2020 Toyota Supra
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999
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:38 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Gotta look at when the torque is delivered and the relative fuel efficiency.

The BMW motor is ahead there.

The 2jz is legend not just for it's performance, but reliability, especially with power upgrades, but people don't think of the turbo last e or the unnecessary complexity of a twin turbo setup.

If Toyotas adjustments to that BMW engine have similar effect, it may be legendary too.


I wish Toyota used the n54 engine and made adjustments to it. Why couldn’t they use the 2+2 chassis?
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:46 pm    Post subject:

999 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Gotta look at when the torque is delivered and the relative fuel efficiency.

The BMW motor is ahead there.

The 2jz is legend not just for it's performance, but reliability, especially with power upgrades, but people don't think of the turbo last e or the unnecessary complexity of a twin turbo setup.

If Toyotas adjustments to that BMW engine have similar effect, it may be legendary too.


I wish Toyota used the n54 engine and made adjustments to it. Why couldn’t they use the 2+2 chassis?


Because that would require actual engineering work. Rebodying what is essentially a Z4 with the same 2 seat configuration requires little to no effort.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:45 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
999 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Gotta look at when the torque is delivered and the relative fuel efficiency.

The BMW motor is ahead there.

The 2jz is legend not just for it's performance, but reliability, especially with power upgrades, but people don't think of the turbo last e or the unnecessary complexity of a twin turbo setup.

If Toyotas adjustments to that BMW engine have similar effect, it may be legendary too.


I wish Toyota used the n54 engine and made adjustments to it. Why couldn’t they use the 2+2 chassis?


Because that would require actual engineering work. Rebodying what is essentially a Z4 with the same 2 seat configuration requires little to no effort.


Low development costs and charge premium price for this car. Sounds about right.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:24 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
999 wrote:
Here are the facts on the development of this car. Very good video

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_jbyzmtgU_0


The best part is knowing Magna Steyr helps build it and combining the goals of both manufacturers in the build and the revised engineering tests by Toyota with the motor, though I still have some slight skepticism considering some issues with the FA20 block in the FRS/BRZ/GT86.

I dunno man. The Supra would have sold me on the styling first, just as it did on the Supra IV, but right off the bat, they refrained from the golden ratio and compromised it slightly to make something work with convertibles/hard tops alike.

This isn't a carbon fiber tub where little to no redesign is required for having a convertible/removable top. Add to that, the take away of the low/flat/wide stance from the 2014 concept, and I'm still a Porsche guy for the money.

At least with the FRS/BRZ/GR86, I can understand the styling cues away from the concept, because it's built to a price point.

This has the same vibe, from the collaboration, to the compromise in chassis design, to the use of BMW parts (even if it's tuned by Toyota) for the suspension and engine.

When the Supra IV came out, I thought of it as a grand tourer considering the weight. I could forgive the weight because the entire car was bespoke. At least back then, the Mr2 was the dedicate hardcore sports car, much in the way of what the GT86 is supposed to be, but left underpowered. The Supra tries to implement more sport into it. It didn't work with the 370z (when I love the 370z vs the 350z), but at least that was a $32-$40k car, not a $50k.

The formula doesn't have to be so complicated.

N/A
Manual
RWD
Engine placement optional

I only get 2 of those. Modern 6 cyls have the horsepower output of yesterdecades turbo engines.

I'd rather wait until LC500s drop to $50k.


I have to wait till I see it in person, but dang the car just looks frumpy. The glass area of the greenhouse is just so small with the gun slit side windows, probably makes the carmaro seem easy to see out of. Then there is the ugly open wheel/F1 style nose and the overly pinched ducktail spoiler. To me the back of cars should be wide and low, not round and pinched. Aero be damned!

I read an interview where the design staff brought up the 2000GT. This supra sadly looks nothing like the 2000GT, which is IMO hands down the best looking Japanese car ever.

And can I say that performance cars are way to heavy now?
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:43 am    Post subject:

999 wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
999 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Gotta look at when the torque is delivered and the relative fuel efficiency.

