters, to try to get a better understanding of why they voted the way they did.
My conclusion? The outcome has nothing to do with race, gender, LGBT rights, etc. What I'm seeing from my friends on the left, is that for them, those issues are paramount, at the top of their respective list. Above things like job creation and other economic factors.
From the non-elite Trump supporters I spoke to, it wasn't so much that they disregard the social issues, I found they just didn't consider them to be more important than economic ones. Employment, the economy, in simple terms, how to make the next rent payment and who is going to give me the best chance of doing that.
I guess the moral of the story, for me anyway, is that sometimes, maybe even often times, the issues that are important to me or you are not always equally important to someone else. I think, on both sides, we forget or even ignore that sometimes. For the vast majority people on both sides of the fence that I know, they all care, often in the same way, about the same issues. The difference is in how they prioritize those issues.
It's hard to fault someone for making a choice that they feel is best for their family even if it might not be for mine. |
Great post and pretty similar to what I said a few pages back.
Social issues were most important to the left (at least it appears that way) and economic issues were more important to the right.
For me, social issues pale in comparison to economic issues. I also think in general the idea that more government is the answer to fixing the countries problems has been proven to be a bad one.
To just brand anyone who voted for Trump as homophobes, sexists or racists while ignoring the issues that propelled him to the election win is a poorly reasoned viewpoint. |
As is the dismissal of Freedoms as simply being "social issues".
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
ChefLinda
Moderator
Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 24166
Location: Boston
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
When you vote for a candidate who openly courts white nationalists, KKK, began his campaign insulting Mexicans, Muslims and women, went on to be revealed as a serial sex offender, and then you choose to vote for that person anyway, you are in essence CONDONING those behaviors and telling your children those behaviors are acceptable. You can't vote for the racist/bigot/misogynist, watch as those attitudes create violence, then say, "Oh well, I'm not a racist I only voted for him." No. You helped create the outcome. You can't vote for a racist then divorce yourself from racism.
And by the way, social issues ARE economic issues -- if you're not a white male. Equal pay for equal work for women, ability to control your own reproductive choices affects ability to go to college, earn income, etc. The ability of LGTB people to legally marry affects their social security, insurance benefits, etc. -- all economic matters. Education and tuition -- all economic matters. The environment -- more floods, more extreme storms, more tornadoes, all cost billions of dollars to the economy -- all economic matters. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nordvader
Star Player
Joined: 21 Jan 2012
Posts: 1662
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ChefLinda wrote: | When you vote for a candidate who openly courts white nationalists, KKK, began his campaign insulting Mexicans, Muslims and women, went on to be revealed as a serial sex offender, and then you choose to vote for that person anyway, you are in essence CONDONING those behaviors and telling your children those behaviors are acceptable. You can't vote for the racist/bigot/misogynist, watch as those attitudes create violence, then say, "Oh well, I'm not a racist I only voted for him." No. You helped create the outcome. You can't vote for a racist then divorce yourself from racism.
And by the way, social issues ARE economic issues -- if you're not a white male. Equal pay for equal work for women, ability to control your own reproductive choices affects ability to go to college, earn income, etc. The ability of LGTB people to legally marry affects their social security, insurance benefits, etc. -- all economic matters. Education and tuition -- all economic matters. The environment -- more floods, more extreme storms, more tornadoes, all cost billions of dollars to the economy -- all economic matters. |
I was going post something similar to this, but you said it much better than I ever could have. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
trmiv
Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Nov 2001
Posts: 17661
Location: Orlando
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| DaMuleRules wrote: | It's been an "interesting" week.
Trump won and we are told that we should just accept it and move on. The idea of making the displeasure of seeing the candidate who won the popular vote lose the Presidency in the form of protest is derided by the Right.
