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Aeneas Hunter
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:45 am Post subject:

ribeye wrote:

I have not heard such a narrative "that the electoral college prevents the tyranny of urban populations." If anything, the exact opposite is occurring.

Here you go:

Quote:

Were the Electoral College be abolished, the only relevant states, nay, counties, whose voices would be heard at all would be those with dense populations. The concerns of our fellow citizens would be an afterthought behind the demands of the Acela corridor, California coast, Chicago, Seattle, and a handful of other urban locales. States without those population hubs need not apply, the concerns of their citizens need not be considered.

https://www.conservativereview.com/commentary/2016/11/enemies-of-the-republic-liberals-want-to-abolish-the-electoral-college-because-they-lost

Aeneas Hunter
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:52 am Post subject:

ribeye wrote:

I think it is WAY premature to say that Trump ended how Republicans used to be. Everyone he is selecting is a good ol' boy or worse, solid Republican.

I expect Trump to get coopted by the GOP mainstream, because he doesn't actually have an independent agenda. We shall see.

ribeye
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:53 am Post subject:

The Brain wrote:

ribeye wrote:

The Brain wrote:

DaMuleRules wrote:

kikanga wrote:

Tough to predict what will be the right type of candidate for the Dems in 2020.

It's pretty obvious even after two weeks of President-Elect Trump that the longer Trump is in office, the easier it will be. By 2020, there will be a lot of "anyone but Trump" voters on both ends of the spectrum, and Dems will be all in whomever the DNC fields.

I think so many of you still continue to allow yourselves to be in denial. So many people keep thinking and writing the same rhetoric. We heard all this before Trump even ran. And continued to hear it all the way through November 8th. They are just words with no substance. Just wishful thinking.

If Trump wipes out ISIS before the 1st term is done, he will be around 4 years after that. No President fulfills all his promises. None. And even if they did, it wouldn't matter. The public and media is in the business of tearing down everything and everyone no matter what if they are opposite of their particular party. Now Trump is a little unique in that he managed to end the Democrats AND the Republicans for what they use to be. Now, the D and the R are just symbols, they do not have any substance either.

If Trump wants to shock the world, halting the pipeline situation in ND would put a gigantic monkey wrench into all the rhetoric. It wouldn't solve anything politically because politics can be twisted and manipulated. But Trump doing what Obama wouldn't do would really be fun to watch to see how that story could be twisted.

I think it is WAY premature to say that Trump ended how Republicans used to be. Everyone he is selecting is a good ol' boy or worse, solid Republican.

And I'd be shocked if Trump wipes out ISIS. They, or an offshoot, as well as any number of terrorist organizations, will be around long after Trump.

ISIS is not an offshoot organization. They are a mobile nation. There will always be terrorists no matter what, but the root of ISIS needs to be destroyed. And that root is destroying their most important resource. Oil.

ISIS is an offshoot organization. From Wiki:

Quote:

In October 2004, al-Zarqawi pledged allegiance (bay'ah) to al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden and renamed the group Tanẓīm Qāʻidat al-Jihād fī Bilād al-Rāfidayn (lit. "The Organisation of Jihad's Base in Mesopotamia"), commonly known as al-Qaeda in Iraq or AQI. Under al-Zarqawi, the group participated in the Iraqi insurgency following the March 2003 invasion of Iraq by Western forces. In January 2006, the group joined other Sunni insurgent groups to form the short-lived Mujahideen Shura Council.

After al-Zarqawi was killed in June 2006, the Mujahideen Shura Council merged in October 2006 with several more insurgent factions to establish ad-Dawlah al-ʻIrāq al-Islāmiyah, also known as the Islamic State of Iraq (ISI).[182]

Also, though they are or can be mobile, they are an idea, a concept, and not a nation. Ideas cannot be destroyed with bombs.
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governator
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:54 am Post subject:

The Brain wrote:

ribeye wrote:

The Brain wrote:

DaMuleRules wrote:

kikanga wrote:

Tough to predict what will be the right type of candidate for the Dems in 2020.

