OFFICIAL GENERAL FREE AGENCY/TRADE THREAD (12/03/20 Updated List of Remaining 2020 Free Agents, p. 1)
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HermosaJoe
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:32 pm    Post subject:

anth2000 wrote:
Let’s hope Kuz has a chip on his shoulder. He is going into a contract year. Players usually play better to get that pay day (see Brandon Ingram). Hope he plays with more urgency and his IQ improves.


.....or Kuz could be more concerned with which hair style he rolls out and which internet "model" he is seeing.

We shall see.
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deal
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:48 pm    Post subject:

HermosaJoe wrote:
anth2000 wrote:
Let’s hope Kuz has a chip on his shoulder. He is going into a contract year. Players usually play better to get that pay day (see Brandon Ingram). Hope he plays with more urgency and his IQ improves.


.....or Kuz could be more concerned with which hair style he rolls out and which internet "model" he is seeing.

We shall see.



Kuzma is a good resource off the bench to have, he works his butt off and
does what is asked of him or he'd be long gone. Is he a star? NO. But he does play a role on this team. I will always wish him and any player that wear the P&G the best.

Seems he gets lots of grip from some fans but the coaching staff uses him as the asset he is.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:54 pm    Post subject:

deal wrote:
HermosaJoe wrote:
anth2000 wrote:
Let’s hope Kuz has a chip on his shoulder. He is going into a contract year. Players usually play better to get that pay day (see Brandon Ingram). Hope he plays with more urgency and his IQ improves.


.....or Kuz could be more concerned with which hair style he rolls out and which internet "model" he is seeing.

We shall see.



Kuzma is a good resource off the bench to have, he works his butt off and
does what is asked of him or he'd be long gone. Is he a star? NO. But he does play a role on this team. I will always wish him and any player that wear the P&G the best.

Seems he gets lots of grip from some fans but the coaching staff uses him as the asset he is.


I, for one, am pretty livid that our 10th best player isn’t an All NBA caliber talent. The fact that he also has a Twitter account is a bridge too far.
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deal
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:57 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
deal wrote:
HermosaJoe wrote:
anth2000 wrote:
Let’s hope Kuz has a chip on his shoulder. He is going into a contract year. Players usually play better to get that pay day (see Brandon Ingram). Hope he plays with more urgency and his IQ improves.


.....or Kuz could be more concerned with which hair style he rolls out and which internet "model" he is seeing.

We shall see.



Kuzma is a good resource off the bench to have, he works his butt off and
does what is asked of him or he'd be long gone. Is he a star? NO. But he does play a role on this team. I will always wish him and any player that wear the P&G the best.

Seems he gets lots of grip from some fans but the coaching staff uses him as the asset he is.


I, for one, am pretty livid that our 10th best player isn’t an All NBA caliber talent. The fact that he also has a Twitter account is a bridge too far.




Nice !
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:58 pm    Post subject:

deal wrote:
HermosaJoe wrote:
anth2000 wrote:
Let’s hope Kuz has a chip on his shoulder. He is going into a contract year. Players usually play better to get that pay day (see Brandon Ingram). Hope he plays with more urgency and his IQ improves.


.....or Kuz could be more concerned with which hair style he rolls out and which internet "model" he is seeing.

We shall see.



Kuzma is a good resource off the bench to have, he works his butt off and
does what is asked of him or he'd be long gone. Is he a star? NO. But he does play a role on this team. I will always wish him and any player that wear the P&G the best.

Seems he gets lots of grip from some fans but the coaching staff uses him as the asset he is.


This. You have to see other pastures. A player many here will love to have in this team is Aaron Gordon. Why? Because they had seen the ESPN highlights but not much more. As soon you look at career and last season stats and added to his 18mil contract, then is not as outrageous as 12mil extension to Kuz.
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MookieBetts50
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:01 pm    Post subject:

Camp opens Tuesday the 1st, hoping we plug some holes on the roster before then.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:05 pm    Post subject:

MookieBetts50 wrote:
Camp opens Tuesday the 1st, hoping we plug some holes on the roster before then.


Holes??
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:05 pm    Post subject:

KingKobe20 wrote:
Puma Hoops- THANKS FOR THE MOTIVATION- KYLE KUZMA


I don't care about what Kuzma does by his self, with no one on him, for a dang puma commercial. looking good for the camera, with a person chopping up, editing his alone footage to paint a picture that isn't real when I see him in game play. He really dunked and looked down into the camera in this. I couldn't care less about this because at the end of the day, he has fell off a cliff in terms of in game play. Maybe without rondo his production goes up..... or he's just not that good.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:21 pm    Post subject:

cal1piggy wrote:
CRoost wrote:
golakersgo121 wrote:
ocho wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
The faith that Kuzma will become something special while simultaneously believing Ingram would never be particularly be great by many on this board will always be a mystery to me. Even though Ingram was very young and trended upward every season and Kuzma was older and his eFG% regressed, people think... but, but his defense is improving. Had Ingram shot 30% then 31% from three two years in a row... the cries calling him trash would never end, but instead the criticism of Kuzma in constrast seems very muted.

