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activeverb
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 Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | Same thing happened during those Kobe led teams. Once Kobe went down the team was like a lottery team. Why? because there have been no systems during Kobe years and now. Lakers were winning on sheer star power back then and now.l |
No team can survive losing the 2 best players on the team and expect to win a championship. Even that Warriors team from 2019 eventually lost in the Finals because their stars went down. |
Yeah, it's not exactly surprising that a team would lose two MVP level players and suck. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | Yeah, it's not exactly surprising that a team would lose two MVP level players and suck. |
It's really that simple.
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danzag
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Location: Brazil
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| Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:23 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | Same thing happened during those Kobe led teams. Once Kobe went down the team was like a lottery team. Why? because there have been no systems during Kobe years and now. Lakers were winning on sheer star power back then and now.l |
No team can survive losing the 2 best players on the team and expect to win a championship. Even that Warriors team from 2019 eventually lost in the Finals because their stars went down. |
Yeah, it's not exactly surprising that a team would lose two MVP level players and suck. |
This.
Is like taking Jordan and Pippen out and asking those players to win 6 championships. |
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ThePageDude
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| Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| danzag wrote: |
<snip>
This.
Is like taking Jordan and Pippen out and asking those players to win 6 championships. |
Also, it's the curse of Lebron-optimized teams - they're great with Lebron but far from it without him. |
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RG73
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| Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:15 am Post subject: |
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| ThePageDude wrote: | | danzag wrote: |
<snip>
This.
Is like taking Jordan and Pippen out and asking those players to win 6 championships. |
Also, it's the curse of Lebron-optimized teams - they're great with Lebron but far from it without him. |
No, it is the curse of building any team around superstars. Let's not make it Lebron-centric. So go back to the Kobe and Shaq years. Kobe out, Shaq can carry the team. Shaq out, Kobe can carry the team. Remove both, the team was garbage. Showtime Lakers, remove Magic, Kareem and Worthy. Team is garbage.
Yes, you can point to say the Duncan era Spurs as being built to withstand major injuries to Duncan and say Ginobili. That is the exception. Just look up north to the Warriors....no Steph, no Klay, they go to the lottery. So again, how is Lebron the unique part of the equation here? Do you think the Clippers would be thriving sans Kawhi and George? Or the Nets with no Irving, Harden and Durant? Just nonsense. |
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danzag
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| Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:53 am Post subject: |
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| ThePageDude wrote: | | danzag wrote: |
<snip>
This.
Is like taking Jordan and Pippen out and asking those players to win 6 championships. |
Also, it's the curse of Lebron-optimized teams - they're great with Lebron but far from it without him. |
And it should be that way.
He's the greatest basketball player on Earth, you better build your team around him. |
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Theseus
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| Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:55 am Post subject: |
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| ThePageDude wrote: | | danzag wrote: |
<snip>
This.
Is like taking Jordan and Pippen out and asking those players to win 6 championships. |
Also, it's the curse of Lebron-optimized teams - they're great with Lebron but far from it without him. |
I imagine that is the case of any team that is optimized for a specific player, they're going to be much worse without that player. |
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ThePageDude
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| Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| RG73 wrote: |
<snip>
No, it is the curse of building any team around superstars. Let's not make it Lebron-centric. So go back to the Kobe and Shaq years. Kobe out, Shaq can carry the team. Shaq out, Kobe can carry the team. Remove both, the team was garbage. Showtime Lakers, remove Magic, Kareem and Worthy. Team is garbage.
Yes, you can point to say the Duncan era Spurs as being built to withstand major injuries to Duncan and say Ginobili. That is the exception. Just look up north to the Warriors....no Steph, no Klay, they go to the lottery. So again, how is Lebron the unique part of the equation here? Do you think the Clippers would be thriving sans Kawhi and George? Or the Nets with no Irving, Harden and Durant? Just nonsense. |
My point was narrow and confined to Lebron only - NOT Lebron+Davis. I stand by my contention - Lebron distorts his *optimized* teams more than your usual superstar.
For the examples you provided:
* Duncan's teams, as you stated, are quite a contrast to Lebron's
* Kawhi's teams win quite well without him, he's an excellent contrast to Lebron and supports my argument. See Toronto, Clips last year.
* Kobe. YES he compares well to Lebron in how much he distorted team makeup for his Gasol years. It can be argued that his Shaq teams were optimized around Shaq. See below for team ORtg with the player "on court":
* Kobe 1999-2001 seasons : Team ORTg +5 (roughly)
* Shaq 1999-2001 season : Team ORTg +9 (roughly)
* Kobe 2009-2010 season : Team ORTg +9 (..)
* Lebron 2020 season: Team ORTg +8 (..)
Other 'superstars' who are less critical to their team's performance: AD, Giannis
I get the feeling that my post is being taken as a slight to Lebron. It's quite the opposite actually. Lebron is OUT-OF-THIS-WORLD great at so many critical basketball skills that it's just easier - even wiser - to build an elite team with complementary 1-dimensional talents than with multi-talents; lesser "superstars" *require* more rounded teammates.
Last edited by ThePageDude on Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| ThePageDude wrote: | | My point was narrow and confined to Lebron only - NOT Lebron+Davis. I stand by my contention - Lebron distorts his *optimized* teams more than your usual superstar. |
That’s probably fair, given that Lebron dominates both scoring and ball handling. When Lebron is out, it’s hard for the offense to adapt. It’s informative that the effect was less in Miami, where there was a legitimate Hall of Famer in Wade to run the offense. We now know that Irving wasn’t at that level, and Schroder certainly isn’t.
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Clark Kent
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| Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2004-jan-11-sp-plaschke11-story.html
| Quote: | In games featuring O’Neal but not Bryant, the Lakers are 36-8, an .818 winning percentage.
