Lakers almost acquired Penny Hardaway prior to 2000 season
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madsen35
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:02 pm    Post subject: Lakers almost acquired Penny Hardaway prior to 2000 season

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1999-jul-21-sp-58169-story.html

I was only 10 when this happened, so I never heard about this. Penny wanted to come to LA and reunite with Shaq. The Lakers almost traded Rice for Penny. I wonder if the team still would have won the title. Not sure it would have worked with Penny and Kobe.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:15 pm    Post subject:

Backcourt 2000
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:24 pm    Post subject:

Interesting find.

From what I recall, I was always against acquiring Penny mainly because it seemed like the Penny Hardaway rumors (whether it was between LAL and ORL, or LAL and PHO) always centered around Kobe. Thank goodness for Jerry West that those didn’t happen, as others within the organization would’ve probably pulled the trigger.

I guess it would’ve made sense if it was involving Rice in hindsight. It would’ve been damaged goods for other damaged goods because injuries had robbed both players of their better days by then, but not sure if Orlando would’ve ultimately considered that.

From what I remember, teams like Phoenix still had hopes of reviving the old Penny Hardaway. But it’s always been that way with players with chronic and/or catastrophic injuries. Orlando convinced themselves of Grant Hill, Phoenix convinced themselves of Penny, etc. Philadelphia did it with Webber/Brand/Bynum within less than a decade. Time will only tell, but it could also end up being that way for Brooklyn/Durant.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:40 pm    Post subject:

j-dawg wrote:
Interesting find.

From what I recall, I was always against acquiring Penny mainly because it seemed like the Penny Hardaway rumors (whether it was between LAL and ORL, or LAL and PHO) always centered around Kobe. Thank goodness for Jerry West that those didn’t happen, as others within the organization would’ve probably pulled the trigger.

I guess it would’ve made sense if it was involving Rice in hindsight. It would’ve been damaged goods for other damaged goods because injuries had robbed both players of their better days by then, but not sure if Orlando would’ve ultimately considered that.

From what I remember, teams like Phoenix still had hopes of reviving the old Penny Hardaway. But it’s always been that way with players with chronic and/or catastrophic injuries. Orlando convinced themselves of Grant Hill, Phoenix convinced themselves of Penny, etc. Philadelphia did it with Webber/Brand/Bynum within less than a decade. Time will only tell, but it could also end up being that way for Brooklyn/Durant.


Penny was no longer Penny by then. Penny was also making $10 million bucks. Dr. Buss was trading out salaries, not bringing in salaries.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:51 pm    Post subject:

First time hearing about this thanks for sharing madsen35.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Lakers almost acquired Penny Hardaway prior to 2000 season

madsen35 wrote:
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1999-jul-21-sp-58169-story.html

I was only 10 when this happened, so I never heard about this. Penny wanted to come to LA and reunite with Shaq. The Lakers almost traded Rice for Penny. I wonder if the team still would have won the title. Not sure it would have worked with Penny and Kobe.



Anyone's guess how close this trade actually came to happening. In any case, good thing for us it didn't considering Penny was soon thrashed by injuries.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Lakers almost acquired Penny Hardaway prior to 2000 season

madsen35 wrote:
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1999-jul-21-sp-58169-story.html

I was only 10 when this happened, so I never heard about this. Penny wanted to come to LA and reunite with Shaq. The Lakers almost traded Rice for Penny. I wonder if the team still would have won the title. Not sure it would have worked with Penny and Kobe.


I thought he and Shaq didn’t get along.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Lakers almost acquired Penny Hardaway prior to 2000 season

CandyCanes wrote:
madsen35 wrote:
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1999-jul-21-sp-58169-story.html

I was only 10 when this happened, so I never heard about this. Penny wanted to come to LA and reunite with Shaq. The Lakers almost traded Rice for Penny. I wonder if the team still would have won the title. Not sure it would have worked with Penny and Kobe.


I thought he and Shaq didn’t get along.


They didn't and come to think of it still don't I notice that Shaq seems semi cool with Wade and eventually Kobe but Penny he never buried that hatchet.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Lakers almost acquired Penny Hardaway prior to 2000 season

Basketball Fan wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
madsen35 wrote:
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1999-jul-21-sp-58169-story.html

I was only 10 when this happened, so I never heard about this. Penny wanted to come to LA and reunite with Shaq. The Lakers almost traded Rice for Penny. I wonder if the team still would have won the title. Not sure it would have worked with Penny and Kobe.


I thought he and Shaq didn’t get along.


They didn't and come to think of it still don't I notice that Shaq seems semi cool with Wade and eventually Kobe but Penny he never buried that hatchet.