I hope ISIS is defeated, Trump or not but I don't want US to send our troops over there. Trump needs to pressure middle eastern countries to send their troops, especially the rich ones

DuncanIdaho
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:55 am Post subject:

Quote:

Trump won’t pursue case against Clinton, Conway says

President-elect Donald Trump has decided that he won’t seek criminal investigations related to former rival Hillary Clinton’s private email server or her family foundation, his campaign manager said Tuesday

Trump’s apparent decision, conveyed by Kellyanne Conway in an interview on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe,’’ is a change from his campaign rhetoric, in which he issued incendiary calls for a special prosecutor to reopen the FBI’s closed investigation of Clinton’s use of a private server while serving as secretary of state and had also urged investigations of allegations of corruption at the Clinton Foundation. He nicknamed the Democratic nominee “Crooked Hillary” and encouraged chants of “Lock her up!” at his rallies.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-escalates-war-with-news-media-cancels-meeting-with-new-york-times/2016/11/22/3b02f9ce-b0b1-11e6-840f-e3ebab6bcdd3_story.html

Reminiscent of Bush 2 quietly dropping any further investigation into Bill Clinton once his administration took over. Besides, Obama would just pardon her anyway (like Nixon) if Trump showed any intention to pursue the hardline stance of his campaign to "lock her up".

Last edited by DuncanIdaho on Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:59 am; edited 1 time in total

kikanga
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:58 am Post subject:

adkindo wrote:

kikanga wrote:

I think alot of people are underestimating just how long 4 years is. DNC thought they needed a white moderate from the South to run for President after their loss in '04. Needless to say, that doesn't describe Barack well.

Technology and media will be different 4 years from now.
A terror attack, financial crisis, Middle Eastern conflict with US boots on the ground, trade war, major cyber attack are all within the realm of possibility. An increase in protests and hate crimes is inevitable.
Tough to predict what will be the right type of candidate for the Dems in 2020.

I would expect the CA Lieutenant Governor to look seriously @ 2020....the Dems have been grooming him for over a decade, right?

If I had to pick someone right now. Gavin Newsom would be my guy. Charismatic, progressive. And I think he would relate to white and minority working class voters. Not just on the coast but in the midwest as well.

He does have some skeletons in his closet (sexual infidelity). But this election has shown me just how little that matters. Nobody has more skeletons than our President-elect.
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Last edited by kikanga on Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:59 am; edited 2 times in total

governator
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:59 am Post subject:

DuncanIdaho wrote:

Quote:

No Clinton prosecution
No repealing Obamacare, just augmenting
No reversing marriage equality
Drain the swamp by selecting washingtonians
Stopping Clinton foundation like conflict of interest by having his daughter sits in governmental meeting
Building the wall by not building it

This guy just con his own base

DuncanIdaho
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:01 am Post subject:

governator wrote:

DuncanIdaho wrote:

Quote:

Starting with his speech on election night I could immediately see the shift between Campaign Trump and President Trump. I mean, this guy was hanging out with the Clintons and inviting them to his wedding a few years ago. I didn't really think he changed overnight to some fascist dictator.

Omar Little
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:03 am Post subject:

I wonder if the folks who think the benefit of the electoral college is that it gives a stronger voice to an otherwise small minority (rural voters) would Grant this same status to other minorities? _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel

governator
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:04 am Post subject:

DuncanIdaho wrote:

governator wrote:

DuncanIdaho wrote:

Quote:

it's the 'subtle' anti-minority rhetoric that bothers a lot of people. Trump might not be racist himself personally but he does legitimizes those behavior among his supporters

governator
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:05 am Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:

I wonder if the folks who think the benefit of the electoral college is that it gives a stronger voice to an otherwise small minority (rural voters) would Grant this same status to other minorities?

ouch

ribeye
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:08 am Post subject:

governator wrote:

DuncanIdaho wrote:

Quote:

Yet the base will justify any and all changes of heart. I read elsewhere when someone criticized him for possibly appointing Wall Street execs and/or long time lobbyists, that a supporter simply responded by saying that he needs knowledgeable staff.

