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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
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 Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:04 am Post subject: |
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Too much made of the starters.
I mean, last year. 10 games in. Starting lineup looked set at McGee, AD, Green, Bradley, and Bron. By mid-playoffs, it was Dwight, AD, Green, KCP and Bron. By NBA Finals, it was AD, Bron, Green, KCP and Caruso.
I think the key starters that will continue are AD, Bron and KCP. They are championship starters that started throughout the playoffs.
The other 2 spots are going to be situational, IMO.
Right now I would guess we are leaning towards
Gasol-AD-Bron-KCP-Schroder. That is probably our most potent slowed down halfcourt style offense lineup, and that is how we tend to try and start games off. The starting games time is more of a feel out process where the game is about setting the tone. I think with Gasol his physicality, and with our elite size of a Gasol-AD-Bron front court, then you add the speed of a KCP-Schroder backcourt, that is probably the way to go for now.
I do hope we sub out Gasol around the 7 min mark, and bring him back in for 3-4 min run when Bron-AD rest. The 2nd unit should have some sort of PT with Gasol running the offense, as he has a lot of that Bron like mindset that continues on when Bron sits, something we used to get with Rondo. Schroder is not that kind of player, he is more of a scorer and attacker. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:14 am Post subject: |
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Wolf, problem is KCP is now sliding down to what Green was last year. Green defended the bigger guards all year long and in the Bubble. KCP is super quick but has a hard time against bigger guards. I could see Wes starting but KCP playing more minutes.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Wolf, problem is KCP is now sliding down to what Green was last year. Green defended the bigger guards all year long and in the Bubble. KCP is super quick but has a hard time against bigger guards. I could see Wes starting but KCP playing more minutes. |
I have no issue with that, but I would guess that KCP takes the points, or 2s and Bron takes the tougher assignment of the wings. Whether it is the 2 or 3. Most 2s in the NBA come off screens and are used as off the ball shooting options, and I think KCP is up to this task. IF Dennis starts, it means Bron is back to being a 3 more than he is a 1. He may still run the offense, but he is going to defend and match up more often with 1s.
I still think our best defensive lineup would be Wesley and KCP starting. Or Caruso and KCP. But I am not sure Vogel plays that hand this early. I think Vogel is a very very good coach, he will await to unleash his real plans until the playoffs. Pretty much every series he changed his lineups and match ups. He did the same in Indiana. He is one of the few coaches who even in the playoffs relies on 9 guys a night. |
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textbook
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Joined: 27 Mar 2015
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| Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:28 am Post subject: |
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I think this will def be the starting line up and subs:
Shroder
Mathews
Lebron
Davis
Gasol
Subs:
KCP/THT
Caruso/THT
Kuzma/THT
Morris
Montrez
Shroder was promised starting gig. Mathews I think was also mentioned as starter. Hid defense on bigger guards better than KCP. This is the only one however that could go to KCP. Gasol was brought in to start next to Davis. THT will get minutes but it's only been two preseason games. What happens when he gets 6 points next game. Also, I'm sure with Covid and Lebron resting, he will get a lot of minutes. |
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Great One
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Location: Girl I'm Back in Spanish Town
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| Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | Gasol
AD
Lebron
Wes
KCP |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Wolf, problem is KCP is now sliding down to what Green was last year. Green defended the bigger guards all year long and in the Bubble. KCP is super quick but has a hard time against bigger guards. I could see Wes starting but KCP playing more minutes. |
I have no issue with that, but I would guess that KCP takes the points, or 2s and Bron takes the tougher assignment of the wings. Whether it is the 2 or 3. Most 2s in the NBA come off screens and are used as off the ball shooting options, and I think KCP is up to this task. IF Dennis starts, it means Bron is back to being a 3 more than he is a 1. He may still run the offense, but he is going to defend and match up more often with 1s.