Yet there seems to be no grace and dignity in victory from them:
‘Silicon Valley’ Stars Tweet About Ugly Barroom Run-In With Trump Supporters |
These are the vile scum that inhabit the the_donald subreddit on Reddit. I can't believe this country empowered these people. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DaMuleRules
Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52663
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ChefLinda wrote: | When you vote for a candidate who openly courts white nationalists, KKK, began his campaign insulting Mexicans, Muslims and women, went on to be revealed as a serial sex offender, and then you choose to vote for that person anyway, you are in essence CONDONING those behaviors and telling your children those behaviors are acceptable. You can't vote for the racist/bigot/misogynist, watch as those attitudes create violence, then say, "Oh well, I'm not a racist I only voted for him." No. You helped create the outcome. You can't vote for a racist then divorce yourself from racism.
And by the way, social issues ARE economic issues -- if you're not a white male. Equal pay for equal work for women, ability to control your own reproductive choices affects ability to go to college, earn income, etc. The ability of LGTB people to legally marry affects their social security, insurance benefits, etc. -- all economic matters. Education and tuition -- all economic matters. The environment -- more floods, more extreme storms, more tornadoes, all cost billions of dollars to the economy -- all economic matters. |
Bravo Linda!
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AY2043
Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Posts: 10621
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 3:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| LakerLanny wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | Although I am a minority, and consider myself generally a centrist, I am generally more likely to vote for a Republican candidate so long as on social issues, they aren't too conservative. This election season, I voted for Hillary. Albeit, reluctantly. And it had little to do with Trump's position on social issues because I don't really believe he is the racist and bigot people are painting him to be and more to do with Hillary's history on environmental issues and her generally more centrist position overall.
That said, I spent a lot of the week talking to different Trump supporters, to try to get a better understanding of why they voted the way they did.
My conclusion? The outcome has nothing to do with race, gender, LGBT rights, etc. What I'm seeing from my friends on the left, is that for them, those issues are paramount, at the top of their respective list. Above things like job creation and other economic factors.
From the non-elite Trump supporters I spoke to, it wasn't so much that they disregard the social issues, I found they just didn't consider them to be more important than economic ones. Employment, the economy, in simple terms, how to make the next rent payment and who is going to give me the best chance of doing that.
I guess the moral of the story, for me anyway, is that sometimes, maybe even often times, the issues that are important to me or you are not always equally important to someone else. I think, on both sides, we forget or even ignore that sometimes. For the vast majority people on both sides of the fence that I know, they all care, often in the same way, about the same issues. The difference is in how they prioritize those issues.
It's hard to fault someone for making a choice that they feel is best for their family even if it might not be for mine. |
Great post and pretty similar to what I said a few pages back.
Social issues were most important to the left (at least it appears that way) and economic issues were more important to the right.
For me, social issues pale in comparison to economic issues. I also think in general the idea that more government is the answer to fixing the countries problems has been proven to be a bad one.
To just brand anyone who voted for Trump as homophobes, sexists or racists while ignoring the issues that propelled him to the election win is a poorly reasoned viewpoint. |
But why someone who cares more about economic issues vote for Trump? Everything he intends to do is based on this false premise of a massive growth in GDP. There's literally nothing that could possibly happen for the US to reach the numbers he's projecting. Second, the manufacturing jobs he wants to bring back to the US aren't going to be nearly of the quality that he is promising, or that his voters expect.
Further, I assume that most of the people that did vote for him are the same ones that have been screaming about the national debt for the last 8 years. Trump will increase the debt by about 5-10 trillion in his first term alone. If he wants to offset that, we're going to see some massive cuts to a lot of necessary government programs -- meaning we'll probably see the end of a ton of environmental initiatives.
I don't think everyone that voted for Trump is a sexist, racist, homophobe, but honestly, there's a lot that are. I mean, you can't vote for the guy's policy intitiatives, because he didn't have any. You talk to any Trump supporter, their answer is "I like how he says what's on his mind and how he isn't politically correct." Implicit in that statement is that people like what he has to say. And the only things that he takes strong stances on are immigration (Mexicans are rapists), banning Muslims (they're all terrorists), and "I'm the law and order candidate" (black people are dangerous and violent and the police should be forgiven for beating/shooting them). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17880
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 3:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| LakerLanny wrote: |
Great post and pretty similar to what I said a few pages back.
