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Chronicle
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 Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:51 am Post subject: |
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I apologize for being that guy, but it's been so long since the last season(s). Can someone please recap;
How did Hank come to the conclusion in the bathroom?
What's the significance of the tracker in the car?
Why did Walt kill Mike?
That last scene though. The entire time I was just thinking "wow". Acting at its finest. Should win awards. Sometimes you can tell how much better a series is because of the writing. The writing is what makes it good. But when you have great actors to act out that writing, just wow. I remember why I loved this show so much. Can't believe they put that all in the first episode.
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dont_be_a_wuss
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| Chronicle wrote: |
How did Hank come to the conclusion in the bathroom? |
Previously, in season 4, Hank was showing Walter some of the evidence from the Gale case. He showed him an inscription in Gale's notebook that was written to a "W.W." Hank jokingly accused Walter, and walter jokingly said "you got me".
Hank see's a similar note in Walters book (written in the same style) and this time it is certain that W.W. means walter white. Hank then checks the handwriting and puts the clues together.
(not sure why walt copped to it in the garage so easily.)
| Quote: | | What's the significance of the tracker in the car? |
Hank once had Walter put that same tracker on Gus's car. So Walter recognized it and figured Hank put it there, which means Hank must be on to him.
| Quote: | | Why did Walt kill Mike? |
Mike kidnapped Walt and tried to steal his precursor. He had also been testing Walt all season with legacy costs. The boss doesn't like people going against his wishes.
He was also a loose end. Cops were on to him, and who knows how loyal he would be if the cops involved his his grand daughter. Everyone was talking to the DEA at that point of the season. The laundry guy was about to talk, the lawyer talked and gave up Mike, etc. |
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Chronicle
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:55 am Post subject: |
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Thanks. Didn't it turn out that killing Mike was actually not necessary or something?
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dont_be_a_wuss
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| Chronicle wrote: | | Thanks. Didn't it turn out that killing Mike was actually not necessary or something? |
Probably not, because Mike was going to disappear, but remember Mike wanted to kill Lydia for trying to kill his guys (and him). Walter doesn't want to have that hanging over his head after he finished off the list.
And Walter took Mike's gun from the go bag. Perhaps Walt felt Mike would kill him with it, and chose himself over Mike. Lots of possibilities. |
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LarryCoon
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | Chronicle wrote: | | Quote: | | Why did Walt kill Mike? |
Mike kidnapped Walt and tried to steal his precursor. He had also been testing Walt all season with legacy costs. The boss doesn't like people going against his wishes.
He was also a loose end. Cops were on to him, and who knows how loyal he would be if the cops involved his his grand daughter. Everyone was talking to the DEA at that point of the season. The laundry guy was about to talk, the lawyer talked and gave up Mike, etc. |
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Also, ostensibly Walt wanted the names of the 11 guys in jail from Mike, and Mike wouldn't give them to him. Walt shot Mike as he was trying to drive away, but when he caught up to him by the river he said, "I realized I don't need to get the names from you. Lydia has them." (Paraphrasing).
Not sure if that was hopelessly shallow on the part of the writers. All the sudden Walt remembers this important element in those few seconds. Sure.
But if it wasn't, then I'm not sure what it was. He seemed to really need the names before he shot Mike, and if his plan to was to kill him all along, demanding those names as a precursor to killing him doesn't make sense either. |
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dont_be_a_wuss
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:06 am Post subject: |
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| LarryCoon wrote: | | dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | Chronicle wrote: | | Quote: | | Why did Walt kill Mike? |
Mike kidnapped Walt and tried to steal his precursor. He had also been testing Walt all season with legacy costs. The boss doesn't like people going against his wishes.
He was also a loose end. Cops were on to him, and who knows how loyal he would be if the cops involved his his grand daughter. Everyone was talking to the DEA at that point of the season. The laundry guy was about to talk, the lawyer talked and gave up Mike, etc. |
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Also, ostensibly Walt wanted the names of the 11 guys in jail from Mike, and Mike wouldn't give them to him. Walt shot Mike as he was trying to drive away, but when he caught up to him by the river he said, "I realized I don't need to get the names from you. Lydia has them." (Paraphrasing).
Not sure if that was hopelessly shallow on the part of the writers. All the sudden Walt remembers this important element in those few seconds. Sure.
But if it wasn't, then I'm not sure what it was. He seemed to really need the names before he shot Mike, and if his plan to was to kill him all along, demanding those names as a precursor to killing him doesn't make sense either. |
Good catch, forgot about the names request at gunpoint.
Mike is a smart guy, Walt is a smart guy. I think Mike knew that Walt was going to have to try and kill everyone after the feds got to the money and the lawyer the final time. And if Lydia put him on the list, he would probably figure Walt to put him on the list.
