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999
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Joined: 19 Oct 2006
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Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:51 pm Post subject: Microsoft Windows Vista....

Now that XP is gonna take a (bleep) is anyone else planning to fork out 400 bucks and buy the new operating system..... or are you guys gonna buy a new system with it pre installed?

Exick
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Posts: 15880

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:01 pm Post subject:

You don't need to spend $400 to get Vista (well, unless part of that money is the money you have to spend upgrading your PC in order to run it). I won't be getting Vista anytime soon. _________________ Game recognize game, Granddad. - Riley Freeman, The Boondocks

ocho
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Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:03 pm Post subject:

i liked it better a few years ago when it was called Mac OSX. _________________ 14-5-3-12

uberzev
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Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:06 pm Post subject:

I wouldn't bother getting Vista until you get a new computer. _________________ Lakers Gonna Lake

ocho
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Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:09 pm Post subject:

uberzev wrote:

I wouldn't bother getting Vista until you get a new computer.

won't be getting a new computer any time soon zev...you know that.

vista fans should get a kick out of this vid:

Vista Looks Familiar....
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999
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Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:26 pm Post subject:

ocho wrote:

i liked it better a few years ago when it was called Mac OSX.

LMAO

Socks
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Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:28 pm Post subject:

Some thoughts: Why to upgrade: http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/20070126/tc_pcworld/128656 The Caveat Emptor articles…why it may have risks... http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,128133-c,vistalonghorn/article.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,128355-c,vistalonghorn/article.html

uberzev
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Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:39 pm Post subject:

LALakers999 wrote:

ocho wrote:

i liked it better a few years ago when it was called Mac OSX.

LMAO

http://tinyurl.com/2m7h8o
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999
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Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 20267

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:44 pm Post subject:

uberzev wrote:

LALakers999 wrote:

ocho wrote:

i liked it better a few years ago when it was called Mac OSX.

LMAO

http://tinyurl.com/2m7h8o

lol...... looks like your not a fan of the apple brand

uberzev
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Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:47 pm Post subject:

LALakers999 wrote:

uberzev wrote:

LALakers999 wrote:

ocho wrote:

i liked it better a few years ago when it was called Mac OSX.

LMAO

http://tinyurl.com/2m7h8o

lol...... looks like your not a fan of the apple brand

No, just not a fan of Ocho's rhetoric.
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999
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Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:57 pm Post subject:

^^^ i c...ya the guy can be negative at times... but he says some funny comments

ocho
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Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:45 pm Post subject:

uberzev wrote:

LALakers999 wrote:

uberzev wrote:

LALakers999 wrote:

ocho wrote:

i liked it better a few years ago when it was called Mac OSX.

LMAO

http://tinyurl.com/2m7h8o

lol...... looks like your not a fan of the apple brand

No, just not a fan of Ocho's rhetoric.

i love you zev.
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14-5-3-12

uberzev
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Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:47 pm Post subject:

ocho wrote:

uberzev wrote:

LALakers999 wrote:

uberzev wrote:

LALakers999 wrote:

ocho wrote:

i liked it better a few years ago when it was called Mac OSX.

LMAO

http://tinyurl.com/2m7h8o

lol...... looks like your not a fan of the apple brand

No, just not a fan of Ocho's rhetoric.

i love you zev.

_________________
Lakers Gonna Lake

Flight#24
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Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 7979

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:18 pm Post subject:

uberzev wrote:

I wouldn't bother getting Vista until you get a new computer.

Yup. Why spend the $400 when a good, solid computer is about a grand (which is equipped with Windows Vista).

999
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Joined: 19 Oct 2006
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Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:47 pm Post subject:

uberzev wrote:

ocho wrote:

uberzev wrote:

LALakers999 wrote:

uberzev wrote:

LALakers999 wrote:

ocho wrote:

i liked it better a few years ago when it was called Mac OSX.

LMAO

http://tinyurl.com/2m7h8o

lol...... looks like your not a fan of the apple brand

No, just not a fan of Ocho's rhetoric.

i love you zev.

now im starting to feel left out

cant we all

TACH
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Location: Chillin on the Delaware.. from the Jersey Side

Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:50 am Post subject:

ocho wrote:

uberzev wrote:

I wouldn't bother getting Vista until you get a new computer.

won't be getting a new computer any time soon zev...you know that.

vista fans should get a kick out of this vid:

Vista Looks Familiar....