I still hope Kuzma breaks out if we keep him and suddenly starts shooting high thirties from range... but if you go by statistical trends, it's hard to see that happening. That would be the only thing that would make me want to keep him over having Derrick Rose as a back up to Schroder.


Let the wounds heal. If we had social media in 1996, there would have been people saying that Kobe would never be anything more than a hot dog and that Shaq would never win anything. There are always disagreements about players. Sometimes you're right. Sometimes you're wrong. Even some of the most astute posters on the board have shot air balls. The Ingram Wars are over. Let it go.

As for Kuzma, he's been getting clobbered for years. The differences are (1) Ingram was a much higher pick with much higher expectations, and (2) Kuzma became a fan favorite for whatever reason, and people aren't always rational about fan favorites. However, Caruso is taking over his spot as the fan favorite who can do no wrong. Unlike Kuzma, Caruso actually has one above average NBA skill: he's a legitimately good defensive guard.


It just doesn't make sense why people would value Kuz over DRose with this roster. I don't dislike Kuz, as you said, he was amazing value considering his draft position... he does have talent. I just am deathly afraid they will overpay him because of those irrational fan favorite sentiments.

Rob has shown a strong, almost ruthless lack of sentiment this offseason so I still have faith we will make the right choice... but I'm more worried someone like Jeanie will intervene and there we might be next season saddled with a Clarkson like contract with someone who can't even create like Jordan can.


Sorry but who are these people that are wildly overrating Kuzma? There was hope after year 1 the shooting would maintain or improve. It got worse and so did people’s perception of him. He seems properly rated around here. I’ve seen a lot of player worship on this board over the years and Kuzma is not one of those guys. He’s a versatile wing who showed improvement on D last year. I don’t think any fan sees him as indispensable. Don’t think we have to worry about overpaying him when the people in charge have shopped him every deadline and declined to give him an extension that he’s currently eligible for.


Yep. I am not sure people realize - but as of today I estimate contractual value of both, Kuz, and Clarkson, to be around an MLE for two/three seasons. Yet - Utah decided to overpay and give him 4 years deal at about 20% above MLE. If anything - Kuz IMHO might be slightly higher on that pay scale pole due to his improved defense. I like Jordan and wish him well as any former Lakers draft pick - but would be totally against signing him.

As it pertains to Kuz - sure, he can expect to get paid. But I simply don't see any value of signing him at anything above the MLE (at this time) and even that might be hindered by possibility to pursue better player(s).

In terms of real vs perceived value I see similarity with DFish/Horry/DGeorge from earlier championship seasons. If you are capable of knowing your role and understand your limitations (and team's fans do as well) - you stay, team wins and fans adore you (but - once more - there is no infatuation). If you (or your agent) do not - your life becomes traveling circus (see: Ariza, Trevor)


Someone here said Kuz is worth around 3 mil which is laughable considering how guys signing nowadays since the cap blew up. I think MLE is a good value for him. Pelinka did a great job this off season picking up bargains but those guys are betting themselves for a much bigger 2021 market.

If the Lakers want to plan for the big picture, they should showcase Kuz in the regular season. Start him on Green spot, extract the best possible version . Make him an intriguing trade asset so when a marquee player requested to be traded next off season, we finally have a player that can make it interesting. At worst if the plan does not go accordingly, we can match any offer sheet.



you start kuz at 2 and make him more valuable if he does well.
alternatively if he cannot handle guard speed, his value drops even more.

we were able to get matthews for the bae, and his 3p% was 39% last season.
in comparison, kuz 3p% was horrid at 31.6% last season and 30.8% the previous season.
so the alternative is to trade kuz EARLY hoping some team dreams on him, and get whatever you can get for him now.


Even if Matthews balls out for us, there’s little to gain with his age . Playoff is different but regular season is not big of a deal if we start Kuz. The upside is higher with Kuz if he did. Also I am not insinuating he starts there and play there the whole time. Vogel can stagger his minutes on 3 and 4 after. Just saying as a volume scorer, he need shots to get into rhythm.

With his meager salary, you can’t get an upgrade if you trade him
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cal1piggy
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:28 pm    Post subject:

CRoost wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
CRoost wrote:
golakersgo121 wrote:
ocho wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
The faith that Kuzma will become something special while simultaneously believing Ingram would never be particularly be great by many on this board will always be a mystery to me. Even though Ingram was very young and trended upward every season and Kuzma was older and his eFG% regressed, people think... but, but his defense is improving. Had Ingram shot 30% then 31% from three two years in a row... the cries calling him trash would never end, but instead the criticism of Kuzma in constrast seems very muted.

I still hope Kuzma breaks out if we keep him and suddenly starts shooting high thirties from range... but if you go by statistical trends, it's hard to see that happening. That would be the only thing that would make me want to keep him over having Derrick Rose as a back up to Schroder.


Let the wounds heal. If we had social media in 1996, there would have been people saying that Kobe would never be anything more than a hot dog and that Shaq would never win anything. There are always disagreements about players. Sometimes you're right. Sometimes you're wrong. Even some of the most astute posters on the board have shot air balls. The Ingram Wars are over. Let it go.

