| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Vishnu
Franchise Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 16558
|
 Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think painting anyone who dislikes The Last Jedi as sexist isn’t fair. That kind of ignores the fact that many people who dislike The Last Jedi love The Force Awakens. Rey is the hero in both movies.
On the trailer, I was somewhat underwhelmed. I bought tickets for the first four days regardless but I was expecting more. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
kikanga
Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29773
Location: La La Land
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Not a fan of Kylo Ren. And since he's such a big part of the story, it's tough to get past that.
Will still watch the movie for the spectacle. But since I really don't care about at least 1/2 the story (Kylo Ren's part), I'll wait a month after release and see it on the cheap on a Tuesday. Not even worried about stumbling upon spoilers.
_________________
"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
waterman40
Star Player
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Posts: 6294
Location: Central Coast
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
I have no problem at all with Ren; would be nice to have more background on her character. If anything, the story surrounding Ren hasn't been all that good - she is like a Natalie Portman, a better actress than the material presented in the Star Wars films.
The last few films, with the exception of Rogue One, have been Meh. I've still watched them, got my ten bucks worth, but the latest ones are like average Star Trek films. The first three were great art and four of the last five have been quite average.
Lots of fun sure, better than an episode of Green Acres, but Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, have been better series top to bottom. I'm sure others can insert their favorites; Avengers, Matrix, etc.
_________________
LAKERS 2019-2020: NBA World Champions! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
999
Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 20267
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ocho wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | loslakersss wrote: | | Rogue One is the best Star Wars movie since Empire. It's among the best 3, IMO. |
I agree and that basically dragged until the third act. I think everyone, except Kathleen Kennedy, realizes these movies aren't good. The excuses for them are even more insulting: sexist fanboys, oversaturation when Marvel pumps out 3 a year with no blowback (poor Solo, if only it had a Christmas release...). In other words, blame the fans. |
| 999 wrote: | i absolutely hate the new trilogy. I wanted to see a new Jedi council, what happened to the jedi temple on coruscant?, I wanted to see the republic restored again, and i wanted luke to be more like a leader like yoda instead of just a whiny character. but we saw 5 straight films of the jedi on the brink of extinction. they just keep hashing and rehashing the same old story line and throw in a couple of unexpected deaths of main characters and you end up with complete unfiltered ass of a film.
and why change the main character from a boy to a girl. the films has always been a father/son redemption story. where does Rey fit in all this mess. shes a nobody. |
I'm not sayin' . . . I'm just sayin'. |
After experiencing the discussions surrounding The Last Jedi, there’s something actually refreshing about “I wanted to see a boy hold the laser sword.” At least they’re being real and not dancing around it. |
That has nothing to do with it. What's the identity on Rey? I can't relate to her as the lead character. She's just an orphan who was ditched by her family and now is able to use the force without any training. I think Ashoka tano was a much better character than Rey. She is warrior. Someone people can rally behind. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ocho
Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 54122
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
| 999 wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | loslakersss wrote: | | Rogue One is the best Star Wars movie since Empire. It's among the best 3, IMO. |
I agree and that basically dragged until the third act. I think everyone, except Kathleen Kennedy, realizes these movies aren't good. The excuses for them are even more insulting: sexist fanboys, oversaturation when Marvel pumps out 3 a year with no blowback (poor Solo, if only it had a Christmas release...). In other words, blame the fans. |
| 999 wrote: | i absolutely hate the new trilogy. I wanted to see a new Jedi council, what happened to the jedi temple on coruscant?, I wanted to see the republic restored again, and i wanted luke to be more like a leader like yoda instead of just a whiny character. but we saw 5 straight films of the jedi on the brink of extinction. they just keep hashing and rehashing the same old story line and throw in a couple of unexpected deaths of main characters and you end up with complete unfiltered ass of a film.
and why change the main character from a boy to a girl. the films has always been a father/son redemption story. where does Rey fit in all this mess. shes a nobody. |
I'm not sayin' . . . I'm just sayin'. |
After experiencing the discussions surrounding The Last Jedi, there’s something actually refreshing about “I wanted to see a boy hold the laser sword.” At least they’re being real and not dancing around it. |
That has nothing to do with it. What's the identity on Rey? I can't relate to her as the lead character. She's just an orphan who was ditched by her family and now is able to use the force without any training. I think Ashoka tano was a much better character than Rey. She is warrior. Someone people can rally behind. |
With respect, you’ve already given up the game.
