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DaMuleRules
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 Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: |
It doesn't bother me so much as the principal of the entire thing. I don't like preachiness. I don't like segregation. I don't like blanket generalizations and finger pointing.
I'm not debating that it's actually a bad message. I just don't like the principal of it. When you send out a message, you have to be careful how you phrase it/ or target it. Because then, it comes off as blaming.
So, if you're only targeting men, then you're only blaming men. So the principal of that is what I'm against. Like I said earlier, my biggest gripe is not the message, it's the target. Make the target of the message gender neutral. Stop sexual assault/harassment, period. Once you only target men, now you're saying - only men are doing it. We only need to solve the problems that men have with this issue. Women don't have issues relating to sexual assault/harassment. Women don't do these things. Teachers and students? Nah, we're not worried about those kinds of assaults. Just the kinds that men do.
If you really think about it - it's pretty much all these powerful men in Hollywood that are doing these acts.
And Gillette's solution to this? Let's send an ad out to the common man. All common men for the acts of these few Hollywood men.
But if it's only a youtube video, then it was my choice to click on it. It wasn't forced upon me like a TV ad. |
No. Anyone who is aware of reality knows it's not even remotely confined to Hollywood. Misogyny, sexual harassment and assault are behaviors that exist amongst males of all walks of life and pre-date "Hollywood" by forever.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: |
It doesn't bother me so much as the principal of the entire thing. I don't like preachiness. I don't like segregation. I don't like blanket generalizations and finger pointing.
I'm not debating that it's actually a bad message. I just don't like the principal of it. When you send out a message, you have to be careful how you phrase it/ or target it. Because then, it comes off as blaming.
So, if you're only targeting men, then you're only blaming men. So the principal of that is what I'm against. Like I said earlier, my biggest gripe is not the message, it's the target. Make the target of the message gender neutral. Stop sexual assault/harassment, period. Once you only target men, now you're saying - only men are doing it. We only need to solve the problems that men have with this issue. Women don't have issues relating to sexual assault/harassment. Women don't do these things. Teachers and students? Nah, we're not worried about those kinds of assaults. Just the kinds that men do.
If you really think about it - it's pretty much all these powerful men in Hollywood that are doing these acts.
And Gillette's solution to this? Let's send an ad out to the common man. All common men for the acts of these few Hollywood men.
But if it's only a youtube video, then it was my choice to click on it. It wasn't forced upon me like a TV ad. |
No. Anyone who is aware of reality knows it's not even remotely confined to Hollywood. Misogyny, sexual harassment and assault are behaviors that exist amongst males of all walks of life and pre-date "Hollywood" by forever. |
Not saying it's confined to Hollywood.
The recent events/actions of these Hollywood men which lead to the #metoo movement which lead to this ad targeting ALL COMMON MEN.
And reality is that the common man doesn't have issues with misogyny, sexual harassment and assault. Do you agree with that statement? Do you have issues with misogyny, sexual harassment and assault?
And you're saying there's no sexual harassment from females? |
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ocho
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | And reality is that the common man doesn't have issues with misogyny, sexual harassment and assault. |
The very fact that women all over the country could spend a year or so telling their stories of experiencing misogyny and harassment only to have you deny it is pretty compelling evidence that what you wrote is false.
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | And reality is that the common man doesn't have issues with misogyny, sexual harassment and assault. |
The very fact that women all over the country could spend a year or so telling their stories of experiencing misogyny and harassment only to have you deny it is pretty compelling evidence that what you wrote is false. |
Do you have issues with misogyny, sexual harassment and assault? |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: |
Not saying it's confined to Hollywood.
The recent events/actions of these Hollywood men which lead to the #metoo movement which lead to this ad targeting ALL COMMON MEN. |
Because the behavior depicted exists in common men. There is nothing in the ad that said it is common to ALL men. In fact, quite the opposite. The ad depicts the positive examples of many men.
| Quote: | | And reality is that the common man doesn't have issues with misogyny, sexual harassment and assault. Do you agree with that statement? |
Of course I don't. Because I'm not an idiot. Those behaviors exist all too commonly across men of all descriptions, including the "common man". To pretend otherwise would be to ignore reality.
| Quote: | | Do you have issues with misogyny, sexual harassment and assault? |
I've strived to not engage in those things. But I am well aware that such things are all too common with far too many men. And sadly, far too many women in my life have been impacted by those behaviors.
| Quote: | | And you're saying there's no sexual harassment from females? |
Of course not. But that's a false equivalency for many reasons.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: |
| Quote: | | Do you have issues with misogyny, sexual harassment and assault? |
I've strived to not engage in those things. But I am well aware that such things are all too common with far too many men. And sadly, far too many women in my life have been impacted by those behaviors.