Social issues were most important to the left (at least it appears that way) and economic issues were more important to the right.
For me, social issues pale in comparison to economic issues. I also think in general the idea that more government is the answer to fixing the countries problems has been proven to be a bad one.
To just brand anyone who voted for Trump as homophobes, sexists or racists while ignoring the issues that propelled him to the election win is a poorly reasoned viewpoint. |
Problem is Trump's economic ideas are mostly horrible as well. His base is going to be very disappointed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Deathstroke
Star Player
Joined: 10 Dec 2015
Posts: 2131
Location: OC
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 3:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ChefLinda wrote: | When you vote for a candidate who openly courts white nationalists, KKK, began his campaign insulting Mexicans, Muslims and women, went on to be revealed as a serial sex offender, and then you choose to vote for that person anyway, you are in essence CONDONING those behaviors and telling your children those behaviors are acceptable. You can't vote for the racist/bigot/misogynist, watch as those attitudes create violence, then say, "Oh well, I'm not a racist I only voted for him." No. You helped create the outcome. You can't vote for a racist then divorce yourself from racism.
And by the way, social issues ARE economic issues -- if you're not a white male. Equal pay for equal work for women, ability to control your own reproductive choices affects ability to go to college, earn income, etc. The ability of LGTB people to legally marry affects their social security, insurance benefits, etc. -- all economic matters. Education and tuition -- all economic matters. The environment -- more floods, more extreme storms, more tornadoes, all cost billions of dollars to the economy -- all economic matters. |
Excellent post |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ribeye
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2001
Posts: 12638
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 3:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| DaMuleRules wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | When you vote for a candidate who openly courts white nationalists, KKK, began his campaign insulting Mexicans, Muslims and women, went on to be revealed as a serial sex offender, and then you choose to vote for that person anyway, you are in essence CONDONING those behaviors and telling your children those behaviors are acceptable. You can't vote for the racist/bigot/misogynist, watch as those attitudes create violence, then say, "Oh well, I'm not a racist I only voted for him." No. You helped create the outcome. You can't vote for a racist then divorce yourself from racism.
And by the way, social issues ARE economic issues -- if you're not a white male. Equal pay for equal work for women, ability to control your own reproductive choices affects ability to go to college, earn income, etc. The ability of LGTB people to legally marry affects their social security, insurance benefits, etc. -- all economic matters. Education and tuition -- all economic matters. The environment -- more floods, more extreme storms, more tornadoes, all cost billions of dollars to the economy -- all economic matters. |
Bravo Linda! |
Yep. To add, the issue is not just ideology or partisanship: Republican versus Democrat, rural versus metropolitan, liberal versus conservative, big government versus small government. It is about character, decency versus indecency, civility versus impropriety, and yes, right versus wrong.
Donald Trump represents just about every unsavory characteristic a human being can have. And no, this is not based what is said about him, or made up phony or specious political issues, by the press or otherwise, but on his own words and actions.
He is what we teach our children not to be.
_________________
"A metronome keeps time by using a Ringo" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
greenfrog
Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011
Posts: 36081
Location: 502 Bad Gateway
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Basketball Fan
Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Posts: 24769
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 3:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| DaMuleRules wrote: | | Basketball Fan wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | It's been an "interesting" week.
Trump won and we are told that we should just accept it and move on. The idea of making the displeasure of seeing the candidate who won the popular vote lose the Presidency in the form of protest is derided by the Right.
Yet there seems to be no grace and dignity in victory from them:
‘Silicon Valley’ Stars Tweet About Ugly Barroom Run-In With Trump Supporters |
Except these protests have crossed the line with riots if the roles were reversed you would be saying the exact same thing about them they are saying about those who are protesting right now.
I'm all for peaceful protests but when you start burning things and beating people for supporting Trump you are no better than the people you pretend to be morally superior to either.