_________________
14-5-3-12 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ocho
Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 54122
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Vishnu wrote: | I think painting anyone who dislikes The Last Jedi as sexist isn’t fair. That kind of ignores the fact that many people who dislike The Last Jedi love The Force Awakens. Rey is the hero in both movies.
On the trailer, I was somewhat underwhelmed. I bought tickets for the first four days regardless but I was expecting more. |
You’re right, but I have read and engaged with a lot of the internet’s criticism of the last movie. The amount of coherent critiques amount to a drop in the ocean compared with those that devolve into some variation of “I don’t like that a woman is at the center of this, SJWs, et all”
_________________
14-5-3-12 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
999
Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 20267
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ocho wrote: | | 999 wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | loslakersss wrote: | | Rogue One is the best Star Wars movie since Empire. It's among the best 3, IMO. |
I agree and that basically dragged until the third act. I think everyone, except Kathleen Kennedy, realizes these movies aren't good. The excuses for them are even more insulting: sexist fanboys, oversaturation when Marvel pumps out 3 a year with no blowback (poor Solo, if only it had a Christmas release...). In other words, blame the fans. |
| 999 wrote: | i absolutely hate the new trilogy. I wanted to see a new Jedi council, what happened to the jedi temple on coruscant?, I wanted to see the republic restored again, and i wanted luke to be more like a leader like yoda instead of just a whiny character. but we saw 5 straight films of the jedi on the brink of extinction. they just keep hashing and rehashing the same old story line and throw in a couple of unexpected deaths of main characters and you end up with complete unfiltered ass of a film.
and why change the main character from a boy to a girl. the films has always been a father/son redemption story. where does Rey fit in all this mess. shes a nobody. |
I'm not sayin' . . . I'm just sayin'. |
After experiencing the discussions surrounding The Last Jedi, there’s something actually refreshing about “I wanted to see a boy hold the laser sword.” At least they’re being real and not dancing around it. |
That has nothing to do with it. What's the identity on Rey? I can't relate to her as the lead character. She's just an orphan who was ditched by her family and now is able to use the force without any training. I think Ashoka tano was a much better character than Rey. She is warrior. Someone people can rally behind. |
With respect, you’ve already given up the game. |
lol that is not fair. you cant label someone as sexist just because they don't like the lead character and story line in the new Star Wars Trilogy |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
999
Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 20267
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
AShoka tano, Ventress Assaj, Sabine Wren, Hera Syndula, arinda price, Bariss Offee, Mother Talzin, etc etc...
they were all better written characters than Rey. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ocho
Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 54122
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
| 999 wrote: | AShoka tano, Ventress Assaj, Sabine Wren, Hera Syndula, arinda price, Bariss Offee, Mother Talzin, etc etc...
they were all better written characters than Rey. |
And yet, your complaint in your own words was:
| Quote: | | and why change the main character from a boy to a girl. |
You are not alone. This is the general theme of outrage towards the last movie and even critiques that begin elsewhere generally end up here if you pull the thread long enough.
_________________
14-5-3-12 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ocho wrote: | | Vishnu wrote: | I think painting anyone who dislikes The Last Jedi as sexist isn’t fair. That kind of ignores the fact that many people who dislike The Last Jedi love The Force Awakens. Rey is the hero in both movies.
On the trailer, I was somewhat underwhelmed. I bought tickets for the first four days regardless but I was expecting more. |
You’re right, but I have read and engaged with a lot of the internet’s criticism of the last movie. The amount of coherent critiques amount to a drop in the ocean compared with those that devolve into some variation of “I don’t like that a woman is at the center of this, SJWs, et all” |
That’s the problem with internet discussions of SciFi in general, isn’t it? I never would have thought that this would have become a battleground for the far right, but it did.
Anyway, I liked the Rey character in The Force Awakens. The second movie was just weird in a lot of ways. I can’t say that I liked the development of any of the characters in The Last Jedi. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kikanga
Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29773
Location: La La Land
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
How the hell does Rey get so much criticism when Kylo Ren has 2 modes? Emo mad and emo sad. 
At least Rey's progressed throughout the story. Kylo is a top spinning in circles. His motivations are unclear. Nothing enjoyable about watching his character. Probably the worst star wars villain ever.
Imagine if the prequels had Anakin turn to the dark side but cut out his whole reasoning to do so (saving Padme). That's Kylo Ren.