Remind me who were Mike's first choices to bring him the bag? |
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Chronicle
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| LarryCoon wrote: | Also, ostensibly Walt wanted the names of the 11 guys in jail from Mike, and Mike wouldn't give them to him. Walt shot Mike as he was trying to drive away, but when he caught up to him by the river he said, "I realized I don't need to get the names from you. Lydia has them." (Paraphrasing).
Not sure if that was hopelessly shallow on the part of the writers. All the sudden Walt remembers this important element in those few seconds. Sure.
But if it wasn't, then I'm not sure what it was. He seemed to really need the names before he shot Mike, and if his plan to was to kill him all along, demanding those names as a precursor to killing him doesn't make sense either. |
Thanks, that's the scene that I meant, Walt trying to get the names.
I don't think it's shallow on the part of the writers. Walt was close to having mental breakdowns, remember the going crazy in the basement scene when he found out his wife spent his money? I too sometimes remember I did not have to do certain things after having done them. Everyone has that. In my opinion, it was one of the better things written in the series (which says a lot because the entire series is very well written).
But why am I bringing this up in this thread? Because to me, that scene made Walt suddenly seem different. He is a mastermind, but his reign is coming to an end. He is slowly starting to make mistakes. I think that is what ties into the end of the series. He will slowly make more mistakes (fatal mistakes) that lead to an unfortunate ending.
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ArminNBA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| LarryCoon wrote: | | dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | Chronicle wrote: | | Quote: | | Why did Walt kill Mike? |
Mike kidnapped Walt and tried to steal his precursor. He had also been testing Walt all season with legacy costs. The boss doesn't like people going against his wishes.
He was also a loose end. Cops were on to him, and who knows how loyal he would be if the cops involved his his grand daughter. Everyone was talking to the DEA at that point of the season. The laundry guy was about to talk, the lawyer talked and gave up Mike, etc. |
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Also, ostensibly Walt wanted the names of the 11 guys in jail from Mike, and Mike wouldn't give them to him. Walt shot Mike as he was trying to drive away, but when he caught up to him by the river he said, "I realized I don't need to get the names from you. Lydia has them." (Paraphrasing).
Not sure if that was hopelessly shallow on the part of the writers. All the sudden Walt remembers this important element in those few seconds. Sure.
But if it wasn't, then I'm not sure what it was. He seemed to really need the names before he shot Mike, and if his plan to was to kill him all along, demanding those names as a precursor to killing him doesn't make sense either. |
Walt does and says these things as a part of his whole charade, his persona. He is always manipulating others as a way to justify his actions to himself and those people. By demanding the names from Mike, he created a faux issue to wedge between them that didn't really exist. His ego, the need for him to reinforce his superiority over others, is why he tells Mike that he never really needed the names from Mike in the first place. As Mike is dying, Walt does what he does best and makes the moment about himself and Mike rightly calls him out on his self-centeredness even in his dying moments.
Also, did anybody else see the parallel between Walt turning around with his hand in his pocket towards Hank (holding the GPS tracker and not what seems to initially be a gun) and when Walt stops and turns around to go kill Mike? He was wearing the same clothing too, I believe. |
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fansincemagic
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:40 am Post subject: |
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Jesse is so much of a wildcard right now. The guy is so checked out mentally that he can't do the right thing if he wanted to. He still doesn't trust Walt and had to get the hint that he "has to" believe Walt's Mike story. I think he's in total danger to be snatched up to be Lydia's new cook. In the "say my name" scene in the desert Walt made it a point to say here stood "the greatest cook...no the greatest two cooks...." towards Jesse, total Heisenberg slip due to ego. Declan or Todd's crew wouldn't hesitate to snatch him up. Lydia knows Jesse too, plus there are a ton of mexicans with video footage of him cooking.
I'm not gonna white out speculation, I think we're all just putting it out there at this point, but thats all it is, speculation...
Deep down inside Walt still sees Jesse almost as a son (calling Walt Jr. "Jesse") and he doesn't want to believe Jesse will slip up or cross him....but then I start thinking about the people that Walt has killed and odd advice they've given along the way. Gus tells him to never trust a junkie, Tuco says its always the ones you love that cross you, Emilio says be careful with Jesse, he runs his mouth, ect... I think all it would take now is Sal slipping up about Jane, or it coming out somehow and Jesse would be fully focused on destroying Walt. Maybe Hank gets to him first and they form a plan, maybe not. Either way Jesse is a loose cannon and its going to be very interesting to see if he gets kidnapped and Walt has to rescue him, or if he takes down Heisenberg before making a call about a rare vaccum cleaner replacement part. Whatever happens, its gonna be Jesse that alters Walt's life. |
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kwest80
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:40 am Post subject: |
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| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | Remind me who were Mike's first choices to bring him the bag? |
Not sure if it was a "choice" thing but Jesse initially volunteers to get the bag. Mike refuses to let him get involved so Walt gets it instead. |
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Brandon98
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| kwest80 wrote: | | dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | Remind me who were Mike's first choices to bring him the bag? |
Not sure if it was a "choice" thing but Jesse initially volunteers to get the bag. Mike refuses to let him get involved so Walt gets it instead. |
Yes. Mike initially wanted Saul to do it, because that is what he was paying him for. Walt eventually just stepped in and took the risk. |
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Chronicle
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:51 am Post subject: |
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What bag?
