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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:19 am    Post subject:

cal1piggy, you have been a star. Thanks for taking the time to keep people updated.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:22 am    Post subject:

Anthony Davis donating to LA Hospital Workers

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2883396-lakers-anthony-davis-matching-donations-to-give-la-hospital-workers-meals
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:26 am    Post subject:

RI Laker wrote:
cal1piggy, you have been a star. Thanks for taking the time to keep people updated.


no problem. i have several searches going everyday on the various drugs.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:25 pm    Post subject:

ThePageDude wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:

<snip>

Corona is not going to overwhelm the healthcare system. We are doing that to ourselves every day already.
<snip>


Others have already commented but this is badly misleading. I'm directly in touch with a hospital in Brooklyn NY that's squeezed in nearly thrice (yes thrice) it's capacity of patients as we speak and is desperate for protective gear, supplies and equipment. Granted it's one hospital in a hot-spot, but still.



Total cases of New York = 66,497


Total No. of Hospitals in New York = 220


If all Covid cases are hospitalized there will be 302 new patients per hospital.


If 5% of the Covid cases were critical that means 15 new patients will be in ICU per hospital.


If we follow the Worldometer trend... 95% of all Covid cases are in Mild condition while 5% are critical.


That means only around 3,325 covid patients needs "real" hospitalization but the fact is the system is burdened by people who don't need to be hospitalized but are NOT sent home because of the possibility of lawsuits.

Making the OP right.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:50 pm    Post subject:

Hero Ball wrote:
but the fact is the system is burdened by people who don't need to be hospitalized but are NOT sent home because of the possibility of lawsuits.


It would take more than a rant from some message board to make me believe that "fact."
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:53 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
but the fact is the system is burdened by people who don't need to be hospitalized but are NOT sent home because of the possibility of lawsuits.


It would take more than a rant from some message board to make me believe that "fact."



so you believe all patients staying in hospitals need hospitalization?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:58 pm    Post subject:

Do you know how easy it is to fake abdominal pain, weakness or perhaps vertigo?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:15 pm    Post subject:

Malingering is a word you need to add in your vocabulary.


Start on this page:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/malingering
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:05 pm    Post subject:

Yeah, right. I'm sure the ICUs in New York are full of people on ventilators who are malingering. This is a load of nonsense. Just think about the logic of the argument. "Doctors admit people to the hospital because they might get sued for medical malpractice if they sent them home." Think about that one. No, I mean really think about it. It's a safe bet that no doctor has ever been successfully sued for medical malpractice for failing to admit a patient who did not actually need to be admitted. Duh.

I'm sure there are people who manage to get admitted to hospitals for whatever reason when they don't really need to be admitted, but the idea that this is a significant problem is silly. This is especially true right now. With the triage conditions in New York, it's likely that all sorts of people who would normally be hospitalized have been sent home. This is the case in Italy. There was a story in this thread or another about someone who got into a car wreck in Italy, was treated in the parking lot of the hospital, and then got sent home.
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cal1piggy
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:35 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Yeah, right. I'm sure the ICUs in New York are full of people on ventilators who are malingering. This is a load of nonsense. Just think about the logic of the argument. "Doctors admit people to the hospital because they might get sued for medical malpractice if they sent them home." Think about that one. No, I mean really think about it. It's a safe bet that no doctor has ever been successfully sued for medical malpractice for failing to admit a patient who did not actually need to be admitted. Duh.

I'm sure there are people who manage to get admitted to hospitals for whatever reason when they don't really need to be admitted, but the idea that this is a significant problem is silly. This is especially true right now. With the triage conditions in New York, it's likely that all sorts of people who would normally be hospitalized have been sent home. This is the case in Italy. There was a story in this thread or another about someone who got into a car wreck in Italy, was treated in the parking lot of the hospital, and then got sent home.


of course, covid19 is not a problem at all but a figment of our imagination. it is all a conspiracy to ruin the economy!

those 80000-200000 that may die is just a little more than a bad season of pneumonia. let's all go back to work and have a block party on every block !!!

nevermind the nih director of infectious disease said 1-2 million may die if we dont continue social distancing. covid19 is just all BS!


