Who was better: Shaq or Hakeem?
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Who was better?
Shaq
67%
 67%  [ 36 ]
Hakeem Olajuwon
32%
 32%  [ 17 ]
Total Votes : 53

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CandyCanes
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:58 am    Post subject: Who was better: Shaq or Hakeem?

Curious what people think. Olajuwon beat Duncan 73-53 in this thread from a few years ago. What about Shaq?

http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?t=163126&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:04 pm    Post subject:

Hmm...this is a good one.

My inkling is Hakeem. Less overall weaknesses. Could even play in today's NBA IMO.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:01 pm    Post subject:

Ugh, so tough. Leaning towards the dream.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:22 pm    Post subject:

Cap! jk

Playoffs? Hakeem
Regular Season scoring/Career achievements? Shaq

http://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/hakeem_olajuwon_vs_shaquille_oneal.htm

Talk about splitting hairs.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:35 pm    Post subject:

Hakeem did it all, and did it all well. I think he is the best defensive Center to ever play, and one of the best offensive centers.

I think Shaq might be more effective offensively but Hakeem is not too far behind. Shaq is a long ways behind Hakeem defensively though.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:38 pm    Post subject:

Dream by virtue of being a DPOY candidate nearly every season he was in the league (and the majority of the time it wasn't due to reputation). A 3 block/2 steal big man is the ultimate defensive unicorn. Shaq was more dominant on offense at his peak but Dream was right there.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:41 pm    Post subject:

I voted Shaq because he was a Laker and has more rings.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 2:08 pm    Post subject:

lakerjoshua wrote:
I voted Shaq because he was a Laker and has more rings.


Wish I could take my vote back. I think prime Shaq was such an absolute force of nature that #'s can't quite quantify. They changed the rules because of him ffs.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 4:01 pm    Post subject:

I liked watching Hakeem play at his peak far more, but I think Shaq had a longer period of greater dominance. I think Hakeem was the more admirable player stylistically, but Shaq was the better one. I didn't like the rhino-in-a-china-shop style that Shaq used in his championship campaigns, but it unstoppable until his body broke down.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 4:19 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
lakerjoshua wrote:
I voted Shaq because he was a Laker and has more rings.


Wish I could take my vote back. I think prime Shaq was such an absolute force of nature that #'s can't quite quantify. They changed the rules because of him ffs.


This is you voting for Shaq
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 4:32 pm    Post subject:

NBA didn't change its rule for Hakeem, just to show how dominant Shaq was

It's close the same way Kobe vs LeBron is. One is more skilled, the other one is bigger, stronger, faster

Shaq gets my vote
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 4:42 pm    Post subject:

With no time machine for chronological resetting, which means you evaluate both by the rules of their playing days, I give the nod to Shaq, particularly the 2000 MVP season over any season you might select for Hakeem. The absolute apex prime of Shaq would have been too much for a in-his-prime Hakeem.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 4:56 pm    Post subject:

Shaq was amazing, but Hakeem at his best could give you 24-14 with 5 blocks and a couple of steals. I give it to Hakeem for his defense, greater ability to play on the perimeter, and hit free throws. But it's close.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 5:54 pm    Post subject:

Shaq...

* Outplayed Hakeem in the '95 finals
* His peak was more impressive (I take Shaq's 00 season over Dream's 95 season)
* Much more efficient
* More rings
* Better teammate