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That's good. So you don't have issues. I don't have issues with it.
Anyone in your family or your friends have issues with misogyny, sexual harassment and assault?
So anyways, has this message/ad been good for you? Has it enlightened you in any way? Made you more aware?
Or are you saying it would be helpful for other people, just not for you? |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="LongBeachPoly"] | DaMuleRules wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: |
| Quote: | | Do you have issues with misogyny, sexual harassment and assault? |
I've strived to not engage in those things. But I am well aware that such things are all too common with far too many men. And sadly, far too many women in my life have been impacted by those behaviors.
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That's good. So you don't have issues. I don't have issues with it.
Anyone in your family or your friends have issues with misogyny, sexual harassment and assault? |
Such behaviors exist all too prevalently (and undeniably) in male society across all walks of life. So I'm not sure why you think there is any ground to be gained by arguing that personal experience proves otherwise. Anyone who says they unaware of it is either incredibly unobservant, naive or just a flat out liar.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:05 am Post subject: |
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[quote="DaMuleRules"] | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: |
| Quote: | | Do you have issues with misogyny, sexual harassment and assault? |
I've strived to not engage in those things. But I am well aware that such things are all too common with far too many men. And sadly, far too many women in my life have been impacted by those behaviors.
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That's good. So you don't have issues. I don't have issues with it.
Anyone in your family or your friends have issues with misogyny, sexual harassment and assault? |
Such behaviors exist all too prevalently (and undeniably) in male society across all walks of life. So I'm not sure why you think there is any ground to be gained by arguing that personal experience proves otherwise. Anyone who says they unaware of it is either incredibly unobservant, naive or just a flat out liar. |
Well you did say:
| Quote: | Exactly. And it's not "aimed" at the sexual predators. It's purpose is to remind people that the societal attitudes that downplay the significance of the behavior ("boys will be boys" etc.) are an issue that needs to be left behind.
And if there is anyone who doesn't see that as still an issue has had their head bury deep in the sand (or elsewhere) the last couple of years. |
So, have you found the ad useful to YOU? You are a part of society correct? Have you found it useful? Anyone in your household found it useful? Any one of your friends/family/neighbors found it useful?
I mean, if your whole point is that this is a useful message, surely, you know of someone who found it useful? I mean, who are you speaking for? America?
Have YOU found it useful, is my question. You said, such behaviors exist all too prevalently (and undeniably) in male society across all walks of life. (speaking about: misogyny, sexual harassment and assault).
But you don't need this message do you? And I don't need this message. But, any of your friends/family/coworkers in need of this reminder?
What is your position actually? First you said the message is NOT for the actual sexual predators - so then it's for people like you and I? But I asked you, have you found the message to be useful?
I mean, honestly, what exactly is your position? Who is the message for? If it's not for the sexual predators, and it's not for you or people like you (your family, friends, etc), then who is the message for exactly?
If you can't use the message, then aren't you trying to force it upon others?
So, have you found this message useful? Have you been enlightened/made aware?
Or is your whole angle - well, I don't need it, and my friends and family certainly don't need it, but I think other people in America need it. This message is good for other people, just not for me?
One more question - do you agree that the message should be expanded to include women as well? Or do you feel it should be limited to men only? |
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Aussiesuede
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:26 am Post subject: |
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Rank in order of prevalence and destructive capacity to the victim of the following in the United states:
1) Female upon Male Hypergamy
2) Male upon Female Hypergamy
3) Female upon male Sexual Assault
4) Male upon Female Sexual Assault
In order of prevalence and destructive capacity I rank as follows:
1 - 4 - 2 - 3
_________________
I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:41 am Post subject: |
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Pretty clear that whatever positive message it was intending to send, hasn't been delivered which of course is the job of the ad creator. I suspected this on the initial watch because of the conflating of traditional masculinity with toxic masculinity. Of course you'll always get the loud outragers and supporters on the fringes who really just want to be heard and the liberal and conservative media taking their usual and predictable stances on the matter. Response from within the ad industry has been mixed with some calling it brave and others suggesting it could end up being the biggest marketing blunder of 2019.
Pushing all that aside, and looking at how it's been received as a whole thus far ... to say it hasn't been received would be a severe understatement. In fact, there is no data to suggest this has been sending a positive message at all and the degree to which that is the case is particularly striking. Sure, you ask a leftie and they'll say "awesome message" and you ask a righty and they'll say "horrible message" but what's more interesting is ... how is the ad actually performing and to what degree? Data coming up! |
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Surfitall
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:56 am Post subject: |
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I prefer to get my social interaction instructions from New Clorox Performance Bleach with CLOROMAX.
