How good would this team be with LeBron + the full young core intact? (But no AD).
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge Reply to topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  

How far would they have made it?
Championship
4%
 4%  [ 2 ]
Lost in finals
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Lost in WCF
13%
 13%  [ 6 ]
Lost in semis
31%
 31%  [ 14 ]
Lost in first round
22%
 22%  [ 10 ]
Missed playoffs
27%
 27%  [ 12 ]
Total Votes : 44

Author Message
CandyCanes
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 24 Dec 2007
Posts: 35750
Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 4:27 pm    Post subject: How good would this team be with LeBron + the full young core intact? (But no AD).

Let's assume we never signed MozDeng and were able to keep all of our young prospects, and never traded for AD. So:

PG: Ball
SG: Russell
SF: Ingram
PF: LeBron
C: Randle/Zubac

Bench: Randle/Zubac, Clarkson, Hart, Kuzma, Thomas Bryant
_________________
Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
2019
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 03 Dec 2014
Posts: 10786

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 4:57 pm    Post subject:

Assuming we never lost any of our young players, That roster should be good enough to make the WCF (at best) but never win a ring.. would take too long for the rest of the young kids to turn into championship winning cable players.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
kikanga
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29150
Location: La La Land

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 5:36 pm    Post subject:

The coach matters to the extent of playoff seeding. Probably don't want Vogel for this roster. The lack of defense is a bad fit for his coaching philosophy.
But I don't see the squad beating the Clippers or Bucks no matter who the coach is.
_________________
"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
SuperboyReformed
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Posts: 4083

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:11 pm    Post subject:

let me tell you guys something that I think goes completely unappreciated in our discussions here....


AD is our best player. It's not lebron. Lebron has trouble playing the facilitator role, and he covers it up by trying to get 10+ assists. In his efforts to get 10+ assists, he is preventing ANYNONE else from making any significant decisions on the team. As a result, it seems like AD is just a regular role player, along the lines of a samaki walker or Odom to a degree...although I don't like the ODom analogy. Maybe Pau, but I don't like that either.


Now, I've heard people say that AD is not capable of being the star player. But I don't think that's true.

THe idea that we will win a championship without AD is crazy. It's more likely we can win a ring without LBJ. But the only problem there is that LBJ will get calls and other things in his favor that are very important in a ring run. He has the ball in his hands a lot. AD does not. AD can only react to what LBJ gives him.

Earlier in the season, whoever was writing the game recaps....he mentioned that AD is more an MVP of the league than GIannis, and I agree. AD is exquisitely skilled and capable. So the problem is lebron requires too much ballhandling and time with the ball in his hands.

I don't think this will ever be "fixed". As a result, I feel most fans are going to see AD as a failed experiment as the 2nd star on this team. But it's only because we are doing this style where lebron needs to get 10+ assists.

AD is very talented, and we are wasting him. Furthermore, our strategy should be trying to overwhelm teams with the AD-Dwite-mcG combo, not with lebron trying to get 10+ assists.

Vogel said they focused over the break on certain things. Let's hope it involves maximizing our strengths, not our weaknesses. But i doubt it, because the only way that happens is if lebron sacrifices his target stat numbers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
defense
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 39317

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:53 pm    Post subject:

Although i miss Lonzo's unselfish play, i don't miss sucking.

I say no chance at a championship and that's really all that matters
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Lakeshow323
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 1275
Location: LA

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:47 pm    Post subject:

Fighting for 8th, and thats assuming good health.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
2019
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 03 Dec 2014
Posts: 10786

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:50 pm    Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:
let me tell you guys something that I think goes completely unappreciated in our discussions here....


AD is our best player. It's not lebron. Lebron has trouble playing the facilitator role, and he covers it up by trying to get 10+ assists. In his efforts to get 10+ assists, he is preventing ANYNONE else from making any significant decisions on the team. As a result, it seems like AD is just a regular role player, along the lines of a samaki walker or Odom to a degree...although I don't like the ODom analogy. Maybe Pau, but I don't like that either.


