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gng930
Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 11476
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 Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | gng930 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Why trade for Rose when Rondo (I can't believe it myself) has been perfectly adequate as a backup PG? |
Lebron benefitted from an atypically long off-season and a 4-month break. We need to find ways to keep him fresh after a more typical offseason duration and regular season. Rondo is also fairly injury prone. Rose provides scoring, ball-handling, and play-making. Teague and DJ I agree would be solid options but neither of them provide the gravitas of Rose or the ability to end scoring droughts. I think we're better off using the our FA assets to go after a wing and resign Dwight ± Morris.
I would trade McGee, Cook, and #28 for him. I'd give some pause though if we'd need to include a rotational player though in the end you'd need to clear up the glut at guard anyway. |
Here's the difference between Teague and DJ (though I disagree about either guy not being enough).
Don't have to trade for them. They're just FA pick ups.
McGee, Cook, #28 for Rose and Detroit hangs up. They have a new GM, and he has something to prove. Can't just make a move like that and keep a job.
Troy Weaver spent 12 seasons with OKC. He wants salary dumps AND young prospects. |
Do I think DET agrees? No. Could LA use someone like Rose? Absolutely as it's a mistake to ride Lebron as much as we did for another full regular season under less extenuating circumstances.
I just have a tough time believing we can meet all our offseason goals (wing defender, secondary creator, re-sign Dwight ± Morris) with just the exceptions. It's probably ambitious but I think if it is to be achieved it would probably require a trade.
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RI Laker
Star Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 7157
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| NO D = NO LAKERS |
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PlantedTanks
Star Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2017
Posts: 3156
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| RI Laker wrote: | | NO D = NO LAKERS |
Vogel says +1 |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| gng930 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | gng930 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Why trade for Rose when Rondo (I can't believe it myself) has been perfectly adequate as a backup PG? |
Lebron benefitted from an atypically long off-season and a 4-month break. We need to find ways to keep him fresh after a more typical offseason duration and regular season. Rondo is also fairly injury prone. Rose provides scoring, ball-handling, and play-making. Teague and DJ I agree would be solid options but neither of them provide the gravitas of Rose or the ability to end scoring droughts. I think we're better off using the our FA assets to go after a wing and resign Dwight ± Morris.
I would trade McGee, Cook, and #28 for him. I'd give some pause though if we'd need to include a rotational player though in the end you'd need to clear up the glut at guard anyway. |
Here's the difference between Teague and DJ (though I disagree about either guy not being enough).
Don't have to trade for them. They're just FA pick ups.
McGee, Cook, #28 for Rose and Detroit hangs up. They have a new GM, and he has something to prove. Can't just make a move like that and keep a job.
Troy Weaver spent 12 seasons with OKC. He wants salary dumps AND young prospects. |
Do I think DET agrees? No. Could LA use someone like Rose? Absolutely as it's a mistake to ride Lebron as much as we did for another full regular season under less extenuating circumstances.
I just have a tough time believing we can meet all our offseason goals (wing defender, secondary creator, re-sign Dwight ± Morris) with just the exceptions. It's probably ambitious but I think if it is to be achieved it would probably require a trade. |
My guess is we won't be able to check off all those goals because we don't have the trade assets to accomplish them. My opinion is that Kuz, THT and the 28th pick are not as highly valued around the league as Lakers fans think.
I think the team next season will not be significantly different from the team this season. |
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Jesusdelonla
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Joined: 24 Jan 2018
Posts: 15430
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | I’d like to get guys that make the regular season easier on Lebron and AD. If Rondo is checked out during regular season, we need another initiator. |
yeah i agree with this... |
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epic_
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2020
Posts: 11310
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | epic_ wrote: | | defense wrote: | | epic_ wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Why trade for Rose when Rondo (I can't believe it myself) has been perfectly adequate as a backup PG? |
Cuz regular season Rondo can't/doesn't exert the effort that playoff Rondo can/does. And he's prone to injury. Having a guy for the regular season would help imo. |
Not really a problem if we still have Caruso, Bradley, Cook and Legramps |
I mean. Alex and Avery and Cook are not good ball handlers imo.
And would you want the guy u label as "Gramps" to handle all season?
Btw, I'm not saying I want Rose. But a ball handling guard as insurance seems like a good idea. |
Trying to get a handle on what you are trying to gain. A starter or a role player?
