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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:07 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Cardinals chairman Bill DeWitt said that the baseball industry "isn't very profitable." LOL why are they so full of sh*t?!?!


Yeah, not buying that.
MLB teams basically have a monopoly on the local sports market for a couple of months. Because of this they get millions from their local TV market in addition to their national TV deals. Even if nobody shows up to the games they still have a revenue stream. Now take a team with a history like the Cardinals where their only other competition is the NHL and they pretty much have a defacto monopoly on the local sports market.
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:24 pm    Post subject:

Welp, baseball just issued another joke of a proposal that is almost certainly going to be rejected by the MLBPA. It's looking very likely that we're going to have a lame 48-game season with no expanded playoffs.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:46 pm    Post subject:

I wouldn't watch a 48 game season. Especially without all the players. Will feel like an exhibition season to me.
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oasisdude77
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:00 am    Post subject:

48 games would suck. But, hey, at least we’d get to watch Mookie actually play in a dodger uniform

And not sure it’d be a good look for players to sit out (unless, of course they have legitimate injuries) as their entire stance has been ‘we’re ready to play/we just want to play’.

I’m still hopeful they can hammer something out in the next few days, but if not, guess it’s a super short season.

And knowing how things always turn out, this would probably be the year the Dodgers would win it all
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 3:48 pm    Post subject:

MLBPA just rejected the latest proposal and essentially told MLB to impose its season and to let them know by Monday. Basically called the league's proposals a complete waste of time. Which they were.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:37 pm    Post subject:

MLB offers 60-game schedule, full prorated pay
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:00 pm    Post subject:

60 is better than 48.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:55 am    Post subject:

Getting closer, it seems. Unless the players are holding out for something like 80+ games, they can't let the season go over 5-10 games. Just can't let that happen. I think the owners have been disingenuous the whole time, but if they absolutely will not budge off this offer, the players have to accept it. It's 12 more games than the 48-game mandated season would be, they get the universal DH (another starting job for 15 union members), they get expanded playoffs which means more fan interest, since now more fans of more teams will be in the playoff chase, and they got a bump up in potential playoff revenues.

If the players were ready to just play the mandated 48-game season with no DH and no expanded playoffs, I don't see how they can possibly walk away from this, unless they are convinced that they would win a subsequent grievance after the mandated 48-game season. I expect something to get done in the next few days, with maybe a few more games added but nothing more than 70.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:40 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
they get the universal DH (another starting job for 15 union members)


Is a universal DH for the next 2 years really going to benefit the players (as far as increasing team payroll spending)? I have a feeling it won't this year. Teams aren't going to go out and sign DH's. They'll just use whoever they already have on the roster.

It's interesting what impact it'll have next year. For instance, do AL teams spend more on their roster than NL teams since they have to pay for a DH or do they just pay more for the DH and less for some other players?

Also, if it's only for 1 year next year, would an NL team actually sign a DH to a multi year deal?

ChickenStu wrote:
they get expanded playoffs which means more fan interest, since now more fans of more teams will be in the playoff chase


Isn't this a perk for the owners and not for the players? Owners get TV money for the playoffs. Players essentially play for free during the playoffs. It's the owners who are pushing for expanded playoffs in these negotiations and players are using this as a bargaining chip.
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oasisdude77
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:01 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Getting closer, it seems. Unless the players are holding out for something like 80+ games, they can't let the season go over 5-10 games. Just can't let that happen. I think the owners have been disingenuous the whole time, but if they absolutely will not budge off this offer, the players have to accept it. It's 12 more games than the 48-game mandated season would be, they get the universal DH (another starting job for 15 union members), they get expanded playoffs which means more fan interest, since now more fans of more teams will be in the playoff chase, and they got a bump up in potential playoff revenues.

If the players were ready to just play the mandated 48-game season with no DH and no expanded playoffs, I don't see how they can possibly walk away from this, unless they are convinced that they would win a subsequent grievance after the mandated 48-game season. I expect something to get done in the next few days, with maybe a few more games added but nothing more than 70.


I understand if the players want to counter with, possibly, 70 or so and then they settle in the middle for 66. But if they cannot get an agreement from this, this would be a bad look from the players, imo.