I still think our best defensive lineup would be Wesley and KCP starting. Or Caruso and KCP. But I am not sure Vogel plays that hand this early. I think Vogel is a very very good coach, he will await to unleash his real plans until the playoffs. Pretty much every series he changed his lineups and match ups. He did the same in Indiana. He is one of the few coaches who even in the playoffs relies on 9 guys a night. |
If Dennis starts, he can only guard 1s. That means KCP has to guard the PG13/DRoz/Beal, bigger guards that usually give him a problem. Not so much for Wes. But I think KCP ends up with equal or slightly more minutes than Wes even if he doesn't start the game.
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AFireInside619
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Joined: 11 Dec 2015
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| Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:41 am Post subject: |
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THT
THT
THT
THT
THT
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RashardA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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Bron
KCP
Kuz
AD
Gasol
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hype
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| Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| textbook wrote: | I think this will def be the starting line up and subs:
Shroder
Mathews
Lebron
Davis
Gasol
Subs:
KCP/THT
Caruso/THT
Kuzma/THT
Morris
Montrez
Shroder was promised starting gig. Mathews I think was also mentioned as starter. Hid defense on bigger guards better than KCP. This is the only one however that could go to KCP. Gasol was brought in to start next to Davis. THT will get minutes but it's only been two preseason games. What happens when he gets 6 points next game. Also, I'm sure with Covid and Lebron resting, he will get a lot of minutes. |
Schroder wasn't promised a starting gig? He wants it but i'd be absolutely shocked if the Lakers "promised" anyone a starting role since that's one of Vogel's biggest strengths is that he's not afraid to change things up at any point in the regular season or Playoff's.
He could very well end up starting but it's not a given at all imo. I personally feel the ideal starting lineup to start the season is KCP and Wes in the backcourt with Dennis possibly getting the most minutes out of the 3 or at least neck to neck with KCP. |
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Annihilator
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Joined: 02 Jul 2001
Posts: 4035
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| Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Megaton wrote: | What I selfishly want it to be by the end of the season:
Talen-Horton Tucker/Dennis Schroder
KCP/Alex Caruso
Lebron James/Wes Matthews
Anthony Davis/Kyle Kuzma/Markieff Morris
Marc Gasol/Montrez Harrell/Markieff Morris |
I would to see Vogel try a variation of the above that has THT switched with AC:
Alex Caruso/Dennis Schroder
KCP/Talen-Horton Tucker
Lebron James/Wes Matthews
Anthony Davis/Kyle Kuzma/Markieff Morris
Marc Gasol/Montrez Harrell/Markieff Morris
Last season, AC's game was very complementary to LeBron's and both were better when they were on the floor together. The starting five would do just fine--it is the starting lineup of Game 6 against the Heat with Gasol replacing Danny Green. The second unit would dominate the other team's bench. Against many teams, the second unit would be able to play for more than half the game (giving the starters some rest).
Of course, no team in the NBA does "line changes" in which the entire starting team is completely replaced by the bench at one time.
Last edited by Annihilator on Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Megaton
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Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 25761
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| Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Annihilator wrote: | | Megaton wrote: | What I selfishly want it to be by the end of the season:
Talen-Horton Tucker/Dennis Schroder
KCP/Alex Caruso
Lebron James/Wes Matthews
Anthony Davis/Kyle Kuzma/Markieff Morris
Marc Gasol/Montrez Harrell/Markieff Morris |
I would to see Vogel try a variation of the above that has THT switched with AC:
Alex Caruso/Dennis Schroder
KCP/Talen-Horton Tucker
Lebron James/Wes Matthews
Anthony Davis/Kyle Kuzma/Markieff Morris
Marc Gasol/Montrez Harrell/Markieff Morris
Last season, AC's game was very complementary to LeBron's and both were better when they were on the floor together. The starting five would do just fine. The second unit would dominate the other team's bench. Against many teams, the second unit would be able to play for more than half the game (giving the starters some rest).