Now, I've heard people say that AD is not capable of being the star player. But I don't think that's true.

THe idea that we will win a championship without AD is crazy. It's more likely we can win a ring without LBJ. But the only problem there is that LBJ will get calls and other things in his favor that are very important in a ring run. He has the ball in his hands a lot. AD does not. AD can only react to what LBJ gives him.

Earlier in the season, whoever was writing the game recaps....he mentioned that AD is more an MVP of the league than GIannis, and I agree. AD is exquisitely skilled and capable. So the problem is lebron requires too much ballhandling and time with the ball in his hands.

I don't think this will ever be "fixed". As a result, I feel most fans are going to see AD as a failed experiment as the 2nd star on this team. But it's only because we are doing this style where lebron needs to get 10+ assists.

AD is very talented, and we are wasting him. Furthermore, our strategy should be trying to overwhelm teams with the AD-Dwite-mcG combo, not with lebron trying to get 10+ assists.

Vogel said they focused over the break on certain things. Let's hope it involves maximizing our strengths, not our weaknesses. But i doubt it, because the only way that happens is if lebron sacrifices his target stat numbers.


LeBron has trouble playing the facilitator role? AD is being used as a role player? We should be running Dwight, McGee, and AD together?

I know it's been awhile since we've watched basketball but I have no idea what you're talking about and why you're thinking that way.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
SuperboyReformed
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Posts: 4083

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:07 pm    Post subject:

When Lebron and AD are on the court this is what happens:

Lebron dribbles the ball at the top of the arc until the shot clock is well below 15s. Often 10s or less.

He *may* pass the ball to AD after trying to drive. AD catches the ball around the arc, on the sides. Now AD has 5s to do something. If the defender is squared up on him, he probably will be forced to shoot a long jumper.

This is a waste of AD. The same is true for anyone else. The problem is that lebron wasted 10-15s just dribbling the ball at the top of the arc.

AD is best suited to do some damage around 10-15 feet around the rim. But lbj will not get 10+ assists if that is the goal. This means we are not playing to our strengths, and instead, we are playing in a way to get lebron 10+ assists. This is not ideali for winning a ring.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
CandyCanes
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 24 Dec 2007
Posts: 35750
Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:25 pm    Post subject:

Lakeshow323 wrote:
Fighting for 8th, and thats assuming good health.


With LeBron + two all-stars in Ingram and Russell?
_________________
Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
TheBlackMamba
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 9057

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:16 pm    Post subject:

Not sure if that team could defend anybody, but they'd be great offensively - so probably #4-5 seed.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
BigBallerBrand
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 5785
Location: LA

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:20 pm    Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:
let me tell you guys something that I think goes completely unappreciated in our discussions here....


AD is our best player. It's not lebron. Lebron has trouble playing the facilitator role, and he covers it up by trying to get 10+ assists. In his efforts to get 10+ assists, he is preventing ANYNONE else from making any significant decisions on the team. As a result, it seems like AD is just a regular role player, along the lines of a samaki walker or Odom to a degree...although I don't like the ODom analogy. Maybe Pau, but I don't like that either.


Now, I've heard people say that AD is not capable of being the star player. But I don't think that's true.

THe idea that we will win a championship without AD is crazy. It's more likely we can win a ring without LBJ. But the only problem there is that LBJ will get calls and other things in his favor that are very important in a ring run. He has the ball in his hands a lot. AD does not. AD can only react to what LBJ gives him.

Earlier in the season, whoever was writing the game recaps....he mentioned that AD is more an MVP of the league than GIannis, and I agree. AD is exquisitely skilled and capable. So the problem is lebron requires too much ballhandling and time with the ball in his hands.

I don't think this will ever be "fixed". As a result, I feel most fans are going to see AD as a failed experiment as the 2nd star on this team. But it's only because we are doing this style where lebron needs to get 10+ assists.