_________________
"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Last edited by kikanga on Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:02 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
loslakersss
Franchise Player
Joined: 31 Dec 2008
Posts: 11853
Location: LA
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Yeah, TLJ just went in completely different directions that what TFA set up. TFA had me very excited for the new trilogy but TLJ had me considering never watching a SW movie again. I don't want to say it was a bad movie - although I will die on the hill that is Canto Bight is the worst SW sub-plot ever - but I didn't like it and it really didn't feel in line with the lore that we know from all of the other movies. It just felt like a lot of curveballs for the sake of being surprising when we didn't necessarily want to be surprised, we just want to adventure with characters we've grown to love, and see good battle evil. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
999
Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 20267
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ocho wrote: | | 999 wrote: | AShoka tano, Ventress Assaj, Sabine Wren, Hera Syndula, arinda price, Bariss Offee, Mother Talzin, etc etc...
they were all better written characters than Rey. |
And yet, your complaint in your own words was:
| Quote: | | and why change the main character from a boy to a girl. |
You are not alone. This is the general theme of outrage towards the last movie and even critiques that begin elsewhere generally end up here if you pull the thread long enough. |
than my choice of words is wrong... if Rey was character was developed like the characters that i mentioned than I would not have a problem with this trilogy |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bol
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 4045
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
I think Rey is pretty much the only good thing about the new movies. Only problem I had with her was her using a relatively advanced force ability like the Jedi mind trick in the first movie with no training whatsoever.
The new trailer looks somewhat promising though, so perhaps the last movie can salvage the trilogy, as I personally felt Revenge of the Sith did for the prequels. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
999
Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 20267
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Bol wrote: | I think Rey is pretty much the only good thing about the new movies. Only problem I had with her was her using a relatively advanced force ability like the Jedi mind trick in the first movie with no training whatsoever.
The new trailer looks somewhat promising though, so perhaps the last movie can salvage the trilogy, as I personally felt Revenge of the Sith did for the prequels. |
i disagree i think filoni saved the prequels with the clone wars and rebels... the cartoon story lines is much better than all the movies |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dr. Laker
Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17181
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
1. I hate that they reset the canon that had been established in the books. Snoke/Kylo/Planet buster was just a recycle of Palpatine/Vader/Death Star. Had they pursued the Grand Moff Tarkin, Black Sun or Clone Palpatine roads paved in the original canon, the series would've hung together better.
2. JJ Abrams ruined Star Trek and has been even worse with Star Wars.
3. The one-offs (Solo, Rogue One) have been MUCH better than Eps 1,2, 7 & 8.
All that being said, I will continue my 42 year long tradition of watching Star Wars movies.
_________________
On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns". |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LakesGnrLake
Star Player
Joined: 07 Apr 2011
Posts: 1308
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
| kikanga wrote: | How the hell does Rey get so much criticism when Kylo Ren has 2 modes? Emo mad and emo sad.
At least Rey's progressed throughout the story. Kylo is a top spinning in circles. His motivations are unclear. Nothing enjoyable about watching his character. Probably the worst star wars villain ever.
Imagine if the prequels had Anakin turn to the dark side but cut out his whole reasoning to do so (saving Padme). That's Kylo Ren. |
At least to me Kylo Ren is the only interesting character to come out of this trilogy. His motivations are pretty clear. He's a try hard that wants to become the next Vader but is constantly being pulled to the light and is doing everything he can to avoid that. A much more interesting character than Rey who as far as we know is good at everything just because she is. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
loslakersss
Franchise Player
Joined: 31 Dec 2008
Posts: 11853
Location: LA
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I don't get the Rey hate either. The same thing that made Boba Fett so popular is what makes her unpopular - the mysteriousness. Weird. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ocho
Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 54122
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Vishnu wrote: | I think painting anyone who dislikes The Last Jedi as sexist isn’t fair. That kind of ignores the fact that many people who dislike The Last Jedi love The Force Awakens. Rey is the hero in both movies.
On the trailer, I was somewhat underwhelmed. I bought tickets for the first four days regardless but I was expecting more. |
You’re right, but I have read and engaged with a lot of the internet’s criticism of the last movie. The amount of coherent critiques amount to a drop in the ocean compared with those that devolve into some variation of “I don’t like that a woman is at the center of this, SJWs, et all” |
That’s the problem with internet discussions of SciFi in general, isn’t it? I never would have thought that this would have become a battleground for the far right, but it did.