Of course, no team in the NBA does "line changes" in which the entire starting team is completely replaced by the bench at one time. |
If AC improved his 3 point shooting, I would be daring and even go with Caruso and THT starting together. The bench would be killer too.
Talen Horton-Tucker/Dennis Schroder
Alex Caruso/KCP/Wes Matthews
Lebron James/Wes Matthews/Kyle Kuzma
Anthony Davis/Kyle Kuzma/Markieff Morris
Marc Gasol/Montrez Harrell/Markieff Morris
Not gonna lie, I would be giddy like a teenage school girl at a BTS concert if this lineup happened. I doubt it, but the potential synergy and defensive potential would be massive. The bench would also be amplified even more.
Again, probably unrealistic and for selfish reasons, but I want it to happen anyway. 
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- Draft Zach Edey (or Kel'el Ware)
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slavavov
Star Player
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 8478
Location: Santa Monica
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| Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker_Jocker wrote: | SCHRO (24).................................goat (18) .........tht (6)....................cook
WMJ (24).....................................kcp (24)
LBJ (32) .....................................kuz (16).........................................dudz
AD (32) ......................................kieff (10)..........kuz (6) ..................(kostas? cacok?)
GASOL (24) misses games every yr..........trez (24).........................(need a backup good for 5-6 min in case of emergency) |
Schroder needs a lot more than 24 minutes a game. He probably needs around 30 minutes a game. He needs significant minutes with LeBron to reduce his workload and keep him fresh for the playoffs.
I don't get the need to rein in Schroder and not let him play in attack mode.
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Kobe_Is_King13
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Posts: 555
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| Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:57 am Post subject: |
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You guys are missing it, I hope Vogel doesn't miss it too.
We need Gasol on the second unit for multiple reasons.
- First off he add the height and shot contesting that nobody on the second unit has if Montrez comes off the bench.
- Second he adds the passing and playmaking that few have on the second unit. This will help the 2nd unit's consistency much more than it will the starters.
Gasol will still play minutes with the starters, but his contributions are best used as a rim deterrent and secondary playmaker for the second unit.
The best way to maximize the team is to play Montrez at the starting center spot. He give the starters a dynamic PnR option and high level finisher. AD and Bron can help cover his lack of height more effectively than anyone on our bench.
Starters:
Schoeder
KCP
Bron
AD
Trez
Bench:
THT
Caruso/Matthews
Kuz
Morris
Gasol |
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blackmamba08
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Posts: 2619
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:30 am Post subject: |
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I don't care who starts. I care who is finishing games.
For me last 6 min of the game should be:
Schroeder
KCP
Bron
Trez
AD
We can even start Kuzma if he can contribute in beginning by playing with Bron and AD major minutes. The point is he shouldn't finish games by any means. |
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audioaxes
Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 12573
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| Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| Kjj10697X wrote: | Start of Year
Gasol
AD
Bron
Kuz
KCP or Shroder
End of Year
AD
Bron
Kuz
KCP
Shroder
If we decide to move on from Kuz and traded him
Gasol
AD
Bron
KCP
Shroder |
doubt Kuzma becomes a starter. He will be just fighting for bench minutes from Morris.
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:33 am Post subject: |
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| audioaxes wrote: | | Kjj10697X wrote: | Start of Year
Gasol
AD
Bron
Kuz
KCP or Shroder
End of Year
AD
Bron
Kuz
KCP
Shroder
If we decide to move on from Kuz and traded him
Gasol
AD
Bron
KCP
Shroder |
doubt Kuzma becomes a starter. He will be just fighting for bench minutes from Morris. |
And no way AD is starting full time at center. How many times does he have to say that? 
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kikanga
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Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: |
And no way AD is starting full time at center. How many times does he have to say that? |
People just really want to see Kuz start.
I've been saying it for the longest time. It's not gonna happen. He's a forward playing on a team with LBJ and AD.