Last edited by cal1piggy on Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:54 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:37 pm    Post subject:

Hero Ball wrote:
ThePageDude wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:

<snip>

Corona is not going to overwhelm the healthcare system. We are doing that to ourselves every day already.
<snip>


Others have already commented but this is badly misleading. I'm directly in touch with a hospital in Brooklyn NY that's squeezed in nearly thrice (yes thrice) it's capacity of patients as we speak and is desperate for protective gear, supplies and equipment. Granted it's one hospital in a hot-spot, but still.



Total cases of New York = 66,497


Total No. of Hospitals in New York = 220


If all Covid cases are hospitalized there will be 302 new patients per hospital.


If 5% of the Covid cases were critical that means 15 new patients will be in ICU per hospital.


If we follow the Worldometer trend... 95% of all Covid cases are in Mild condition while 5% are critical.


That means only around 3,325 covid patients needs "real" hospitalization but the fact is the system is burdened by people who don't need to be hospitalized but are NOT sent home because of the possibility of lawsuits.

Making the OP right.


I wish the OP was right. She is not with respect to the hospital I'm talking about. They haven't admitted 3X the patients because they were afraid of lawsuits - they admitted them because they have major issues - mainly respiratory. I know because I'm in touch with the hospital admin staff. They're sending out tens (yes, that's TENS) of bodybags daily for the 3-4 days - this is tens above their steady state. Check out the situation in the Queens hospital - all over social media - thats 15-20 miles away from Brooklyn.

Now as to your main point, the math is fine, but doesn't match reality. Reality is cases come in droves in congested/populated areas, they're not distributed evenly across the state. I said as much when I said "hot spot"; we can remain sanguine about our total system's capacity, but we have many, many metro areas like New York, and it doesn't make me feel any better if someone tells me - hey only 10% of the hospitals will face this issue, be happy, rest of the 90% will be fine.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:54 pm    Post subject:

more anecdotal data on chloroquine from china

No difference in the age and sex distribution between the control group and the HCQ group. But for TTCR, the body temperature recovery time and the cough remission time were significantly shortened in the HCQ treatment group. Besides, a larger proportion of patients with improved pneumonia in the HCQ treatment group (80.6%, 25 of 32) compared with the control group (54.8%, 17 of 32). Notably, all 4 patients progressed to severe illness that occurred in the control group. However, there were 2 patients with mild adverse reactions in the HCQ treatment group. Significance: Among patients with COVID-19, the use of HCQ could significantly shorten TTCR and promote the absorption of pneumonia.

https://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2020/03/small-chinese-trial-shows-hydroxychloroquine-helps-covid-19/
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:15 pm    Post subject:

Hero Ball wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
but the fact is the system is burdened by people who don't need to be hospitalized but are NOT sent home because of the possibility of lawsuits.


It would take more than a rant from some message board to make me believe that "fact."



so you believe all patients staying in hospitals need hospitalization?


Why would you want to stay in a hospital full of sick people if you didn’t need to be hospitalized?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:07 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
but the fact is the system is burdened by people who don't need to be hospitalized but are NOT sent home because of the possibility of lawsuits.


It would take more than a rant from some message board to make me believe that "fact."



so you believe all patients staying in hospitals need hospitalization?


Why would you want to stay in a hospital full of sick people if you didn’t need to be hospitalized?


Oh, it really happens. There are people who want to be hospitalized, and there are people whose families want them to be hospitalized. It’s a crazy world out there. If you’ve never heard of it, look up Munchausen Syndrome and Munchausen by Proxy, I have a friend who handles CPS litigation. Munchausen by Proxy pops up in child abuse cases. It’s really twisted.

What I dispute is that this is more than a trivial issue with our hospital and ICU capacity at a time like this.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:15 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
but the fact is the system is burdened by people who don't need to be hospitalized but are NOT sent home because of the possibility of lawsuits.


It would take more than a rant from some message board to make me believe that "fact."



so you believe all patients staying in hospitals need hospitalization?


Why would you want to stay in a hospital full of sick people if you didn’t need to be hospitalized?


Oh, it really happens. There are people who want to be hospitalized, and there are people whose families want them to be hospitalized. It’s a crazy world out there. If you’ve never heard of it, look up Munchausen Syndrome and Munchausen by Proxy, I have a friend who handles CPS litigation. Munchausen by Proxy pops up in child abuse cases. It’s really twisted.