Anyway, I liked the Rey character in The Force Awakens. The second movie was just weird in a lot of ways. I can’t say that I liked the development of any of the characters in The Last Jedi. |
That’s true in the general sense that any internet discussion of anything has some element of dumpster fire to it, but the uproar over TLJ went above and beyond. The nastiest film internet bile gets reserved for genre movies headed by a female (like the female Ghostbuster’s remake that was hated before it even opened). Star Wars just happens to sit perfectly at the junction of that kind of fan, entitled geek culture neckbeards, and middle aged types that see any change to the characters or story as an affront to their upbringing. I’m happy to discuss TLJ on the merits (and did so in that thread) but here and elsewhere it was hard to miss that pretty quickly the conversation devolves into those kinds of complaints.
_________________
14-5-3-12
Last edited by ocho on Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:57 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ocho
Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 54122
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| loslakersss wrote: | | I don't get the Rey hate either. The same thing that made Boba Fett so popular is what makes her unpopular - the mysteriousness. Weird. |
One of the unmistakable conclusions from these discussions in general is how often the original trilogy wouldn’t hold up to the same criticisms of the new trilogy.
_________________
14-5-3-12 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
loslakersss
Franchise Player
Joined: 31 Dec 2008
Posts: 11853
Location: LA
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ocho wrote: | | loslakersss wrote: | | I don't get the Rey hate either. The same thing that made Boba Fett so popular is what makes her unpopular - the mysteriousness. Weird. |
One of the unmistakable conclusions from these discussions in general is how often the original trilogy wouldn’t hold up to the same criticisms of the new trilogy. |
Was ROTJ heavily criticized upon release because of the ewoks or is that just overblown now? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
| loslakersss wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | loslakersss wrote: | | I don't get the Rey hate either. The same thing that made Boba Fett so popular is what makes her unpopular - the mysteriousness. Weird. |
One of the unmistakable conclusions from these discussions in general is how often the original trilogy wouldn’t hold up to the same criticisms of the new trilogy. |
Was ROTJ heavily criticized upon release because of the ewoks or is that just overblown now? |
“Heavily” would be an exaggeration. It did draw a fair bit of criticism for injecting such a blatant product placement device into the movie. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ocho wrote: | | That’s true in the general sense that any internet discussion of anything has some element of dumpster fire to it, but the uproar over TLJ went above and beyond. The nastiest film internet bile gets reserved for genre movies headed by a female (like the female Ghostbuster’s remake that was hated before it even opened). Star Wars just happens to sit perfectly at the junction of that kind of fan, entitled geek culture neckbeards, and middle aged types that see any change to the characters or story as an affront to their upbringing. I’m happy to discuss TLJ on the merits (and did so in that thread) but here and elsewhere it was hard to miss that pretty quickly the conversation devolves into those kinds of complaints. |
I’m talking about the whole flap about gamers gate or whatever it was called, with whatever website got into the middle of all of that. I was oblivious at the time, but since then I’ve been appalled by some of the bile that came spewing out. I think that’s where terms like SJW became popular. This makes me discount anything like that now. Most ordinary people bailed out on those discussions, leaving the lunatics to call each other names. I see that stuff from time to time and just wonder if these people have anything remotely resembling a life. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ocho
Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 54122
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | That’s true in the general sense that any internet discussion of anything has some element of dumpster fire to it, but the uproar over TLJ went above and beyond. The nastiest film internet bile gets reserved for genre movies headed by a female (like the female Ghostbuster’s remake that was hated before it even opened). Star Wars just happens to sit perfectly at the junction of that kind of fan, entitled geek culture neckbeards, and middle aged types that see any change to the characters or story as an affront to their upbringing. I’m happy to discuss TLJ on the merits (and did so in that thread) but here and elsewhere it was hard to miss that pretty quickly the conversation devolves into those kinds of complaints. |
I’m talking about the whole flap about gamers gate or whatever it was called, with whatever website got into the middle of all of that. I was oblivious at the time, but since then I’ve been appalled by some of the bile that came spewing out. I think that’s where terms like SJW became popular. This makes me discount anything like that now. Most ordinary people bailed out on those discussions, leaving the lunatics to call each other names. I see that stuff from time to time and just wonder if these people have anything remotely resembling a life. |
Well that answer is obvious. The internet permanently removed the rock they used to live under. Now they can all find each other, organize and mobilize.
_________________
14-5-3-12 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lakersken80
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38953
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Star Wars like Star Trek shows how hard it is to remake a cultural phenomenon. I doubt these 3 sequels will ever be put in the same vein as the original trilogy even though it made Disney a lot of money. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