The whole, 'tell us when and where' would have basically been a bunch of bull.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:11 pm    Post subject:

oasisdude77 wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Getting closer, it seems. Unless the players are holding out for something like 80+ games, they can't let the season go over 5-10 games. Just can't let that happen. I think the owners have been disingenuous the whole time, but if they absolutely will not budge off this offer, the players have to accept it. It's 12 more games than the 48-game mandated season would be, they get the universal DH (another starting job for 15 union members), they get expanded playoffs which means more fan interest, since now more fans of more teams will be in the playoff chase, and they got a bump up in potential playoff revenues.

If the players were ready to just play the mandated 48-game season with no DH and no expanded playoffs, I don't see how they can possibly walk away from this, unless they are convinced that they would win a subsequent grievance after the mandated 48-game season. I expect something to get done in the next few days, with maybe a few more games added but nothing more than 70.


I understand if the players want to counter with, possibly, 70 or so and then they settle in the middle for 66. But if they cannot get an agreement from this, this would be a bad look from the players, imo.

The whole, 'tell us when and where' would have basically been a bunch of bull.


Players just offered a 70 game season. They are seeking a 50-50 split in 2021's new postseason TV revenues.

Sounds greedy to me and inconsistent with their positions. All this time, they are saying they are against splitting revenue because only leagues with a salary cap split revenue. Also, their main demand was full pro rata pay. Now they want to split revenues with the owners?

Owners are likely to reject this offer but seems that we are inching closer and closer to a 65 game season. I think split of postseason revenues is a deal breaker for the owners, especially since the players demand 100% full pro rata pay.
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:24 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
they get the universal DH (another starting job for 15 union members)


Is a universal DH for the next 2 years really going to benefit the players (as far as increasing team payroll spending)? I have a feeling it won't this year. Teams aren't going to go out and sign DH's. They'll just use whoever they already have on the roster.

It's interesting what impact it'll have next year. For instance, do AL teams spend more on their roster than NL teams since they have to pay for a DH or do they just pay more for the DH and less for some other players?

Also, if it's only for 1 year next year, would an NL team actually sign a DH to a multi year deal?

ChickenStu wrote:
they get expanded playoffs which means more fan interest, since now more fans of more teams will be in the playoff chase


Isn't this a perk for the owners and not for the players? Owners get TV money for the playoffs. Players essentially play for free during the playoffs. It's the owners who are pushing for expanded playoffs in these negotiations and players are using this as a bargaining chip.


Well it is a perk for the owners, yes. I just think that it's good for the fans, in that, if it's going to be a shorter season, might as well have more teams in play for the postseason. Keeps fan interest higher.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:17 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
they get the universal DH (another starting job for 15 union members)


Is a universal DH for the next 2 years really going to benefit the players (as far as increasing team payroll spending)? I have a feeling it won't this year. Teams aren't going to go out and sign DH's. They'll just use whoever they already have on the roster.

It's interesting what impact it'll have next year. For instance, do AL teams spend more on their roster than NL teams since they have to pay for a DH or do they just pay more for the DH and less for some other players?

Also, if it's only for 1 year next year, would an NL team actually sign a DH to a multi year deal?

ChickenStu wrote:
they get expanded playoffs which means more fan interest, since now more fans of more teams will be in the playoff chase


Isn't this a perk for the owners and not for the players? Owners get TV money for the playoffs. Players essentially play for free during the playoffs. It's the owners who are pushing for expanded playoffs in these negotiations and players are using this as a bargaining chip.


Well it is a perk for the owners, yes. I just think that it's good for the fans, in that, if it's going to be a shorter season, might as well have more teams in play for the postseason. Keeps fan interest higher.


Yeah, seems fair for this year. Not so fair for next year.

It waters down a 162 game schedule by letting teams under .500 make the playoffs.