So true.... And it is no coincident that Vista looks like OSX:

Quote:

There's a court case going on in Iowa, where the Mac-loving e-mail appeared last month. It's now available among plaintiff's documents, but readers need go no further than the next paragraph to read the entire e-mail.

Allchin, who is co-president of Microsoft's Platforms & Services Division, sent the e-mail to Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates and CEO Steve Ballmer on January 7, 2004:

"This is a rant. I'm sorry.

"I am not sure how the company lost sight of what matters to our customers (both business and home) the most, but in my view we lost our way. I think our teams lost sight of what bug-free means, what resilience means, what full scenarios mean, what security means, what performance means, how important current applications are, and really understanding what the most important problems are customers face are. I see lots of random features and some great vision, but that doesn't translate into great products.

"I would buy a Mac today if I was not working at Microsoft. If you run the equivalent of VPC [Virtual PC] on a Mac you get access to basically all Windows application software (although not the hardware). Apple did not lose their way. You must watch this new video below. I know this doesn't show anything for businesses, but my point is about the philosophy that Apple uses. They think scenario. They think simple. They think fast. I know there is nothing hugely deep in this.

"http: //www.apple.com/ilife/video/ilifeO432C.html [Note: Link is now dead]

"I must tell you everything in my soul tells me that we should do what I called plan (b) yesterday. We need a simple fast storage system. LH [Longhorn] is a pig and I don't see any solution to this problem. If we are to rise to the challenge of Linux and Apple, we need to start taking the lessons of 'scenario, simple, fast' to heart. Jim"

For more context, Allchin sent the e-mail to Ballmer and Gates the day following Jobs' 2004 Macworld keynote. Apple's CEO announced iPod mini and an updated iLife suite, with the new application GarageBand. Jobs articulated a very cohesive digital entertainment strategy with successful and beneficial integration--something Microsoft has been struggling to achieve.

The iLife `04 video Allchin referred to is no longer linked to on Apple's Web site, but you can find what I believe is the right video here. In watching the video, I had the "Wow" experience Microsoft promises with Windows Vista.

A few months after this e-mail, Microsoft reset the Windows Longhorn (now Vista) development clock to zero. The company restarted from the Windows Server code base. I assume this was the Plan B that Allchin referred to.

I also assume that Allchin called Longhorn "a pig," because of WinFS, the new file system Microsoft would later pull from the operating system.

In context, the "buy a Mac" statement doesn't mean what Jobs and others insinuated. It means something more.

angrypuppy
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Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:43 am Post subject:

Ahh... why buy Vista when you can buy a new computer and have it bundled for free? What made Microsoft a monopoly wasn't code, it was marketing.

Socks
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Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:55 am Post subject:

^^^ It wasn't marketing, it was Bill Gates being the only guy at the time who understood that it was all about owning the interface - the operating system. That single realization and then doing everything to protect it led to everything for Microsoft.

angrypuppy
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Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:36 am Post subject:

Socks wrote:

^^^ It wasn't marketing, it was Bill Gates being the only guy at the time who understood that it was all about owning the interface - the operating system. That single realization and then doing everything to protect it led to everything for Microsoft.

That's called marketing.

TACH
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Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:01 pm Post subject:

angrypuppy wrote:

Socks wrote:

That's called marketing.

Give Bill more credit than that.... it's a lot more than marketing.

You guys should watch "Triumph of the Nerds"... in this documentary it explains how Bill and Microsoft got it's start,... also talks about Apple, Steve Jobs, and Xerox (believe it or not, but most of what we see today, in part, was because of Xerox)...

Socks
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Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:53 pm Post subject:

TACH wrote:

angrypuppy wrote:

Socks wrote:

That's called marketing.

Yeah, Steve stole from Xerox and Microsoft stole from Apple. Classic. Pirates of the Silicon Valley was also pretty interesting when it wasn't being totally cheesy.

And I wouldn't call it marketing because it was so much more. It was a great idea/realization plus software development, plus business development, plus some thievery and copying. They made the OS the center of the their entire strategy, of which only one component was marketing.

angrypuppy
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Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:12 pm Post subject:

Socks wrote:

TACH wrote:

angrypuppy wrote:

Socks wrote:

That's called marketing.

*sigh*

No, it's called marketing. Trust me, I spent time in the industry as a systems designer, and date back when the machines were called microprocessors, rather than PCs. I'm also an Ivy League MBA.