“Clorox has spent over 100 years making everyday life better, every day.” |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:30 am Post subject: |
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(Data as of 1/18/19) There are 4 videos with the same number of dislikes as the Gillette ad. One of them has been removed from YouTube so I don’t have the data for that one. Additionally, for context, I included the Nike Kaepernick ad since that was a recent controversial campaign although it didn’t have the same number of dislikes.
Like/Dislike Ratio = Upvotes / Downvotes. This ratio tells you the degree to which people liked or disliked a video. The larger the number, the better. Most videos have a ratio of around 5-10.
Engagement = (Upvotes + Downvotes) / Total Views. In short, this tells you the degree to which a video's viewers felt the need to cast their vote. The larger the number, the more a video engaged its viewer. Most videos have a very low engagement level (below 1%).
Videos with Same Number of Dislikes
| Quote: | Rap Devil - Machine Gun Kelly
Added: Sept 2018 (5 months)
Total Views: 188M
Upvotes: 2.0M
Downvotes: 1.0M
Like/Dislike Ratio: 2.0
Engagement: 1.6%
Axel F - Crazy Frog
Added: June 2009 (9 years)
Total Views: 1.5B
Upvotes: 5.3M
Downvotes: 1.0M
Like/Dislike Ratio: 5.3
Engagement: 0.4%
The Gummy Bear Song
Added: Oct 2007 (11 years)
Total Views: 1.5B
Upvotes: 3.0M
Downvotes: 1.0M
Like/Dislike Ratio: 3.0
Engagement: 0.3%
Nike Kaepernick Ad
Added: Sept 2018 (5 months)
Total Views: 27M
Upvotes: 0.15M
Downvotes: 0.02M
Like/Dislike Ratio: 7.5
Engagement: 0.6%
Gillette Commercial
Added: Jan 2019 (4 days)
Total Views: 19M
Upvotes: 0.5M
Downvotes: 1.0M
Like/Dislike Ratio: 0.5
Engagement: 7.9% |
Early data at least is looking very bad for this ad. What took other videos 10 years to accrue 1M dislikes, the Gillette ad managed to do this in 4 days. The engagement level is very high (which can be good) but the Like/Dislike Ratio is in severe and frankly, rather unprecedented negative territory. The average YouTube video gets a Like/Dislike Ratio in the 5-10 territory. The Gillette ad is sitting at 0.5 which is very rare. You could watch YouTube videos all day and not see a like/dislike ratio that low.
All that said, it's only been 4 days. Time will tell on what the true sentiment of the viewers of the ad is. But in the early going, if there's a positive message for the masses in this ad, it hasn't been received.
Last edited by ringfinger on Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:31 am; edited 1 time in total |
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LakerLanny
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| LakersChamps04 wrote: | | I dont know why anyone still buys Gillette razors or shavers. There's many better and cheaper alternatives out there. I haven't bought Gillette in yearssss |
Gillette is Boston anyway, boycott! 
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Love, Laker Lanny |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:46 am Post subject: |
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Here’s that Gillette ad, as apparently seen by all the men who hated it
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:29 am Post subject: |
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Sounds rational
Take the most extreme opposing viewpoint, exaggerate it, then mock it.
The irony is that the message/movement is that people need to listen to each other to understand each other
The delivery of the message ends up being - just shut up with your whining and take the message already.....
Message - we’re against bullying, sexism, and sexual assault/harassment
Response - but I’m none of those things?
Message - doesn’t matter - it’s just positive reinforcement that we feel you need to hear
Response - I’m good thanks. I was raised properly. I don’t actively engage in any of those activities
Message - just take the message already. Stop acting like a _________
Proponents - yeah it’s a good message. Just shut up and be enlightened by the message.
Response - did you feel enlightened by the message?
Proponents - I don’t need the reinforcements, but I know there’s others that do
Reponse - like your family, friends?
Proponents - not them either. All the people I know are good. But, there are people out there that need to hear this message.
Response - like who?
Proponents - other people as long as it’s not me or people I know... Just people out there somewhere need this message.
Response - like the actual perpetrators who do those things?
Proponents - no not them either
Response - so who needs to hear this message?
Proponents - just people, that’s all I can tell you.
Response - what about women? Do you think they can benefit from a positive message such as this?
Proponents - nah, just men need this positive reinforcement. Women are already positive
Response - do you understand why some men might not take too kindly to the message?