As for Kuzma, he's been getting clobbered for years. The differences are (1) Ingram was a much higher pick with much higher expectations, and (2) Kuzma became a fan favorite for whatever reason, and people aren't always rational about fan favorites. However, Caruso is taking over his spot as the fan favorite who can do no wrong. Unlike Kuzma, Caruso actually has one above average NBA skill: he's a legitimately good defensive guard.


It just doesn't make sense why people would value Kuz over DRose with this roster. I don't dislike Kuz, as you said, he was amazing value considering his draft position... he does have talent. I just am deathly afraid they will overpay him because of those irrational fan favorite sentiments.

Rob has shown a strong, almost ruthless lack of sentiment this offseason so I still have faith we will make the right choice... but I'm more worried someone like Jeanie will intervene and there we might be next season saddled with a Clarkson like contract with someone who can't even create like Jordan can.


Sorry but who are these people that are wildly overrating Kuzma? There was hope after year 1 the shooting would maintain or improve. It got worse and so did people’s perception of him. He seems properly rated around here. I’ve seen a lot of player worship on this board over the years and Kuzma is not one of those guys. He’s a versatile wing who showed improvement on D last year. I don’t think any fan sees him as indispensable. Don’t think we have to worry about overpaying him when the people in charge have shopped him every deadline and declined to give him an extension that he’s currently eligible for.


Yep. I am not sure people realize - but as of today I estimate contractual value of both, Kuz, and Clarkson, to be around an MLE for two/three seasons. Yet - Utah decided to overpay and give him 4 years deal at about 20% above MLE. If anything - Kuz IMHO might be slightly higher on that pay scale pole due to his improved defense. I like Jordan and wish him well as any former Lakers draft pick - but would be totally against signing him.

As it pertains to Kuz - sure, he can expect to get paid. But I simply don't see any value of signing him at anything above the MLE (at this time) and even that might be hindered by possibility to pursue better player(s).

In terms of real vs perceived value I see similarity with DFish/Horry/DGeorge from earlier championship seasons. If you are capable of knowing your role and understand your limitations (and team's fans do as well) - you stay, team wins and fans adore you (but - once more - there is no infatuation). If you (or your agent) do not - your life becomes traveling circus (see: Ariza, Trevor)


Someone here said Kuz is worth around 3 mil which is laughable considering how guys signing nowadays since the cap blew up. I think MLE is a good value for him. Pelinka did a great job this off season picking up bargains but those guys are betting themselves for a much bigger 2021 market.

If the Lakers want to plan for the big picture, they should showcase Kuz in the regular season. Start him on Green spot, extract the best possible version . Make him an intriguing trade asset so when a marquee player requested to be traded next off season, we finally have a player that can make it interesting. At worst if the plan does not go accordingly, we can match any offer sheet.



you start kuz at 2 and make him more valuable if he does well.
alternatively if he cannot handle guard speed, his value drops even more.

we were able to get matthews for the bae, and his 3p% was 39% last season.
in comparison, kuz 3p% was horrid at 31.6% last season and 30.8% the previous season.
so the alternative is to trade kuz EARLY hoping some team dreams on him, and get whatever you can get for him now.


Even if Matthews balls out for us, there’s little to gain with his age . Playoff is different but regular season is not big of a deal if we start Kuz. The upside is higher with Kuz if he did. Also I am not insinuating he starts there and play there the whole time. Vogel can stagger his minutes on 3 and 4 after. Just saying as a volume scorer, he need shots to get into rhythm.

With his meager salary, you can’t get an upgrade if you trade him


the downside to starting kuz at the 2 is his value dropping more if he sucks

alternatively we trade him for something asap
may be desmond bane and a pick after a month?

or the hornets pg devonte graham
we know hornets wanted a pf and wanted to sign trezz
graham did pretty well last year with 3p% over 37% and average 7.5 assists
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:31 pm    Post subject:

Outspoken wrote:
KingKobe20 wrote:
Puma Hoops- THANKS FOR THE MOTIVATION- KYLE KUZMA


I don't care about what Kuzma does by his self, with no one on him, for a dang puma commercial. looking good for the camera, with a person chopping up, editing his alone footage to paint a picture that isn't real when I see him in game play. He really dunked and looked down into the camera in this. I couldn't care less about this because at the end of the day, he has fell off a cliff in terms of in game play. Maybe without rondo his production goes up..... or he's just not that good.


Is this just a Kuzma thing or are equally judgemental when watching highlights of any player?

Whether it be a commercial, YouTube or ESPN, most opinions by fans (and sometimes reporters and analysts) are based on this kind of video.

Curious, were equally dismissive of Cousins workout video that made the rounds a few weeks ago? Multiple posters used that as solid evidence that Cousins is ready to play. Or when you watch game highlights of a player that had a monster dunk or block but do not see he played no defense on the next few plays. Or watch highlights of a player hitting a couple 3s but check the box score to see he went 2/8?

