Can the Lakers compete with BKN in the Finals?
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Runway8
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:37 pm    Post subject:

LoPro4u2c wrote:
Lakers don’t need to worry about them. The Nets DO need to worry about Bucks, Celtics, Sixers, and Heat, tho.


I can read it already, the same trolls will say, "Mickey Mouse ring, Lakers didn't have to play the Nets."
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:41 pm    Post subject:

audioaxes wrote:
I think some people are forgetting when Harden is in peak form, teams are forced to blitz him on the perimeter. You cant do that if they have Durant, Joe Harris, and Irving ready to catch his outlet pass.

I thought Harden looked pretty flustered when the Lakers blitzed him in the playoffs and the two most recent regular season games.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:52 pm    Post subject:

audioaxes wrote:
I think some people are forgetting when Harden is in peak form, teams are forced to blitz him on the perimeter. You cant do that if they have Durant, Joe Harris, and Irving ready to catch his outlet pass.


Harris is shooting 52% on 6 threes/game. ha

Another thing people aren't mentioning is how much effort Lebron will need to exert on defense. However, KD is now the guy they'll have to throw at Tatum, Giannis, Lebron, etc. His defensive responsibility just went way up.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:53 pm    Post subject:

PenG_ wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
I think some people are forgetting when Harden is in peak form, teams are forced to blitz him on the perimeter. You cant do that if they have Durant, Joe Harris, and Irving ready to catch his outlet pass.


Harris is shooting 52% on 6 threes/game. ha

Another thing people aren't mentioning is how much effort Lebron will need to exert on defense. However, KD is now the guy they'll have to throw at Tatum, Giannis, Lebron, etc. His defensive responsibility just went way up.


AD would be the primary defender against KD
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:55 pm    Post subject:

chantruong wrote:
PenG_ wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
I think some people are forgetting when Harden is in peak form, teams are forced to blitz him on the perimeter. You cant do that if they have Durant, Joe Harris, and Irving ready to catch his outlet pass.


Harris is shooting 52% on 6 threes/game. ha

Another thing people aren't mentioning is how much effort Lebron will need to exert on defense. However, KD is now the guy they'll have to throw at Tatum, Giannis, Lebron, etc. His defensive responsibility just went way up.


AD would be the primary defender against KD


For sure, but will Lebron be able to play help defense as often as he usually does?
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audioaxes
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:56 pm    Post subject:

PenG_ wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
I think some people are forgetting when Harden is in peak form, teams are forced to blitz him on the perimeter. You cant do that if they have Durant, Joe Harris, and Irving ready to catch his outlet pass.


Harris is shooting 52% on 6 threes/game. ha

Another thing people aren't mentioning is how much effort Lebron will need to exert on defense. However, KD is now the guy they'll have to throw at Tatum, Giannis, Lebron, etc. His defensive responsibility just went way up.

I think they put AD on Durant, Lebron on Joe Harris. Wes, Caruso, KCP will be our weapons on Kyrie and Harden
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:58 pm    Post subject:

Ah, the pre-emptive "are you worried after the Lakers lost game 1 of the playoffs round x?" thread. The Nets should be worried about what they are going to do after they fail in the playoffs and Harden leaves them. Lakers are smashing the league at half speed, and they will do the same to the Nets. If they go 100%, they will sweep the Nets in the Finals (if the Nets can make it there).
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:14 pm    Post subject:

Seems easier to me now that they traded away depth for Harden.

Allen was a good player off the bench for them. Getting rid of him helps us.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:38 pm    Post subject:

BadGuy wrote:
Ah, the pre-emptive "are you worried after the Lakers lost game 1 of the playoffs round x?" thread. The Nets should be worried about what they are going to do after they fail in the playoffs and Harden leaves them. Lakers are smashing the league at half speed, and they will do the same to the Nets. If they go 100%, they will sweep the Nets in the Finals (if the Nets can make it there).