In games featuring Bryant but not O’Neal, the Lakers are 53-45, a .541 winning percentage.
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LeBron is like Shaq. AD is like Kobe.
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CamReddish
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| Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Clark Kent wrote: | https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2004-jan-11-sp-plaschke11-story.html
| Quote: | In games featuring O’Neal but not Bryant, the Lakers are 36-8, an .818 winning percentage.
In games featuring Bryant but not O’Neal, the Lakers are 53-45, a .541 winning percentage.
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LeBron is like Shaq. AD is like Kobe. |
No
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Clark Kent wrote: | https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2004-jan-11-sp-plaschke11-story.html
| Quote: | In games featuring O’Neal but not Bryant, the Lakers are 36-8, an .818 winning percentage.
In games featuring Bryant but not O’Neal, the Lakers are 53-45, a .541 winning percentage.
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Just when I was finally getting over my PTSD from the Kobe-Shaq-Phil feud, you just had to go and dig up this one.
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DrDent
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | Yeah, it's not exactly surprising that a team would lose two MVP level players and suck. |
It's really that simple. |
Yep. 40% of your starting lineup gone right there (its really 60% with Gasol out). Or 45-50 points a night (not including Gasol). That just is not a plug n play for replacements to match. Then there's what they provide on defense and other intangibles. |
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DrDent
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:29 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Clark Kent wrote: | https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2004-jan-11-sp-plaschke11-story.html
| Quote: | In games featuring O’Neal but not Bryant, the Lakers are 36-8, an .818 winning percentage.
In games featuring Bryant but not O’Neal, the Lakers are 53-45, a .541 winning percentage.
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Just when I was finally getting over my PTSD from the Kobe-Shaq-Phil feud, you just had to go and dig up this one. |
I remember thinking back then Shaq "automatically" gave 50 wins in a season. Never really had any stats to back that up, but, there's something there. |
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Snipes
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Posts: 6164
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:03 am Post subject: |
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| Clark Kent wrote: | https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2004-jan-11-sp-plaschke11-story.html
| Quote: | In games featuring O’Neal but not Bryant, the Lakers are 36-8, an .818 winning percentage.
In games featuring Bryant but not O’Neal, the Lakers are 53-45, a .541 winning percentage.
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LeBron is like Shaq. AD is like Kobe. |
Lovely analogy. |
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TDRock
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Location: LA to the Bay
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:41 am Post subject: |
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This isn’t great
Per Shams / Stadium (video at link - may even be live)
"LeBron James from the time he got hurt last weekend has an expected 4-to-6 week recovery period."
Our #NBA Insider @ShamsCharania has the latest on LeBron's ankle injury.
https://twitter.com/stadium/status/1375168263504674822?s=21 |
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leking006
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| TDRock wrote: | This isn’t great
Per Shams / Stadium (video at link - may even be live)
"LeBron James from the time he got hurt last weekend has an expected 4-to-6 week recovery period."
Our #NBA Insider @ShamsCharania has the latest on LeBron's ankle injury.
https://twitter.com/stadium/status/1375168263504674822?s=21 |
As expected, but we know Lebron, he will comeback earlier, depending on the team situation. |
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lakersboy
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Posts: 8548
Location: Left coast
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| TDRock wrote: | This isn’t great
Per Shams / Stadium (video at link - may even be live)
"LeBron James from the time he got hurt last weekend has an expected 4-to-6 week recovery period."
Our #NBA Insider @ShamsCharania has the latest on LeBron's ankle injury.
https://twitter.com/stadium/status/1375168263504674822?s=21 |
If my fuzzy memory is correct, Cooper missed around 6 weeks with the same injury.
Everyone talking about his impact is forgetting the team is getting blown out because they have no center playing. I'm not a Gasol fan, but short guys won't keep this team afloat.
They need tall guys who play like tall guys against other tall guys. |
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Outspoken
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Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 8484
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Clark Kent wrote: | https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2004-jan-11-sp-plaschke11-story.html
| Quote: | In games featuring O’Neal but not Bryant, the Lakers are 36-8, an .818 winning percentage.
In games featuring Bryant but not O’Neal, the Lakers are 53-45, a .541 winning percentage.
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LeBron is like Shaq. AD is like Kobe. |
this is dumb as hell. I don't know if you are being serious. |
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ZeroDark30_
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Joined: 27 Feb 2019
Posts: 8656
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| leking006 wrote: | | TDRock wrote: | This isn’t great
Per Shams / Stadium (video at link - may even be live)
"LeBron James from the time he got hurt last weekend has an expected 4-to-6 week recovery period."
Our #NBA Insider @ShamsCharania has the latest on LeBron's ankle injury.
https://twitter.com/stadium/status/1375168263504674822?s=21 |
As expected, but we know Lebron, he will comeback earlier, depending on the team situation. |
He’s old. He shouldn’t have to come back early from injury. He did that last time and we still missed the playoffs. |
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MookieBetts50
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Joined: 22 Jul 2020
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| AD MUST COME BACK NEXT WEEK, EARLY APRIL OR NO REPEAT. |
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mad55557777
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Posts: 23693
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| MookieBetts50 wrote: | | AD MUST COME BACK NEXT WEEK, EARLY APRIL OR NO REPEAT. |
no he DOES NOT. you don't risk him with Achilles related injuries. |
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Leif
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| Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| mad55557777 wrote: | | MookieBetts50 wrote: | | AD MUST COME BACK NEXT WEEK, EARLY APRIL OR NO REPEAT. |
no he DOES NOT. you don't risk him with Achilles related injuries. |
Exactly.
They could potentially lose AD for all of next season. You don't rush back from this. |
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LakerSD
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governator
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Posts: 25318
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| Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| 2nd AD this dude convinced to come, LeGM done it again |
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