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Aeneas Hunter
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 Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| PlantedTanks wrote: | | However, how else do you get the pulse of a franchise base other than reading their forum boards? I read thru other NBA team forums to get their take on their players and also for info such as their draft threads. Yes I watch YT vids and read media articles but they don't really give the picture of the fan base. |
I hear you. Just the same, the message board warriors aren't necessarily representative of anyone other than themselves. This is not limited to LG or to sports message boards. You may perceive yourself as fighting the board, but my perception is that your take on Schroder falls within the general mainstream. Some people have a higher opinion of Schroder than you do, but you aren't on an island.
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Halflife
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| LakerSD wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | regardless of who we sign the media narrative today is exactly what we, 76ers want. |
Exactly. Put the pressure on the Nets/Clippers.
The Sixers don’t exactly handle pressure well either. |
the only reason I added sixers is because
A) I dont think doc is a great coach but he is a great motivator, this will help that.
B) i dont care who nets sign. if Embiid is healthy he will punk them
C) people sleeping on ben's D. Biggest mistake Rox have ever made if he was an option. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | He was a recent market comp.
. . . .
KCP/Kuz were paid FMV. |
If you actually think that Kennard is a "recent market comp" and that Casey P. and Kuzma were paid fair market value, I'm not going to waste any more time discussing this issue with you. |
That's fine with me. But a definition of FMV value is:
| Quote: | a price at which buyers and sellers with a reasonable knowledge of pertinent facts and not acting under any compulsion are willing to do business
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That's what happened here. You have your own subjective value. But Kennard was a recent extension, and KCP/Kuz received literally a FMV deal with the Lakers.
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | But Kennard was a recent extension, and KCP/Kuz received literally a FMV deal with the Lakers. |
You are smart enough to figure out why this is wrong. I don't have time to play message board games with you.
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MJST
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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Random question and I doubt the contracts match up.
But would you trade KCP, Kuzma and THT and a Pick, for LaVine?
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kikanga
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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Would Indiana be interested in a Kuzma for Justin Holiday trade? I'd love it for us. Would have to include McKinnie to make the $ work.
It's not even like I hate Kuzma. I actually love how he's been playing since his extension. Just think it would be a better fit. Justin Holiday has the length on defense and the 3pt shooting which makes him very useful against the Durants, Kawhis, P. Georges of the world.
I'd even throw a pick into the trade if Indiana wants more.
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Halflife
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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kuz is a good player. expectations are what is killing him. His salary is manageable. Hes big, has excellent games mixed with trash. hes been pretty durable unless i am forgetting something. my only issue with him is his FT%. If he was better there he would be more aggressive IMHO
He can be slotted into multiple positions and never cries |
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SGV-Laker fan
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| It’s very depressing whenever we’re in discussion about acquiring an all star in recent years, conversation would always ended at we do not have assets. And yet clippers and other contending teams would came out of nowhere and swoop in and got the deal done with the similar quality of packages we would’ve offered. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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I'd rather hold onto Kuz as he can fill in for 3 positions and with AD's injury concerns, he can fill in at that spot too.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | I'd rather hold onto Kuz as he can fill in for 3 positions and with AD's injury concerns, he can fill in at that spot too. |
I mean the fact that it's so close between Kuz and Justin Holiday makes the trade more realistic IMO. So many fans propose trades where their team gives up trash for a piece for gold.
Have you watched Justin Holiday play? I know east coast games can be tough to catch if you live in the Pacific time zone.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I'd rather hold onto Kuz as he can fill in for 3 positions and with AD's injury concerns, he can fill in at that spot too. |
I mean the fact that it's so close between Kuz and Justin Holiday makes the trade more realistic IMO. So many fans propose trades where their team gives up trash for a piece for gold.
Have you watched Justin Holiday play? I know east coast games can be tough to catch if you live in the Pacific time zone. |
I know that Justin is a really solid player. But I have depth concerns with AD. Who would start in his stead (and be our first SF/PF off the bench)?
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Halflife
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | It’s very depressing whenever we’re in discussion about acquiring an all star in recent years, conversation would always ended at we do not have assets. And yet clippers and other contending teams would came out of nowhere and swoop in and got the deal done with the similar quality of packages we would’ve offered. |
A) The player has to see opportunity if he is a free agent.