Interesting stuff, I thought I remember Shaq calling Penny his little brother but perhaps he was referring to Wade.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Lakers almost acquired Penny Hardaway prior to 2000 season

Basketball Fan wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
madsen35 wrote:
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1999-jul-21-sp-58169-story.html

I was only 10 when this happened, so I never heard about this. Penny wanted to come to LA and reunite with Shaq. The Lakers almost traded Rice for Penny. I wonder if the team still would have won the title. Not sure it would have worked with Penny and Kobe.


I thought he and Shaq didn’t get along.


They didn't and come to think of it still don't I notice that Shaq seems semi cool with Wade and eventually Kobe but Penny he never buried that hatchet.


Didn't Shaq and Penny play together on the Heat, in 2007 I believe?
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Lakers almost acquired Penny Hardaway prior to 2000 season

Basketball Fan wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
madsen35 wrote:
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1999-jul-21-sp-58169-story.html

I was only 10 when this happened, so I never heard about this. Penny wanted to come to LA and reunite with Shaq. The Lakers almost traded Rice for Penny. I wonder if the team still would have won the title. Not sure it would have worked with Penny and Kobe.


I thought he and Shaq didn’t get along.


They didn't and come to think of it still don't I notice that Shaq seems semi cool with Wade and eventually Kobe but Penny he never buried that hatchet.


Yes they did. Shaq and Penny had some 30 for 30 or something like that a few years ago.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:30 pm    Post subject:

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt5598194/
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:52 pm    Post subject:

LBJ23 wrote:
https://m.imdb.com/title/tt5598194/


That was a good one
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Lakers almost acquired Penny Hardaway prior to 2000 season

LBJ23 wrote:
Basketball Fan wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
madsen35 wrote:
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1999-jul-21-sp-58169-story.html

I was only 10 when this happened, so I never heard about this. Penny wanted to come to LA and reunite with Shaq. The Lakers almost traded Rice for Penny. I wonder if the team still would have won the title. Not sure it would have worked with Penny and Kobe.


I thought he and Shaq didn’t get along.


They didn't and come to think of it still don't I notice that Shaq seems semi cool with Wade and eventually Kobe but Penny he never buried that hatchet.


This Magic Moment and I watched that one but don't remember the part of them making amends. If so that's cool.
Yes they did. Shaq and Penny had some 30 for 30 or something like that a few years ago.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:52 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
One source said that the Magic is evaluating the potential addition of Rice, who was infuriated when the Lakers picked up their $7-million option on him for the 1999-00 season.


Wow. Would have been a big mistake to give him what he wanted.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:01 pm    Post subject:

Penny did play all 50 games in the 1999 season so at the time I doubt people thought of him as a guy that always got injured. It might have worked out and maybe he would have been healthier playing a smaller role with Shaq and Kobe. But who knows. With the way things played out it’s hard to be disappointed.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:59 pm    Post subject:

Would've been a good fit imo. Penny had more natural PG instincts than Kobe. When you look at Rice's numbers with us they don't look bad, but I remember him just being an awkward fit with the team. Like he never knew when and where his shots would come from. He was just sort of there. No synergy. Penny otoh was more of a ball mover. He would've been happy just taking whatever shots he could get. Plus we all know how Phil loved having a big PG in the triangle.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:23 pm    Post subject:

Steve007 wrote:
Penny did play all 50 games in the 1999 season so at the time I doubt people thought of him as a guy that always got injured. It might have worked out and maybe he would have been healthier playing a smaller role with Shaq and Kobe. But who knows. With the way things played out it’s hard to be disappointed.


Penny tore up his knee in 1997-98. He was not the same player as in his 1st three years. The second injury (99-00) really robbed him of the rest of his mobility. The fact that he remained relatively effective was a testament to his tremendous skill level. The third injury (00-01) basically reduced him to an end of the bench guy.

He'd have been nice in 99-00, but Rice fit a need and the combo of Ron Harper/Brian Shaw gave us what Penny would have, at less than half the salary.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:40 pm    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
Penny did play all 50 games in the 1999 season so at the time I doubt people thought of him as a guy that always got injured. It might have worked out and maybe he would have been healthier playing a smaller role with Shaq and Kobe. But who knows. With the way things played out it’s hard to be disappointed.


Penny tore up his knee in 1997-98. He was not the same player as in his 1st three years. The second injury (99-00) really robbed him of the rest of his mobility. The fact that he remained relatively effective was a testament to his tremendous skill level. The third injury (00-01) basically reduced him to an end of the bench guy.

He'd have been nice in 99-00, but Rice fit a need and the combo of Ron Harper/Brian Shaw gave us what Penny would have, at less than half the salary.


Agreed. I think the Lakers were smart by staying pat. But it is fun to think about how getting Penny would have changed things.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:15 pm    Post subject:

Penny was never the same after his knee injuries, so it was a good thing this apparent potential trade didn’t go through. People rag on Rice, but he was actually a decent player for us for the first championship of the threepeat. Penny was still decent, iirc, but Ron Harper was pretty instrumental for the team as a mentor/teacher of the triangle, iirc, and Penny might have disrupted things by simply requiring the ball more than Harper or Fisher ever did and taking it out of Kobe’s hands for a questionable return at that point in his career.

