Official D12, D-Will and other Trade Rumors/Speculation Thread (Pg 1063: D12 will opt in and stay with Orlando for one more year)
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 8:15 am    Post subject:

Let's face it, nothing is going to happen until they settle the CBA. Secondly I think until the Lakers hire a new coach, the needs of the team will be in limbo, although I would imagine we would all agree that the team needs to get younger, faster, and some reliable outside shooting. Some of the players on the team now will not flourish outside of the triangle offense.

It's the old wait and see....and we all hate it.
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 8:15 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I'm all for Dwight coming here, but using all our trade chips to get him leaves with Fisher/Blake as point guards. Same problem, we'll just have a more athletic beast in the middle chasing point guards off of failed P&R defense.


Yeah, replace Bynum with Howard and we get swept by the Mavs.


Again, as I pointed out to you previously, teams, regardless of composition, score fewer points on average when Dwight is on the floor than when Drew in on the floor. In the playoffs the difference was -11 points per/100 possessions when you compare Dwight to Drew. The Hawks aren't exactly a pound it inside team either, and yet they managed a meager 96 points per 100 possessions against the Magic with Dwight on the floor, whereas the Mavs posted a 107 per 100 possessions with Drew on the floor.

Is some of that attributable to the other 4 players, as well as the other team? Sure. Terry and Peja could have still shot 15 of 16 from 3 with or without Dwight Howard out there. It was a freakish night. The other 3 games though? We're talking about averages, and, on average, the Mavs would score poorly when Howard was on the court.

I suppose we might have still lost to the Mavs. Fine. That is really besides the point. Again, as I said in the other thread, there is no case in which adding the best player at his position to your roster makes you a worse team--especially if you are simply swapping the best player at that position with the not-the-best player at that position. Yes, we could perhaps argue that a Howard and filler for Bynum PLUS Odom or Gasol would make the team worse. The specifics of the trade are important, but on a player-for-player swap, Howard is better than Bynum. Having a better player improves your chances of winning. If we swapped Artest for Lebron would we get swept by the Mavs still? Possible. Probably not. If we swapped Gasol for Randolph (probably the best PF in the playoffs right now) do we get swept by the Mavs? Probably not. If we had Durant instead of Kobe (the current injured and old version)? Do we get swept by the Mavs? Again, maybe, but probably not.

So getting better players at a position always helps. In the specific instance of Howard you're getting a better player with more durability. And having players that are healthy and on the court is always, always better than having players that are always dealing with injuries and/or not playing.
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 8:17 am    Post subject:

RG73 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I'm all for Dwight coming here, but using all our trade chips to get him leaves with Fisher/Blake as point guards. Same problem, we'll just have a more athletic beast in the middle chasing point guards off of failed P&R defense.


Yeah, replace Bynum with Howard and we get swept by the Mavs.


So getting better players at a position always helps. In the specific instance of Howard you're getting a better player with more durability. And having players that are healthy and on the court is always, always better than having players that are always dealing with injuries and/or not playing.


And the unprecedented three times DPOY backs it up.
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 8:20 am    Post subject:

RG73 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
And a couple of his friends, who actually aren't afraid to use their real names, have said that he wants to stay in Orlando.


Funny then that he hasn't committed to the contract extension that he's had for at least a month or so now. If he wants to stay he can sign the contract extension today and be done with it. It wouldn't be unreasonable to suggest that he wants to explore his options.


He would be an idiot not to explore his options, but that doesn't mean he wants to leave Orlando. If he doesn't sign that extension, and the CBA changes it, he could stand to lose millions. That is a tough choice for any player to make.

If he is looking for multiple titles down the road, the Nets are probably attractive. A young top PG in DWill and an owner who has been aggressive in improving the team. Not to mention playing in the #1 NBA market when they move to NY. That could make up some of those lost millions. With the Lakers, Kobe is obviously in decline, and the window for him is closing fast.
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 8:21 am    Post subject:

RG73 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I'm all for Dwight coming here, but using all our trade chips to get him leaves with Fisher/Blake as point guards. Same problem, we'll just have a more athletic beast in the middle chasing point guards off of failed P&R defense.


Yeah, replace Bynum with Howard and we get swept by the Mavs.


Again, as I pointed out to you previously, teams, regardless of composition, score fewer points on average when Dwight is on the floor than when Drew in on the floor. In the playoffs the difference was -11 points per/100 possessions when you compare Dwight to Drew. The Hawks aren't exactly a pound it inside team either, and yet they managed a meager 96 points per 100 possessions against the Magic with Dwight on the floor, whereas the Mavs posted a 107 per 100 possessions with Drew on the floor.