I absolutely want to see a ball handler added. If a starter then I get the trade for a player that can give 25+ mpg. A defender, PG playmaker and an occassional 3pt threat all wrapped into one is going to take a trade. Not sure if that is Rose.
If a role player to fill in when James is out for 15mpg then I prefer they either bring in a free agent at a reasonable price or keep the #28 and draft a PG. Get some youth into the lineup for the regular season.
As it stands now the Lakers will have Rondo, Bradley, Quinn and Caruso capable at the PG position for the long 82 game season. Add a rookie with potential that can be mentored by Rondo.
Better long term investment then Rose for a year or two. IMO |
As starters next to Lebron, I actually like the prototypes we're using, i.e. KCP + Green. One point of attack guard on defense who can hit 3s. And a little bigger guard who can play team defense and hit 3s. I think this works when Lebron is the main ball handler.
In this situation, it would be ideal if the guard could also handle, make plays and finish at the rim. Alex does that, but his jumper has gone missing. I imagine a player who can do all these things would cost over $15M a year 
The situation I wanted to address more was the backup guard to take ball handling duties from Lebron. This is whether Lebron sits, or to take the burden off Lebron while he's in the game. Plainly put, the role that Rondo is currently playing.
I don't want to lean on Rondo for a full season especially with his age and injury history. I also am weary of Alex having nagging injuries throughout the regular season as well. I want them fresh for the post season.
Again, I don't trust Alex, Avery, KCP, Quinn, Green w/ ball handling duties. Now maybe THT becomes the guy. That's something I would love to see happen actually.
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defense
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Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 39532
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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-I am not opposed to a "ball handler"
-I am not opposed to trying to get better
-I just don't see how getting Rose make us better and trading players that
contributed this season for him is insane to me.
-I know LG can be trade happy, but come on... at least propose trades that
would make us better. |
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Mike@LG
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Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| PlantedTanks wrote: | | RI Laker wrote: | | NO D = NO LAKERS |
Vogel says +1 |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| defense wrote: | -I am not opposed to a "ball handler"
-I am not opposed to trying to get better
-I just don't see how getting Rose make us better and trading players that
contributed this season for him is insane to me.
-I know LG can be trade happy, but come on... at least propose trades that
would make us better. |
To me, it is seems this forum is mostly about fantacizing that other teams will send us stars or very good players for our minor assets.
If you showed most of these trade proposals here to a group of people, I don't think they'd have trouble identifying that they were created by Lakers fans rather than the fans of the team on the other side of the trade. |
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Jesusdelonla
Franchise Player
Joined: 24 Jan 2018
Posts: 15430
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | defense wrote: | -I am not opposed to a "ball handler"
-I am not opposed to trying to get better
-I just don't see how getting Rose make us better and trading players that
contributed this season for him is insane to me.
-I know LG can be trade happy, but come on... at least propose trades that
would make us better. |
To me, it is seems this forum is mostly about fantacizing that other teams will send us stars or very good players for our minor assets.
If you showed most of these trade proposals here to a group of people, I don't think they'd have trouble identifying that they were created by Lakers fans rather than the fans of the team on the other side of the trade. |
Lol there is a reason this site is called lakersground |
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epic_
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2020
Posts: 11310
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| defense wrote: | -I am not opposed to a "ball handler"
-I am not opposed to trying to get better
-I just don't see how getting Rose make us better and trading players that
contributed this season for him is insane to me.
-I know LG can be trade happy, but come on... at least propose trades that
would make us better. |
Although I do recall people wanted Rose during the season.
Glad it didn't happen, captain.
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gng930
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 11476
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: |
To me, it is seems this forum is mostly about fantacizing that other teams will send us stars or very good players for our minor assets.
If you showed most of these trade proposals here to a group of people, I don't think they'd have trouble identifying that they were created by Lakers fans rather than the fans of the team on the other side of the trade. |
In 2017, in the midst of a rebuild, we were grateful to get a late 1st rounder for our excellent bench scorer (Lou Williams). And in contrast to Rose, Lou was younger, had no injury baggage, and more time remaining on a value contract.
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PlantedTanks
Star Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2017
Posts: 3156
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | defense wrote: | -I am not opposed to a "ball handler"
-I am not opposed to trying to get better
-I just don't see how getting Rose make us better and trading players that
contributed this season for him is insane to me.
