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Baron Von Humongous
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 Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | My value of government is great at the local level, less value at the State level and even less at the Federal level. Kind of how our Founders framed the Constitution. Part of why I don’t want any part of Trump or Congress guiding us through this. |
This is actually a scenario where you need top down guidance more than normal. That was actually a hurdle we faced when this pandemic hit. Trump dragged his feet on using the Defense Production Act. Which is where the federal government pays companies to produce things the public needs (masks, gloves, ventilators). Apparently Trump talked to some free-market loving CEO's and they hated the idea (Trump's words not mine). That act should've been used the day Trump declared COVID a national crisis. Chuck Schumer begged Trump to. Finally he did, weeks later than necessary.
Another issue for why you want top down leadership early is because states were competing for masks, gloves, ventilators. So price went up. Availability went down. And there was no federal guidance to fix the problem until weeks later. |
This
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | My value of government is great at the local level, less value at the State level and even less at the Federal level. Kind of how our Founders framed the Constitution. Part of why I don’t want any part of Trump or Congress guiding us through this. |
This is actually a scenario where you need top down guidance more than normal. That was actually a hurdle we faced when this pandemic hit. Trump dragged his feet on using the Defense Production Act. Which is where the federal government pays companies to produce things the public needs (masks, gloves, ventilators). Apparently Trump talked to some free-market loving CEO's and they hated the idea (Trump's words not mine). That act should've been used the day Trump declared COVID a national crisis. Chuck Schumer begged Trump to. Finally he did, weeks later than necessary.
Another issue for why you want top down leadership early is because states were competing for masks, gloves, ventilators. So price went up. Availability went down. And there was no federal guidance to fix the problem until weeks later. |
This |
Indeed.
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LarryCoon
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| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | akk7 wrote: | | Are you implying this virus was created in a lab? I may have misinterpreted. |
There's an internet rumor (since debunked) that the virus was engineered as a bio-weapon by the Chinese. |
The Skeptics Guide podcast last week (3/27) also did a good job covering that and why it was very likely not engineered. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | My value of government is great at the local level, less value at the State level and even less at the Federal level. Kind of how our Founders framed the Constitution. Part of why I don’t want any part of Trump or Congress guiding us through this. |
This is actually a scenario where you need top down guidance more than normal. That was actually a hurdle we faced when this pandemic hit. Trump dragged his feet on using the Defense Production Act. Which is where the federal government pays companies to produce things the public needs (masks, gloves, ventilators). Apparently Trump talked to some free-market loving CEO's and they hated the idea (Trump's words not mine). That act should've been used the day Trump declared COVID a national crisis. Chuck Schumer begged Trump to. Finally he did, weeks later than necessary.
Another issue for why you want top down leadership early is because states were competing for masks, gloves, ventilators. So price went up. Availability went down. And there was no federal guidance to fix the problem until weeks later. |
This |
Indeed. |
One caveat. Trump has still not triggered the Defense Production Act as of today. He's just tweeted about it.
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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The US military appears to be confiscating necessary medical equipment from around the world that was intended for other countries as well as from blue states like Massachusetts and Colorado. The Trump administration has turned the US military apparatus into a global piracy racket* during a pandemic. And they're doing so so private firms can then sell the hoarded medical supplies and devices at a gross markup to the states.
* yes, yes, greenfrog, I know
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | The US military appears to be confiscating necessary medical equipment from around the world that was intended for other countries as well as from blue states like Massachusetts and Colorado. The Trump administration has turned the US military apparatus into a global piracy racket* during a pandemic. And they're doing so so private firms can then sell the hoarded medical supplies and devices at a gross markup to the states.
* yes, yes, greenfrog, I know |
The state of Illinois submitted a $4.3M bid for masks from China in a McDonald's parking lot.
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | The US military appears to be confiscating necessary medical equipment from around the world that was intended for other countries as well as from blue states like Massachusetts and Colorado. The Trump administration has turned the US military apparatus into a global piracy racket* during a pandemic. And they're doing so so private firms can then sell the hoarded medical supplies and devices at a gross markup to the states.