All examples of how misleading highlights can be. And remember this Kuzma tape is a commercial. Meant to sell his shoes. Not illustrate his game. I liked his commentary in it, but I will agree he has to prove it on the floor this season. Along with every other player.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:51 pm    Post subject:

I'm beside myself when a good (not great) complementary player
for the LAL's gets bashed by his own team fans. What the hell is that
about?

Again, this kid does what he's asked at the best of his ability; that's it,
nothing more and nothing less. We have the 2 all stars, the rest of the
players, including Kuzma, play a role.

It's really distasteful to get into this kid who has done nothing but
give it his all since he arrived. Not good enough? really? The
coaching staff and FO seem to have a role for him.

The day he leaves he's gone, we move on but while he's a Laker; a
little support seems like the right way to go.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:56 pm    Post subject:

deal wrote:
I'm beside myself when a good (not great) complementary player
for the LAL's gets bashed by his own team fans. What the hell is that
about?

Again, this kid does what he's asked at the best of his ability; that's it,
nothing more and nothing less. We have the 2 all stars, the rest of the
players, including Kuzma, play a role.

It's really distasteful to get into this kid who has done nothing but
give it his all since he arrived. Not good enough? really? The
coaching staff and FO seem to have a role for him.

The day he leaves he's gone, we move on but while he's a Laker; a
little support seems like the right way to go.


Thank you Deal, good to know there are fans that really support our players and appreciate the hard work they actually put in. They day they become an ex-Lakers is they day I stop routing. Kuz there are plenty of fan that still believe, keep working hard hoping your 4th season is your breakout season.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 2:08 pm    Post subject:

cal1piggy wrote:
CRoost wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
CRoost wrote:
golakersgo121 wrote:
ocho wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
The faith that Kuzma will become something special while simultaneously believing Ingram would never be particularly be great by many on this board will always be a mystery to me. Even though Ingram was very young and trended upward every season and Kuzma was older and his eFG% regressed, people think... but, but his defense is improving. Had Ingram shot 30% then 31% from three two years in a row... the cries calling him trash would never end, but instead the criticism of Kuzma in constrast seems very muted.

I still hope Kuzma breaks out if we keep him and suddenly starts shooting high thirties from range... but if you go by statistical trends, it's hard to see that happening. That would be the only thing that would make me want to keep him over having Derrick Rose as a back up to Schroder.


Let the wounds heal. If we had social media in 1996, there would have been people saying that Kobe would never be anything more than a hot dog and that Shaq would never win anything. There are always disagreements about players. Sometimes you're right. Sometimes you're wrong. Even some of the most astute posters on the board have shot air balls. The Ingram Wars are over. Let it go.

As for Kuzma, he's been getting clobbered for years. The differences are (1) Ingram was a much higher pick with much higher expectations, and (2) Kuzma became a fan favorite for whatever reason, and people aren't always rational about fan favorites. However, Caruso is taking over his spot as the fan favorite who can do no wrong. Unlike Kuzma, Caruso actually has one above average NBA skill: he's a legitimately good defensive guard.


It just doesn't make sense why people would value Kuz over DRose with this roster. I don't dislike Kuz, as you said, he was amazing value considering his draft position... he does have talent. I just am deathly afraid they will overpay him because of those irrational fan favorite sentiments.

Rob has shown a strong, almost ruthless lack of sentiment this offseason so I still have faith we will make the right choice... but I'm more worried someone like Jeanie will intervene and there we might be next season saddled with a Clarkson like contract with someone who can't even create like Jordan can.


Sorry but who are these people that are wildly overrating Kuzma? There was hope after year 1 the shooting would maintain or improve. It got worse and so did people’s perception of him. He seems properly rated around here. I’ve seen a lot of player worship on this board over the years and Kuzma is not one of those guys. He’s a versatile wing who showed improvement on D last year. I don’t think any fan sees him as indispensable. Don’t think we have to worry about overpaying him when the people in charge have shopped him every deadline and declined to give him an extension that he’s currently eligible for.


Yep. I am not sure people realize - but as of today I estimate contractual value of both, Kuz, and Clarkson, to be around an MLE for two/three seasons. Yet - Utah decided to overpay and give him 4 years deal at about 20% above MLE. If anything - Kuz IMHO might be slightly higher on that pay scale pole due to his improved defense. I like Jordan and wish him well as any former Lakers draft pick - but would be totally against signing him.

As it pertains to Kuz - sure, he can expect to get paid. But I simply don't see any value of signing him at anything above the MLE (at this time) and even that might be hindered by possibility to pursue better player(s).

In terms of real vs perceived value I see similarity with DFish/Horry/DGeorge from earlier championship seasons. If you are capable of knowing your role and understand your limitations (and team's fans do as well) - you stay, team wins and fans adore you (but - once more - there is no infatuation). If you (or your agent) do not - your life becomes traveling circus (see: Ariza, Trevor)


Someone here said Kuz is worth around 3 mil which is laughable considering how guys signing nowadays since the cap blew up. I think MLE is a good value for him. Pelinka did a great job this off season picking up bargains but those guys are betting themselves for a much bigger 2021 market.