With that said I'm a big fan of The Dream and his extraordinary pivot repertoire and defensive skills. Definitely a top 15 all time great. However, I can't give him a pass for the early half of his career. 4 consecutive first round exits. 3 sweeps. Lots of pouting and even accusations of faking injuries. His early days saw him earn the headcase label. I believe he benefits greatly from floating in obscurity during the early part of his career, and then finally asserting his dominance during the two years when MJ was out. Essentially, when folks think of Hakeem, they think of him during 93-95. Unfortunately, his 16 other seasons were plagued by early playoff exits, team implosions, and plenty of clashes with his FO (albeit excellent individual success). Shaq, OTOH, always had his teams in championship contention during his prime and was finally rewarded when paired with a viable 1A option in Kobe. Shaq's peak from 94-03 saw him average a devastating 28/12/3/2.5 on 58%FG. Put simply, Shaq was just a better player. Hakeem had more skill, but I don't think those were merely enough to close the gap from Shaq's monstrous physical virtues. This round goes to Shaq Fu IMO.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:21 pm    Post subject:

Shaq was unstoppable. Hakeem was more skilled with his arsenal of moves. I take Shaq because even with guys double teaming him he could unleash a lot of pain on the defenders.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:46 pm    Post subject:

Dream would also do the insane numbers during Ramadan without any food or water. Imagine sweating that much without drinking water (and still ballin' like a maniac)!? I tried fasting and the thirst for water is 100x tougher than the hunger for food in the belly. Dream always gets my top Tough Guy Kobe Bryant Trophy for that.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 6:58 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
NBA didn't change its rule for Hakeem, just to show how dominant Shaq was


They didn't change it for Shaq either. That myth needs to die. The powers that be were on record numerous times about why the rules were changed.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:12 am    Post subject:

The Grind wrote:
Shaq...

* Outplayed Hakeem in the '95 finals


No he didn't. There are two sides of the basketball court.

The Grind wrote:
* His peak was more impressive (I take Shaq's 00 season over Dream's 95 season)


And I'd take Dreams 90 season over both (24, 14, 3, 4.6 blocks and 2.1 steals, led the league in the bolded). Unfortunately he had guys like Thorpe, Floyd and Buck Johnson instead of the likes of Penny, Kobe or Wade. 94 and 95 Dream wasn't peak Dream. It was peak Dream offensively, but not overall. He just happened to have better teammates later on his career, similar to what he had in 86 when he got to the Finals. He displayed early on in his career that he could lead a contending team if he had help. He just didn't have help for the majority of his best days (hence being overlooked, combined with being African and in Houston as far as marketability). Sampson got hurt in 86 and he didn't get another HOF type teammate (what Shaq had almost every year) until 95.

And I'm still more impressed with what Dream did in 95 considering the centers that he did it against and that he had to hold them on the other end (Robinson and Shaq). I couldn't imagine what he could do being held by the centers that Shaq faced in 00 and getting to ignore them offensively (since he's arguably the best help defender to walk the Earth).

The Grind wrote:

* Much more efficient


Much worse defensively.

The Grind wrote:
* More rings


Better teammates.

The Grind wrote:
* Better teammate




As far as the rest of your post, Hakeem was drafted in 84. He had help his first two years and got to the Finals in 86. Then Sampson got hurt and the league kicked out his entire backcourt for drugs. He didn't have another stud teammate until 95. Oh, suddenly when he got more help his teams were contenders again. Not complex. All players didn't have the luxury of playing with great talent for the majority of their careers. That's one advantage the bigs of Shaq's era (him and Duncan) had over the great bigs of the prior one (Dream, Robinson and Ewing).
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:46 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
governator wrote:
NBA didn't change its rule for Hakeem, just to show how dominant Shaq was


They didn't change it for Shaq either. That myth needs to die. The powers that be were on record numerous times about why the rules were changed.



Shaq caused two changes.

1. The backboard support and stanchion design were changed after he broke one.
2. The Hack-a-Shaq rules were introduced.

Neither of these rules were really about his dominance (like when the lane was widened for Wilt). Some people think the zone revisions were due to Shaq, but there's no evidence that was actually the case.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:09 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
governator wrote:
NBA didn't change its rule for Hakeem, just to show how dominant Shaq was


They didn't change it for Shaq either. That myth needs to die. The powers that be were on record numerous times about why the rules were changed.



Shaq caused two changes.

