Would the Bulls have won in 1999? Scottie thinks they win 2 more.
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 12:37 pm    Post subject: Would the Bulls have won in 1999? Scottie thinks they win 2 more.

In The Last Dance MJ is clearly upset that the Bulls couldn’t stay together and take another shot at a ring in 1999, even calling it “maddening.” He said he felt the team was just as dominant in 1998 as it was in the first championship in 1991.

Back in September Pippen and Rodman were asked how long the team could have kept it going and Pippen thinks they could have won 2 more. His reasoning is the team that gave them the most trouble was Utah, and the Jazz were just as old if not even older than the Bulls.

Rodman said it makes him mad because they had legs for 50 games and they would have gotten a long break to rest before the 1999 season.

Assuming the Bulls kept the team together, it means no Phil Jackson in LA (Kurt Rambis stays as head coach), no Pippen in Portland and I guess no Ron Harper in LA.

How long could the Bulls have kept their run going?
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 12:40 pm    Post subject:

Pippen and Rodman get asked about it at 4:25 in the video (they were asked about this in September).

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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 12:59 pm    Post subject:

They squeaked by an Indiana team in 7 (good chance they would have lost if Jalen wasn't suspended for coming off the bench).

3 peat Lakers would have SHAT all over the Bulls that were running on fumes.
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 2:09 pm    Post subject:

How do they stop Duncan/Robinson or Shaq the year after?

A more interesting question is whether they would have won in 1994 and 1995 if MJ hadn’t retired and been able to win 8 in a row.
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 3:49 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
3 peat Lakers would have SHAT all over the Bulls that were running on fumes.


CandyCanes wrote:
How do they stop Duncan/Robinson or Shaq the year after?


Would the 3 peat Lakers be the same team with Kurt Rambis coaching them instead? In this hypothetical Phil would still be in Chicago. I always thought Phil made a huge difference that year.

Kobe would have turned into Kobe anyway but before Phil the team was still trying to find its way. I think 2000 is harder to predict because maybe even the roster is different without Phil; Rambis or a different coach might have surrounded the stars with different role players. At least in 1999 we know the Spurs made it and we can compare them to the Bulls.

The West in 2000 looks like it would have been between our team without Phil and Portland without Pippen. Indiana was the top seed in the East with the Heat and Knicks possible threats.

The biggest threats in the East in 1999 were the Pacers and Heat and I wouldn’t even count out the Heat agsinst an older Bulls team. I’m not sure the Knicks make the playoffs if Chicago finishes above them in the standings as the Knicks were an 8th seed that year.

Edit: Of course I think the 2000 Lakers with Phil would be way too much for them. When I first heard Scottie say he thought they could win 2 more, I thought that sounded ridiculous. I just think Rambis remaining as the head coach makes things more uncertain.
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 4:05 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
They squeaked by an Indiana team in 7 (good chance they would have lost if Jalen wasn't suspended for coming off the bench)


I’ve seen people discuss the matchup between them and the Spurs but I’m not certain they survive a rematch with the Pacers, especially if the team got worse from being another year older.
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 4:07 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
They squeaked by an Indiana team in 7 (good chance they would have lost if Jalen wasn't suspended for coming off the bench).

3 peat Lakers would have SHAT all over the Bulls that were running on fumes.


Fumes is the right word, the end of the 98 team reminded me a little of the 01 Yankees (lost game 7 to AZ) and 20 Warriors. Bulls had enough to squeeze it out though, imagine if that went to game 7 with an injured Pippen.
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 11:06 pm    Post subject:

Wouldn't have happened since Pippen wanted to get paid. Maybe it would've been close in 1999 but the 2000 Lakers would've taken care of business (assuming Phil would come to LA anyways). People forget how hard it is to keep playing in June every year and win, that team would've ran out of gas.
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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 11:40 am    Post subject:

Naw, no way they beat that SA frontline. They never had to deal with someone like Duncan.
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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 12:15 pm    Post subject:

I'm picking the field over an old Bulls team that barely made it through that '98 Finals series. However, i don't think the Lakers are nearly as dominant without Phil, and they may not have made the Finals until Kobe got older without Phil.
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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 12:56 pm    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
Naw, no way they beat that SA frontline. They never had to deal with someone like Duncan.