AD is very talented, and we are wasting him. Furthermore, our strategy should be trying to overwhelm teams with the AD-Dwite-mcG combo, not with lebron trying to get 10+ assists.

Vogel said they focused over the break on certain things. Let's hope it involves maximizing our strengths, not our weaknesses. But i doubt it, because the only way that happens is if lebron sacrifices his target stat numbers.



One of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. No one on LG thinks AD is a role player. Everyone knows he is a top 5 player in the league
_________________
Billions Billions Billions
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
JUST-MING
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 43950

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:38 pm    Post subject:

I’m fairly certain the only reason Lebron came to LA is because they had an agreement to trade the kids for Anthony. That’s sort of been Lebron’s M.O. this decade with each of his super teams. He signed with Miami when they had Bosh. He signed with Cleveland when they had Love. He signed with LA when they had Davis. Not to mention none of the kids fit his play style.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
fansincemagic
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 11048

PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:43 am    Post subject:

BigBallerBrand wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
let me tell you guys something that I think goes completely unappreciated in our discussions here....


AD is our best player. It's not lebron. Lebron has trouble playing the facilitator role, and he covers it up by trying to get 10+ assists. In his efforts to get 10+ assists, he is preventing ANYNONE else from making any significant decisions on the team. As a result, it seems like AD is just a regular role player, along the lines of a samaki walker or Odom to a degree...although I don't like the ODom analogy. Maybe Pau, but I don't like that either.


Now, I've heard people say that AD is not capable of being the star player. But I don't think that's true.

THe idea that we will win a championship without AD is crazy. It's more likely we can win a ring without LBJ. But the only problem there is that LBJ will get calls and other things in his favor that are very important in a ring run. He has the ball in his hands a lot. AD does not. AD can only react to what LBJ gives him.

Earlier in the season, whoever was writing the game recaps....he mentioned that AD is more an MVP of the league than GIannis, and I agree. AD is exquisitely skilled and capable. So the problem is lebron requires too much ballhandling and time with the ball in his hands.

I don't think this will ever be "fixed". As a result, I feel most fans are going to see AD as a failed experiment as the 2nd star on this team. But it's only because we are doing this style where lebron needs to get 10+ assists.

AD is very talented, and we are wasting him. Furthermore, our strategy should be trying to overwhelm teams with the AD-Dwite-mcG combo, not with lebron trying to get 10+ assists.

Vogel said they focused over the break on certain things. Let's hope it involves maximizing our strengths, not our weaknesses. But i doubt it, because the only way that happens is if lebron sacrifices his target stat numbers.



One of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. No one on LG thinks AD is a role player. Everyone knows he is a top 5 player in the league


Yeah that's one big uni-brow havin straw man right there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Four Decade Bandwagon
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Posts: 8127

PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:34 am    Post subject:

You forgot to include Nance for the bench and last year’s # 4 pick to your proposed roster.

And which James are we discussing, last years disinterested or this year’s MVP candidate? That would impact how far that team would go in the playoffs.

Just to add another thought, imagine that young core of players and adding Davis as a free agent. Now that would intrigue me. With or without James.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
lakerican
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 3780

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:16 am    Post subject:

No playoffs the same way like last year. That team is severely undersized and will be punished by every team. Also, will play Lebron Ball the last 9 minutes of the game, again like last year.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Bard207
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 7713

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:04 am    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
Lakeshow323 wrote:
Fighting for 8th, and thats assuming good health.


With LeBron + two all-stars in Ingram and Russell?



Not sure if Russell would be voted in as a Western Conference All Star on merit.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Inspector Gadget
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46490

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:14 am    Post subject:

A team with LeBron + the kids would be making runs at the WCFs which is a exciting goal but I’m fine with our current roster as long as the FO retools the roster with nice signings/trades every off season we will be contending for titles for years to come.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
danzag
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 28 Apr 2013
Posts: 22244
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:24 am    Post subject:

Western semi finals or so
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Inspector Gadget
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46490

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:30 am    Post subject:

danzag wrote:
Western semi finals or so


Depends how well guys like DLO and Ingram played but I think they could have made runs at the WCF.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
activeverb
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:47 am    Post subject:

Bard207 wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Lakeshow323 wrote:
Fighting for 8th, and thats assuming good health.