B) clippers had a ton to unload and they did.
C) ibaka and kawai are boys
d) batum is donezo other than the occasional flurry.
we landed 2 6th men of the year candidates both whom have made us better. Gasol was signed for post season. Wes was a solid pick up who we thought would have been a bit better but there is still time. Kieff for cheap. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I'd rather hold onto Kuz as he can fill in for 3 positions and with AD's injury concerns, he can fill in at that spot too. |
I mean the fact that it's so close between Kuz and Justin Holiday makes the trade more realistic IMO. So many fans propose trades where their team gives up trash for a piece for gold.
Have you watched Justin Holiday play? I know east coast games can be tough to catch if you live in the Pacific time zone. |
I know that Justin is a really solid player. But I have depth concerns with AD. Who would start in his stead (and be our first SF/PF off the bench)? |
Justin Holiday. He's not the individual scorer Kuz is. He's never had as wide of a leash as Kuz has now. But I think he's someone who would make Schro and Trez better than they even are now. I see the entry passes he throws to Sabonis. And I wish Trez had that. I see the way he spaces the floor on drive and kicks for Brogdon and I wish Schro had that. He curls around screens and hits threes like KCP. But he has the length that none of our role players have now. He can use his length against guys like Durant, Kawhi, and PG13. His defensive potential is a great fit for a Vogel coached team.
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Last edited by kikanga on Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:40 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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King Randle
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| I'd like to see us ship KCP, Kief and Cook to Orlando for Bamba and Ross. I know it's not happening but a lot of the requested trades here aren't happening. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I'd rather hold onto Kuz as he can fill in for 3 positions and with AD's injury concerns, he can fill in at that spot too. |
I mean the fact that it's so close between Kuz and Justin Holiday makes the trade more realistic IMO. So many fans propose trades where their team gives up trash for a piece for gold.
Have you watched Justin Holiday play? I know east coast games can be tough to catch if you live in the Pacific time zone. |
I know that Justin is a really solid player. But I have depth concerns with AD. Who would start in his stead (and be our first SF/PF off the bench)? |
Justin Holiday. He's not the individual scorer Kuz is. He's never had as wide of a leash as Kuz has now. But I think he's someone who would make Schro and Trez better than they even are now. I see the entry passes he throws to Sabonis. And I wish Trez had that. I see the way he spaces the floor on drive and kicks for Brogdon and I wish Schro had that. And his biggest + is his length he can use against guys like Durant, Kawhi, and PG13. His defensive potential is a great fit for a Vogel coached team. |
Isn't he like 6'5, 180 pounds? He can play PF? Kuz's versatility is helpful for this team. I think Holiday could help at SG/SF, but with AD's injuries I think Kuz admirably fills in at starting PF. Otherwise, you're going with who? Kieff?
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | Random question and I doubt the contracts match up.
But would you trade KCP, Kuzma and THT and a Pick, for LaVine? |
No. It isn’t just because I value Lavine less than many of you. It’s because we would have so little depth left after the trade that we would be at high risk. We would be giving up three passable or better defensive players for one of the weaker defenders in the league. The salaries don’t come close to matching anyway, but we would need to reconstruct the roster at mid-season by fishing for buyouts.
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LakerSD
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | regardless of who we sign the media narrative today is exactly what we, 76ers want. |
Exactly. Put the pressure on the Nets/Clippers.
The Sixers don’t exactly handle pressure well either. |
the only reason I added sixers is because
A) I dont think doc is a great coach but he is a great motivator, this will help that.
B) i dont care who nets sign. if Embiid is healthy he will punk them
C) people sleeping on ben's D. Biggest mistake Rox have ever made if he was an option. |
For sure...wasn’t trying to take away from your point. Nets/Clippers have players who have historically had issues performing under adversity and media narrative. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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He has a 7'0'' wingspan. Shoots 40%+ from 3. Has a mixture of length and athleticism nobody on our team currently has.
Sure Kuzma is a better PF. J. Holiday is a SF through and through. The vast majority of his minutes are there. And he's doing great in the capacity.