Think about this: mlb used to have only 2 division winners in each league. Then they expanded to 3 division winners and a wild card. Now we’ll have 3 division winners and 5 wild cards!
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:25 pm    Post subject:

^
For next year, if they are going to have 8 teams make the postseason in each league, I might do something like the following. Have the #7 and #8 seeded teams play the Wild Card game, just like now, a 1-game win-or-go-home scenario. The #1 seed gets a bye in the upcoming First round of playoffs. So you have #2 play the Wild Card winner (#7 or #8), #3 play #6, and #4 play #5. Then you have the #1 seed join the postseason in the next round, which is basically where the postseason starts now (after the Wild Card game), the Division Series round. I'd have the #1 seed play whichever team is the "worst" seed remaining, like how the NHL does it.

If you're going to have more teams make it, give a real advantage to the team with the best record in each league. At least, over 162 games. You can't do that this year because there's just not enough days in the calendar.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:45 am    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Players just offered a 70 game season. They are seeking a 50-50 split in 2021's new postseason TV revenues.

Sounds greedy to me and inconsistent with their positions. All this time, they are saying they are against splitting revenue because only leagues with a salary cap split revenue.


Yeah, but don't get the cause & effect backward. If you have an agreement to split revenue, the next question is how you're going to achieve that when the split is achieved with the aggregation of individual contracts, which are negotiated by ~30 independent agencies, sometimes years in advance. One of the functions of the cap is to aim the aggregate salaries at the right number.

When you have an agreement for a revenue split you DO have a cap, because that's how much the players get. Everything after that is just a matter of how you're going to make it work.
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:25 am    Post subject:

If MLB couldn't capitalize on a period there was close to zero sports going on, I don't expect them to agree to much of a season when there is much more competition from other sports like NBA or MLS restarting. Just another case of baseball shooting itself again and going down the totem pole in popularity.
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:16 pm    Post subject:

Apparently, I may have been too optimistic that a bargained deal would get done. Growing sentiment that the players will reject the 60-game proposal and that the league will mandate a 50-60 game season. I guess the logic from the players is that the difference between 50-ish games and 60 isn't worth more than losing their right to a grievance, even when factoring in things like the universal DH being added. Buster Olney's tweet pretty much sums up this situation:


Buster Olney

@Buster_ESPN


The 30 franchises and MLB have a combined value that runs in the neighborhood of $50 billion. And they aren't scraping up another $150 million to at least make an offer into the middle ground and save the product from continued embarrassment.
4:52 PM · Jun 19, 2020·TweetDeck
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:00 pm    Post subject:

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/29334706/phillies-closing-facility-positive-coronavirus-tests

Might be a moot point if the coronavirus takes out training camps....the season will probably get cancelled anyways.
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:30 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Players and MLB are increasingly dismayed with each other and appear headed to a spring training lockout in 2022. Still, they agree on one novelty:

MLB's latest proposal this week include starting extra innings with a runner on second base, and the union's counter-proposal said that would be acceptable for 2020 only, in the event of an agreement.


This is easily going to be the silliest/weirdest mlb season ever.

-60~ game season
-16 playoff teams
-DH in both leagues
-No fans / fake crowd noise?
-Ads on uniforms?
-runner starts on 2nd in extra innings
-3 batter min rule
-30 players on the active roster?

What am I missing?
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:14 am    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Quote:
Players and MLB are increasingly dismayed with each other and appear headed to a spring training lockout in 2022. Still, they agree on one novelty:

MLB's latest proposal this week include starting extra innings with a runner on second base, and the union's counter-proposal said that would be acceptable for 2020 only, in the event of an agreement.


This is easily going to be the silliest/weirdest mlb season ever.

-60~ game season
-16 playoff teams
-DH in both leagues
-No fans / fake crowd noise?
-Ads on uniforms?
-runner starts on 2nd in extra innings
-3 batter min rule
-30 players on the active roster?

What am I missing?



Season gets potentially cancelled because they couldn't agree over a measly 10 games. I hate to say it but the * will have a legitimate meaning for 2020 because the season would be a mere fraction of what a normal MLB season would be. At least with the NBA if they manage to finish it, they completed enough of the season where even with a pandemic it was close enough to a normal NBA season that you can use the excuse of extraordinary outside circumstances to justify the difference. In MLB's case, they were the ones who shot themselves in the foot.
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