If the Lakers want to plan for the big picture, they should showcase Kuz in the regular season. Start him on Green spot, extract the best possible version . Make him an intriguing trade asset so when a marquee player requested to be traded next off season, we finally have a player that can make it interesting. At worst if the plan does not go accordingly, we can match any offer sheet.



you start kuz at 2 and make him more valuable if he does well.
alternatively if he cannot handle guard speed, his value drops even more.

we were able to get matthews for the bae, and his 3p% was 39% last season.
in comparison, kuz 3p% was horrid at 31.6% last season and 30.8% the previous season.
so the alternative is to trade kuz EARLY hoping some team dreams on him, and get whatever you can get for him now.


Even if Matthews balls out for us, there’s little to gain with his age . Playoff is different but regular season is not big of a deal if we start Kuz. The upside is higher with Kuz if he did. Also I am not insinuating he starts there and play there the whole time. Vogel can stagger his minutes on 3 and 4 after. Just saying as a volume scorer, he need shots to get into rhythm.

With his meager salary, you can’t get an upgrade if you trade him


the downside to starting kuz at the 2 is his value dropping more if he sucks

alternatively we trade him for something asap
may be desmond bane and a pick after a month?

or the hornets pg devonte graham
we know hornets wanted a pf and wanted to sign trezz
graham did pretty well last year with 3p% over 37% and average 7.5 assists


None of these guys will likely become part of playoff rotation. Graham might not get minutes as he does not fit our team identity. Lebron will play his game for 30 plus minutes and Schröder will run the offense when he’s out. Other guys will have to fill in the 3 & D role and play without the ball. That is not Graham does best.

The downside is you’re selling him low and you’re expecting him to get worst when he is at his peak physically . At his worst, he’s still a decent playoff and part of our rotation.

Kuz already average 21 ppg as a starter. Like I said he’s a volume scorer.

Know your personnel especially your role player and put them in a favorable situation that they can thrive.


Last edited by CRoost on Fri Nov 27, 2020 2:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 2:15 pm    Post subject:

deal wrote:
I'm beside myself when a good (not great) complementary player
for the LAL's gets bashed by his own team fans. What the hell is that
about?

Again, this kid does what he's asked at the best of his ability; that's it,
nothing more and nothing less. We have the 2 all stars, the rest of the
players, including Kuzma, play a role.

It's really distasteful to get into this kid who has done nothing but
give it his all since he arrived. Not good enough? really? The
coaching staff and FO seem to have a role for him.

The day he leaves he's gone, we move on but while he's a Laker; a
little support seems like the right way to go.


None of our role players will have an upside like Kuz does that will align on our team best interest short term and long term.

Schroder plays well, he will command big salary.

Trez is the same, will likely seek that big paycheck.

Same with Kief and Matthews.

They can choose wherever they want to be after this season.

If Kuz hit his stride, not only you have a player that can be an enticing trade asset, you also have the right to match on whoever bids on him.

Him , Caruso and THT are prime examples intriguing trade assets if we develop them on obtaining a marquee player to pair with AD for the long run along with KCP contract.
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governator
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 2:16 pm    Post subject:

Get that bread Kuz! Puma Kuz-Rhuigi... buck fifty tho, rather get mamba fury or mamba focus
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 2:16 pm    Post subject:

Desmond Bane?? He will be a G- Leaguer, lol!!
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 2:36 pm    Post subject:

CRoost wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
CRoost wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
CRoost wrote:
golakersgo121 wrote:
ocho wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
The faith that Kuzma will become something special while simultaneously believing Ingram would never be particularly be great by many on this board will always be a mystery to me. Even though Ingram was very young and trended upward every season and Kuzma was older and his eFG% regressed, people think... but, but his defense is improving. Had Ingram shot 30% then 31% from three two years in a row... the cries calling him trash would never end, but instead the criticism of Kuzma in constrast seems very muted.

I still hope Kuzma breaks out if we keep him and suddenly starts shooting high thirties from range... but if you go by statistical trends, it's hard to see that happening. That would be the only thing that would make me want to keep him over having Derrick Rose as a back up to Schroder.


Let the wounds heal. If we had social media in 1996, there would have been people saying that Kobe would never be anything more than a hot dog and that Shaq would never win anything. There are always disagreements about players. Sometimes you're right. Sometimes you're wrong. Even some of the most astute posters on the board have shot air balls. The Ingram Wars are over. Let it go.

As for Kuzma, he's been getting clobbered for years. The differences are (1) Ingram was a much higher pick with much higher expectations, and (2) Kuzma became a fan favorite for whatever reason, and people aren't always rational about fan favorites. However, Caruso is taking over his spot as the fan favorite who can do no wrong. Unlike Kuzma, Caruso actually has one above average NBA skill: he's a legitimately good defensive guard.


It just doesn't make sense why people would value Kuz over DRose with this roster. I don't dislike Kuz, as you said, he was amazing value considering his draft position... he does have talent. I just am deathly afraid they will overpay him because of those irrational fan favorite sentiments.

Rob has shown a strong, almost ruthless lack of sentiment this offseason so I still have faith we will make the right choice... but I'm more worried someone like Jeanie will intervene and there we might be next season saddled with a Clarkson like contract with someone who can't even create like Jordan can.