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unleasHell
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:53 am Post subject: |
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Love everyone's insight, I don't spend too much time speculating, so all of them (for the most part) sound feasible.
I think it will be cool if in each episode, we continue to get some odd glimpses of the future that slowly come together near the last episodes...
I hear there is talk about a Breaking Bad movie, if any of that is coming from the producers/writers, then you can't kill Walt off - anyone have any thoughts on that??
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Brandon98
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| Chronicle wrote: | | What bag? |
I remember correctly, Mike had a getaway bag with cash and his gun stashed inside at the airport. But this is when the DEA was on to him for the safety deposit box money, so it was risky for Mike to go get it himself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Say_My_Name_(Breaking_Bad)
(Copy and paste link) |
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fansincemagic
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Brandon98 wrote: | | kwest80 wrote: | | dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | Remind me who were Mike's first choices to bring him the bag? |
Not sure if it was a "choice" thing but Jesse initially volunteers to get the bag. Mike refuses to let him get involved so Walt gets it instead. |
Yes. Mike initially wanted Saul to do it, because that is what he was paying him for. Walt eventually just stepped in and took the risk. |
Saul didn't want to do it as he had just represented Mike to the same DEA and was likely being watched himself. I'm surprised Saul didn't use one of his "A-Team" to get the bag, and that Mike was so quick to be fine with Walt. I get that he was desperate, but I give Mike more credit than that. |
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Chronicle
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| unleasHell wrote: | Love everyone's insight, I don't spend too much time speculating, so all of them (for the most part) sound feasible.
I think it will be cool if in each episode, we continue to get some odd glimpses of the future that slowly come together near the last episodes...
I hear there is talk about a Breaking Bad movie, if any of that is coming from the producers/writers, then you can't kill Walt off - anyone have any thoughts on that?? |
I don't think Walt will be killed off. I think he will be alive, but he will be left with nothing.
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cmonkee
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| ArminNBA wrote: | | LarryCoon wrote: | | dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | Chronicle wrote: | | Quote: | | Why did Walt kill Mike? |
Mike kidnapped Walt and tried to steal his precursor. He had also been testing Walt all season with legacy costs. The boss doesn't like people going against his wishes.
He was also a loose end. Cops were on to him, and who knows how loyal he would be if the cops involved his his grand daughter. Everyone was talking to the DEA at that point of the season. The laundry guy was about to talk, the lawyer talked and gave up Mike, etc. |
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Also, ostensibly Walt wanted the names of the 11 guys in jail from Mike, and Mike wouldn't give them to him. Walt shot Mike as he was trying to drive away, but when he caught up to him by the river he said, "I realized I don't need to get the names from you. Lydia has them." (Paraphrasing).
Not sure if that was hopelessly shallow on the part of the writers. All the sudden Walt remembers this important element in those few seconds. Sure.
But if it wasn't, then I'm not sure what it was. He seemed to really need the names before he shot Mike, and if his plan to was to kill him all along, demanding those names as a precursor to killing him doesn't make sense either. |
Walt does and says these things as a part of his whole charade, his persona. He is always manipulating others as a way to justify his actions to himself and those people. By demanding the names from Mike, he created a faux issue to wedge between them that didn't really exist. His ego, the need for him to reinforce his superiority over others, is why he tells Mike that he never really needed the names from Mike in the first place. As Mike is dying, Walt does what he does best and makes the moment about himself and Mike rightly calls him out on his self-centeredness even in his dying moments.
Also, did anybody else see the parallel between Walt turning around with his hand in his pocket towards Hank (holding the GPS tracker and not what seems to initially be a gun) and when Walt stops and turns around to go kill Mike? He was wearing the same clothing too, I believe. |
On Walt's motivation for killing Mike - to me, Walt acted out of emotion in shooting him. Threatening Mike never came up when he was asking for the names of his guys - Walt just told Mike that he owed him them. Mike then gave Walt a piece of his mind - basically telling him that he sucks because of his ego issues, and that things ran much better under Gus, so he should have known his place and done his job. Great call on Walt walking away at first... and then abruptly returning for a confrontation. |
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dont_be_a_wuss
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Part was emotion, but Gillian left us foreshadowing earlier in the season when Walt said to Jesse, "maybe there was another reason Gus killed Victor, cooking that batch on his own, taking liberties that weren't his to take, hmmm...". He said this after Mike was taking liberties with the money, and Walt was already thinking about killing him. But he does feel sorry for the remorseful for the killing so he wasn't |
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fansincemagic
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Chronicle wrote: | | unleasHell wrote: | Love everyone's insight, I don't spend too much time speculating, so all of them (for the most part) sound feasible.