I say this as someone who hates both political parties.
That being said Trump is just a figurehead it will be Mike Pence as president and as someone who lives in the State he was Governor at I'm not thrilled. |
SOME have. That doesn't remotely describe ALL of them. And I have condemned the ones that have crossed the line. Thousands of people marched peacefully in Los Angeles this morning.
The point is that the Right is deride ALL manner of protest, peaceful or otherwise. They have criticized the very of idea of even expressing the displeasure of seeing the candidate who won the Popular Vote not gain the Presidency. |
And you act as if the Left wouldn't do the same thing? Sure.
Like I said I don't like either party for this reason they are the same coin just different sides.
Here's a thought not everyone is completely liberal or completely conservative for the most part there are people that are in the middle of the road. I like to see a candidate embody that but hey that isn't much of a soundbite and "boring" for the media to cover.
Which is a large part of why we are in this disastrous situation. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ocho
Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 53855
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 3:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The first gut punch this week was Trump getting elected. The second was the way liberals and Democrats have chosen to react to it. I appreciate those who have been gracious and committed to real action. I wish the rest would focus their energies on being productive about this.
_________________
14-5-3-12 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
trmiv
Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Nov 2001
Posts: 17661
Location: Orlando
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 3:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Considerations for Trump's administration. I sure hope this is speculation and not people being considered. What a joke. It's a murders row of the worst politicians and people imaginable. "Drain the swamp" my ass.
www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/us/politics/donald-trump-administration.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DaMuleRules
Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52663
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 4:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Basketball Fan wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Basketball Fan wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | It's been an "interesting" week.
Trump won and we are told that we should just accept it and move on. The idea of making the displeasure of seeing the candidate who won the popular vote lose the Presidency in the form of protest is derided by the Right.
Yet there seems to be no grace and dignity in victory from them:
‘Silicon Valley’ Stars Tweet About Ugly Barroom Run-In With Trump Supporters |
Except these protests have crossed the line with riots if the roles were reversed you would be saying the exact same thing about them they are saying about those who are protesting right now.
I'm all for peaceful protests but when you start burning things and beating people for supporting Trump you are no better than the people you pretend to be morally superior to either.
I say this as someone who hates both political parties.
That being said Trump is just a figurehead it will be Mike Pence as president and as someone who lives in the State he was Governor at I'm not thrilled. |
SOME have. That doesn't remotely describe ALL of them. And I have condemned the ones that have crossed the line. Thousands of people marched peacefully in Los Angeles this morning.
The point is that the Right is deride ALL manner of protest, peaceful or otherwise. They have criticized the very of idea of even expressing the displeasure of seeing the candidate who won the Popular Vote not gain the Presidency. |
And you act as if the Left wouldn't do the same thing? Sure.
Like I said I don't like either party for this reason they are the same coin just different sides.
Here's a thought not everyone is completely liberal or completely conservative for the most part there are people that are in the middle of the road. I like to see a candidate embody that but hey that isn't much of a soundbite and "boring" for the media to cover.
Which is a large part of why we are in this disastrous situation. |
That's not what people who are truly on the Left stand for. Those of us who believe in liberal philosophies understand that the right to peacefully assemble and protest is afforded to all. I've seen plenty of protests I don't agree with, but as long as they are peaceful I accept them. Plenty of people stood there with their "Go back to Kenya!" signs 8 years ago. Those of us on the Left may not have liked it, but we didn't advocate they be silenced.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DaMuleRules
Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52663
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 4:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| trmiv wrote: | Considerations for Trump's administration. I sure hope this is speculation and not people being considered. What a joke. It's a murders row of the worst politicians and people imaginable. "Drain the swamp" my ass.