Sorry but who are these people that are wildly overrating Kuzma? There was hope after year 1 the shooting would maintain or improve. It got worse and so did people’s perception of him. He seems properly rated around here. I’ve seen a lot of player worship on this board over the years and Kuzma is not one of those guys. He’s a versatile wing who showed improvement on D last year. I don’t think any fan sees him as indispensable. Don’t think we have to worry about overpaying him when the people in charge have shopped him every deadline and declined to give him an extension that he’s currently eligible for.


Yep. I am not sure people realize - but as of today I estimate contractual value of both, Kuz, and Clarkson, to be around an MLE for two/three seasons. Yet - Utah decided to overpay and give him 4 years deal at about 20% above MLE. If anything - Kuz IMHO might be slightly higher on that pay scale pole due to his improved defense. I like Jordan and wish him well as any former Lakers draft pick - but would be totally against signing him.

As it pertains to Kuz - sure, he can expect to get paid. But I simply don't see any value of signing him at anything above the MLE (at this time) and even that might be hindered by possibility to pursue better player(s).

In terms of real vs perceived value I see similarity with DFish/Horry/DGeorge from earlier championship seasons. If you are capable of knowing your role and understand your limitations (and team's fans do as well) - you stay, team wins and fans adore you (but - once more - there is no infatuation). If you (or your agent) do not - your life becomes traveling circus (see: Ariza, Trevor)


Someone here said Kuz is worth around 3 mil which is laughable considering how guys signing nowadays since the cap blew up. I think MLE is a good value for him. Pelinka did a great job this off season picking up bargains but those guys are betting themselves for a much bigger 2021 market.

If the Lakers want to plan for the big picture, they should showcase Kuz in the regular season. Start him on Green spot, extract the best possible version . Make him an intriguing trade asset so when a marquee player requested to be traded next off season, we finally have a player that can make it interesting. At worst if the plan does not go accordingly, we can match any offer sheet.



you start kuz at 2 and make him more valuable if he does well.
alternatively if he cannot handle guard speed, his value drops even more.

we were able to get matthews for the bae, and his 3p% was 39% last season.
in comparison, kuz 3p% was horrid at 31.6% last season and 30.8% the previous season.
so the alternative is to trade kuz EARLY hoping some team dreams on him, and get whatever you can get for him now.


Even if Matthews balls out for us, there’s little to gain with his age . Playoff is different but regular season is not big of a deal if we start Kuz. The upside is higher with Kuz if he did. Also I am not insinuating he starts there and play there the whole time. Vogel can stagger his minutes on 3 and 4 after. Just saying as a volume scorer, he need shots to get into rhythm.

With his meager salary, you can’t get an upgrade if you trade him


the downside to starting kuz at the 2 is his value dropping more if he sucks

alternatively we trade him for something asap
may be desmond bane and a pick after a month?

or the hornets pg devonte graham
we know hornets wanted a pf and wanted to sign trezz
graham did pretty well last year with 3p% over 37% and average 7.5 assists


None of these guys will likely become part of playoff rotation. Graham might not get minutes as he does not fit our team identity. Lebron will play his game for 30 plus minutes and Schröder will run the offense when he’s out. Other guys will have to fill in the 3 & D role and play without the ball. That is not Graham does best.

The downside is you’re selling him low and you’re expecting him to get worst when he is at his peak physically . At his worst, he’s still a decent playoff and part of our rotation.

Kuz already average 21 ppg as a starter. Like I said he’s a volume scorer.

Know your personnel especially your role player and put them in a favorable situation that they can thrive.


his offense fits pretty well. he has good 3p%, can drive and finish, and averages over 7 assists.

the problem would be hornets refusing to trade graham for kuz
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Dr. Laker
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:29 pm    Post subject:

deal wrote:
I'm beside myself when a good (not great) complementary player
for the LAL's gets bashed by his own team fans. What the hell is that
about?

Again, this kid does what he's asked at the best of his ability; that's it,
nothing more and nothing less. We have the 2 all stars, the rest of the
players, including Kuzma, play a role.

It's really distasteful to get into this kid who has done nothing but
give it his all since he arrived. Not good enough? really? The
coaching staff and FO seem to have a role for him.

The day he leaves he's gone, we move on but while he's a Laker; a
little support seems like the right way to go.


1 - I love Kuzma!

2 - Kuzma put up career lows in FG%, eFG%, TS%, AST/36, WS, BPM & VORP.

3 - Kuzma put up career highs in PF/36, TOV/36, "Long 2PA", & corner 3% (a great stat to post a career high).

He's a guy with talent, and can contribute. The issue is - can he contribute more than the other guys on the roster ahead of him? LBJ is the DeFacto SF (certainly defensively). These are the big questions:

A) - Do you trust Kuz as a 2 on either side of the ball, over KCP or Wes?

B) - Is the team better with Kuz at PF and AD at C over either AD/Gasol or AD/Trez?

C) - Who eats 1st in a bench unit of Schro/AC/Kuz/Kieff/Trez? Who eats 2nd?