Is some of that attributable to the other 4 players, as well as the other team? Sure. Terry and Peja could have still shot 15 of 16 from 3 with or without Dwight Howard out there. It was a freakish night. The other 3 games though? We're talking about averages, and, on average, the Mavs would score poorly when Howard was on the court.

I suppose we might have still lost to the Mavs. Fine. That is really besides the point. Again, as I said in the other thread, there is no case in which adding the best player at his position to your roster makes you a worse team--especially if you are simply swapping the best player at that position with the not-the-best player at that position. Yes, we could perhaps argue that a Howard and filler for Bynum PLUS Odom or Gasol would make the team worse. The specifics of the trade are important, but on a player-for-player swap, Howard is better than Bynum. Having a better player improves your chances of winning. If we swapped Artest for Lebron would we get swept by the Mavs still? Possible. Probably not. If we swapped Gasol for Randolph (probably the best PF in the playoffs right now) do we get swept by the Mavs? Probably not. If we had Durant instead of Kobe (the current injured and old version)? Do we get swept by the Mavs? Again, maybe, but probably not.

So getting better players at a position always helps. In the specific instance of Howard you're getting a better player with more durability. And having players that are healthy and on the court is always, always better than having players that are always dealing with injuries and/or not playing.


Instead of stats, let's look at the games we just played. The Mavs killed the Lakers from the perimeter, especially the 3 point shots. Howard would have made no difference. If you think so, tell me how.

And there is nothing wrong with improving the center position, but if that is the FO's focus this offseason, we won't win many titles with Howard. We need to fix the positions that are broken.
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 8:23 am    Post subject:

Superman is coming back to town. I hope they play the theme music at Staples like they did for Shaq.
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 8:24 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
RG73 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
And a couple of his friends, who actually aren't afraid to use their real names, have said that he wants to stay in Orlando.


Funny then that he hasn't committed to the contract extension that he's had for at least a month or so now. If he wants to stay he can sign the contract extension today and be done with it. It wouldn't be unreasonable to suggest that he wants to explore his options.


He would be an idiot not to explore his options, but that doesn't mean he wants to leave Orlando. If he doesn't sign that extension, and the CBA changes it, he could stand to lose millions. That is a tough choice for any player to make.

If he is looking for multiple titles down the road, the Nets are probably attractive. A young top PG in DWill and an owner who has been aggressive in improving the team. Not to mention playing in the #1 NBA market when they move to NY. That could make up some of those lost millions. With the Lakers, Kobe is obviously in decline, and the window for him is closing fast.


Lebron did it. And D12 can make it up with endorsements. He's very marketable.

Again why would he play for the Nets? Small market on a sorry team. Zero sense. Nets will not be a contender even if he comes aboard.
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 8:27 am    Post subject:

Basketball Fan wrote:
ShowtimeDynasty_24/7 wrote:
Bballguru5000 wrote:
Bryant-Bynum Lakers wrote:
Everytime something like this is let out to the public, it most likely means it won't happen. Too much pressure is put to it to get it done and everything becomes to transparent to get a deal accomplished.


Not always. Everyone basically knew Shaq was going to be a Laker way before it happened.


Yep, and Dwight is pretty much following the template of O'neal's career..



So after he and Kobe 3 peat(thus Kobe's career ending with 8 rings matching his original jersey number) they're going to feud but this time Kobe leaves (via retirement) and Dwight is the new face of the Lakers...

Then another Brash teenager from Philadelphia comes in at the same time and we have

Shaq vs Kobe the Sequel.

The vicious wheel keeps going and going...
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 8:30 am    Post subject:

Fallout wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
RG73 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
And a couple of his friends, who actually aren't afraid to use their real names, have said that he wants to stay in Orlando.


Funny then that he hasn't committed to the contract extension that he's had for at least a month or so now. If he wants to stay he can sign the contract extension today and be done with it. It wouldn't be unreasonable to suggest that he wants to explore his options.


He would be an idiot not to explore his options, but that doesn't mean he wants to leave Orlando. If he doesn't sign that extension, and the CBA changes it, he could stand to lose millions. That is a tough choice for any player to make.

If he is looking for multiple titles down the road, the Nets are probably attractive. A young top PG in DWill and an owner who has been aggressive in improving the team. Not to mention playing in the #1 NBA market when they move to NY. That could make up some of those lost millions. With the Lakers, Kobe is obviously in decline, and the window for him is closing fast.


Lebron did it. And D12 can make it up with endorsements. He's very marketable.

Again why would he play for the Nets? Small market on a sorry team. Zero sense. Nets will not be a contender even if he comes aboard.