They dealt with Shaq, Ewing, Malone, etc. But I did see someone make the point that they never had to deal with a frontline of both Duncan and Robinson. The Spurs backcourt was nothing special though without Parker and Ginobili. Avery Johnson and Mario Elie as starters? Lol.
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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 5:01 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
"If you ask all the guys who won in '98, Steve Kerr, Jud Buechler, blah blah blah, we give you a one-year contract to try for a seventh, you think they would have signed them? Yes, they would have signed them," Jordan said. "Would I have signed for one year? Yes, I would have signed for one year. I'd been signing one-year contracts up to that. Would Phil have done it? Yes. Now Pip, you would have had to do some convincing, but if Phil was gonna be there, Dennis [Rodman] was gonna be there, if M.J. was gonna be there, to win our seventh? Pip is not gonna miss out on that."

Quote:
"It's maddening," Jordan said. "Because I felt like we could have won seven. I really believe that. We may not have, but man, just not to be able to try, that's something that, you know, I just can't accept. For whatever reason, I just can't accept it."


LINK



Quote:
Theoretically, the Bulls could have retained Pippen and their other free agents, as the NBA didn't have a punitive luxury tax at the time. But Reinsdorf and Krause felt matching that contract for Pippen was simply out of the question for a player who already had suffered several major injuries during his time with the Bulls, and for a team that already had the highest payroll in the league, at $61.6 million, in 1998, when the salary cap was just $26.9 million.


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Would have been fun to watch Kobe go at MJ in the 1999 and 2000 seasons. When MJ came back with the Wizards, Jordan was old, Kobe had some rings and I didn’t care about that anymore.
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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2020 9:48 am    Post subject:

No.

Age.
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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2020 10:53 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
No.

Age.



Fatigue as well....one of the reasons I don't buy the Bulls would've won 8 straight titles had MJ not retired in 1993.
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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2020 11:12 am    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:

A more interesting question is whether they would have won in 1994 and 1995 if MJ hadn’t retired and been able to win 8 in a row.



Jordan is quoted as having said "Its a good thing these guys can never get out of the west. We have no answer for that big monster (Olajuwon)." Bulls were 2-8 vs the Rockets during their 3peat and the Rockets back to back seasons.

I feel like we were robbed from a couple great NBA Finals series'. Jordan vs Olajuwon when Olajuwon was the only star on his team, and then a rematch when Olajuwon had Drexler. Would have been legendary however it played out.
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 9:08 am    Post subject:

Steve007 wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
Naw, no way they beat that SA frontline. They never had to deal with someone like Duncan.


They dealt with Shaq, Ewing, Malone, etc. But I did see someone make the point that they never had to deal with a frontline of both Duncan and Robinson. The Spurs backcourt was nothing special though without Parker and Ginobili. Avery Johnson and Mario Elie as starters? Lol.


Yep. Rodman's hijinks would be too much for the young superstar, and Wennington/Longley have enough size to bother one while Rodman works his magic with the other. Robinson hated Rodman, I see Dennis getting in his head. Spurs played a tight series with the Knicks whose best frontline rotation was 6'5 Larry Johnson, a young Marcus Camby, and Kurt Thomas. Chris Dudley actually started the first two games, and Camby barely played in the Knicks' lone Game 3 win.

In 2000, I'm not surprised Pippen thinks a fifth straight was likely, after all he was one bad quarter away with the Blazers. With Rambis coaching (big mistake not firing Del after Utah swept and instead courting Adelman), Pippen may just be right, if they can survive Indy. The Lakers probably have Derek Harper instead of Ron. Finals are still likely with the Jazz aging, Kings young, and Duncan out. Blazers would be tough, more Bonzi/Steve Smith/Stoudamire in the rotation almost makes up for the loss of defense.

