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srm90
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Joined: 29 Dec 2007
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 Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| ABynum17 wrote: | | We had a 20+ FTA before the intentional fouls and still lost, we definitely can't blame the refs today. In fact, that's the reason that this loss is so worrying, losing a game when we had a 15+ FTA advantage. |
We definitely can blame the refs when the calls shifted the entire momentum of the game in the 4th in the Celts' favor. One reason among many we lost.
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Texas_Pete
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
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Location: Somewhere watching a Laker game
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| Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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I am upset about the loss, but remain confident. Big Drew showed why he should not be traded for Bosh. 7 blocks in the Finals? I'll take that. If they bothered to rebound better (Rondo of all people had 12) they win going away. Yes, Rondo is a good rebounder, but he is a friggen guard and we start TWO 7 footers.
Time to see what they are made of on the road. Something tells me that they will rise up to the occasion. |
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VonTrapp
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Posts: 2164
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| Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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This game can be described as a disappointing, frustrating, and infuriating.
- We did not come to game 2 with the same energy or intensity we had in game 1. Where in the previous game, every play seemed to involve cutting or working for good shots, in this game we were lazy for the first 2 quarters before waking up around halftime.
- We let Ray Allen set a new record against us. He took so many uncontested shots I suspect he thought he was at practice instead of the finals. No, wait, scratch that. I bet in practice they had better defending to simulate a serious NBA team. There was no answer to this guy the entire first half.
- We let Rondo get 12 rebounds, including 4 on the offensive rebounds. This should never be the case in a Finals game. Our big men need to be more aggressive and our guards have to do their part to box out.
- There were far too many one on one isolation plays. Kobe, Ron, Brown, and Ears are all guilty of this. The offense was forsaken repeatedly and it resulted in turnovers and missed opportunities.
- I know many of us will say this anytime the Lakers lose, but the officiating was particularly egregious today. In many ways, the refs determined the outcome of this game through handing crucial possessions to the undeserving celtics or by taking our best player out of the game by rewarding flops.
- As if the weaknesses in our own team and the irritating and dirty style of Celtic basketball wasn't enough, watching the game with the commentators was torture. Almost every foul called against a Laker was given legitimacy even if it was obviously a poor call, while calls against the celtics were condemned even if they could've called with braille. Case in point: when big baby fouled Pau by ramming him with his body while trying to block a lay up, but the announcers maintained it was a bad call even after seeing the replay.
Kobe: played poorly (by Kobe standards) in the first half. He got a number of assists still and was able to help us come within 6 at the halftime mark, but I would like to see fewer isolation plays without first running the offense. Sometimes its a beautiful thing to watch, but I think the one-on-one should be reserved for when the clock is running down or when he's got the hot hand (in God Mode). In the second half he played conservatively bc he was hobbled by foul trouble. It's to be expected with 5 fouls he won't go all out. I do think it may have made a difference if he complained more about the flops and got a T, just to make a point.
Bynum: played extremely well; possibly his best series of the playoffs. He helped get their big men in foul trouble, kept the boards under control, and made most of his free throws. I can't ask too much more from him.
Pau: so-so game... he wasn't aggressive enough on offense. He annoyed me by missing some easy lay ups. He also helped get their big guys in trouble. I'd like to see the offense go through him a lot more!
Artest: poor game. Ron is a man of extremes. One moment a Nero and the next a villain. I hope we see hero Ron game 3 instead of the clown we saw today, jacking up crazy shots and dribbling away our clock pointlessly.
Fisher: he played a solid game. Not his best, but he has had many worse (haven't forgotten last year). The biggest issue is defense.
LO: like Ron, a man of extremes usually. Today he was poor, shooting bad shots and all.
Farmar: so-so game. He turns it over one play, but made a 3 the next. We need more consistent play if we are to rely on him in the finals.
Sasha: played well, but wasn't in the game long enough to make a significant impact. I like how he plays within the offense and his overall energy, especially on defense. He got an important offensive rebound that led to a Farmar 3, and somehow won a jumpball against big baby.