I think it will be cool if in each episode, we continue to get some odd glimpses of the future that slowly come together near the last episodes...
I hear there is talk about a Breaking Bad movie, if any of that is coming from the producers/writers, then you can't kill Walt off - anyone have any thoughts on that?? |
I don't think Walt will be killed off. I think he will be alive, but he will be left with nothing. |
I'm thinkin he will be sittin on a ton of money (like the poster), with no family. I'd like to see someone else take "Heisenberg" from him so he won't even have that legacy. Just a retired car was salesman dying of cancer with nobody. |
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dont_be_a_wuss
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dont_be_a_wuss
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| unleasHell wrote: |
I hear there is talk about a Breaking Bad movie, if any of that is coming from the producers/writers, then you can't kill Walt off - anyone have any thoughts on that?? |
Movie response from Cranston was "not out of the question". The movie could be a flashbacks with Gus having some history revealed, etc. So Walt could still die or end up in prison. (using science to break himself out and cook again. Naw too crazy  )
There is a supposedly a Saul Goodman show in the works. |
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Jeffs
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| cmonkee wrote: |
* Walt channeling the mannerisms of Gus: his convo with Lydia at the car wash was just like the ones Gus used to have with Walt at Los Pollos Hermanos, and he even vomited in the bathroom like Gus (when he poisoned the Cartel) - sink on, folded towel in front of the toliet bowl. Weird thing though is that Walt never witnessed Gus doing this, so this was probably meant more for the viewers to make the connection.
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Glad someone else picked up on this. It was absolutely brilliantly done. Walt's interaction with Lydia at the car wash was exactly like Gus's interactions with Walt at the restaurant and hospital, and the vomiting scene was the icing on the cake. It's fascinating to watch the progression of Walt from a mild-mannered chemistry teacher to the ruthless, calculated criminal that he so recently detested.
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Jeffs
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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Also, another observation -
In the flash-forward, Walt's house looks like it has been abandoned for quite a while. There is graffiti all over the place (both inside and out) and the exterior is a mess. We know from the earlier flash-forward that Walt just turned 52. At the beginning of season 5, he turned 51, and then worked for at least a few more months before retiring, which he did at least a month before episode 9. Going by this timeline, it seems to me like whatever happens to the house has to happen in the very near future. I can't imagine Hank being able to build a case THAT fast.
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I feel like I just watched someone TRULY give 100%. Not the BS I'm-gonna-give-a-110%-just-like-everyone-else-says platitudes, but someone that went until he just....broke. - GT
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numero-ocho
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | Part was emotion, but Gillian left us foreshadowing earlier in the season when Walt said to Jesse, "maybe there was another reason Gus killed Victor, cooking that batch on his own, taking liberties that weren't his to take, hmmm...". He said this after Mike was taking liberties with the money, and Walt was already thinking about killing him. But he does feel sorry for the remorseful for the killing so he wasn't |
I agree. I think it was also pride. Mike never gave Walt the respect he thought he deserved and Walt never could control or manipulate Mike the way he could others. I also agree with others that Mike had become a loose end and Walt maybe already had it in his mind to kill him. He did steal Mike' gun from his bag, but I think his anger over Mike not thanking him for bringing him the getaway bag is, to me, what pushed him over the edge.
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Brandon98
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| Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| numero-ocho wrote: | | dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | Part was emotion, but Gillian left us foreshadowing earlier in the season when Walt said to Jesse, "maybe there was another reason Gus killed Victor, cooking that batch on his own, taking liberties that weren't his to take, hmmm...". He said this after Mike was taking liberties with the money, and Walt was already thinking about killing him. But he does feel sorry for the remorseful for the killing so he wasn't |
I agree. I think it was also pride. Mike never gave Walt the respect he thought he deserved and Walt never could control or manipulate Mike the way he could others. I also agree with others that Mike had become a loose end and Walt maybe already had it in his mind to kill him. He did steal Mike' gun from his bag, but I think his anger over Mike not thanking him for bringing him the getaway bag is, to me, what pushed him over the edge. |
"Walter, just because you shot Jesse James....Doesn't make you Jesse James."
Easily one of my favorite lines during the entire series. Mike was so awesome. Understandable he was probably going to die at some point, but man, do I miss his character. |
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