+++ Los Angeles Lakers vs Los Angeles Clippers (03/08/20 - 12:30pm PT) Gm#62 +++
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CervantesRises
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:17 am    Post subject:

Al13 wrote:
man that corona virus is going to do some damage to the NBA Season, NBA has set a conference call with the owners and governors to discuss the next steps...for wednesday afternoon....there will be empty arenas coming up


Stop.
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jodeke
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:24 am    Post subject:

Pureshot77 wrote:
jodeke wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
cooleggs wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
HermosaJoe wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
Frank Vogel: “I believe in Rondo. I always feel good about Rondo out there ... He was huge ... He led the charge”


Again, wow, Vogel is way too obsessed with Rondo IMO. Ronda played ok today......except he should NOT be taking 3 point shots in crunch time!!.......but to say that Ronda "led the charge"? Come on now!!!!


He played 22 minutes and had one good 6 minute stretch in the 3rd quarter when Lebron was resting. He should only play when Lebron is resting.

He was awful in the 1st half, and not great in the 4th quarter. 2-8 FG, 0-2 from 3's and late rotations. It isn't all his fault.

Vogel going with Rondo, Bradley, KCP and asking them to defend Lou, Kawhi, PG13 is on the coach.

Vogel didn't go with the Rondo/Lebron/Dwight trio in the 2nd half and it helped Rondo be less of a negative.


We won... give Frank credit. Whatever he' seeing is working.


We won because we have Lebron James and Avery Bradley played lights out. Vogels coaching was fine, but we didn’t win because of Vogel.

Let the church say AMEN


Just for discussion's sake, when was the last time a team won because of the coach.


Do you remember Phil Jackson? Do you know Greg Popovich? Coaches who know how to use their personal. Look at what Nick Nurse is doing with the Raptors. Vogel's a good coach. I don't think he uses what he has to it highest potential. I'm not a professional coach I'm a fan with an opinion. That's my opinion.
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cooleggs
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:06 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Pureshot77 wrote:
jodeke wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
cooleggs wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
HermosaJoe wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
Frank Vogel: “I believe in Rondo. I always feel good about Rondo out there ... He was huge ... He led the charge”


Again, wow, Vogel is way too obsessed with Rondo IMO. Ronda played ok today......except he should NOT be taking 3 point shots in crunch time!!.......but to say that Ronda "led the charge"? Come on now!!!!


He played 22 minutes and had one good 6 minute stretch in the 3rd quarter when Lebron was resting. He should only play when Lebron is resting.

He was awful in the 1st half, and not great in the 4th quarter. 2-8 FG, 0-2 from 3's and late rotations. It isn't all his fault.

Vogel going with Rondo, Bradley, KCP and asking them to defend Lou, Kawhi, PG13 is on the coach.

Vogel didn't go with the Rondo/Lebron/Dwight trio in the 2nd half and it helped Rondo be less of a negative.


We won... give Frank credit. Whatever he' seeing is working.


We won because we have Lebron James and Avery Bradley played lights out. Vogels coaching was fine, but we didn’t win because of Vogel.

Let the church say AMEN


Just for discussion's sake, when was the last time a team won because of the coach.


Do you remember Phil Jackson? Do you know Greg Popovich? Coaches who know how to use their personal. Look at what Nick Nurse is doing with the Raptors. Vogel's a good coach. I don't think he uses what he has to it highest potential. I'm not a professional coach I'm a fan with an opinion. That's my opinion.


Winning is not a matter of opinion... lol you either do or you don't. My "opinion" is that you hold the players who played and the coaches who coached, accountable for the outcome. How much is up to you. Doe did do some good things (and some bad) so I can see some of Franks reasoning -- as supported by our glorious weekend.
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jodeke
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:48 pm    Post subject:

Long quote trees are undesirable. I cut to save page space. If there is something I said you need to question it's still there.

cooleggs wrote:

Quote:
Winning is not a matter of opinion... lol you either do or you don't. My "opinion" is that you hold the players who played and the coaches who coached, accountable for the outcome. How much is up to you. Doe did do some good things (and some bad) so I can see some of Franks reasoning -- as supported by our glorious weekend.