www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/us/politics/donald-trump-administration.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur |
The people whom he has already appointed to his transition team should scare the hell of people for what is in store - on BOTH sides.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DaMuleRules
Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52663
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 4:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ocho wrote: | | The first gut punch this week was Trump getting elected. The second was the way liberals and Democrats have chosen to react to it. I appreciate those who have been gracious and committed to real action. I wish the rest would focus their energies on being productive about this. |
I have no problem with how liberals and Democrats have reacted. There may be a few idiots who chose to demonstrate their displeasure in inappropriate ways, but they are a minority and do not represent me as a liberal or a Democrat, nor the group at large. There have been plenty of productive responses to this outcome. Most of the people on the Left I know have already resolved to make an effort to be more involved and proactive to find ways to counter the damage. We are having in depth conversations with our kids, who will be part of the next group of voters, to inform them about what went wrong and to urge them to use their emotions and beliefs as motivation to make a difference the next time around.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Basketball Fan
Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Posts: 24769
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 4:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| DaMuleRules wrote: | | Basketball Fan wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Basketball Fan wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | It's been an "interesting" week.
Trump won and we are told that we should just accept it and move on. The idea of making the displeasure of seeing the candidate who won the popular vote lose the Presidency in the form of protest is derided by the Right.
Yet there seems to be no grace and dignity in victory from them:
‘Silicon Valley’ Stars Tweet About Ugly Barroom Run-In With Trump Supporters |
Except these protests have crossed the line with riots if the roles were reversed you would be saying the exact same thing about them they are saying about those who are protesting right now.
I'm all for peaceful protests but when you start burning things and beating people for supporting Trump you are no better than the people you pretend to be morally superior to either.
I say this as someone who hates both political parties.
That being said Trump is just a figurehead it will be Mike Pence as president and as someone who lives in the State he was Governor at I'm not thrilled. |
SOME have. That doesn't remotely describe ALL of them. And I have condemned the ones that have crossed the line. Thousands of people marched peacefully in Los Angeles this morning.
The point is that the Right is deride ALL manner of protest, peaceful or otherwise. They have criticized the very of idea of even expressing the displeasure of seeing the candidate who won the Popular Vote not gain the Presidency. |
And you act as if the Left wouldn't do the same thing? Sure.
Like I said I don't like either party for this reason they are the same coin just different sides.
Here's a thought not everyone is completely liberal or completely conservative for the most part there are people that are in the middle of the road. I like to see a candidate embody that but hey that isn't much of a soundbite and "boring" for the media to cover.
Which is a large part of why we are in this disastrous situation. |
That's not what people who are truly on the Left stand for. Those of us who believe in liberal philosophies understand that the right to peacefully assemble and protest is afforded to all. I've seen plenty of protests I don't agree with, but as long as they are peaceful I accept them. Plenty of people stood there with their "Go back to Kenya!" signs 8 years ago. Those of us on the Left may not have liked it, but we didn't advocate they be silenced. |
Except a lot of them are saying the same thing people are saying about the Right. I know many from the Right said this is not what they are truly about either and yet there were many others who did say those things about Obama and his election and reeelection.
The thing is all the stuff I'm hearing now from the Right complaining about the Left years ago to accept the elections results right now sound awfully familiar to what I heard 8 years ago just a role reversal and Trump is intentionally divisive as a candidate moreseo than Obama ever was.
But really the Left have to look in the mirror and blame themselves for letting it get to this point they focused on social issues Trump tapped into the racial hatred the working class had for illegal immigrants etc who were taking their jobs away. To his credit it worked. They also chose the worst possible person to represent them. Probably any other democrat would've won but her.
But it shows that while Hilary thought that women were going to vote for her because they were fellow women she failed to realize that white women especially those married to these white men who resent these immigrants are going to vote race first gender second. They still get their white privilege by extension of their husbands.