Brown: another mixed bag, mostly disaster though. He plays with good energy, but he has no brains on the court. He didn't meet his defensive obligations against Allen and made a few unnecessary turnovers. Disappointing overall.
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A Mad Chinaman
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:31 am Post subject: |
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DB - Understand that always being responsible for your detailed background is truly taxing on your time.
Re: Ray Allen
Phil made an interesting statement on how the refs are controlling the game. When Allen is allowed to go in a straight line - even through defenders such as DFish - it was not surprising that he got free looks. Of course, with Shannon doubleteaming Kendrick Perkins (Yikes, Kendrick Perkins) leaving a very hot shooter - there were many examples of brain cramps on the Lakers' side.
Re: LO
Did LO play in the game. Imagine a typically passive player getting three fouls in three minutes provide ample tangible evidence that he was not mentally into the game. Didn't he watch from the sidelines to see how tight the refs were calling the fouls or was he still in dream land with Khloe. Having two straight bad games is inexcusable.
Re: KG Call
How can the refs miss this call?
Re: Lakers' Energy Level
It was very apparent that the Lakers didn't bring close to the same energy that they brought to the first game. They were losing the 50/50 plays and couldn't secure the rebounds that provide additional opportunities for Rondo in transition offense. If the Lakers are able to secure the rebounds, it will control the Celtics' fastbreaks that provided opportunities to spot-up at the 3pt. line.
Re: Celtics' Foul Troubles
With Baby and Shelden getting substantial OT, the Lakers didn't take full advantage of these opportunities. |
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Master)v(ind
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:59 am Post subject: |
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Kobe missed tons of shots he usually makes. Anomally game from him.
Pau Gasol played nice. Should've ran offence through him instead of Kobe in the clutch. Nice defense on KG.
Bynum played pretty decent. Played Perkins really well. terrible team defence, needs to provide help defence against Ray Allen when Fisher was caught in screens
Artest played great defence against Pierce.
Fisher needs to fight through screens better. Major reason we lost was because of leaving Ray Allen wide open
Lamar needs more minutes. If he played more, we could've won the game.
Brown and Farmar was pretty useless like usual.
Sasha gave us a bit of quality minutes.
Phil made the adjustments against Ray Allen in the 2nd half but by the end of the 1st half, damage was already done. Besides Ray Allen, pretty good defensive/offensive game plans nonetheless. Needs to give Lamar more minutes
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coop-a-loop
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 2:31 am Post subject: |
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The refs had several bad calls, but I think this game was lost on three aspects: poor offensive execution, Kobe's foul trouble, and the poor play of the Laker bench.
Offensive execution wise, we went away from what worked best in Game 1 ( the two-man game pick and roll between Gasol and Bryant). Today's game there was too much one-on-one, too much iso, and too much of trying to beat your defender off the dribble. The ball movement was nowhere near as good as game 1, and when things get stagnant in terms of ball movement, you give a good defensive team like the Celtics the big advantage. With all the post ups and iso, I think Phil might have been experimenting this game.
Kobe's foul trouble. 2-3 of them were questionable. It really hampered him defensively, as Rondo was able to put a lot of pressure on Kobe and the Laker D. Having said that, the offense should have run through Gasol.
Laker Bench. Farmar and Brown can't be on the floor together. When they played last night, it seemed like the Basketball IQ level of the Lakers dropped a few notches You can still play them, but not out at the same time. When those two check in and run the backrourt, the ball does not move, it does not go to the person who should get the ball, and the offense just stalls, resulting in a tough shot. Instead of reversing the basketball to the weakside triangle he looks for his shot and dribbles too mucn. What made matters worse is that those two played poor defense on Rondo and Allen...they gave Allen too much space and Farmar picked Rondo up near halfcourt (useless, because Rondo cant shoot), allowing Rondo to blow right by him with is quickness.