-I know LG can be trade happy, but come on... at least propose trades that
would make us better. |
To me, it is seems this forum is mostly about fantacizing that other teams will send us stars or very good players for our minor assets.
If you showed most of these trade proposals here to a group of people, I don't think they'd have trouble identifying that they were created by Lakers fans rather than the fans of the team on the other side of the trade. |
Not saying your wrong but isn't this true of all fan bases? Replace Lakers with TeamX and the proposed trades of their players and you lol at them. Part of being a fan.
Beyond numbers need to consider injuries, defense, roles, team chemistry, team systems, contract $ and the list goes on..
Is relationships important? I believe most definitely. Do Lakers upset Klutch by trading away THT? |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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| gng930 wrote: | | activeverb wrote: |
To me, it is seems this forum is mostly about fantacizing that other teams will send us stars or very good players for our minor assets.
If you showed most of these trade proposals here to a group of people, I don't think they'd have trouble identifying that they were created by Lakers fans rather than the fans of the team on the other side of the trade. |
In 2017, in the midst of a rebuild, we were grateful to get a late 1st rounder for our excellent bench scorer (Lou Williams). And in contrast to Rose, Lou was younger, had no injury baggage, and more time remaining on a value contract. |
I'll believe that we can turn the 28th pick and expiring contracts into a valuable player when it happens. I don't think it will. |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| PlantedTanks wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | defense wrote: | -I am not opposed to a "ball handler"
-I am not opposed to trying to get better
-I just don't see how getting Rose make us better and trading players that
contributed this season for him is insane to me.
-I know LG can be trade happy, but come on... at least propose trades that
would make us better. |
To me, it is seems this forum is mostly about fantacizing that other teams will send us stars or very good players for our minor assets.
If you showed most of these trade proposals here to a group of people, I don't think they'd have trouble identifying that they were created by Lakers fans rather than the fans of the team on the other side of the trade. |
Not saying your wrong but isn't this true of all fan bases? Replace Lakers with TeamX and the proposed trades of their players and you lol at them. Part of being a fan.
Beyond numbers need to consider injuries, defense, roles, team chemistry, team systems, contract $ and the list goes on..
Is relationships important? I believe most definitely. Do Lakers upset Klutch by trading away THT? |
Sure. I was responding to the comment that people aren't suggesting reasonable or realistic trades. That's not what this forum is for. It's fans natural longing to get something for nothing. No different than people imagining that a ton of good players will sign here for the minimum. |
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dcarter4kobe
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Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 17678
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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C.Wood/Banyes/Favors/Millsap/Gasol/Noel/WCS/Meyers Leonard/Harry Giles/Dragan Bender
Moe Harkless/J.Holiday/Jeff Green/Jae Crowder/Derrick Jones/RHJ/MKG/Korver/Bazemore/Juan Hernangomez/J.Ennis/GRlll/Josh Jackson/DeMarre Carroll
Jordan Clarkson, Jeff Teague, DJ Augustin, Malik Beasley,Napier, Galloway, McRae, Burke, McLlauglin
Plenty of solid targets for our expected limited roster turn over
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PlantedTanks
Star Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2017
Posts: 3156
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| dcarter4kobe wrote: | C.Wood/Banyes/Favors/Millsap/Gasol/Noel/WCS/Meyers Leonard/Harry Giles/Dragan Bender
Moe Harkless/J.Holiday/Jeff Green/Jae Crowder/Derrick Jones/RHJ/MKG/Korver/Bazemore/Juan Hernangomez/J.Ennis/GRlll/Josh Jackson/DeMarre Carroll
Jordan Clarkson, Jeff Teague, DJ Augustin, Malik Beasley,Napier, Galloway, McRae, Burke, McLlauglin
Plenty of solid targets for our expected limited roster turn over |
Nice list. Thanks for doing this.
Narrowing down to my favs is
Milsap, Gasol, Baynes, Harkless, Holiday, DJ Augustin
Would take a flyer on Jackson if he convinces Laker brass of his maturity.
All 1 year deals. |
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blackmamba08
Star Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2015
Posts: 2608
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Baynes, Harkless and DJ Augustin and Jeff Green would be my top targets. Meyers Leonard would be good addition also. |
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ChickenStu
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Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 31919
Location: Anaheim, CA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:47 am Post subject: |
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Totally co-sign with those who have soured on Rose. The fact is that we shouldn't be giving up what little assets we have for a player who wouldn't even be an improvement on Playoff Rondo in the playoffs. We can just try to find a Trey Burke-type for cheap if it came to it for a little offense in the regular season. Shouldn't give up assets to find that player. Either sign one for super cheap, or use some or all of the MLE (I'd favor that for a wing or a stretch big, however).