* yes, yes, greenfrog, I know |
I saw there was a dispute about some masks for Germany that were apparently diverted to the US, but do you have a link to the rest of that assertion?
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | The US military appears to be confiscating necessary medical equipment from around the world that was intended for other countries as well as from blue states like Massachusetts and Colorado. The Trump administration has turned the US military apparatus into a global piracy racket* during a pandemic. And they're doing so so private firms can then sell the hoarded medical supplies and devices at a gross markup to the states.
* yes, yes, greenfrog, I know |
I saw there was a dispute about some masks for Germany that were apparently diverted to the US, but do you have a link to the rest of that assertion? |
| Quote: | Jesse Aaron Paul ☀
@JesseAPaul
NEW: Gov. Jared Polis says Colorado had an order for ventilators being finalized and then FEMA bought them "from under us." |
https://twitter.com/JesseAPaul/status/1246265842699923456
| Quote: | Matthew Zeitlin
@MattZeitlin
The governor of Massachusetts worked with local rich guy and the Chinese government because he couldn’t trust the Feds not to take their masks |
https://twitter.com/MattZeitlin/status/1246245606026358784
| Quote: | A senior German politician on Friday accused the Trump administration of “modern piracy” after nearly 200,000 face masks ordered by Germany were seized by U.S. authorities.
Andreas Geisel, the interior minister for Berlin state, confirmed media reports that about 200,000 FFP2 masks purchased for the Berlin police were seized at an airport in the Thai capital Bangkok following intervention by American authorities.
“We view this as an act of modern piracy,” he said in a written statement, stressing that such behavior between transatlantic partners is unacceptable. |
Link
So I'll withdraw the bit about the U.S. military. It appears to be other arms of the federal government. The references to inflated prices for medical supplies from private firms are all over the place.
ETA: More:
| Quote: | David Begnaud
@DavidBegnaud
This is so important for everyone to understand. This explains why Governors say: I'm not getting the supplies I need - yet
@POTUS
says we are sending tons of supplies: It's going from the federal govt to commercial distributors who then deliver to the highest bidder: states! |
https://twitter.com/DavidBegnaud/status/1245841458323771393
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Last edited by Baron Von Humongous on Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | The US military appears to be confiscating necessary medical equipment from around the world that was intended for other countries as well as from blue states like Massachusetts and Colorado. The Trump administration has turned the US military apparatus into a global piracy racket* during a pandemic. And they're doing so so private firms can then sell the hoarded medical supplies and devices at a gross markup to the states.
* yes, yes, greenfrog, I know |
I saw there was a dispute about some masks for Germany that were apparently diverted to the US, but do you have a link to the rest of that assertion? |
I also suspect it will become a bigger story:
| Quote: |
Josh Marshall
@joshtpm
There are just too many stories of PPE supplies being shipped into hot spot states and being conficated by US customs when they arrive through an airport or US port. I’m not talking abt big amazon orders. This is states, massive hospital systems. |
https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1246288050516353024
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jodeke
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| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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It's a damn shame PPE, masks, ventilators, life saving equipment is becoming the new money making source. Money taking precedence over human life. The Kraken has been released.
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dood23
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| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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what is the most realistic event where the entire world just stops being idiots and starts working together without money even being a thought, instead of acting like greedy, selfish apes?
i thought this would be it, but then toilet paper happened. if it's not global warming, or a pandemic, wtf is it!?
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unleasHell
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| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| dood23 wrote: |
i thought this would be it, but then toilet paper happened. if it's not global warming, or a pandemic, wtf is it!? |
Simple, more opportunities for government bashing by arm-chair politicians!
It's interpreting, bending, misquoting or quoting only posts/news that suits ones agenda...
After all, that's the American way...!
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:14 am Post subject: |
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So the Feds did intercept and seize masks ordered by Massachusetts. That's why governor Baker asked for Kraft family help and private plane. Here's a Boston reporter relaying Baker's comments at press conference:
| Quote: | Adam Gaffin @universalhub
Baker: Started calling "everybody I could think of" how to get masks after 3 million masks MA had "lost" to the feds in the port of New York to try to get more masks. Those masks had been ordered through BJ's, then the feds seized them.
