| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Laker7
Star Player
Joined: 24 Feb 2003
Posts: 6401
Location: Past left field
|
 Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:53 am Post subject: ESPN Real Plus Minus Rankings - Details |
|
|
Link
Not a lot of surprises. Some players not positioned correctly IMO but it is what it is.
You have an offensive rating, a defensive rating and real plus minus (total) which is offensive rating minus defensive rating.
Keep in mind there are 30 teams with 5 starters each so being within the top 150 overall means you are in the top half of the league. 30 or less at your position means you would likely start for another team.
Lakers have 5 players is the top 150 overall and 7 players with position rankings of 30 or less.
Starters
Lebron #1 overall #1 SF at 7.36
AD #23 overall #3 PF at 3.22
KCP #31 overall #8 SG at 2.84
Schroeder #118 overall #24 PG at 0.51
Gasol #303 overall #39 C at -2.07 Offense is -2.85 defense is 0.78
Bench
Harrell at #102 overall #10 C at 0.76
Kuzma at #156 overall #19 SF at -0.14 Offense is a -0.58 defense is a 0.44
Morris at #189 overall #25 PF at -0.60
THT at #211 overall #51 SG at -1.00
Caruso at #251 overall #66 SG at -1.49
Matthews at #292 overall #73 SG at -1.96
Notable others:
Paul George at #6 overall #2 SG at 5.06
Kevin Durant at #10 overall #1 PF at 4.49
Kawhi Leonard at #13 overall #2 SF at 4.02
Giannis Antetokounmpo at #12 overall #2 PF at 4.29
Thoughts?
_________________
Darvin Ham is an idiot! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
Just remember that a stat like RPM is dependent on the volume of data, and this is the first time they have posted the stats this year. There are a number of oddities that will probably resolve themselves as more data comes in. For example, Lonzo Ball ranks 18th in the league among all players, and he has an ORPM of +3.38. You have to assume that this will likely change as more data rolls in. Lonzo has not been an offensive dynamo this year.
But when I went through the whole list last night, it generally looked pretty solid. It's interesting that it rates Giannis as a negative defender this year. This may be another "small sample size" anomaly, or it may explain why the Bucks are underachieving this year.
_________________
Internet Argument Resolved |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BILBJH
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jul 2020
Posts: 5125
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
RPM is a real random stat.
I remember last year Brooklyn's entire lineup had super high RPM and yet they barely made the playoffs. Take it with a huge grain of salt. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
| BILBJH wrote: | RPM is a real random stat.
I remember last year Brooklyn's entire lineup had super high RPM and yet they barely made the playoffs. Take it with a huge grain of salt. |
What?
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/year/2020
Irving is the only Net who made the first page, and he played only 20 games. There is some scrub who played in 18 games for Brooklyn at 51, then Jarrett Allen at 59 and Spencer Dinwiddie at 79.
_________________
Internet Argument Resolved |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BILBJH
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jul 2020
Posts: 5125
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | BILBJH wrote: | RPM is a real random stat.
I remember last year Brooklyn's entire lineup had super high RPM and yet they barely made the playoffs. Take it with a huge grain of salt. |
What?
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/year/2020
Irving is the only Net who made the first page, and he played only 20 games. There is some scrub who played in 18 games for Brooklyn at 51, then Jarrett Allen at 59 and Spencer Dinwiddie at 79. |
Yeah, I stand corrected.
Maybe it was midseason where I looked up those stats... but I distinctly remember three or four them being in the top ten and having a mediocre record. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LakerDYnasty72
Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 4572
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thoughts:
1.Seems to me that it's to be expected that KL & PG would be ranked so highly. They're great players, and they're on a mission.
2.Which brings me to AD. He's a great player but not ranked as high as expected. It's a dispositional thing. He's got the fire, but it doesn't burn as intensely as the guy they have No.1 on that list. His play has been sporadic this season to say the least.
3. KCP- a quiet game recently but he's ballin' and the numbers reflect that.
4. Same w/Kuz. OP stated that if the player is in the 150 or below range, it reflects that he's in the top half. Kuz is not there yet but it looks likes he's moving in the right direction.