I'm just saying between Schro, Trez, and Vogel. He's the better fit by a significant margin.
PF is pretty much a bigger SF in the modern NBA. We run a 4 out 1 in offense like everybody else.
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Last edited by kikanga on Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ksig
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Isn't he like 6'5, 180 pounds? He can play PF? Kuz's versatility is helpful for this team. I think Holiday could help at SG/SF, but with AD's injuries I think Kuz admirably fills in at starting PF. Otherwise, you're going with who? Kieff? |
I agree, we already have 5 smaller guards on our team who fit that mold. Trading one of our only tall wing players is a mistake just for that reason. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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Having a defender with length against Durant, Kawhi, and PG13 who can shoot 40% from 3 is much more important than having a tradition PF IMO.
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Ksig
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | Having a defender with length against Durant, Kawhi, and PG13 who can shoot 40% from 3 is much more important than having a tradition PF. |
Kuz is a defender with length. He has been playing elite defense.
[Faigen] Per InStat, Kyle Kuzma has ranked in the 99th percentile (!!!) as an isolation defender since Frank Vogel joined the Lakers, and in the 90th percentiles in several other defensive metrics. Per InStat, Kyle Kuzma has ranked in the 99th percentile as an isolation defender since Frank Vogel joined the Lakers, and in the 90th percentiles in several other defensive metrics.
I'll be honest I dont watch Indiana that much but I'd be shocked if he was a better defender than Kuzma. A better 3 pt shooter yes, but not a better defender. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| King Randle wrote: | | I'd like to see us ship KCP, Kief and Cook to Orlando for Bamba and Ross. I know it's not happening but a lot of the requested trades here aren't happening. |
Bamba isn't worth that much and Ross isn't as good a defender as KCP.
Ross as Orlando's current second option offensively is putting up 14-15 PPG on 42% from the Field and 36% from three.
That's not much different than what KCP would do if in the same situation as a team's second option. Watching what he did for Detroit and what he did for us in a similar situation the stats pretty much lineup with what Ross is doing right now.
Difference is, we have KCP already locked in for a few years, and he already has chemistry with the team, and already gives us what Ross would in the same position and situation but with better defense.
Bamba at this point isn't worth much either way. Giving up anyone not named Cook would be selling too high.
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Last edited by MJST on Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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PASTOR RILEY
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | King Randle wrote: | | I'd like to see us ship KCP, Kief and Cook to Orlando for Bamba and Ross. I know it's not happening but a lot of the requested trades here aren't happening. |
Bamba isn't worth that much and Ross isn't as good a defender as KCP. |
lately kcp defense decisions has been mind boggling |
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MJST
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| PASTOR RILEY wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | King Randle wrote: | | I'd like to see us ship KCP, Kief and Cook to Orlando for Bamba and Ross. I know it's not happening but a lot of the requested trades here aren't happening. |
Bamba isn't worth that much and Ross isn't as good a defender as KCP. |
lately kcp defense decisions has been mind boggling |
with KCP it's been mostly 'the last few games' for Terrance Ross it's been mostly 'the last few years'.
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Last edited by MJST on Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Ksig wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | Having a defender with length against Durant, Kawhi, and PG13 who can shoot 40% from 3 is much more important than having a tradition PF. |
Kuz is a defender with length. He has been playing elite defense.
[Faigen] Per InStat, Kyle Kuzma has ranked in the 99th percentile (!!!) as an isolation defender since Frank Vogel joined the Lakers, and in the 90th percentiles in several other defensive metrics. Per InStat, Kyle Kuzma has ranked in the 99th percentile as an isolation defender since Frank Vogel joined the Lakers, and in the 90th percentiles in several other defensive metrics.
I'll be honest I dont watch Indiana that much but I'd be shocked if he was a better defender than Kuzma. A better 3 pt shooter yes, but not a better defender. |
If you have the time. Check out an Indiana game sometime.
I'm not someone saying Kuz is trash. He isn't. He's been great.
Just talking about fit. And the fact that we all can recognize it would be painful to lose him is a testament that it's a fair trade in my opinion. It's not something unrealistic like Caruso for Mike Conley or something like that.
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