Sweep? Have you seen Durant play this season?
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:45 pm    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
BadGuy wrote:
Ah, the pre-emptive "are you worried after the Lakers lost game 1 of the playoffs round x?" thread. The Nets should be worried about what they are going to do after they fail in the playoffs and Harden leaves them. Lakers are smashing the league at half speed, and they will do the same to the Nets. If they go 100%, they will sweep the Nets in the Finals (if the Nets can make it there).


Sweep? Have you seen Durant play this season?


Avg 31 after a Achilles tear

Question is long term health and if he can be the defensive leader for that team. Regardless, the Achilles tear is starting to become the ACL tear. A setback but manageable.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:22 pm    Post subject:

So long as the Lakers avoid injury and COVID, they will definitely compete with - and most likely beat - BKN in the Finals. 4 reasons:

(1) Backcourt depth - Lakers have their best defensive backcourt in 20 years. KCP and Caruso are championship-tested, and have experience with Harden. Matthews is a defensive dog. Shroo is shorter, but a scrapper at the point of attack.

Plus, Shroo doesn't drive and dish and shoot at Kyrie's level, but does so well enough to make sure Kyrie can't take that half of the court off.

(2) Frontcourt versatility - AD, LeBron, Kuz, Gasol, and even Kieff can all score in the post or from 3. Trez can score in the post or face up, and AD< LBJ, and Kuz can all score off the dribble. That's a lot of ways to put BKN's bigs in foul trouble. And given that they're only proven "bigs" are an aging DJ, Kevin Durant, and Jeff Green, and we have a HUGE advantage there.

(3) Chemistry - Yeah, we added new rotation guys in Shroo, Gasol, Trez, and Matthews, but these are almost plug-and-play guys with their versatility and attitude. Gasol fits in anywhere with his passing and top-flight court sense. Trez is all hustle and motor and positive energy. Matthews is a D-first pro, and Shroo is fitting in at a healthy, reasonable pace. They've all drunk the Kool-aid and are making mixed drinks and cocktails with it, with Vogel tending bar in his own team-first, hoops-dork, defense-first way .

Meanwhile, Kyrie is a space cadet, Harden is coming in after griping his way out of Houston, and KD is mercurial by nature. Add in a rookie head coach with no coaching experience, and we're MILES ahead.

(4) Experience - We won a title in a bubble, and LEARNED from it. We added players to bolster our energy/ drive, while keeping the morale guys (Dudz and Cook) to help us keep an even keel. Brooklyn didn't do what we did - they upset the apple cart mid-run.

So long as we can stay healthy (nothing is promised nowadays), we're GOLDEN.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:35 pm    Post subject:

It's the other way around. We have the tools to limit their offense, but do they have the tools to limit the Lakers offense? Who will defend in that roster? Kyrie and Harden are mediocre defenders. While KD ha above average defense, he is playing as a big man, no way he can stop AD, Harrell, Gasol, and Bron and the point. And definitely nobody can stop our slashers from driving in the paint. Kyrie and Harden are blackhole in the defensive end. If they are counting on DJ to anchor their defense, I dont think he can, he's already past his prime.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:42 pm    Post subject:

chantruong wrote:
PenG_ wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
I think some people are forgetting when Harden is in peak form, teams are forced to blitz him on the perimeter. You cant do that if they have Durant, Joe Harris, and Irving ready to catch his outlet pass.


Harris is shooting 52% on 6 threes/game. ha

Another thing people aren't mentioning is how much effort Lebron will need to exert on defense. However, KD is now the guy they'll have to throw at Tatum, Giannis, Lebron, etc. His defensive responsibility just went way up.


AD would be the primary defender against KD


AD can definitely defend KD, but I dont think KD can defend AD
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:50 pm    Post subject:

Runway8 wrote:
LoPro4u2c wrote:
Lakers don’t need to worry about them. The Nets DO need to worry about Bucks, Celtics, Sixers, and Heat, tho.


I can read it already, the same trolls will say, "Mickey Mouse ring, Lakers didn't have to play the Nets."