5. By that standard Trez's number looks solid too.
Thanks for posting OP! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| BILBJH wrote: | Yeah, I stand corrected.
Maybe it was midseason where I looked up those stats... but I distinctly remember three or four them being in the top ten and having a mediocre record. |
Sure, that may well be right. These sorts of stats are dependent on the sample size, much more so than ordinary stats. There are always a few outliers, but you get more of them in the earlier parts of the season.
_________________
Internet Argument Resolved |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| LakerDYnasty72 wrote: | | 2.Which brings me to AD. He's a great player but not ranked as high as expected. It's a dispositional thing. He's got the fire, but it doesn't burn as intensely as the guy they have No.1 on that list. His play has been sporadic this season to say the least. |
For some reason, RPM has never rated Davis as a great defender. This has been true year after year. Other advanced metrics rate him highly, but RPM does not. RPM actually rates Davis higher this year than it did last year, when it gave him less defensive value than Carmelo Anthony. I guess every computer model is going to produce some outliers, and Davis is one of them for RPM.
_________________
Internet Argument Resolved |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Annihilator
Star Player
Joined: 02 Jul 2001
Posts: 4035
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | Just remember that a stat like RPM is dependent on the volume of data, and this is the first time they have posted the stats this year. There are a number of oddities that will probably resolve themselves as more data comes in. For example, Lonzo Ball ranks 18th in the league among all players, and he has an ORPM of +3.38. You have to assume that this will likely change as more data rolls in. Lonzo has not been an offensive dynamo this year.
But when I went through the whole list last night, it generally looked pretty solid. It's interesting that it rates Giannis as a negative defender this year. This may be another "small sample size" anomaly, or it may explain why the Bucks are underachieving this year. |
Very nice. More data resolves the problems with "colinearities" (i.e., is the team doing better because of the actual player or because of who the player is on the court with?). Of course, no metric of this nature is going to be perfect.
Some interesting scores for various "discussions" in the threads:
Harrell-- ORPM:-0.63 DRPM: 1.04 RPM: 0.41
Gasol-- ORPM: -2.82 DRPM: 0.63 RPM: -2.19
McGee--ORMP: -2.45 DRPM:0.41 RPM: -2.04
Howard--ORMP: -2.80 DRPM: -0.70 RPM: -3.50
All four of their ORPM's are negative. The Lakers have the two with the best DRPMs. The differences in scores between McGee and Gasol are minimal. Howard is the only one of the four with a negative DRPM.
It will be interesting to see what these scores look like in a month.
Just one more score:
M. Morris: ORPM: -1.77 DRPM: 1.31 RPM: -0.47
Last edited by Annihilator on Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Laker7
Star Player
Joined: 24 Feb 2003
Posts: 6401
Location: Past left field
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| LakerDYnasty72 wrote: | Thoughts:
1.Seems to me that it's to be expected that KL & PG would be ranked so highly. They're great players, and they're on a mission.
2.Which brings me to AD. He's a great player but not ranked as high as expected. It's a dispositional thing. He's got the fire, but it doesn't burn as intensely as the guy they have No.1 on that list. His play has been sporadic this season to say the least.
3. KCP- a quiet game recently but he's ballin' and the numbers reflect that.
4. Same w/Kuz. OP stated that if the player is in the 150 or below range, it reflects that he's in the top half. Kuz is not there yet but it looks likes he's moving in the right direction.
5. By that standard Trez's number looks solid too.
Thanks for posting OP! |
You are welcome.
One thing about AD. He recently stated he is playing like (bleep). The stats seem to bear this out. Outside of the top 10 for him is bad. I think teams are looking to limit him first rather than LBJ. If LBJ beats you so what, you got beat by one of the all time greats. You limit AD and hope the rest have an off night.
_________________
Darvin Ham is an idiot! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Baron Von Humongous
Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Lonzo da RPM gawd
_________________
Under New Management |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