With LeBron + two all-stars in Ingram and Russell?



Not sure if Russell would be voted in as a Western Conference All Star on merit.


Yeah, Russell is a borderline all-star who probably wouldn't have made an all-star team as the second or third banana on the Lakers.

We can only guess how Ingram would have developed in difference circumstances.

Lot of what-ifs and guesses to this one.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
PHILosophize
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Posts: 10758

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:57 am    Post subject:

WCF ceiling type of team, more likely a 2nd round exit
_________________
one dog goes that way the other dog goes the other way
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Dr. Laker
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17065

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:58 am    Post subject: Re: How good would this team be with LeBron + the full young core intact? (But no AD).

CandyCanes wrote:
Let's assume we never signed MozDeng and were able to keep all of our young prospects, and never traded for AD. So:


1 - can't have Kuz & Russell together because they were traded for each other (plus Mozgov, too), so the question is flawed.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kuzmaky01.html

Quote:
June 22, 2017: Traded by the Brooklyn Nets with Brook Lopez to the Los Angeles Lakers for Timofey Mozgov and D'Angelo Russell.

_________________
On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
CandyCanes
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 24 Dec 2007
Posts: 35750
Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:36 am    Post subject: Re: How good would this team be with LeBron + the full young core intact? (But no AD).

Dr. Laker wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Let's assume we never signed MozDeng and were able to keep all of our young prospects, and never traded for AD. So:


1 - can't have Kuz & Russell together because they were traded for each other (plus Mozgov, too), so the question is flawed.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kuzmaky01.html

Quote:
June 22, 2017: Traded by the Brooklyn Nets with Brook Lopez to the Los Angeles Lakers for Timofey Mozgov and D'Angelo Russell.


Well, we could have used the pick we used on Hart on Kuzma instead. So I guess we wouldn’t have Hart.
_________________
Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
CandyCanes
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 24 Dec 2007
Posts: 35750
Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:37 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
Bard207 wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Lakeshow323 wrote:
Fighting for 8th, and thats assuming good health.


With LeBron + two all-stars in Ingram and Russell?



Not sure if Russell would be voted in as a Western Conference All Star on merit.


Yeah, Russell is a borderline all-star who probably wouldn't have made an all-star team as the second or third banana on the Lakers.

We can only guess how Ingram would have developed in difference circumstances.

Lot of what-ifs and guesses to this one.


Do you think the Pelicans would have accepted a package of Ball, Ingram, and Randle instead at the trade deadline of last season? That would have gotten us AD a season earlier and left us with Russell as the third option.
_________________
Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
Dr. Laker
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17065

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:21 pm    Post subject: Re: How good would this team be with LeBron + the full young core intact? (But no AD).

CandyCanes wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Let's assume we never signed MozDeng and were able to keep all of our young prospects, and never traded for AD. So:


1 - can't have Kuz & Russell together because they were traded for each other (plus Mozgov, too), so the question is flawed.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kuzmaky01.html

Quote:
June 22, 2017: Traded by the Brooklyn Nets with Brook Lopez to the Los Angeles Lakers for Timofey Mozgov and D'Angelo Russell.


Well, we could have used the pick we used on Hart on Kuzma instead. So I guess we wouldn’t have Hart.


Abstract it out more . . . without MozDeng, maybe we keep LouWill instead of trading him for the pick that turned into Hart.
_________________
On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3
Jump to:  

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum






Graphics by uberzev
© 1995-2018 LakersGround.net. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy. Terms of Use.
LakersGround is an unofficial news source serving the fan community since 1995.
We are in no way associated with the Los Angeles Lakers or the National Basketball Association.


Powered by phpBB