Finally, we have Lamar. Out of sync offensively. But he needs to realize that taking guys on one-on-one is not going to do get his game going against the Celtics. He has to play defense, rebound, and make the extra-pass to contribute. So far, he is not doing that and is falling into the trap that he needs to put up points to be an effective contributor. 10 boards, 4-5 assists, and a block are what I hope he will come up with in Game 3. |
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ChefLinda
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Location: Boston
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:57 am Post subject: |
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Reasons for loss were the 4 R's:
Rebounding
Refs
Ray
Rondo |
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prisma8slg
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Joined: 02 Jul 2005
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Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:15 am Post subject: |
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 = lamar
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"I've seen it all. Sasha dunked on somebody," Kobe Bryant said. "I'm ready to retire now." |
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limchrc
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:50 am Post subject: |
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| I'm sad. I hope we win game 3. |
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de4golf
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:06 am Post subject: Odom's Drives to the basket |
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Although Lamar has had the same problem his entire career, he appears to not care to improve his approach to taking the ball to the basket.
1. Drives Left 99% of the time - It takes a lot of work to be able to drive and shoot with your weak hand, but it can be done. Artest only drives to his weak hand side.
2. When he drives, he does not have the ability to control his body when
a defender tries to take a charge. He rams full speed into the defender and gets called for a charge it seems to me like more than half the time. When he sees the defender, slow down a little and take a different route to the basket. Oops, guess that move would require him to sometimes move to the right and use his weak hand for shooting.
3. Both the above appear to be the result of a talented player with insufficient drive to try to get better on handling the ball and driving to the basket. Guess its more fun when you practice to just jack up 3 pointers. |
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coop-a-loop
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:32 am Post subject: |
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Lamar thinks if he scores more, he will help the team. In the process of forcing the issue, he drives into charges and is not looking to use his excellent skills as a rebounder and playmaker.
He needs to go back to the basics. Defense, rebounding, playmaking. 10+ boards, 4-5 assists, blocks, steals, and lots of activity will kick start everything.....then his offense will hopefully come around.
IF he has a good game, Rondo will not be getting 10+ boards. If he has a good game, the ball movement on offense will be A LOt better, especially with a second unit that has guards who fail to move the ball like Farmar and Brown. If he has a good game, that does not mean he has to be scoring points and hitting wide open 3 pt shots. I hope as a veteran, he understands this and looks to make a difference in game 3. |
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jlkr42
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:11 am Post subject: |
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Gotta chase Ray Allen off the 3pt line. Give up midrange 2's if you have to, but don't be giving up easy 3's.
Fight harder on the defensive boards. That includes boxing out.
Just doing those two things would have turned the game around. |
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LuciusAllen
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:31 am Post subject: |
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No rebounds, no rings. The Lakers must out-rebound Boston, period.
A lot of the blame here falls on Lamar, who needs to stay out of foul trouble and crash the boards. But also guys like Kobe and Fish need to see what they can do to keep Rondo away from those mid-range rebounds.
Effort is always strong, but defensive IQ is a little lacking at times. |
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Rick12322
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:35 am Post subject: Re: CELTICS -at- LAKERS - 6/3 - Do-Your-Own Thoughts and :-(( Ratings Night |
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My random thoughts...
 Bynum was a man among boys out there. This game serves as a perfect example for why I wanted Bynum to be featured more in our offense during the regular season. He has the talent to dominate OFFENSIVELY and defensively, but his offensive talent was not cultivated in the regular season as it should have been.
 Kobe looked scared when he drew a deep breath just before tip off. When I saw that expression, I knew we were in a heap of trouble. Not a good sign. Ray Allen with his cool calm demeanor has always been Kobe's Kryptonite. It psyches him out.
We left our one strong point, inside play to Gasol. Why did we do that?
LO, still missing in action.
Aside from Artest's defense, he had a forgettable game.
Fisher couldn't hit the broad side of a barn and got roasted by Allen or Rondo.
The refs were horrible. On one pivotal out of bounds play, they could have reviewed it and seen clearly the ball went off Garnet. They didn't review it. Why? Kobe had some questionable calls on him. Garnet should have fouled out, the refs swallowed their whistle on a Bynum dunk. Why? Paul Pierce looked like he went through the parted Red Sea for an easy layup because Garnet was holding Ron on a screen. Why call all those fouls on Kobe and let that go? Kobe turned to the basket and was fouled by Ray's head, they call a bogus offensive foul on Kobe. Since when can an offensive player not be entitled to the space to turn? That's total BS! Those were momentum changing calls that favored the Celtics on our home court.