1. The backboard support and stanchion design were changed after he broke one.
2. The Hack-a-Shaq rules were introduced.

Neither of these rules were really about his dominance (like when the lane was widened for Wilt). Some people think the zone revisions were due to Shaq, but there's no evidence that was actually the case.


I stand corrected. I assumed he was referencing the zone revisions (the common myth).
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 4:43 pm    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
No he didn't. There are two sides of the basketball court.


Shaq averaged 28/12.5/6/2.5 on .595FG% vs Hakeem's 32.8/11.5/5.5/2 on .483FG%. I'd say Shaq played the better series. His teammates got badly outplayed by Hakeem's tho.

Quote:
And I'd take Dreams 90 season over both (24, 14, 3, 4.6 blocks and 2.1 steals, led the league in the bolded). Unfortunately he had guys like Thorpe, Floyd and Buck Johnson instead of the likes of Penny, Kobe or Wade. 94 and 95 Dream wasn't peak Dream. It was peak Dream offensively, but not overall. He just happened to have better teammates later on his career, similar to what he had in 86 when he got to the Finals. He displayed early on in his career that he could lead a contending team if he had help. He just didn't have help for the majority of his best days (hence being overlooked, combined with being African and in Houston as far as marketability). Sampson got hurt in 86 and he didn't get another HOF type teammate (what Shaq had almost every year) until 95.


I respect that. You're taking defense over offense. I'd still rather have Shaq's numbers and ridiculous efficiency over the 9-year window/prime that I mentioned.

Quote:
As far as the rest of your post, Hakeem was drafted in 84. He had help his first two years and got to the Finals in 86. Then Sampson got hurt and the league kicked out his entire backcourt for drugs. He didn't have another stud teammate until 95. Oh, suddenly when he got more help his teams were contenders again. Not complex. All players didn't have the luxury of playing with great talent for the majority of their careers. That's one advantage the bigs of Shaq's era (him and Duncan) had over the great bigs of the prior one (Dream, Robinson and Ewing).


From what I recall, Hakeem gad plenty of quality teammates from 86-93. Sampson, McCray, Lucas, Lloyd, Floyd, Maxwell, Thorpe, and Kenny. All ranged from very good to great. In fact, from 90-92, Thorpe was averaging a steady 17/10/3 on .565FG% while leading the team in shooting every year. In 91 he shot shot a crazy .592%! Hell, in 91 Kenny actually placed higher than Hakeem in MVP voting . What's even less complex is the fact that Hakeem actually had quality teammates throughout all of his career. I won't even get into the Barkleys and Pippens of latter years.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 6:05 pm    Post subject:

This is tough. Ringwise, Shaq is over Hakeem.
It is easy to forget Hakeem if the dominance of Shaq surrounds your mind. But Hakeem was dominant in his own ways. To me, it is a coin toss if I have to choose. But characterwise, I would choose Hakeem in a blink.

We have seen Kobe n Shaq. We have seen Kobe and Gasol.
We have fantasized Kobe n Duncan. Or Kobe and Garnett/Dirk.
Just imagine Kobe and Hakeem!
That would be at least 7 rings.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:14 pm    Post subject:

Hakeem is the 2nd best Center of all time, after Kareem. But, if I were starting a team I'd take prime Shaq over Hakeem.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:26 pm    Post subject:

vanexelent wrote:
Hakeem is the 2nd best Center of all time, after Kareem. But, if I were starting a team I'd take prime Shaq over Hakeem.
Wilt is rolling.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:43 pm    Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:
vanexelent wrote:
Hakeem is the 2nd best Center of all time, after Kareem. But, if I were starting a team I'd take prime Shaq over Hakeem.
Wilt is rolling.


I'm too young to have seen Wilt play, but from what I've seen I cant' say he had more skill than Hakeem. Plus, for how dominant Wilt was statistically, it sure didn't result in many championships.
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