And as others have pointed out, guys who play no defense aren't really a fit here on Vogel's squad, which is why Daniels and Cook hardly saw the floor this year. Even Rondo has turned it up in the playoffs on that end, though he's still not great there. Guys like that are unplayable in crunch time in the playoffs against good teams. They just get hunted relentlessly, like Lou-Will. Mike Trudell said he valued Caruso more than Lou-Will during the season and he got trolled by many. He was right. Which one is more valuable during crunch time of a playoff game? |
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leking006
Star Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2018
Posts: 6385
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:18 am Post subject: |
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| I'll be contented if they sign these 3 : Cousins, Millsap(vet min), Harkless... |
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Dr. Laker
Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17108
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:54 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | gng930 wrote: | | activeverb wrote: |
To me, it is seems this forum is mostly about fantacizing that other teams will send us stars or very good players for our minor assets.
If you showed most of these trade proposals here to a group of people, I don't think they'd have trouble identifying that they were created by Lakers fans rather than the fans of the team on the other side of the trade. |
In 2017, in the midst of a rebuild, we were grateful to get a late 1st rounder for our excellent bench scorer (Lou Williams). And in contrast to Rose, Lou was younger, had no injury baggage, and more time remaining on a value contract. |
I'll believe that we can turn the 28th pick and expiring contracts into a valuable player when it happens. I don't think it will. |
1981 - Lakers acquire Bob McAdoo for a late #2
1987 - Lakers acquire Mychal Thompson for Brickowski, Gudmundsson, the last pick of the 1st round and a future #2.
1992 - Lakers acquire Sedale Threatt for three 2nd round picks.
1994 - Lakers acquire Cedric Ceballos for the 21st pick in the draft.
1997 - Rick Fox turns down 3 yrs/$45 million from CLE to take 3 yrs/$3 million from the Lakers.
2001 - Lakers acquire Lindsey Hunter for Greg Foster.
2003 - Gary Payton takes 65% pay cut to sign with Lakers.
2003 - Karl Malone takes 94% pay cut to sign with Lakers.
2007 - Lakers acquire Trevor Ariza for Brian Cook & Maurice Evans.
2008 - Lakers acquire Pau Gasol for Kwame, J-Critt, Marc Gasol, a late #1 and a future late #1.
2009 - Lakers acquire Shannon Brown & Adam Morrison for Vlad Radmanovic.
2009 - Lakers sign MWP for the Mid-level Exception.
2018 - Lakers sign JaVale McGee for the minimum.
2018 - Lakers sign Rajon Rondo for the minimum.
There are always useful players available at a discount, and occasionally really good players are moved at a modest price.
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On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns". |
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danzag
Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
Posts: 22375
Location: Brazil
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:00 am Post subject: |
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| dcarter4kobe wrote: | C.Wood/Banyes/Favors/Millsap/Gasol/Noel/WCS/Meyers Leonard/Harry Giles/Dragan Bender
Moe Harkless/J.Holiday/Jeff Green/Jae Crowder/Derrick Jones/RHJ/MKG/Korver/Bazemore/Juan Hernangomez/J.Ennis/GRlll/Josh Jackson/DeMarre Carroll
Jordan Clarkson, Jeff Teague, DJ Augustin, Malik Beasley,Napier, Galloway, McRae, Burke, McLlauglin
Plenty of solid targets for our expected limited roster turn over |
I like this list. |
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ocho
Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 53835
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Former Clippers coach Doc Rivers will meet with the 76ers in the Philadelphia area, sources tell @TheAthleticNBA @Stadium. |
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Jesusdelonla
Franchise Player
Joined: 24 Jan 2018
Posts: 15430
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:43 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | Former Clippers coach Doc Rivers will meet with the 76ers in the Philadelphia area, sources tell @TheAthleticNBA @Stadium. |
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Ya he is getting that job. Maybe he can then trade for Lou and sign montrez😂 |
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epic_
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2020
Posts: 11310
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | Former Clippers coach Doc Rivers will meet with the 76ers in the Philadelphia area, sources tell @TheAthleticNBA @Stadium. |
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Nice. Make it happen, capt'n.
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