Yet, when Obama did it, it was crony capitalism or corruption.
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Omar Little
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:08 am Post subject:

governator wrote:

DuncanIdaho wrote:

governator wrote:

DuncanIdaho wrote:

Quote:

it's the 'subtle' anti-minority rhetoric that bothers a lot of people. Trump might not be racist himself personally but he does legitimizes those behavior among his supporters

He is also clearly sending signals by who he is surrounding himself with. And he's always been a narcissist. Perhaps he didn't believe his run was more than a good publicity stunt. But he won, and he has unimaginable power now.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel

kikanga
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:09 am Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:

kikanga wrote:

Tough to predict what will be the right type of candidate for the Dems in 2020.

Sorry. I don't believe the GOP has a soul. Be it the establishment or the base. The false equivalency conservatives adopted between Hillary and Donald this past election, still makes me queasy.
We elected a serial, self-admitted, sexual assaulter. I think I'm gonna put that in my signature. People just push it to the back of their mind because we've been overloaded with Trump controversies.

Back to my point. The right will unite behind Trump. And any perceived failures will be blamed on the left. Yes I realize the hypocrisy of that, since there is no way Trump will face the unprecedented obstructionism Barack faced with the back to back to back (6 years, 3 terms) of the least effective Congresses in modern history (in terms of laws passed).
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The Brain
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:19 am Post subject:

kikanga wrote:

DaMuleRules wrote:

kikanga wrote:

Tough to predict what will be the right type of candidate for the Dems in 2020.

Can't blame it on the left. The entire government is red. Or will be next year. The only thing left is the majority of the media. And even those clowns pander to the easily manipulated. That is their job. That's how the media makes money, regardless of political affiliation.

Least effective congress in modern history? When has congress ever been effective? That is why we are here now. Congress' whole objective is to say anything and do nothing. Just like Obama said when he was describing Hillary Clinton in 2008.
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adkindo
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:00 am Post subject:

numero-ocho wrote:

adkindo wrote:

kikanga wrote:

I would expect the CA Lieutenant Governor to look seriously @ 2020....the Dems have been grooming him for over a decade, right?

Gavin Newsom? He can and likely will be the next Governor of our state but I can't envision a candidate who backed such strong gun control measures here appealing to voters on a national level. They aren't going to win back votes in the South and Rust Belt with a candidate like that and they may even lose votes in relaxed gun-control states like Nevada where Hilary won.

Did you happen to notice how many of those anti-Hilary ads in the final weeks of the campaign were sponsored by the NRA? The ads had nothing to do with her stances on gun control either.

Newsom doesn't fit the mold of the Democratic Presidential candidate. Most of them are highly educated and went to prestigious colleges.

I can tell you that all the way on the East Coast, his name have been mentioned in the pipeline since he was mayor of SF....I can't say I am up to speed on all his policies, but I have noticed while he may be strong on environmental issues, he always hedges his comments in an attempt to not be boxed in at a later date. The guy looks like a President on a TV mini-series....so he has that going for him.

DaMuleRules
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:04 am Post subject:

The Brain wrote:

DaMuleRules wrote:

kikanga wrote:

Tough to predict what will be the right type of candidate for the Dems in 2020.

I think so many of you still continue to allow yourselves to be in denial.

Nope. We on the Left are completely awake now. We've seen the results and we've seen the message and now know where the efforts failed.

The denial comes from those Trump supporters who voted for him because he was an "outsider" not beholding to politics as usual who refuse to see that the opposite is true.

Quote:

So many people keep thinking and writing the same rhetoric. We heard all this before Trump even ran. And continued to hear it all the way through November 8th. They are just words with no substance. Just wishful thinking.

Things have totally changed in the mindsets and realities of those on the Left. We see the writing on the wall and we know that we need to react accordingly and not allow complacency and arrogance lead us forward.

Quote:

If Trump wipes out ISIS before the 1st term is done, he will be around 4 years after that.

Good luck with that. He can't even deal with peaceful comments from citizens of his own country without having a teenage style temper tantrum. A TV show gets him riled up. He lashes out a the media for not sucking up to him. He has no clue how to handle ISIS.