Proponents - I don’t care what they like or dislike. The mesaage is a good one. They need to (bleep) their trap and take their medicine. All of them (except for me and my family and friends of course. We’re good) |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| Extreme defensiveness to very mild "let's be better" message ==> very bad look. |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | Extreme defensiveness to very mild "let's be better" message ==> very bad look. |
Why can’t we ALL be better? Why only half of the population needs to be better?
Imagine if they further narrowed the mesage to - we white men, we need to be better.
Imagine the outrage.
Anytime you take a universal message - and you deliver it to only one segment of the population - you’re going to get issues.
Last edited by LongBeachPoly on Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:23 am; edited 1 time in total |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: |
Sounds rational
Take the most extreme opposing viewpoint, exaggerate it, then mock it. |
Rational?
Like throwing the razor you bought into the toilet in protest of a positive message?
There's a reason the people who react defensively to the ad are getting mocked . . . a very good reason.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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LongBeachPoly
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Joined: 14 Jul 2012
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: |
Sounds rational
Take the most extreme opposing viewpoint, exaggerate it, then mock it. |
Rational?
Like throwing the razor you bought into the toilet in protest of a positive message?
There's a reason the people who react defensively to the ad are getting mocked . . . a very good reason. |
Every person that reacts defensively is wrong you’re saying?
So you’re saying there’s only one way to react to this message/ad and those who don’t embrace it are reacting in the wrong way?
And this is a part of your rational thinking/discussion? |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: |
Sounds rational
Take the most extreme opposing viewpoint, exaggerate it, then mock it. |
Rational?
Like throwing the razor you bought into the toilet in protest of a positive message?
There's a reason the people who react defensively to the ad are getting mocked . . . a very good reason. |
Every person that reacts defensively is wrong you’re saying?
So you’re saying there’s only one way to react to this message/ad and those who don’t embrace it are reacting in the wrong way?
And this is a part of your rational thinking/discussion? |
I'm saying there is a rational way to react to an ad like this and it's not getting all bent out of shape trying to rationalize the demonization of what is a positive and productive message.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: |
Sounds rational
Take the most extreme opposing viewpoint, exaggerate it, then mock it. |
Rational?
Like throwing the razor you bought into the toilet in protest of a positive message?
There's a reason the people who react defensively to the ad are getting mocked . . . a very good reason. |
Every person that reacts defensively is wrong you’re saying?
So you’re saying there’s only one way to react to this message/ad and those who don’t embrace it are reacting in the wrong way?
And this is a part of your rational thinking/discussion? |
I'm saying there is a rational way to react to an ad like this and it's not getting all bent out of shape trying to rationalize the demonization of what is a positive and productive message. |
So if I told you I don’t like the ad but I never explained why, you’d be ok with that?
It’s the actual explanation that is bothering you?
Would you agree that if the message was only targeting white males, then that would be wrong? No matter how positive the message? |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | Extreme defensiveness to very mild "let's be better" message ==> very bad look. |
The problem is that may have very well been the intention of the message, but it doesn't appear the message is being conveyed.
Just curious. If you saw a video targeted at liberals and let's say the positive message was how to be a better liberal. Positive right? We can all strive to be better after all can't we? And imagine it featured a montage of all of the worst of liberals. Liberals standing shoulder to shoulder virtue signaling in harmony, woke shaming as a cohesive unit, text message screenshots showing the use of -ists and -phobes directed at anyone who disagrees with them. All of that intertwined with imagery of some of the sexual assault allegations against liberals and news coverage from the shooting of the Congressional baseball game. And then the good liberals coming out to stop the bad liberals from all of this.
Would a liberal think that that is sending a positive message?
Would you think the video was directed by a conservative or a liberal?
I can imagine they would think it was very positive and I'd have to guess they'd think the video was directed by a conservative. And when the predictable outrage that would follow with such a video I can imagine a conservative would say hey, why do you have a problem with being better? Extreme defensiveness to very mild "let's be better" ==> very bad look.
All this said -- I think there were some good intentions here but the execution was off the mark. It doesn't seem like their ad agency actually knew how to craft a message to the intended audience at all. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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This seems like a good place to leave this:
Upper East Side Restaurant Nello Bans Single Women From Eating At The Bar
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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Yup, because the actions of the owners of an uptown eatery in New York is representative of all men |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | Extreme defensiveness to very mild "let's be better" message ==> very bad look. |
The problem is that may have very well been the intention of the message, but it doesn't appear the message is being conveyed. |
Actually, it is clear that the message is being conveyed quite well or else it wouldn't have elicited such a visceral negative reaction from so many men.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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