Bill Gates started a shop that sold a BASIC compiler. He mother sat on a charity board with some senior IBMers. She convinced them to give her son an audience, as they were looking for an operating system that would function on the Intel microprocessor. Gates didn't even own an OS, so he bought the rights to one. He didn't write the code, and he didn't own it outright. "DOS" was still owned by the company that sold him the rights, and was thus allowed to sell it as well.

But Bill out-marketed them, making him the leader in revenues, profits and market share.

Bill Gates 1, Competitors 0 (in marketing)

Next, IBM realized how stupid they were (after the fact). They were stroking themselves in the Harvard Business Review (and elsewhere) as true managerial geniuses, in that they released their IBM PC in one year. Hooray! But they didn't own the rights to the microprocessor CPU (Intel did, oops), nor did they own rights to the OS (MS did, oops). IBM still owned lions-share of the PC market, so they thought they had the market power to drive the standards.

They didn't... Bill did. And he alone knew it. He broke off his "fake" joint development of DOS' successor (OS/2) and simply stole the XEROX PARC interface from Apple. He placed the interface (aka GUI) on top of DOS and called it Windows. And allowed OS/2 to die of natural causes.

Let's see... Bill Gates 2, Competitors 0 (in marketing).

Next, according to Silicon Valley folklore (might be true, might not be), the CEO of Apple (Scully) threatens to sue, under the pretense that he stole Apple's copyrighted GUI (stolen from XEROX PARC). Gates tells Scully that if he does that, the next release of MS Excel and MS Word for Apple might somehow be delayed for.. months.. years.. who knows. As a result, no one would buy MACs, and Apple share price would tank... and Scully fired by the Board of Directors. That is understanding market power.

Let's see... Bill Gates 3, Competitors 0 (in marketing).

Next, in a series of brilliant price bundling moves, MS crushes competition in the productivity software market (MS Office).

Let's see... Bill Gates 4, Competitors 0 (in marketing).

Next, Bill in a similar move strikes marketing agreements with PC makers where they pay the same amount of royalties to Microsoft, whether Windows is installed, or Linux, or SCO Unix.

Let's see... Bill Gates 5, Competitors 0 (in marketing).

He understands marketing and monopoly power.

TACH
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Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:24 pm Post subject:

angrypuppy wrote:

Socks wrote:

TACH wrote:

angrypuppy wrote:

Socks wrote:

That's called marketing.

I agree with everything you said, however, it sounds like Bill made some 'sound' business decisions versus running a marketing campaign...

Also Apple did sue Microsoft (and HP) over the GUI... but from what I remember, the statue of limitations had ran out.

Socks
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Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:14 pm Post subject:

TACH wrote:

angrypuppy wrote:

Socks wrote:

TACH wrote:

angrypuppy wrote:

Socks wrote:

That's called marketing.

Exactly. I'm not arguing the history, what you describe is how it happened (by many published accounts).

I think where we're disagreeing is the term "marketing". I don't disagree that Microsoft didn't start off as some coding powerhouse that invented something completely new. But it doesn't just come down to coding vs. marketing. BillG had the business acumen to recognize that it all started with the OS. He then made some business development moves to acquire what he needed to position himself correctly to take advantage of this recognition. Bill didn't necessarily out-market IBM, he outstrategized them.

What people don't give BillG credit for is the fact that he recognized the fact that owning the OS put him in the position to dictate standards, whereas everyone else thought it was about owning the box. That's understanding strategy. It's not like he did a ton of market research on this, he just inherently understood it. Microsoft's marketing strategies have not traditionally been very good from the day they started. But it didn't matter. To this day Microsoft gets outmarketed - and I'll say that as a guy who was a Microsoft product marketer for 5 years. Owning the OS was the basis for everything and it's amazing that crappy marketing and crappy development haven't been enough to impede that. Combine that with the early biz dev work MS did and that's why they are where they are today.

I think of traditional marketing as things like pricing and licensing, positioning and messaging, field marketing campaigns, packaging, competitive analysis, AR/PR, etc. None of which Microsoft has been an industry leader in - quite contrary they've sucked at a lot of this throughout history. I think of what Microsoft did to succeed as having business acumen and vision as well as shrewd negotiating and business development (as well as a healthy dose of underhandedness).

Kinda sounds like we're just arguing semantics at this point, so I'll get off the soapbox.

Bergamotichek
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Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:47 pm Post subject:

I just bought a new laptop. Comes with a free upgrade to Vista. Haven't made up my mind yet.

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