You asked "When is the last time a team won because of the coach." I gave you some examples.

Yes we have to hold players and coaches accountable. My point is I don't think Vogel is using the talent he has to the best of it's ability. IMO coaches with Pop and Phils acumen would use the talent differently.

From my arm chair coaching seat I question why he puts weak players on the floor at the same time. e.g. Rondo and Kuz. Why isn't he using Caruso more? I don't like his rotations.
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Pureshot77
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:31 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Long quote trees are undesirable. I cut to save page space. If there is something I said you need to question it's still there.

cooleggs wrote:

Quote:
Winning is not a matter of opinion... lol you either do or you don't. My "opinion" is that you hold the players who played and the coaches who coached, accountable for the outcome. How much is up to you. Doe did do some good things (and some bad) so I can see some of Franks reasoning -- as supported by our glorious weekend.

You asked "When is the last time a team won because of the coach." I gave you some examples.

Yes we have to hold players and coaches accountable. My point is I don't think Vogel is using the talent he has to the best of it's ability. IMO coaches with Pop and Phils acumen would use the talent differently.

From my arm chair coaching seat I question why he puts weak players on the floor at the same time. e.g. Rondo and Kuz. Why isn't he using Caruso more? I don't like his rotations.


Phil and Pop are great coaches. It's easy to say a coach is great having the hindsight of championship rings. But let's not forget that even Phil took his sweet time giving more playing time to Ariza and less to Walton. Everyone on LG could probably see that Ariza was the better player. No one is perfect, not even the Zen master. I guess what I'm saying is, we will find out what Vogel is about in the playoffs.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:10 pm    Post subject:

Pureshot77 wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Long quote trees are undesirable. I cut to save page space. If there is something I said you need to question it's still there.

cooleggs wrote:

Quote:
Winning is not a matter of opinion... lol you either do or you don't. My "opinion" is that you hold the players who played and the coaches who coached, accountable for the outcome. How much is up to you. Doe did do some good things (and some bad) so I can see some of Franks reasoning -- as supported by our glorious weekend.

You asked "When is the last time a team won because of the coach." I gave you some examples.

Yes we have to hold players and coaches accountable. My point is I don't think Vogel is using the talent he has to the best of it's ability. IMO coaches with Pop and Phils acumen would use the talent differently.

From my arm chair coaching seat I question why he puts weak players on the floor at the same time. e.g. Rondo and Kuz. Why isn't he using Caruso more? I don't like his rotations.


Phil and Pop are great coaches. It's easy to say a coach is great having the hindsight of championship rings. But let's not forget that even Phil took his sweet time giving more playing time to Ariza and less to Walton. Everyone on LG could probably see that Ariza was the better player. No one is perfect, not even the Zen master. I guess what I'm saying is, we will find out what Vogel is about in the playoffs.

I agree with what you're saying. I'm not denying it. I was answering the question "When is the last time a team won because of the coach?" I gave an answer to that question.

I also said Vogel's a good coach. I don't think he uses what he has to it highest potential. I'm not a professional coach I'm a fan with an opinion. That's my opinion.

I look forward to the playoffs. I'm hoping he does well. In fact I would be elated if he coaches the Lakers to a championship. I'm offering an opinion regarding his coaching now.

Query;
How will you feel about Vogel if the Lakers don't bring home the Larry O'Brien this season?
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Pureshot77
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:26 pm    Post subject:

It depends. If we don't win it all due to injury or something I wouldn't conclude that a new coach is what we are missing to win it all. That being said, the Lakers are a legit championship contender based on performance to date and I think Vogel has little excuse to not seize the opportunity. If we end up flaming out, I think we have to explore ways to improve the team and/or coaching staff.
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ducasse
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:20 am    Post subject:

Pureshot77 wrote:
It depends. If we don't win it all due to injury or something I wouldn't conclude that a new coach is what we are missing to win it all. That being said, the Lakers are a legit championship contender based on performance to date and I think Vogel has little excuse to not seize the opportunity. If we end up flaming out, I think we have to explore ways to improve the team and/or coaching staff.