For some reason the media doesn't want to express the racism and xenophobia that still exists in this country. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DuncanIdaho
Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 17251
Location: In a no-ship
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 5:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ocho wrote: | | The first gut punch this week was Trump getting elected. The second was the way liberals and Democrats have chosen to react to it. I appreciate those who have been gracious and committed to real action. I wish the rest would focus their energies on being productive about this. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DuncanIdaho
Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 17251
Location: In a no-ship
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 5:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| DaMuleRules wrote: | | trmiv wrote: | Considerations for Trump's administration. I sure hope this is speculation and not people being considered. What a joke. It's a murders row of the worst politicians and people imaginable. "Drain the swamp" my ass.
www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/us/politics/donald-trump-administration.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur |
The people whom he has already appointed to his transition team should scare the hell of people for what is in store - on BOTH sides. |
We survived many of these people for 8 years in W's administration. We'll survive again. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LakerSanity
Moderator
Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 33474
Location: Long Beach, California
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 5:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| DaMuleRules wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | The first gut punch this week was Trump getting elected. The second was the way liberals and Democrats have chosen to react to it. I appreciate those who have been gracious and committed to real action. I wish the rest would focus their energies on being productive about this. |
I have no problem with how liberals and Democrats have reacted. There may be a few idiots who chose to demonstrate their displeasure in inappropriate ways, but they are a minority and do not represent me as a liberal or a Democrat, nor the group at large. There have been plenty of productive responses to this outcome. Most of the people on the Left I know have already resolved to make an effort to be more involved and proactive to find ways to counter the damage. We are having in depth conversations with our kids, who will be part of the next group of voters, to inform them about what went wrong and to urge them to use their emotions and beliefs as motivation to make a difference the next time around. |
I think Trump wanted people talking about him and his supporters rather than his policies. And I think that continuing to do so just feeds into what allowed him to win and will feed into what will allow him to enact horrible legislation while the we all remain distracted. Time to be smart. Focus your attack on his policies, not him.
_________________
LakersGround's Terms of Service
Twitter: @DeleteThisPost |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DaMuleRules
Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52663
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 5:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| DuncanIdaho wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | trmiv wrote: | Considerations for Trump's administration. I sure hope this is speculation and not people being considered. What a joke. It's a murders row of the worst politicians and people imaginable. "Drain the swamp" my ass.
www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/us/politics/donald-trump-administration.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur |
The people whom he has already appointed to his transition team should scare the hell of people for what is in store - on BOTH sides. |
We survived many of these people for 8 years in W's administration. We'll survive again. |
You're not wrong. But the two steps back nature of it sucks. Especially when the stakes for many have become much higher.
I once survived a horrible car wreck that I shouldn't have. Doesn't mean I'm willing to do it again. 
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DuncanIdaho
Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 17251
Location: In a no-ship
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 5:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| DaMuleRules wrote: | | DuncanIdaho wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | trmiv wrote: | Considerations for Trump's administration. I sure hope this is speculation and not people being considered. What a joke. It's a murders row of the worst politicians and people imaginable. "Drain the swamp" my ass.
www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/us/politics/donald-trump-administration.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur |
The people whom he has already appointed to his transition team should scare the hell of people for what is in store - on BOTH sides. |
We survived many of these people for 8 years in W's administration. We'll survive again. |
You're not wrong. But the two steps back nature of it sucks. Especially when the stakes for many have become much higher.
I once survived a horrible car wreck that I shouldn't have. Doesn't mean I'm willing to do it again. |
You're not wrong man, I totally agree. Seeing such a blowhard as John Bolton, one of the guys so instrumental in us invading Iraq in 2003 as a front-runner for Secretary of State makes me freaking sick.
It's too bad the Obama admin didn't charge him, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld and that whole cabal with war crimes 8 years ago. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
trmiv
Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Nov 2001
Posts: 17661
Location: Orlando
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 5:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| DuncanIdaho wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | DuncanIdaho wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | trmiv wrote: | Considerations for Trump's administration. I sure hope this is speculation and not people being considered. What a joke. It's a murders row of the worst politicians and people imaginable. "Drain the swamp" my ass.
www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/us/politics/donald-trump-administration.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur |
The people whom he has already appointed to his transition team should scare the hell of people for what is in store - on BOTH sides. |
We survived many of these people for 8 years in W's administration. We'll survive again. |
You're not wrong. But the two steps back nature of it sucks. Especially when the stakes for many have become much higher.