Indiana would probably beat the Bulls in 2000 due to attrition. Pippen would have to do more for the Bulls than he had to do in Portland, while likely playing more minutes. As for '99, Reggie was awful in those playoffs for some reason, so the Bulls have an easier path if that Reggie shows up.
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 11:55 am    Post subject:

In sports.. every good run comes to an end, Pippen is just trying to hype up the Bulls. the Spurs and Lakers were on there way up in terms of dominance.
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 12:37 pm    Post subject:

Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
Naw, no way they beat that SA frontline. They never had to deal with someone like Duncan.


They dealt with Shaq, Ewing, Malone, etc. But I did see someone make the point that they never had to deal with a frontline of both Duncan and Robinson. The Spurs backcourt was nothing special though without Parker and Ginobili. Avery Johnson and Mario Elie as starters? Lol.


Yep. Rodman's hijinks would be too much for the young superstar, and Wennington/Longley have enough size to bother one while Rodman works his magic with the other. Robinson hated Rodman, I see Dennis getting in his head. Spurs played a tight series with the Knicks whose best frontline rotation was 6'5 Larry Johnson, a young Marcus Camby, and Kurt Thomas. Chris Dudley actually started the first two games, and Camby barely played in the Knicks' lone Game 3 win.

In 2000, I'm not surprised Pippen thinks a fifth straight was likely, after all he was one bad quarter away with the Blazers. With Rambis coaching (big mistake not firing Del after Utah swept and instead courting Adelman), Pippen may just be right, if they can survive Indy. The Lakers probably have Derek Harper instead of Ron. Finals are still likely with the Jazz aging, Kings young, and Duncan out. Blazers would be tough, more Bonzi/Steve Smith/Stoudamire in the rotation almost makes up for the loss of defense.

Indiana would probably beat the Bulls in 2000 due to attrition. Pippen would have to do more for the Bulls than he had to do in Portland, while likely playing more minutes. As for '99, Reggie was awful in those playoffs for some reason, so the Bulls have an easier path if that Reggie shows up.


Why was it a mistake to not court Adelman when we wound up with Phil?
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 5:00 pm    Post subject:

Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
Naw, no way they beat that SA frontline. They never had to deal with someone like Duncan.


They dealt with Shaq, Ewing, Malone, etc. But I did see someone make the point that they never had to deal with a frontline of both Duncan and Robinson. The Spurs backcourt was nothing special though without Parker and Ginobili. Avery Johnson and Mario Elie as starters? Lol.


Yep. Rodman's hijinks would be too much for the young superstar, and Wennington/Longley have enough size to bother one while Rodman works his magic with the other. Robinson hated Rodman, I see Dennis getting in his head. Spurs played a tight series with the Knicks whose best frontline rotation was 6'5 Larry Johnson, a young Marcus Camby, and Kurt Thomas. Chris Dudley actually started the first two games, and Camby barely played in the Knicks' lone Game 3 win.

In 2000, I'm not surprised Pippen thinks a fifth straight was likely, after all he was one bad quarter away with the Blazers. With Rambis coaching (big mistake not firing Del after Utah swept and instead courting Adelman), Pippen may just be right, if they can survive Indy. The Lakers probably have Derek Harper instead of Ron. Finals are still likely with the Jazz aging, Kings young, and Duncan out. Blazers would be tough, more Bonzi/Steve Smith/Stoudamire in the rotation almost makes up for the loss of defense.

Indiana would probably beat the Bulls in 2000 due to attrition. Pippen would have to do more for the Bulls than he had to do in Portland, while likely playing more minutes. As for '99, Reggie was awful in those playoffs for some reason, so the Bulls have an easier path if that Reggie shows up.


Portland was pretty good in 1999 without Pippen, playing well in the regular season and dominating the Jazz in the second round. I was shocked they didn’t do better against the Spurs. In 2000 I could see them beating the Bulls in the Finals. Front court had players like Rasheed Wallace, Brian Grant and Sabonis.