Baker said he called Jonathan Kraft with idea of treating Chinese mask purchase as "private humanitarian mission" to keep the feds from finding out. Ambassador Wong (Chinese UN ambassador) was "incredibly important" in arranging the deal and shipment.
Sutters: State will post lists of who is getting the masks. Decisions will be made based on immediate Covid-19 and shortages - goal is to try to give "facilities in need" at least a 7-day supply.
Baker: Governor of Alaska helped with the mask shipment, arranging for the plane to land there so the crew could rest. |
So our Blue State governor had to figure out how to outmaneuver the Federal government who is supposed to helping, not hurting. Sad, sad, sad. |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 6:25 am Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | So the Feds did intercept and seize masks ordered by Massachusetts. That's why governor Baker asked for Kraft family help and private plane. Here's a Boston reporter relaying Baker's comments at press conference:
| Quote: | Adam Gaffin @universalhub
Baker: Started calling "everybody I could think of" how to get masks after 3 million masks MA had "lost" to the feds in the port of New York to try to get more masks. Those masks had been ordered through BJ's, then the feds seized them.
Baker said he called Jonathan Kraft with idea of treating Chinese mask purchase as "private humanitarian mission" to keep the feds from finding out. Ambassador Wong (Chinese UN ambassador) was "incredibly important" in arranging the deal and shipment.
Sutters: State will post lists of who is getting the masks. Decisions will be made based on immediate Covid-19 and shortages - goal is to try to give "facilities in need" at least a 7-day supply.
Baker: Governor of Alaska helped with the mask shipment, arranging for the plane to land there so the crew could rest. |
So our Blue State governor had to figure out how to outmaneuver the Federal government who is supposed to helping, not hurting. Sad, sad, sad. |
I hope someday we can see an audit of what, and how much, was ordered, when; and what, and how much was delivered, when, to each of the 50 states. |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 7:01 am Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | So the Feds did intercept and seize masks ordered by Massachusetts. That's why governor Baker asked for Kraft family help and private plane. Here's a Boston reporter relaying Baker's comments at press conference:
| Quote: | Adam Gaffin @universalhub
Baker: Started calling "everybody I could think of" how to get masks after 3 million masks MA had "lost" to the feds in the port of New York to try to get more masks. Those masks had been ordered through BJ's, then the feds seized them.
Baker said he called Jonathan Kraft with idea of treating Chinese mask purchase as "private humanitarian mission" to keep the feds from finding out. Ambassador Wong (Chinese UN ambassador) was "incredibly important" in arranging the deal and shipment.
Sutters: State will post lists of who is getting the masks. Decisions will be made based on immediate Covid-19 and shortages - goal is to try to give "facilities in need" at least a 7-day supply.
Baker: Governor of Alaska helped with the mask shipment, arranging for the plane to land there so the crew could rest. |
So our Blue State governor had to figure out how to outmaneuver the Federal government who is supposed to helping, not hurting. Sad, sad, sad. |
I hope someday we can see an audit of what, and how much, was ordered, when; and what, and how much was delivered, when, to each of the 50 states. |
They are either diverting supplies to Red States as a reward or somehow funneling through a middle-man to skim a piece of the action. Everything I know about Trump tells me one or both of these things is true. How you prove it is a whole other question.
Maybe that's why Nancy Pelosi wanted to set up a Congressional committee to investigate? Congress authorized funds and Congress has the right to oversee how those funds are spent.