Phil warned his team to be cautious of a Celtic comeback, and it came. Doc Rivers tells his team not to worry because they are the best, and they played like they believed it. |
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RVCdesigns
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Location: Turlock, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:03 am Post subject: |
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Thanks DB.
Now my evaluation of the game :
YOU LET RONDO GET 12 REBOUNDS ????????????  |
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RCS926
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Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 16824
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| mike_dee23 wrote: | Kobe Bryant -  - Kobe started taking over, but fouls 4 and 5 handicapped him and the Lakers.
Shannon Brown -   - Don't leave Ray Allen. Don't leave Ray Allen. Don't... DAMN YOU, BROWN. We saw him much more dropping down into the key on defense allowing Allen to set up on the arc.
Andrew Bynum -  - Bosh who? |
Shannon's defense on Ray was absolutely atrocious. I'm OK with the 3s Fish gave up because Allen had to rub Fish off of screens to get those shots. However, Shannon kept sagging off of Allen time and time again, which resulted in 3-4 WIDE OPEN looks for Allen. That is inexcusable when you're guarding a shooter of Ray's caliber. Phil needs to put Shannon on a short leash in this series. If he continues to make these stupid defensive mistakes, then Sasha needs to be given all of Shannon's minutes. |
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Nobody
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Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:24 am Post subject: |
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My thoughts and ratings can be summarized by this emoticon:
Woke up at 2 AM despite it being a workday, watched them fall back early only to convince myself that they can pull it off. Drank a whole lot of coffee to keep me awake, watched until 5:10 AM and went to sleep. Didn't close my eyes until 7 AM. The alarm clock went off at 8:30 and I went to work. Thank you, Lakers, for ruining a wonderful sunny June day once again.
I might be taking this too seriously, but I am completely saddened by yesterday's loss. I don't know what I'll do if we lose in the Finals again.
Hope our boys can win 1 or 2 in Boston, although I must admit that I'm already mentally preparing myself for a letdown. I've watched every single game from 2005/06 til now (didn't watch every game before links & iLP were available, but was still a rabid fan), spent countless nights awake and was a zombie the entire next day, put a sizable amount of money and more importantly time into following this team in every way imaginable and I must say that after a decade and a half I'm feeling completely deflated.
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JTS1
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Joined: 08 Jun 2008
Posts: 5101
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| Nobody wrote: | My thoughts and ratings can be summarized by this emoticon:
Woke up at 2 AM despite it being a workday, watched them fall back early only to convince myself that they can pull it off. Drank a whole lot of coffee to keep me awake, watched until 5:10 AM and went to sleep. Didn't close my eyes until 7 AM. The alarm clock went off at 8:30 and I went to work. Thank you, Lakers, for ruining a wonderful sunny June day once again.
I might be taking this too seriously, but I am completely saddened by yesterday's loss. I don't know what I'll do if we lose in the Finals again.
too bad you don't have a belief in this team.
Hope our boys can win 1 or 2 in Boston, although I must admit that I'm already mentally preparing myself for a letdown. I've watched every single game from 2005/06 til now (didn't watch every game before links & iLP were available, but was still a rabid fan), spent countless nights awake and was a zombie the entire next day, put a sizable amount of money and more importantly time into following this team in every way imaginable and I must say that after a decade and a half I'm feeling completely deflated.
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'How many kids can say growing up that they'll turn pro and play for their favorite team in the world and spend your entire career there? IT'S BEEN A DREAM!'-Kobe Bryant 11.29.15  |
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RCS926
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Joined: 05 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| ABynum17 wrote: | Instead of assessing their performance, I'll make some suggestions instead:
1) I think it's time for Kobe to play without the splint. This team is making him work VERY hard defensively, so we need him to be in perfect condition. Their coaching staff knows how to make substitutions, so we don't have the same coaching advantage(or an advantage at all, especially if you add Thibodeau.) It's clear that if Allen plays full minutes, their team becomes almost impossible to defend. I mean, defending Pierce, Allen, and Rondo full-time is a monumental task.