I think Vogel has very good assistants. It's said he has no ego and will listen to ideas and suggestions. He's always putting a positive spin on things his players do and doesn't criticize them publicly. I'm sure they appreciate that. What would a coaching improvement be, someone hard nosed who is going to yell at the players?
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:40 am    Post subject:

ducasse wrote:
Pureshot77 wrote:
It depends. If we don't win it all due to injury or something I wouldn't conclude that a new coach is what we are missing to win it all. That being said, the Lakers are a legit championship contender based on performance to date and I think Vogel has little excuse to not seize the opportunity. If we end up flaming out, I think we have to explore ways to improve the team and/or coaching staff.


I think Vogel has very good assistants. It's said he has no ego and will listen to ideas and suggestions. He's always putting a positive spin on things his players do and doesn't criticize them publicly. I'm sure they appreciate that. What would a coaching improvement be, someone hard nosed who is going to yell at the players?


Vogel seems to be the best coach we've had in quite a while, but this is the best collection of talent we've had as well in the same span of time. I think the success we've had up to now is due to a bit of both. I don't think a coach that yells necessarily would be better (see PJ). It's just something you have to evaluate. Options might be limited too at that time.
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jodeke
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:08 am    Post subject:

Pureshot77 wrote:
It depends. If we don't win it all due to injury or something I wouldn't conclude that a new coach is what we are missing to win it all. That being said, the Lakers are a legit championship contender based on performance to date and I think Vogel has little excuse to not seize the opportunity. If we end up flaming out, I think we have to explore ways to improve the team and/or coaching staff.

Your post is in agreement with my answering the question "When is the last time a team won because of the coach?"

I'm not saying Vogel's not a good coach. In fact I said he was. I don't like his rotations or combinations. I'm only offering a fans opinion.

I agree with if he doesn't bring home the Larry O'Brien his job may be in jeopardy. I don't think it's fair but that's the nature of the beast.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:37 am    Post subject:

I would differentiate "the last time a team won because of the coach" with "a team with a good coach won the championship". It's not a perfect association.

I understand that you don't like his rotations or combinations.

Can't wait until the playoffs start. Go Lakers!
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jodeke
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:37 am    Post subject:

Pureshot77 wrote:
I would differentiate "the last time a team won because of the coach" with "a team with a good coach won the championship". It's not a perfect association.

I understand that you don't like his rotations or combinations.

Can't wait until the playoffs start. Go Lakers!

Am I correct in thinking you're saying the Lakers and Spurs ships weren't because of Phil and Greg?

Yeah haven't been this stoked about the Lakers for awhile. Go Lakers bring the Larry O'Brien back to Staples.
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Last edited by jodeke on Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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Pureshot77
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:52 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Pureshot77 wrote:
I would differentiate "the last time a team won because of the coach" with "a team with a good coach won the championship". It's not a perfect association.

I understand that you don't like his rotations or combinations.

Can't wait until the playoffs start. Go Lakers!

Am I correct in thinking you're saying the Lakers and Spurs ship weren't because of Phil and Greg?

Yeah haven't been this stoked about the Lakers for awhile. Go Lakers bring the Larry O'Brien back to Staples.


I'm saying it wasn't only because of them.
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jodeke
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:01 pm    Post subject:

Pureshot77 wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Pureshot77 wrote:
I would differentiate "the last time a team won because of the coach" with "a team with a good coach won the championship". It's not a perfect association.

I understand that you don't like his rotations or combinations.

Can't wait until the playoffs start. Go Lakers!

Am I correct in thinking you're saying the Lakers and Spurs ship weren't because of Phil and Greg?

Yeah haven't been this stoked about the Lakers for awhile. Go Lakers bring the Larry O'Brien back to Staples.


I'm saying it wasn't only because of them.


Not totally. Not many coaches won back to back or 3 peated? I've seen teams with talent but didn't have the right coach e.g. Mike D'Antoni with the Lakers and now Houston. Systems win ships. Coaches construct systems.

Taking it outside the NBA. IMO Belichick is the reason for the Pats success.

Those examples lends to the question I was answering. "When is the last time a team won because of the coach?"

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