What I dispute is that this is more than a trivial issue with our hospital and ICU capacity at a time like this.


Hmm, not sure where you are going with this but I will guarantee that 90% of the folks in hospitals, especially those in NYC hospitals currently are there because they need the medical care. It’s not a conspiracy. People are dying and COVID-19 is real.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:18 pm    Post subject:

Kind of data we need more of. Love this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/30/health/coronavirus-restrictions-fevers.html

https://healthweather.us/
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:39 pm    Post subject:

anth2000 wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
but the fact is the system is burdened by people who don't need to be hospitalized but are NOT sent home because of the possibility of lawsuits.


It would take more than a rant from some message board to make me believe that "fact."



so you believe all patients staying in hospitals need hospitalization?


Why would you want to stay in a hospital full of sick people if you didn’t need to be hospitalized?


Oh, it really happens. There are people who want to be hospitalized, and there are people whose families want them to be hospitalized. It’s a crazy world out there. If you’ve never heard of it, look up Munchausen Syndrome and Munchausen by Proxy, I have a friend who handles CPS litigation. Munchausen by Proxy pops up in child abuse cases. It’s really twisted.

What I dispute is that this is more than a trivial issue with our hospital and ICU capacity at a time like this.


Hmm, not sure where you are going with this but I will guarantee that 90% of the folks in hospitals, especially those in NYC hospitals currently are there because they need the medical care. It’s not a conspiracy. People are dying and COVID-19 is real.


Actually I believe your point and AH's are pretty much the same. The number of non-legit patients is trivial. The hospitals that are getting overrun are overflowing because of a rapid rise in patients in hot spot areas with breathing problems as a result of this pandemic, not hordes of Munchausen hospital squatters. And yes I agree.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:48 pm    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
Kind of data we need more of. Love this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/30/health/coronavirus-restrictions-fevers.html

https://healthweather.us/


That's encouraging. This follows seeing Italy's curve starting to flatten, I believe it's a matter of time and the social distancing is going to start significantly affecting the severity of the growth curve. Hopefully soon several new treatments take this thing down another notch or three.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:18 pm    Post subject:

WHO is taking strange position on some existing drugs and drug cocktails may have some impact on covid19.

https://www.ibtimes.com/coronavirus-treatment-who-confirms-some-drugs-impact-length-severity-covid-19-2949841

[b]The World Health Organization (WHO) is conceding some existing drugs, as well as some drug cocktails, might have some impact on SARS-CoV-2 (severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2), the virus that causes COVID-19.[/b]

The announcement follows a WHO warning made last Friday urging countries to stop using medicines not proven effective against COVID-19. While WHO didn't specify any specific drug, health experts said the warning was directed against an unproven COVID-19 "cure" consisting of the anti-malarial drug chloroquine combined with azithromycin in what's called a drug cocktail.

Chloroquine has been flying-off pharmacy shelves in some countries, including in Africa, after president Donald Trump touted the drug as a readily available cure for COVID-19, despite repeated warnings from doctors the disease has no known drug cure. WHO officials remind the public chloroquine hasn't undergone rigorous clinical trials to prove its safety and efficacy.

Dr. Mike Ryan, executive director of WHO’s health emergencies program, said there is “some preliminary data from non-randomized studies, observational studies, that indicate some drugs and some drug cocktails may have an impact."

“A number of drugs” have shown promise in treating other coronaviruses, including SARS and MERS, that may be helpful in fighting COVID-19, according to Dr. Ryan. He pointed out some of these drugs might impact the length of disease, while others might impact the severity of disease.

“Some of those drugs may impact the length of disease, some may impact the severity of disease and the dosages of those drugs when they’re given to what patient at what stage of the disease has not been standardized,” Ryan said.