Kuz will be fighting for minutes this year - this team has a ton of talent - and it may be best for all concerned to trade him.
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LastStand 2.0
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:41 pm    Post subject:

I don’t think kuzmas fit matters this season for the regular season. We have a lot of talent 10 men in. Kuzma is one of them

I foresee a lot of 10 men rotations with the shortened season so I anticipate kuzma being quite the factor. He’ll still get 25 min a night
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:55 pm    Post subject:

Kuzma needs to play next to a lower usage point guard to help him cut the distance to the hoop in order to optimize his contract offers.

That guy was Lonzo. LaMelo Ball would help out tremendously too.

It isn't Rozier. It isn't Graham. Those are SGs in PG bodies.
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Caruso/Dennis
KCP/Matthews/
LBJ/THT
AD/Kuzma/
Gasol/Harrell/Kieff/

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hype
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:57 pm    Post subject:

LastStand 2.0 wrote:
I don’t think kuzmas fit matters this season for the regular season. We have a lot of talent 10 men in. Kuzma is one of them

I foresee a lot of 10 men rotations with the shortened season so I anticipate kuzma being quite the factor. He’ll still get 25 min a night


Yeah, he'll be huge for those Lebron or AD off nights as well considering how long the season is. I also trust him on Kawhi and a few other big time matchups over just about anyone on the roster outside of Lebron of course which we ideally wont have to ask him to do that very often if at all.

Kind of insane to see some people say he has fallen off this last season? Makes me really wonder if we watched 2 completely different seasons. He def. has plenty to still work on no question but some of the takes legitimately make me wonder how much they actually watch or pay attention outside of the flashy statistics.

I'm sure the Lakers will be open to listen to any trade offers for him up until the deadline and if a legitimate offer comes around they'll jump on it but no reason to trade him just for the hell of it which many of the proposals i've seen thrown around is doing.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:59 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
1 - I love Kuzma!

2 - Kuzma put up career lows in FG%, eFG%, TS%, AST/36, WS, BPM & VORP.

3 - Kuzma put up career highs in PF/36, TOV/36, "Long 2PA", & corner 3% (a great stat to post a career high).

He's a guy with talent, and can contribute. The issue is - can he contribute more than the other guys on the roster ahead of him? LBJ is the DeFacto SF (certainly defensively). These are the big questions:

A) - Do you trust Kuz as a 2 on either side of the ball, over KCP or Wes?

B) - Is the team better with Kuz at PF and AD at C over either AD/Gasol or AD/Trez?

C) - Who eats 1st in a bench unit of Schro/AC/Kuz/Kieff/Trez? Who eats 2nd?

Kuz will be fighting for minutes this year - this team has a ton of talent - and it may be best for all concerned to trade him.


If there's one thing that LAL doesn't optimize out of their young players, it's putting them in the same role for future projection leading to success.

Kuzma playing spot up shooter/PnR finisher was great for his rookie year, hence a lot of career highs noted with shooting. But for a championship team when the USG is lower and he needed to focus on defense, decision making is more of a priority than points on the board. Those baby Laker teams didn't have a leader. Now, he has to facilitate to at least two guys in LeBron and AD. That gets compounded more with Schroder's decision making ability too.

Kuzma has changed roles and LAL needed him to be that 3 and D guy, even if that's a foreign position to him. He didn't play that at Utah. He didn't play that as a young Laker player. But for his future, it may be in his best interest to follow the route of John Collins, where big numbers don't directly correlate to wins. Yet, John, who at least has had Kuzma's rookie year role for his entire player contract, is out there demanding the max. Kuzma isn't there.
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Caruso/Dennis
KCP/Matthews/
LBJ/THT
AD/Kuzma/
Gasol/Harrell/Kieff/

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CRoost
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:00 pm    Post subject:

cal1piggy wrote:
CRoost wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
CRoost wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
CRoost wrote:
golakersgo121 wrote:
ocho wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
The faith that Kuzma will become something special while simultaneously believing Ingram would never be particularly be great by many on this board will always be a mystery to me. Even though Ingram was very young and trended upward every season and Kuzma was older and his eFG% regressed, people think... but, but his defense is improving. Had Ingram shot 30% then 31% from three two years in a row... the cries calling him trash would never end, but instead the criticism of Kuzma in constrast seems very muted.

I still hope Kuzma breaks out if we keep him and suddenly starts shooting high thirties from range... but if you go by statistical trends, it's hard to see that happening. That would be the only thing that would make me want to keep him over having Derrick Rose as a back up to Schroder.


Let the wounds heal. If we had social media in 1996, there would have been people saying that Kobe would never be anything more than a hot dog and that Shaq would never win anything. There are always disagreements about players. Sometimes you're right. Sometimes you're wrong. Even some of the most astute posters on the board have shot air balls. The Ingram Wars are over. Let it go.

As for Kuzma, he's been getting clobbered for years. The differences are (1) Ingram was a much higher pick with much higher expectations, and (2) Kuzma became a fan favorite for whatever reason, and people aren't always rational about fan favorites. However, Caruso is taking over his spot as the fan favorite who can do no wrong. Unlike Kuzma, Caruso actually has one above average NBA skill: he's a legitimately good defensive guard.