It's not Lebron's fault that those superstars would chose to be traded in the East than got stucked in the west with Lebron lmfao.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:51 pm    Post subject:

leking006 wrote:
chantruong wrote:
PenG_ wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
I think some people are forgetting when Harden is in peak form, teams are forced to blitz him on the perimeter. You cant do that if they have Durant, Joe Harris, and Irving ready to catch his outlet pass.


Harris is shooting 52% on 6 threes/game. ha

Another thing people aren't mentioning is how much effort Lebron will need to exert on defense. However, KD is now the guy they'll have to throw at Tatum, Giannis, Lebron, etc. His defensive responsibility just went way up.


AD would be the primary defender against KD


AD can definitely defend KD, but I don't think KD can defend AD


I don't know. KD is as close to unguardable as it gets. I think KD can hang points on anyone. AD matches up well, but there's only so much AD can do to slow him down. Luckily AD will have the same (or greater) type of advantage on offense
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J.C. Smith
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:52 pm    Post subject:

The Nets need to worry about first reaching the Finals and then matching up with the Lakers. They have three players who all need the ball in their hands. And two who are epic prima donnas in Kyrie and Harden. Harden isn't a good off ball player.

Doesn't seem like an ideal fit and Kyrie seems like he's going to be on his worst behavior this season.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:07 pm    Post subject:

Yea, not worried as we sit here today. Need to see it first because I think it will end poorly for them. This isnt like the Heatles with a bunch of guys buying in on defense. This isnt them having the ultimate team-maker -- LBJ -- in getting Kyrie, K Love, and a bunch of one dimensional players (eg they can shoot, but not defend, or defend but not shoot) win a championship. This isnt a championship caliber Golden State team adding Durant to completely healthy Curry and Thompson.

This is ball hoarder Harden, playing with ball hoarder Kyrie, and KD. 2 of the 3 do not like to play defense.

They need to show me wrong, as I'm not buying stock in that.

With that said, I think the Lakers are developing into a powerhouse as Vog starts seeing who should play what minutes and what lineups work. Nets may have the best top 3 players on a team, but the Lakers have the top 2 players in the league and a vastly superior supporting cast and bench.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:15 pm    Post subject:

Kobe_Is_King13 wrote:
leking006 wrote:
chantruong wrote:
PenG_ wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
I think some people are forgetting when Harden is in peak form, teams are forced to blitz him on the perimeter. You cant do that if they have Durant, Joe Harris, and Irving ready to catch his outlet pass.


Harris is shooting 52% on 6 threes/game. ha

Another thing people aren't mentioning is how much effort Lebron will need to exert on defense. However, KD is now the guy they'll have to throw at Tatum, Giannis, Lebron, etc. His defensive responsibility just went way up.


AD would be the primary defender against KD


AD can definitely defend KD, but I don't think KD can defend AD


I don't know. KD is as close to unguardable as it gets. I think KD can hang points on anyone. AD matches up well, but there's only so much AD can do to slow him down. Luckily AD will have the same (or greater) type of advantage on offense


What makes KD unguardable is his length combined with his high release point. AD's length is a bit more than KD's so AD is one of those players that can challenge KD's unguardability
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:57 pm    Post subject:

Only one ball, and Harden is weak as hell on defense. Irving is an (bleep) mental case and KD is legit on both sides. The only player I’m worried about is KD
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:02 am    Post subject:

Stylistically they'll work just fine together. Nash and D'Antoni can work an offense that can maximize everyone.

Defensively is where we'll see what they can do. But in the East they can blow out every team on talent alone except Boston.

If the Nets are healthy, they are likely going to the Finals. If the Lakers are healthy they will meet them there.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:10 am    Post subject:

drae wrote:
Kobe_Is_King13 wrote:
leking006 wrote:
chantruong wrote:
PenG_ wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
I think some people are forgetting when Harden is in peak form, teams are forced to blitz him on the perimeter. You cant do that if they have Durant, Joe Harris, and Irving ready to catch his outlet pass.


Harris is shooting 52% on 6 threes/game. ha

Another thing people aren't mentioning is how much effort Lebron will need to exert on defense. However, KD is now the guy they'll have to throw at Tatum, Giannis, Lebron, etc. His defensive responsibility just went way up.