I’m not sure Chicago couldn’t win in 1999. So much would depend on health. They won 62 games in 1998 despite Scottie missing 38 games because he was angry about his contract situation. If they dominate the 1999 season they could possibly rest up at the end of the season (after resting up during the lockout). But they would need to be healthy enough to do that and the schedule didn’t let teams rest much during the season, which can’t be good for older teams.

I could see them ending up like Utah. The Jazz had a great regular season, but looked off in the playoffs and might have ran out of gas. They played 19 games in April including playing 3 nights in a row twice that month. They finished the season 5-5 and never looked good in the playoffs after looking impressive in the first game. The next year Utah had a weaker bench, won 55 games and didn’t look good enough to make it past the second or third round.
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 5:43 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
Why was it a mistake to not court Adelman when we wound up with Phil?


Only in the hypothetical reality where Phil stayed with the Bulls after '98 and through 2000. Doubt he'd take another job right after 2000 ended.

Of course, since the whole world knew Jackson was out in CHI after 1998, the Lakers were wise to wait, even if Del was an obvious lame duck coach.
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 6:50 pm    Post subject:

Steve007 wrote:
Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
Naw, no way they beat that SA frontline. They never had to deal with someone like Duncan.


They dealt with Shaq, Ewing, Malone, etc. But I did see someone make the point that they never had to deal with a frontline of both Duncan and Robinson. The Spurs backcourt was nothing special though without Parker and Ginobili. Avery Johnson and Mario Elie as starters? Lol.


Yep. Rodman's hijinks would be too much for the young superstar, and Wennington/Longley have enough size to bother one while Rodman works his magic with the other. Robinson hated Rodman, I see Dennis getting in his head. Spurs played a tight series with the Knicks whose best frontline rotation was 6'5 Larry Johnson, a young Marcus Camby, and Kurt Thomas. Chris Dudley actually started the first two games, and Camby barely played in the Knicks' lone Game 3 win.

In 2000, I'm not surprised Pippen thinks a fifth straight was likely, after all he was one bad quarter away with the Blazers. With Rambis coaching (big mistake not firing Del after Utah swept and instead courting Adelman), Pippen may just be right, if they can survive Indy. The Lakers probably have Derek Harper instead of Ron. Finals are still likely with the Jazz aging, Kings young, and Duncan out. Blazers would be tough, more Bonzi/Steve Smith/Stoudamire in the rotation almost makes up for the loss of defense.

Indiana would probably beat the Bulls in 2000 due to attrition. Pippen would have to do more for the Bulls than he had to do in Portland, while likely playing more minutes. As for '99, Reggie was awful in those playoffs for some reason, so the Bulls have an easier path if that Reggie shows up.


Portland was pretty good in 1999 without Pippen, playing well in the regular season and dominating the Jazz in the second round. I was shocked they didn’t do better against the Spurs. In 2000 I could see them beating the Bulls in the Finals. Front court had players like Rasheed Wallace, Brian Grant and Sabonis.

I’m not sure Chicago couldn’t win in 1999. So much would depend on health. They won 62 games in 1998 despite Scottie missing 38 games because he was angry about his contract situation. If they dominate the 1999 season they could possibly rest up at the end of the season (after resting up during the lockout). But they would need to be healthy enough to do that and the schedule didn’t let teams rest much during the season, which can’t be good for older teams.

I could see them ending up like Utah. The Jazz had a great regular season, but looked off in the playoffs and might have ran out of gas. They played 19 games in April including playing 3 nights in a row twice that month. They finished the season 5-5 and never looked good in the playoffs after looking impressive in the first game. The next year Utah had a weaker bench, won 55 games and didn’t look good enough to make it past the second or third round.


Thew vet-laden Jazz did not finish the condensed season well at all after starting 32-8 (10-11 including playoffs), but in a year the #8 seed made the Finals in the East, hard to see anyone taking out MJ.