He clarified, however, "there’s no proven effective therapeutic or drug against COVID-19."
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:10 am    Post subject:

Italy seems to be in their deceleration phase, this is major good news. If (lets pray) they keep improving, they will reach their "quiescent" (i.e. steady low) infection rates in another couple of weeks.
We're roughly a couple of weeks behind Italy.
IF WE FOLLOW ITALY' COURSE (and we may be able to if we are able to maintain social distancing at the levels similar to theirs), then we could be hitting our peak in another couple of weeks, and then (optimistically) another couple/three weeks to bottom-out the infection. So let's hope we come out of this by the end of May.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:22 am    Post subject:

More positive news, looks like we have conducted roughly a million tests with the advent of private lab testing on/around March 17. See covidtracking.com.
This puts our current testing rate at or above 100,000 tests/day - progress!
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:31 am    Post subject:

anth2000 wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
but the fact is the system is burdened by people who don't need to be hospitalized but are NOT sent home because of the possibility of lawsuits.


It would take more than a rant from some message board to make me believe that "fact."



so you believe all patients staying in hospitals need hospitalization?


Why would you want to stay in a hospital full of sick people if you didn’t need to be hospitalized?


Oh, it really happens. There are people who want to be hospitalized, and there are people whose families want them to be hospitalized. It’s a crazy world out there. If you’ve never heard of it, look up Munchausen Syndrome and Munchausen by Proxy, I have a friend who handles CPS litigation. Munchausen by Proxy pops up in child abuse cases. It’s really twisted.

What I dispute is that this is more than a trivial issue with our hospital and ICU capacity at a time like this.


Hmm, not sure where you are going with this but I will guarantee that 90% of the folks in hospitals, especially those in NYC hospitals currently are there because they need the medical care. It’s not a conspiracy. People are dying and COVID-19 is real.



people are dying and covid19 is real

Duh.

I'm saying some hospitals are already maxxed out pre-covid maybe like the OPs.

Covid19 kills them more.

No need for fakers out there to burden the system.

And if folks like VLF think people will stop coming to the hospital just because of the Pandemic....think again.

If there are malingerers pre-covid, there will be people who will still find a way to capitalize on the current situation.



If OP rants about the traffic does it make the traffic less true?
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:06 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Yeah, right. I'm sure the ICUs in New York are full of people on ventilators who are malingering. This is a load of nonsense. Just think about the logic of the argument. "Doctors admit people to the hospital because they might get sued for medical malpractice if they sent them home." Think about that one. No, I mean really think about it. It's a safe bet that no doctor has ever been successfully sued for medical malpractice for failing to admit a patient who did not actually need to be admitted. Duh.

I'm sure there are people who manage to get admitted to hospitals for whatever reason when they don't really need to be admitted, but the idea that this is a significant problem is silly. This is especially true right now. With the triage conditions in New York, it's likely that all sorts of people who would normally be hospitalized have been sent home. This is the case in Italy. There was a story in this thread or another about someone who got into a car wreck in Italy, was treated in the parking lot of the hospital, and then got sent home.


Who mentioned none of the ICUs are being filled by Covid patients.

They are being filled as we speak.

What the OP was mentioning some hospitals are already maxxed out pre-covid.

Maybe your hospital is not but some definitely are.

These malingerers are part of the problem.

Then comes Covid.


Maybe what he is saying is to cater more to the Covid patients....hospitals should really rethink or re-evaluate their admission policies and improve their facilities.


He is not downplaying Covid he is just puzzled just like me some has downplayed the Flu.


Last edited by Hero Ball on Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:14 am    Post subject:

Hero Ball wrote:

<snip>

Who mentioned none of the ICUs are being filled by Covid patients.

They are being filled as we speak.

What the OP was mentioning some hospitals are already maxxed out pre-covid.

Maybe your hospital is not but some definitely are.

These malingerers are part of the problem.

Then comes Covid.


Maybe what he is saying is to cater more to the Covid patients....hospitals should really rethink or re-evaluate their admission policies and improve their facilities.


He is not downplaying Covid he is just puzzled just like me has downplayed the Flu.


I see, this makes more sense, thanks for clarifying.
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TooMuchMajicBuss
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:42 am    Post subject:

ThePageDude wrote:
More positive news, looks like we have conducted roughly a million tests with the advent of private lab testing on/around March 17. See covidtracking.com.
This puts our current testing rate at or above 100,000 tests/day - progress!


Good. Hopefully soon states won't have to compete against each other anymore just to get these test kits coming in. Particularly the 5 to 15 minute result variety of testing kits.
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