2) I think Bynum should also considered playing without that brace. Once again, this team is making Kobe work VERY hard defensively, so it's going to be tough for him to be our goto guy consistently. If let's say that extra explosiveness enables him to become a "consistent post option" against Perkins or even Davis, then that would be a huge help, because other than Pau and Kobe, we have no one else to rely on right now.
That damn brace shouldn't be mandatory. Let's put it this way, at worst, he'd get a season-ending injury, but if we don't win at least two on the road, the season is over anyway. We can't rely on homecourt because this team has too many strong minded players. In fact, they've been the best road team in the postseason. Their 3-pronged attack in the backcourt seems to be overwhelming Kobe, Fisher and Artest, so we need a HUGE advantage in the frontcourt to offset.
3) We've gotta find a way to make more of our "circus shots" like KG did, in the first possession. I don't know how Doc's been able to get his guys to do that(or maybe Pau did), but if we can't match that, then we have no shot, because it appears that we can't defend them all. Even if we defend Allen and Rondo well next game, I bet KG and Pierce will go off.
4) I think Pau's comment on KG hurt us. We had to double KG every time, even when he was "already covered," and that led to a bunch of wide open layups for guys like Perkins and Rondo. If Pau hadn't said anything, then we could have hoped that he takes the jumpers and choked. Oh well, I guess we have to live with it now(how about backing up your teammates Drew? After all, they've done the same for you all postseason.)
5) Odom shouldn't take any shots at all. He's either too weak-minded, or their defense is this good. I'd go with the former, but right now, we can't afford to be like Phoenix with Frye and hope that he toughens up mentally. The way I see it, Pau and Bynum should play 40+ min the rest of the way. And it's up to Bynum to make enough of an impact such that we won't have to rely on Odom at all.
6) I would restrict our backcourt rotation to Brown and Sasha and just let them play defense, and let Pau, Bynum and Kobe be the goto guys. Farmar and Brown's shot creating ability is just too inconsistent. I think as long as they hold the opposing bench guards' to single-digit points, then that should be considered a victory.
7) It's time for everyone to start searching their heart. Do they really want to lose to this team again or not? We have to find a way to make "tough" shots, because that's mostly what we'll get. Be like KG and find whatever that can motivate you. Even if they can only make themselves a threat, then that's good enough. |
I’m sorry to say this, but there is some very poor analysis in your post especially considering how much you wrote.
1) The splint has not hampered Kobe in the playoffs. He was shooting lights out in the previous two rounds, so the splint is not a factor. Plus, it doesn’t affect Kobe’s decision making. Kobe simply has to refrain from going 1 on 5. It didn’t work in 2008 and won’t work in 2010.
2) It would be absolutely stupid for Drew to play without the brace. He has already stopped wearing the extremely restrictive brace that really limited his movement and explosion. The current brace he’s wearing is preventing Drew from further tearing his meniscus. In light of what he gave us last night, there’s no need for Drew to take the brace off. We just need him to continue to play with the same effort and intensity.
3) How is making “circus shots” part of any game plan? The Lakers simply need to pound the ball inside.
4) How did Pau’s comments about KG hurt us? What did KG do to hurt us last night?
5) I agree that LO is playing weak-minded basketball. However, we need him to play effective minutes. Drew is not capable of playing 40 mpg.
6) If any of our backcourt guards needs to see reduced minutes, it is Shannon. His boneheaded defense on Ray Allen was extremely costly and inexcusable. Jordan has done a lot of very good things for us over the 1st two games despite some poor turnovers. His speed is an issue for Boston. Sasha needs to take all of Shannon’s minutes especially if Shannon continues to make mental errors on the defensive end.