The Knicks probably miss the playoffs with the Bulls in the picture, Spurs/Bulls would seem inevitable. The core may have aged, but Kukoc could expand his scoring role to take some of the load off. The Bulls would also be more driven than most to stay healthy during the lockout, Shaq noted in his book most players didn't prepare themselves for that season properly. I'm also assuming Jordan didn't fool around with a cigar cutter and sever a tendon prior to what would've been the '99 season.

2000 Blazers/Lakers WCF probably still happens, as the Blazers were still very deep. Assuming rosters are the same otherwise, it would all come down to how Shaq responds to a coach like Rambis instead of Phil. It is hard to see the Bulls getting through an improving East and the Blazers or Lakers in the Finals, with Rodman turning 39 and little help from the young players.
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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2020 10:24 am    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
How do they stop Duncan/Robinson or Shaq the year after?

A more interesting question is whether they would have won in 1994 and 1995 if MJ hadn’t retired and been able to win 8 in a row.


I think they win in 1994. Jordan retired somewhere in Sep.-Oct. not long before the season started, and the Bulls kept their whole core together (most significant losses were Trent Tucker and Stacey King who played 10mpg in the 1993 playoffs) with Paxson-Armstrong-Pippen-Grant-Cartwright all staying, but them also adding Kerr, Kukoc and Longley, important pieces for the 2nd 3peat (also Pete Myers, but you could argue they dont sign him if Jordan stayed). Armstrong and Grant elevated their play to allstar level along with Pippen and the team was much deeper. I think that team had the best shot at a 4peat ever along with us in 2003.

1995 is a different story, Grant left and they had no inside defense with still no Rodman on the team. Harper was a good addition but thats not solving their interior defense issues. Maybe a not-straight-out-of-retirement Jordan gets them over the Magic somehow, but the Rockets with Hakeem-Drexler would be too much imo.

About 1999, i think they would have to slightly rebuild to make a push. Jordan-Pippen was still the best duo in the league and Rodman could still defend and grab boards. But the Spurs might have been a difficult matchup, different to their previous opponents. Im not familiar with their contract situations in the summer of 1998, but i imagine they would have to do a trade for someone to help Rodman defend Duncan and Robinson, plus they were running on fumes vs Utah so some fresh legs would have been much welcome. Its crazy, if things played out slightly differently, we are looking at a potential 2 times 4peat team
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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2020 12:16 pm    Post subject:

'99? Sure.
'00? Who is Phil coaching? That probably decides the series.
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2020 8:43 pm    Post subject:

GOODRICH25 wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
How do they stop Duncan/Robinson or Shaq the year after?

A more interesting question is whether they would have won in 1994 and 1995 if MJ hadn’t retired and been able to win 8 in a row.


I think they win in 1994. Jordan retired somewhere in Sep.-Oct. not long before the season started, and the Bulls kept their whole core together (most significant losses were Trent Tucker and Stacey King who played 10mpg in the 1993 playoffs) with Paxson-Armstrong-Pippen-Grant-Cartwright all staying, but them also adding Kerr, Kukoc and Longley, important pieces for the 2nd 3peat (also Pete Myers, but you could argue they dont sign him if Jordan stayed). Armstrong and Grant elevated their play to allstar level along with Pippen and the team was much deeper. I think that team had the best shot at a 4peat ever along with us in 2003.

1995 is a different story, Grant left and they had no inside defense with still no Rodman on the team. Harper was a good addition but thats not solving their interior defense issues. Maybe a not-straight-out-of-retirement Jordan gets them over the Magic somehow, but the Rockets with Hakeem-Drexler would be too much imo.

About 1999, i think they would have to slightly rebuild to make a push. Jordan-Pippen was still the best duo in the league and Rodman could still defend and grab boards. But the Spurs might have been a difficult matchup, different to their previous opponents. Im not familiar with their contract situations in the summer of 1998, but i imagine they would have to do a trade for someone to help Rodman defend Duncan and Robinson, plus they were running on fumes vs Utah so some fresh legs would have been much welcome. Its crazy, if things played out slightly differently, we are looking at a potential 2 times 4peat team


I looked up the numbers for MJ in the 95 playoffs and they were great. Unless he was worse on defense (which is a possibility) I doubt he could have done much better even at 100%. I think having no Grant/Rodman was a bigger problem.