AD would be the primary defender against KD


AD can definitely defend KD, but I don't think KD can defend AD


I don't know. KD is as close to unguardable as it gets. I think KD can hang points on anyone. AD matches up well, but there's only so much AD can do to slow him down. Luckily AD will have the same (or greater) type of advantage on offense


What makes KD unguardable is his length combined with his high release point. AD's length is a bit more than KD's so AD is one of those players that can challenge KD's unguardability


Yes, KD's length and high release definitely contribute to making him tough player to guard, but to me the one trait that makes him impossible to check is his versatility. KD can play almost any way on offense. Primary initiator, Off-Ball movement, Catch and Shoot. You name it, he can do it. Kinda like AD, but faster and more mobile. Albeit with less of a low post game.

If we opt to put AD on KD then he can run around screens all game long and either get open looks as AD won't be able to keep up with him around picks, attack the switch man (who even if it's LeBron doesn't have the height to contest him) or make the pass to the roller/popper or other shooters. There's truly only a handful of guys in the entire league with enough length, mobility and talent to disrupt KD.

AD can do admirably, but KD moves like a guard/small forward. I just don't believe AD will be able to chase him all over the court and contest him the way some folks think. And even if he could, the other option is to simply put KD in the corner 3 position and force AD to stay glued to him. That brings our best shot blocker out of rim protecting position. There's no way anyone would leave KD even for a moment. Remember this play when Bron left KD for a moment to help rim protect?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mXKuD1Y32Q

KD's truly greatest strength is being extremely effective in any offensive role
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:22 am    Post subject:

KD and AD have played 13 games against each other

KD has won 9 (he had superior teams)

But KD averages 28 points when he plays against AD so that's actually higher than his career average. AD also averaged close to 28 points which is also higher than his career average.

I don't think either of them will shut each other down.

LBJ on the other hand has defeated KD 15 out 21 games.

KD scored 28.5 points against LBJ
LBJ scored 28.0 points against KD
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:58 am    Post subject:

If BK gets to the finals that would mean they figured something out to beat some good teams out East. This could be a problem. If they fizzle out I think it will be sooner than the finals.

We are much more sound defensively and always will be. Nets are going to be an offensive machine though. You have two of the greatest scorers of all time on that team - and 3 legit closers.

AD in my opinion, unless KD is 100% (I think he’s playing at 80% right now) will be the best player on the floor just based on his defensive impact. If KD is fully healthy ala Gstate years and they all figure out how to play with each other we are toast. There are too many ifs on the Brooklyn side however, and we are playing like a well oiled machine. So you’re either banking on a team that’s already better or a team in Brooklyn that MIGHT be better IF everything works out for them. They obviously have a higher ceiling.
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drae
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:57 am    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
KD and AD have played 13 games against each other

KD has won 9 (he had superior teams)

But KD averages 28 points when he plays against AD so that's actually higher than his career average. AD also averaged close to 28 points which is also higher than his career average.

I don't think either of them will shut each other down.

LBJ on the other hand has defeated KD 15 out 21 games.

KD scored 28.5 points against LBJ
LBJ scored 28.0 points against KD


AD spent very little time guarding KD in almost all of their previous matchups
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:34 am    Post subject:

Match up wise we do have the defenders with length/athleticism/strength to challenge their shots. We have AD for Duant, THT for Harden, and Alex/Dennis to throw at Kyrie. Now by no means are we shutting them down or anything like that, but it is a bit different than last year. THT is a key piece in a match up with Nets because he has the length and body type to get on Harden. For sure we can not blitz as effectively against them, and would need to play more man D.

Additionally, sometimes it just comes down to allowing the other team to make their own mistakes. If they run the ball through Kyrie or Harden a lot, they are not taking advantage of KD. KD went and joined an already established offense and champion winner in GST. This is a new group put together midseason with no training camp or anything. I think even if they win a ring together, the odds are it will be next season, in year 2 together. But just based on talent alone, I can see them get quite far in the playoffs immediately.
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