Lebron didn't pass up an extension in the middle of new CBA negotiations, he used our current system to make as much as he could. And Brooklyn/NY is the #1 market in the league.
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Last edited by venturalakersfan on Mon May 09, 2011 8:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 8:31 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:

He would be an idiot not to explore his options, but that doesn't mean he wants to leave Orlando. If he doesn't sign that extension, and the CBA changes it, he could stand to lose millions. That is a tough choice for any player to make.

If he is looking for multiple titles down the road, the Nets are probably attractive. A young top PG in DWill and an owner who has been aggressive in improving the team. Not to mention playing in the #1 NBA market when they move to NY. That could make up some of those lost millions. With the Lakers, Kobe is obviously in decline, and the window for him is closing fast.


Yes, certainly NJ would make some sense. But it isn't as if Buss hasn't been aggressive in improving the team. He's got the best track record of any owner in the league. Even with Kobe in decline, he'll still probably be somewhere in the low 20s in terms of PER for the next several years, which would make him the best SG Dwight has ever played with. With either Odom or Gasol next to him, the best PF he's ever played with. The Lakers would still be contenders and Dwight will still be in his prime when Kobe retires, with ample time to rebuild around him for more titles.

Yes, the Lakers are not the only attractive option if he wants to leave Orlando, but they are likely to be one of the attractive options.

Until the team plots a course with a coach and decides a future direction, yeah, we won't see any superstars forcing their way into a trade here. But come on Ventura, you know Buss will swing for the fences again. He's stuck with this ridiculous payroll and only contending for titles can justify that. Assuming Kobe has no desire to leave, the only assets for bringing in a new superstar are the bigs. And the best way to vault yourself into contention is via a superstar big. Dwight is the best one that might be available and has, at the very least, been ambivalent about his desire to stay in Orlando. Thus, it is not unreasonable to surmise this might be a fit for both the Lakers and Howard. Maybe not. But it is worth exploring for both sides.
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 8:34 am    Post subject:

The big difference between improving the Nets and the Lakers is that the Nets have cap flexibility going forward, while the Lakers will have none for another 3-4 years. Buss had to wait for the remnants of Shaq's contract were gone to improve the Lakers this time, it will be the same with Kobe and Gasol. Only it could be worse with Kobe, he will be making more than Shaq with a (presumed) smaller cap to work with.

Looking at this team this season, we would be better on the inside with Howard, but still losing playoff series on the perimeter.
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 8:35 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Fallout wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
RG73 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
And a couple of his friends, who actually aren't afraid to use their real names, have said that he wants to stay in Orlando.


Funny then that he hasn't committed to the contract extension that he's had for at least a month or so now. If he wants to stay he can sign the contract extension today and be done with it. It wouldn't be unreasonable to suggest that he wants to explore his options.


He would be an idiot not to explore his options, but that doesn't mean he wants to leave Orlando. If he doesn't sign that extension, and the CBA changes it, he could stand to lose millions. That is a tough choice for any player to make.

If he is looking for multiple titles down the road, the Nets are probably attractive. A young top PG in DWill and an owner who has been aggressive in improving the team. Not to mention playing in the #1 NBA market when they move to NY. That could make up some of those lost millions. With the Lakers, Kobe is obviously in decline, and the window for him is closing fast.


Lebron did it. And D12 can make it up with endorsements. He's very marketable.

Again why would he play for the Nets? Small market on a sorry team. Zero sense. Nets will not be a contender even if he comes aboard.


Lebron didn't pass up an extension in the middle of new CBA negotiations, he used our current system to make as much as he could. And Brooklyn/NY is the #1 market in the league.


Lebron would have made alot more if he stayed with the Cavs.
Nets are not on par with the Knicks.
Its like comparing Clippers with the Lakers just because they're both LA.
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 8:36 am    Post subject:

Fan0Bynum17 wrote:
All this Dwight Howard pipe talk is going to be annoying as hell.


almost as annoying as the KG talks bac in the day lol
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 8:37 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
The big difference between improving the Nets and the Lakers is that the Nets have cap flexibility going forward, while the Lakers will have none for another 3-4 years. Buss had to wait for the remnants of Shaq's contract were gone to improve the Lakers this time, it will be the same with Kobe and Gasol. Only it could be worse with Kobe, he will be making more than Shaq with a (presumed) smaller cap to work with.

Looking at this team this season, we would be better on the inside with Howard, but still losing playoff series on the perimeter.


It wouldn't matter if our perimeter defense sucked. Not when you have D12 protecting the paint.

Our problem are rotations, nothing a defensive coach can't fix.
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 8:40 am    Post subject:

Dwight isn't going to magically help Derek Fisher and Steve Blake stay infront of the Jose Barea's of the NBA. The need is PG. I want Dwight in purple and gold as much as the next guy, but ignoring the hole at PG (for the last ten years) is what cost them the Dallas series.
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 8:48 am    Post subject:

Why do folks keep saying LA is an option when you don't have the capspace to sign Howard? I don't see him coming here for free. This isn't the Melo/NY or LeBron situations where they can sign with you outright.