I once survived a horrible car wreck that I shouldn't have. Doesn't mean I'm willing to do it again. |
You're not wrong man, I totally agree. Seeing such a blowhard as John Bolton, one of the guys so instrumental in us invading Iraq in 2003 as a front-runner for Secretary of State makes me freaking sick.
It's too bad the Obama admin didn't charge him, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld and that whole cabal with war crimes 8 years ago. |
Thats the thing. A lot of good people DIDN'T survive W's administration precisely because of people like John Bolton. And here we go again. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DaMuleRules
Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52663
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 5:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| LakerSanity wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | The first gut punch this week was Trump getting elected. The second was the way liberals and Democrats have chosen to react to it. I appreciate those who have been gracious and committed to real action. I wish the rest would focus their energies on being productive about this. |
I have no problem with how liberals and Democrats have reacted. There may be a few idiots who chose to demonstrate their displeasure in inappropriate ways, but they are a minority and do not represent me as a liberal or a Democrat, nor the group at large. There have been plenty of productive responses to this outcome. Most of the people on the Left I know have already resolved to make an effort to be more involved and proactive to find ways to counter the damage. We are having in depth conversations with our kids, who will be part of the next group of voters, to inform them about what went wrong and to urge them to use their emotions and beliefs as motivation to make a difference the next time around. |
I think Trump wanted people talking about him and his supporters rather than his policies. And I think that continuing to do so just feeds into what allowed him to win and will feed into what will allow him to enact horrible legislation while the we all remain distracted. Time to be smart. Focus your attack on his policies, not him. |
I get your point, and it's a good one.
However, this isn't a situation of looking at a guy like either of the Bushes (or the Clintons/Obama if you're from that perspective) and thinking, I don't like what this man is doing and I don't respect the man. We are talking about a very miserable excuse for a man who intentionally brought out the worst in this country to serve himself. It'd be highly unwise to ignore that, and quite frankly that's not the message I want to send my kids.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LakerSanity
Moderator
Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 33474
Location: Long Beach, California
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 6:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| DaMuleRules wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | The first gut punch this week was Trump getting elected. The second was the way liberals and Democrats have chosen to react to it. I appreciate those who have been gracious and committed to real action. I wish the rest would focus their energies on being productive about this. |
I have no problem with how liberals and Democrats have reacted. There may be a few idiots who chose to demonstrate their displeasure in inappropriate ways, but they are a minority and do not represent me as a liberal or a Democrat, nor the group at large. There have been plenty of productive responses to this outcome. Most of the people on the Left I know have already resolved to make an effort to be more involved and proactive to find ways to counter the damage. We are having in depth conversations with our kids, who will be part of the next group of voters, to inform them about what went wrong and to urge them to use their emotions and beliefs as motivation to make a difference the next time around. |
I think Trump wanted people talking about him and his supporters rather than his policies. And I think that continuing to do so just feeds into what allowed him to win and will feed into what will allow him to enact horrible legislation while the we all remain distracted. Time to be smart. Focus your attack on his policies, not him. |
I get your point, and it's a good one.
However, this isn't a situation of looking at a guy like either of the Bushes (or the Clintons/Obama if you're from that perspective) and thinking, I don't like what this man is doing and I don't respect the man. We are talking about a very miserable excuse for a man who intentionally brought out the worst in this country to serve himself. It'd be highly unwise to ignore that, and quite frankly that's not the message I want to send my kids. |
No one is asking you to ignore that. Be angry, and steer that anger into something that will actually change minds and make sure this won't happen again. Thats gotta be somethibg different than attacking Trump himself, because constantly talking about how deplorable he and his supporters are may feel good, but it's also exactly what got us President Trump in the first place.
_________________
LakersGround's Terms of Service
Twitter: @DeleteThisPost |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