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:15 am Post subject: |
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I think you need a bigger guard next to KCP for most matchups. I think the starting line-up is likely going to be KCP/Matthews/LBJ/AD/Gasol.
I'd rather have Schroder off the bench as a spark. I like the idea of our bench playing a completely different style than our starters. I wouldn't even mind a Luke-type hockey shift rotation once in a while.
Imagine being a team playing defense against KCP/Matthews/LBJ/AD/Gasol one minute, and, after a time out, having to suddenly adjust to something like Schroder/Caruso/THT/Kuzma/Trez. Two completely different teams and playing styles, but both extremely potent offensively and defensively.
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epic_
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Joined: 23 Jan 2020
Posts: 11310
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| Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:41 am Post subject: |
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That Alex, KCP, Lebron, Morris, AD lineup in the finals was sexy.
Doubt we see it this year at all 
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Zhengi
Star Player
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Posts: 6445
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| Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:12 am Post subject: |
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This would be my guess.
Schoeder
KCP
Bron
AD
Gasol
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yinoma2001
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Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:13 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
And no way AD is starting full time at center. How many times does he have to say that? |
People just really want to see Kuz start.
I've been saying it for the longest time. It's not gonna happen. He's a forward playing on a team with LBJ and AD. |
Yeah. It's so obvious but hey...
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Annihilator
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Posts: 4035
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| Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| Kobe_Is_King13 wrote: | You guys are missing it, I hope Vogel doesn't miss it too.
We need Gasol on the second unit for multiple reasons.
- First off he add the height and shot contesting that nobody on the second unit has if Montrez comes off the bench.
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NBA defensive statistics seem to suggest that in the 2019-20 season, Gasol was not significantly better at contesting shots than Harrell. In fact, they seem to suggest the opposite. Harrell was top 15 in the league among players who played at least 36 games (roughly half of the season) in the difference between the percentage of shots that were made by the player he was guarding and the percentage of shots that the league estimates should have been made at the given distance. Harrell was -4.9%. Gasol was -0.4%. While Gasol is taller he isn't necessarily better at contesting shots at this point in his career. ESPN's DRPM though does seem to indicate that Gasol is a better team defender than Harrell.
For comparison, below are the top six differences in the league last year:
Eric Gordon, -10.7
Giannis, -9.7
AD, -8.4
Zubac, -7.6
Gobert, -7.2
DeAndre Jordan, -6.4
Links:
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defense-dash-overall/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612746
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defense-dash-overall/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612761
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defense-dash-overall/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=PCT_PLUSMINUS&dir=-1
Last edited by Annihilator on Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Mike@LG
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Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:47 am Post subject: |
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Schroder
KCP
LeBron
AD
Gasol
| Quote: | | ESPN's DRPM though does seem to indicate that Gasol is a better team defender than Harrell. |
I think the tape will also show that Gasol is a better defender than Harrell as well. Unfortunately, things like DRPM and other advanced defensive metrics aren't exact, even when it comes to Synergy, which is hardly consistent when it comes to defensive metrics.
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jb2
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Posts: 10980
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| Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:56 am Post subject: |
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Gasol, Trez
AD, Kuzma, Keef
LeBron, Wes
KCP, THT
Schröder, AC
I personally think Wes should start and KCP come off the bench but this way gives us Wes' size the the backup 3. |
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Annihilator
Star Player
Joined: 02 Jul 2001
Posts: 4035
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| Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | Schroder
KCP
LeBron
AD
Gasol
| Quote: | | ESPN's DRPM though does seem to indicate that Gasol is a better team defender than Harrell. |
I think the tape will also show that Gasol is a better defender than Harrell as well. Unfortunately, things like DRPM and other advanced defensive metrics aren't exact, even when it comes to Synergy, which is hardly consistent when it comes to defensive metrics. |
No metric of this nature is ever exact; they literally cannot be. These metrics take high dimensional data and project it onto a straight line. Distortions have to be introduced. I think that everyone would also agree that watching tape isn't perfect by itself either. |
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