Sorry, it's hard not to be political in this thread given the reality of the above. |
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C M B
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| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| dood23 wrote: | what is the most realistic event where the entire world just stops being idiots and starts working together without money even being a thought, instead of acting like greedy, selfish apes?
i thought this would be it, but then toilet paper happened. if it's not global warming, or a pandemic, wtf is it!? |
alien overlords
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ContagiousInspiration
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| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | So the Feds did intercept and seize masks ordered by Massachusetts. That's why governor Baker asked for Kraft family help and private plane. Here's a Boston reporter relaying Baker's comments at press conference:
| Quote: | Adam Gaffin @universalhub
Baker: Started calling "everybody I could think of" how to get masks after 3 million masks MA had "lost" to the feds in the port of New York to try to get more masks. Those masks had been ordered through BJ's, then the feds seized them.
Baker said he called Jonathan Kraft with idea of treating Chinese mask purchase as "private humanitarian mission" to keep the feds from finding out. Ambassador Wong (Chinese UN ambassador) was "incredibly important" in arranging the deal and shipment.
Sutters: State will post lists of who is getting the masks. Decisions will be made based on immediate Covid-19 and shortages - goal is to try to give "facilities in need" at least a 7-day supply.
Baker: Governor of Alaska helped with the mask shipment, arranging for the plane to land there so the crew could rest. |
So our Blue State governor had to figure out how to outmaneuver the Federal government who is supposed to helping, not hurting. Sad, sad, sad. |
((PERSONAL COMMENT DELETED. OTHER POSTERS ARE NOT A TOPIC OF CONVERSATION - JMK)) |
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ContagiousInspiration
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| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:25 am Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | So the Feds did intercept and seize masks ordered by Massachusetts. That's why governor Baker asked for Kraft family help and private plane. Here's a Boston reporter relaying Baker's comments at press conference:
| Quote: | Adam Gaffin @universalhub
Baker: Started calling "everybody I could think of" how to get masks after 3 million masks MA had "lost" to the feds in the port of New York to try to get more masks. Those masks had been ordered through BJ's, then the feds seized them.
Baker said he called Jonathan Kraft with idea of treating Chinese mask purchase as "private humanitarian mission" to keep the feds from finding out. Ambassador Wong (Chinese UN ambassador) was "incredibly important" in arranging the deal and shipment.
Sutters: State will post lists of who is getting the masks. Decisions will be made based on immediate Covid-19 and shortages - goal is to try to give "facilities in need" at least a 7-day supply.
Baker: Governor of Alaska helped with the mask shipment, arranging for the plane to land there so the crew could rest. |
So our Blue State governor had to figure out how to outmaneuver the Federal government who is supposed to helping, not hurting. Sad, sad, sad. |
I hope someday we can see an audit of what, and how much, was ordered, when; and what, and how much was delivered, when, to each of the 50 states. |
They are either diverting supplies to Red States as a reward or somehow funneling through a middle-man to skim a piece of the action. Everything I know about Trump tells me one or both of these things is true. How you prove it is a whole other question.
Maybe that's why Nancy Pelosi wanted to set up a Congressional committee to investigate? Congress authorized funds and Congress has the right to oversee how those funds are spent.
Sorry, it's hard not to be political in this thread given the reality of the above. |
It also shows Red State Governors he can/will do it to them too if he feels like it.
He is flexing his Barr muscles |
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ribeye
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:13 am Post subject: |
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Someone's gonna be pissed . . .
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:37 am Post subject: |
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It wouldn’t be necessary if Cuomo had listened to his advisors in 2015.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | It's a damn shame PPE, masks, ventilators, life saving equipment is becoming the new money making source. Money taking precedence over human life. The Kraken has been released. |
(Trying to bring a little humor to this serious situation). I am sitting on a gold mine at work, we have a warehouse of the stuff. My company is involved with fighting this virus.
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | It's a damn shame PPE, masks, ventilators, life saving equipment is becoming the new money making source. Money taking precedence over human life. The Kraken has been released. |
(Trying to bring a little humor to this serious situation). I am sitting on a gold mine at work, we have a warehouse of the stuff. My company is involved with fighting this virus. |
Free the ventilators!
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ribeye
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| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: |
It wouldn’t be necessary if Cuomo had listened to his advisors in 2015. |
So said Trump. For some reason . . . I'm a bit skeptical that there is not more (or less) to this. |
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