I can see him deciding to join one of the elite PG's on a team with $$.
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 8:48 am    Post subject: Re: "Everybody knows that Dwight Howard wants to be a Laker," said a person familiar with the All-Star center's plans

rafter84 wrote:
Bol wrote:
rak617 wrote:
Quote:
"Everybody knows that Dwight Howard wants to be a Laker," said a person familiar with the All-Star center's plans, according to CBSSports.com. "They're going to lose Dwight Howard for nothing. He's not staying there. Dwight Howard is going to be in the same mode as LeBron James."

link


This person may be familiar with Dwight's plans, but he obviously isn't familiar with the Lakers' salary cap situation. Lose him for nothing. Yeah, sure, he's coming for the vet minimum.


I might be wrong but we have a team option on Bynum, if we let Drew go, we would have space to sign DH12. Or anyway, we would make it some way...


Then we resign him later like Cryami with Z
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 8:49 am    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
Dwight isn't going to magically help Derek Fisher and Steve Blake stay infront of the Jose Barea's of the NBA. The need is PG. I want Dwight in purple and gold as much as the next guy, but ignoring the hole at PG (for the last ten years) is what cost them the Dallas series.


If the tri is history than a PG becomes top priority..
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 8:53 am    Post subject:

Love to have Howard, but we also need some decent shooters to spread the floor.

I think we need to move away from the triangle,(need a PG for that to happen) not because it's not effective, but if what everyone says about it is true, that it takes at least a year to learn, then what good is it to us when Kobe's career is in decline if we bring new players in?

Can we "accommodate" Bynum and Howard which would make Pau and Odom expendable? Or do we keep Pau to pair him up with Howard?

Decisions, decisions. CAn we get Fish and Luke to retire?
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 8:56 am    Post subject:

Chick-N-Stew wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
Dwight isn't going to magically help Derek Fisher and Steve Blake stay infront of the Jose Barea's of the NBA. The need is PG. I want Dwight in purple and gold as much as the next guy, but ignoring the hole at PG (for the last ten years) is what cost them the Dallas series.


If the tri is history than a PG becomes top priority..


You are talking about offense. That's one thing. But I guess Just Ming is talking about defense.
I agree....We need to address PG issue this off season.
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 8:56 am    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
Dwight isn't going to magically help Derek Fisher and Steve Blake stay infront of the Jose Barea's of the NBA. The need is PG. I want Dwight in purple and gold as much as the next guy, but ignoring the hole at PG (for the last ten years) is what cost them the Dallas series.


getting D12 will not stop us from getting another PG, unless it is CP3 and new orleans insists on bynum instead of pau.
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 8:58 am    Post subject:

matrixskillz wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
Dwight isn't going to magically help Derek Fisher and Steve Blake stay infront of the Jose Barea's of the NBA. The need is PG. I want Dwight in purple and gold as much as the next guy, but ignoring the hole at PG (for the last ten years) is what cost them the Dallas series.


getting D12 will not stop us from getting another PG, unless it is CP3 and new orleans insists on bynum instead of pau.


Yah, I don't get why people think its mutually exclusive.
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 9:13 am    Post subject:

this is pipe dream stuff..as someone mentioned in this thread, all big trades usually dont get leaked, too much out there now. even if we do have a chance to get him it will have to be bynum+gasol for him and even that trade offer might get rejected.
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 11:50 am    Post subject:

KobeJaws wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
The big difference between improving the Nets and the Lakers is that the Nets have cap flexibility going forward, while the Lakers will have none for another 3-4 years. Buss had to wait for the remnants of Shaq's contract were gone to improve the Lakers this time, it will be the same with Kobe and Gasol. Only it could be worse with Kobe, he will be making more than Shaq with a (presumed) smaller cap to work with.

Looking at this team this season, we would be better on the inside with Howard, but still losing playoff series on the perimeter.


It wouldn't matter if our perimeter defense sucked. Not when you have D12 protecting the paint.

Our problem are rotations, nothing a defensive coach can't fix.


It doesn't matter when the opposing perimeter players aren't scoring in the paint. A defensive coach isn't going to make our perimeter players more athletic.
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 11:53 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
Why do folks keep saying LA is an option when you don't have the capspace to sign Howard? I don't see him coming here for free. This isn't the Melo/NY or LeBron situations where they can sign with you outright.

I can see him deciding to join one of the elite PG's on a team with $$.



The "folks" is allegedly Howard himself.
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