MJ never won without Pippen, but I would add that he never won without a big 3 on his team.

The Bulls never had much trouble in the first 2 rounds of the playoffs from 1996-1998. It reminds me of Lebron James and the Miami Heat in some of those years, except the Bulls had it even easier. Chicago didn’t really see any serious threats until the conference finals. They were able to coast thru the first 2 rounds. One reason MJ lost in 95 is the East was tougher then.

It seemed like every year I thought to myself that this was the year a team from the East would beat Lebron and the entire conference would disappoint me. We might have seen something similar from the Bulls in 1999 and 2000. Unless Indiana could do something about that.
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2020 8:49 am    Post subject:

Steve007 wrote:
GOODRICH25 wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
How do they stop Duncan/Robinson or Shaq the year after?

A more interesting question is whether they would have won in 1994 and 1995 if MJ hadn’t retired and been able to win 8 in a row.


I think they win in 1994. Jordan retired somewhere in Sep.-Oct. not long before the season started, and the Bulls kept their whole core together (most significant losses were Trent Tucker and Stacey King who played 10mpg in the 1993 playoffs) with Paxson-Armstrong-Pippen-Grant-Cartwright all staying, but them also adding Kerr, Kukoc and Longley, important pieces for the 2nd 3peat (also Pete Myers, but you could argue they dont sign him if Jordan stayed). Armstrong and Grant elevated their play to allstar level along with Pippen and the team was much deeper. I think that team had the best shot at a 4peat ever along with us in 2003.

1995 is a different story, Grant left and they had no inside defense with still no Rodman on the team. Harper was a good addition but thats not solving their interior defense issues. Maybe a not-straight-out-of-retirement Jordan gets them over the Magic somehow, but the Rockets with Hakeem-Drexler would be too much imo.

About 1999, i think they would have to slightly rebuild to make a push. Jordan-Pippen was still the best duo in the league and Rodman could still defend and grab boards. But the Spurs might have been a difficult matchup, different to their previous opponents. Im not familiar with their contract situations in the summer of 1998, but i imagine they would have to do a trade for someone to help Rodman defend Duncan and Robinson, plus they were running on fumes vs Utah so some fresh legs would have been much welcome. Its crazy, if things played out slightly differently, we are looking at a potential 2 times 4peat team


I looked up the numbers for MJ in the 95 playoffs and they were great. Unless he was worse on defense (which is a possibility) I doubt he could have done much better even at 100%. I think having no Grant/Rodman was a bigger problem.

MJ never won without Pippen, but I would add that he never won without a big 3 on his team.

The Bulls never had much trouble in the first 2 rounds of the playoffs from 1996-1998. It reminds me of Lebron James and the Miami Heat in some of those years, except the Bulls had it even easier. Chicago didn’t really see any serious threats until the conference finals. They were able to coast thru the first 2 rounds. One reason MJ lost in 95 is the East was tougher then.

It seemed like every year I thought to myself that this was the year a team from the East would beat Lebron and the entire conference would disappoint me. We might have seen something similar from the Bulls in 1999 and 2000. Unless Indiana could do something about that.


They lost in 6 but the last 2 games were single digit losses. He still was the elite scorer because well, he's MJ, but I don't think the impact of playing yourself into the playoffs through a training camp and full season is to be underestimated. I'm not claiming they beat the Magic but in this scenario their chances are higher.

He never had a big3 if you ask me, they never had a 3rd star.

1999 and 2000 are much tougher to tell than 1995 and 1994 imo, because I can't really tell what their team would look like in those years. Healthy Jordan and Pippen = contender, but to go all the way other pieces must fit
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