7) I didn’t see any problems with the Lakers’ “heart”. Just as making “circus shots” isn’t part of any sound game plan, neither is making difficult shots. The key is to play smart and continue to use our size to attack Boston. |
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RCS926
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Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 16824
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:35 am Post subject: |
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| PopcornMachine wrote: | Lakers Game Plan Today:
A) Play D, force missed shots, but don't bother to rebound the misses.
B) If the score is close in the 4th ... dontworryaboutit ... relax.
C) After realizing you should have worried about it, start jacking up 3s or other crazy shots assuming you will get the foul call.
Set plays? What's a play? We have an offense?
That is all. |
PCM, it's OK to say it. Kobe-ball hurt us down the stretch. Artest was particularly poor on offense with his decision-making and shot selection. |
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RCS926
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Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 16824
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| slippy wrote: | Lakers have been outscored in the 4th quarter for 6 straight games. In other words, they go into the 4th quarter with a big lead and struggle to keep it, or they go into the 4th quarter close and fail to pull out.
Having said that, I called that the Lakers and Boston would split the first 2 games, and since we won game 1, I'm not that worried. Lakers have to win either game 3 or 4 now. |
It's just stupid to go to Kobe-ball in the 4th especially against the Celts. One guy isn't going to beat the Celts by himself even if that player is Kobe Bryant. The Lakers need to make a concerted effort to run their offense for 4 quarters. I don't mind Kobe taking most of the shots at the end of games, but those shots need to come from within the offense. |
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RCS926
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| Texas_Pete wrote: | I am upset about the loss, but remain confident. Big Drew showed why he should not be traded for Bosh. 7 blocks in the Finals? I'll take that. If they bothered to rebound better (Rondo of all people had 12) they win going away. Yes, Rondo is a good rebounder, but he is a friggen guard and we start TWO 7 footers.
Time to see what they are made of on the road. Something tells me that they will rise up to the occasion. |
Drew definitely needs to remain in the purple and gold next season. |
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drzucchini
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Joined: 28 Sep 2002
Posts: 16327
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:17 am Post subject: Re: CELTICS -at- LAKERS - 6/3 - Do-Your-Own Thoughts and :-(( Ratings Night |
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| Rick12322 wrote: | | Kobe looked scared when he drew a deep breath just before tip off. When I saw that expression, I knew we were in a heap of trouble. Not a good sign. Ray Allen with his cool calm demeanor has always been Kobe's Kryptonite. It psyches him out. |
Since when are perceived looks and gut feelings a substitute for actual analysis? |
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don ford
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Posts: 194
Location: western el lay
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:38 am Post subject: |
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1. Disparity in FG%
13/20: FGM/FGA for Bynum and Gasol
12/41: FGM/FGA for Artest, Odom, Fisher, and Kobe
That means Bynum and Gasol made more FGs than the other group, while taking less than half the number of shots.
2. Ray Allen
Sheesh, what can you say - great shooting, amazing.
3. The D on Allen / Rondo
Kobe can't guard Rondo and Allen. When he switched to Allen, then Rondo went off (sigh).
4. Kobe's Foul Trouble
Even if the calls were bad, complaints don't create W's. It is what it is, but the reduction in minutes for Kobe was obviously a huge factor.
5. Rebounding
No Rebounds, No Rings. (Although Bynum/Gasol's 13 blocks - wow.) |
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slaker
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Joined: 29 Jun 2001
Posts: 1723
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:40 am Post subject: |
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Can't blame DB for taking the night off...
Agree with most of what everyone said...
I do take issue with the refs...
The calls pretty much sucked both ways but both teams were fighting through it...
But, the KG call changed the game... I don't understand what happened really... I thought the TV guys said it was reviewed and the call not changed - which shocked them... and me! Another poster on LG said it wasn't reviewed so I'm really wondering what the hell happened and what the refs justification was... not that they'll give one...
The Doc t/o call was just insult to injury... we were trying hard to make a comeback that that killed any hope...
But as was mentioned anyone not named Kobe, Pau, or Bynum pretty much stunk up the building...
Edit: forgot Sasha...
Fish... he got burned so much he had to stink... 
Last edited by slaker on Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
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