The woulda-coulda trades that were supposedly really close to going through that are interesting to think about are the aborted Nick Van Exel for Kidd straight up that the Lakers supposedly turned down because when Jerry West asked Del Harris about it, Harris said he preferred Nick the Quick’s three point shooting. Another was a supposed trade West had lined up for Chris Webber (in exchange for Eddie Jones, iirc) after right after Webber got traded to the Kings and was threatening to sit out instead of playing for them. In the end, Webber said his dad called him up and told him to be a man and suck it up and honor his lucrative contract, which ended that. The last was a supposed potential trade for Tracy McGrady. That one I don’t remember the particulars of, but again, supposedly West had it lined up before Toronto pulled out.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:12 pm    Post subject:

I looked at the Penny Hardaway and three draft picks for Chris Webber trade on draft night just now...

https://ballislife.com/how-the-chris-webber-for-penny-hardaway-draft-day-trade-could-have-turned-into-the-most-ridiculous-trade-ever/

Those three picks turned into the #11 pick in the 1996 draft (so could have been used on Kobe or Nash), #5 in 1998 (Vince Carter), and #5 in 2000 (Mike Miller).

Warriors lost Webber after his rookie season. Ouch.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:14 am    Post subject:

I think it’s fair to say that Webber was a major disappointment for many years until he became a Queen. Some would argue that with his physical talent, he could’ve been even better than he was in his prime. Even when you look at his prime years (beyond the numbers that he put up) he didn’t quite have the low post game that some of his perennial All Star peers did.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:55 am    Post subject:

j-dawg wrote:
I think it’s fair to say that Webber was a major disappointment for many years until he became a Queen. Some would argue that with his physical talent, he could’ve been even better than he was in his prime. Even when you look at his prime years (beyond the numbers that he put up) he didn’t quite have the low post game that some of his perennial All Star peers did.


Webber had some injury issues, as well, but his game was multifaceted. He was a great playmaker, shot well from the perimeter, defended his position, etc., and would've fit great next to a post-player at C. His issue in GS was that Don Nelson wanted him as a low post C and CWebb didn't want to bang down low.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:02 am    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:
j-dawg wrote:
I think it’s fair to say that Webber was a major disappointment for many years until he became a Queen. Some would argue that with his physical talent, he could’ve been even better than he was in his prime. Even when you look at his prime years (beyond the numbers that he put up) he didn’t quite have the low post game that some of his perennial All Star peers did.


Webber had some injury issues, as well, but his game was multifaceted. He was a great playmaker, shot well from the perimeter, defended his position, etc., and would've fit great next to a post-player at C. His issue in GS was that Don Nelson wanted him as a low post C and CWebb didn't want to bang down low.

Agreed. Although he abused the likes of Horry/Samaki, he didn’t have a go-to move when the game was on the line. His jump hook (only post move) was fairly effective, but you knew it was coming when he backed you down. When people think of multifaceted PF’s, they often think of KG or Gasol. In that sense, I think Webber is actually underrated because of a lack of mention.

Off topic, but imagine if Washington had kept Webber, Rasheed, and Juwan Howard. Would’ve been a nightmare to coach/control, but imagine a team in, say 2001, with Rasheed in the low post and Webber in the high post.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:16 am    Post subject:

j-dawg wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:
j-dawg wrote:
I think it’s fair to say that Webber was a major disappointment for many years until he became a Queen. Some would argue that with his physical talent, he could’ve been even better than he was in his prime. Even when you look at his prime years (beyond the numbers that he put up) he didn’t quite have the low post game that some of his perennial All Star peers did.


Webber had some injury issues, as well, but his game was multifaceted. He was a great playmaker, shot well from the perimeter, defended his position, etc., and would've fit great next to a post-player at C. His issue in GS was that Don Nelson wanted him as a low post C and CWebb didn't want to bang down low.

Agreed. Although he abused the likes of Horry/Samaki, he didn’t have a go-to move when the game was on the line. His jump hook (only post move) was fairly effective, but you knew it was coming when he backed you down. When people think of multifaceted PF’s, they often think of KG or Gasol. In that sense, I think Webber is actually underrated because of a lack of mention.

Off topic, but imagine if Washington had kept Webber, Rasheed, and Juwan Howard. Would’ve been a nightmare to coach/control, but imagine a team in, say 2001, with Rasheed in the low post and Webber in the high post.


'Sheed was doggone near unstoppable in the 99-00 playoffs. He'd get the ball on the left block, hit that turnaround J off the glass and we literally could not stop him. Thank goodness he got tossed for staring at Ron Garretson in Game 1 of the WCF or we might very well have lost that series.
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