Quote:

No President fulfills all his promises.

Absolutely true. Unfortunately for Trump, he has riled his followers into believing his hype, and when that hype fails to come to fruition, there will be a backlash. It won't be like Obama supporters who were disappointed that Obama didn't accomplish all he said he would. There will be angry Trump supporters because that is the type of energy he bred.

Quote:

None. And even if they did, it wouldn't matter. The public and media is in the business of tearing down everything and everyone no matter what if they are opposite of their particular party. Now Trump is a little unique in that he managed to end the Democrats AND the Republicans for what they use to be. Now, the D and the R are just symbols, they do not have any substance either.

If Trump wants to shock the world, halting the pipeline situation in ND would put a gigantic monkey wrench into all the rhetoric. It wouldn't solve anything politically because politics can be twisted and manipulated. But Trump doing what Obama wouldn't do would really be fun to watch to see how that story could be twisted.

Everything that is occurring indicates that anything resembling that is not going to happen.
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DaMuleRules
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:07 am Post subject:

DuncanIdaho wrote:

governator wrote:

DuncanIdaho wrote:

Quote:

Have you seen his appointees?
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames

Jason Isbell

Man, do those lyrics resonate right now

adkindo
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:08 am Post subject:

kikanga wrote:

unprecedented obstructionism Barack faced

Sorry, this is simply a New York Times talking point. Bush faced major obstructionism once the Dems got control of one of the chambers of Congress. Unlike Obama, Bush made efforts to work with some senior Democrats....Obama did not even make the effort to work with his own party in Congress.

adkindo
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:09 am Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:

DuncanIdaho wrote:

governator wrote:

DuncanIdaho wrote:

Quote:

Have you seen his appointees?

all 3 of them?

DuncanIdaho
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:14 am Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:

DuncanIdaho wrote:

governator wrote:

DuncanIdaho wrote:

Quote:

Have you seen his appointees?

Yeah. They're your standard right-wing types. Honestly, none of them surprise me and it's looking like he's eyeing Romney for SOS, which is as centrist Republican as you can get really.

vanexelent
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:26 am Post subject:

The Brain wrote:

The only thing left is the majority of the media. And even those clowns pander to the easily manipulated. That is their job. That's how the media makes money, regardless of political affiliation.

Totally. Those on the right who are regular Fox News consumers are easily the most intelligent folks in the country. Not easily duped at all.

DaMuleRules
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:34 am Post subject:

DuncanIdaho wrote:

DaMuleRules wrote:

Have you seen his appointees?

Yeah. They're your standard right-wing types. Honestly, none of them surprise me and it's looking like he's eyeing Romney for SOS, which is as centrist Republican as you can get really.

Steve Bannon is hardly a "standard right-wing" type, unless of course one believes that the standard right-wing type is an overt racist/misogynist.

As for Romney, I wouldn't that far, but he certainly would be much more acceptable than the types of choices we have seen.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames

Jason Isbell

Man, do those lyrics resonate right now

The Brain
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:42 am Post subject:

vanexelent wrote:

The Brain wrote:

The only thing left is the majority of the media. And even those clowns pander to the easily manipulated. That is their job. That's how the media makes money, regardless of political affiliation.

Totally. Those on the right who are regular Fox News consumers are easily the most intelligent folks in the country. Not easily duped at all.

I haven't seen one post from Fox on my feeds the last 2 weeks. Almost all are from Washington Farce, Muffington Post and all the NBC affiliates. Also, Rupert Murdock is a Jew and owns Fox. If Trump and his people are anti-Semitic, why would he promote white power sympathizers(as so many have proclaimed) who don't want Jews going to school with their kids? That just doesn't hold water my friends.
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lakerjoshua
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:48 am Post subject:

The Brain wrote:

vanexelent wrote:

The Brain wrote:

The only thing left is the majority of the media. And even those clowns pander to the easily manipulated. That is their job. That's how the media makes money, regardless of political affiliation.

Totally. Those on the right who are regular Fox News consumers are easily the most intelligent folks in the country. Not easily duped at all.

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