It just doesn't make sense why people would value Kuz over DRose with this roster. I don't dislike Kuz, as you said, he was amazing value considering his draft position... he does have talent. I just am deathly afraid they will overpay him because of those irrational fan favorite sentiments.

Rob has shown a strong, almost ruthless lack of sentiment this offseason so I still have faith we will make the right choice... but I'm more worried someone like Jeanie will intervene and there we might be next season saddled with a Clarkson like contract with someone who can't even create like Jordan can.


Sorry but who are these people that are wildly overrating Kuzma? There was hope after year 1 the shooting would maintain or improve. It got worse and so did people’s perception of him. He seems properly rated around here. I’ve seen a lot of player worship on this board over the years and Kuzma is not one of those guys. He’s a versatile wing who showed improvement on D last year. I don’t think any fan sees him as indispensable. Don’t think we have to worry about overpaying him when the people in charge have shopped him every deadline and declined to give him an extension that he’s currently eligible for.


Yep. I am not sure people realize - but as of today I estimate contractual value of both, Kuz, and Clarkson, to be around an MLE for two/three seasons. Yet - Utah decided to overpay and give him 4 years deal at about 20% above MLE. If anything - Kuz IMHO might be slightly higher on that pay scale pole due to his improved defense. I like Jordan and wish him well as any former Lakers draft pick - but would be totally against signing him.

As it pertains to Kuz - sure, he can expect to get paid. But I simply don't see any value of signing him at anything above the MLE (at this time) and even that might be hindered by possibility to pursue better player(s).

In terms of real vs perceived value I see similarity with DFish/Horry/DGeorge from earlier championship seasons. If you are capable of knowing your role and understand your limitations (and team's fans do as well) - you stay, team wins and fans adore you (but - once more - there is no infatuation). If you (or your agent) do not - your life becomes traveling circus (see: Ariza, Trevor)


Someone here said Kuz is worth around 3 mil which is laughable considering how guys signing nowadays since the cap blew up. I think MLE is a good value for him. Pelinka did a great job this off season picking up bargains but those guys are betting themselves for a much bigger 2021 market.

If the Lakers want to plan for the big picture, they should showcase Kuz in the regular season. Start him on Green spot, extract the best possible version . Make him an intriguing trade asset so when a marquee player requested to be traded next off season, we finally have a player that can make it interesting. At worst if the plan does not go accordingly, we can match any offer sheet.



you start kuz at 2 and make him more valuable if he does well.
alternatively if he cannot handle guard speed, his value drops even more.

we were able to get matthews for the bae, and his 3p% was 39% last season.
in comparison, kuz 3p% was horrid at 31.6% last season and 30.8% the previous season.
so the alternative is to trade kuz EARLY hoping some team dreams on him, and get whatever you can get for him now.


Even if Matthews balls out for us, there’s little to gain with his age . Playoff is different but regular season is not big of a deal if we start Kuz. The upside is higher with Kuz if he did. Also I am not insinuating he starts there and play there the whole time. Vogel can stagger his minutes on 3 and 4 after. Just saying as a volume scorer, he need shots to get into rhythm.

With his meager salary, you can’t get an upgrade if you trade him


the downside to starting kuz at the 2 is his value dropping more if he sucks

alternatively we trade him for something asap
may be desmond bane and a pick after a month?

or the hornets pg devonte graham
we know hornets wanted a pf and wanted to sign trezz
graham did pretty well last year with 3p% over 37% and average 7.5 assists


None of these guys will likely become part of playoff rotation. Graham might not get minutes as he does not fit our team identity. Lebron will play his game for 30 plus minutes and Schröder will run the offense when he’s out. Other guys will have to fill in the 3 & D role and play without the ball. That is not Graham does best.

The downside is you’re selling him low and you’re expecting him to get worst when he is at his peak physically . At his worst, he’s still a decent playoff and part of our rotation.

Kuz already average 21 ppg as a starter. Like I said he’s a volume scorer.

Know your personnel especially your role player and put them in a favorable situation that they can thrive.


his offense fits pretty well. he has good 3p%, can drive and finish, and averages over 7 assists.

the problem would be hornets refusing to trade graham for kuz


We have enough offense and others provide enough spacing with defense. Between Lebron ball and Schroder, there’s not enough room for Graham to get minutes unless one of them gets injured. No point of losing an asset for insurance policy.

Let me ask you since you keep insistent on Graham

Can he out play Schroder in his role in our offense?

Can he play rabbit chaser like KCP in defense

Can he outhustle Caruso? Can he create a chemistry with Lebron like Caruso did at both ends?

Does he has enough experience like Matthews and play defense?

And who’s gonna be our long wing defender in regular season since you’re too keen on disposing Kuz?
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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:03 pm    Post subject:

In regards to CHA, trading Graham for a role player, is a non-starter.

Doesn't matter if they have 3 PGs. CHA was smart in drafting their idea of BPA.
_________________
Resident Car Nut.

Caruso/Dennis
KCP/Matthews/
LBJ/THT
AD/Kuzma/
Gasol/Harrell/Kieff/

I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans.
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