The BMW motor is ahead there.

The 2jz is legend not just for it's performance, but reliability, especially with power upgrades, but people don't think of the turbo last e or the unnecessary complexity of a twin turbo setup.

If Toyotas adjustments to that BMW engine have similar effect, it may be legendary too.


I wish Toyota used the n54 engine and made adjustments to it. Why couldn’t they use the 2+2 chassis?


Because that would require actual engineering work. Rebodying what is essentially a Z4 with the same 2 seat configuration requires little to no effort.


Low development costs and charge premium price for this car. Sounds about right.

Seeing how the MKIV Supra would start around 70k in today's money, I can see why they did everything they could to contain costs. Re-engineering the chassis to be a 2+2 configuration would add to the development costs and no doubt the car would handle differently, not to mention since the dynamics of the car changed, they would probably have to do a separate crash testing. Whereas a rebodied Z4, which this Supra essentially is, wouldn't add much to the costs that were already set for a shared platform. Plus if it doesn't sell well, they could use most of the parts for the Z4 production line.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:58 pm    Post subject:

22 wrote:
Camaro 1LE is no joke. I’d still go with a Stang though because you can fit wearing a helmet. Big deal if you like to do track days


Yeah hats of to Chevy for making a far superior car than the Mustang. I can't believe that the Camaro is now lighter, faster and handles better. I mean I would love to have a GT350 but damn they still have a huge dealer mark up and that car is also very heavy unless you get the ever more marked up track version with the CF wheels. 1LE probably is faster on the track than the Shelby now as well for a lot less $$.

The main issue with the Camaro is the visibility- a damn shame cause there is no easy fix for that.

My Boss 302 is paid off now and can hang with the GT350 and 1LE (manual version) in a straight line so that will have to be good enough. That GT500 though...

Also would consider a V8 swapped new Miata or a BRZ if they ever turbocharged that thing.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:20 pm    Post subject:

Dr. Funkbot wrote:
22 wrote:
Camaro 1LE is no joke. I’d still go with a Stang though because you can fit wearing a helmet. Big deal if you like to do track days


Yeah hats of to Chevy for making a far superior car than the Mustang. I can't believe that the Camaro is now lighter, faster and handles better. I mean I would love to have a GT350 but damn they still have a huge dealer mark up and that car is also very heavy unless you get the ever more marked up track version with the CF wheels. 1LE probably is faster on the track than the Shelby now as well for a lot less $$.

The main issue with the Camaro is the visibility- a damn shame cause there is no easy fix for that.

My Boss 302 is paid off now and can hang with the GT350 and 1LE (manual version) in a straight line so that will have to be good enough. That GT500 though...

Also would consider a V8 swapped new Miata or a BRZ if they ever turbocharged that thing.


Camaro’s advantage is it’s on a newer platform. That should change with the next gen stang, although Ford’s current CEO is not big on performance so they might skimp out.

I don’t like performance cars being so heavy either, but it’s due to all the safety requirements and the creature comforts people like.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:24 am    Post subject:

Quote:


I have to wait till I see it in person, but dang the car just looks frumpy. The glass area of the greenhouse is just so small with the gun slit side windows, probably makes the carmaro seem easy to see out of. Then there is the ugly open wheel/F1 style nose and the overly pinched ducktail spoiler. To me the back of cars should be wide and low, not round and pinched. Aero be damned!

I read an interview where the design staff brought up the 2000GT. This supra sadly looks nothing like the 2000GT, which is IMO hands down the best looking Japanese car ever.

And can I say that performance cars are way to heavy now?
_


Can't imitate 2000GT lines if the design ratios can't be replicated. It's even tougher when it's a shared chassis.

About performance cars, it just depends.

Porsche tends to have the lightest ones that are daily drivable considering Lotus isn't really a seller with the Evora.

But my idea of performance is different and not based on HP.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:24 am    Post subject:

Quote:


I have to wait till I see it in person, but dang the car just looks frumpy. The glass area of the greenhouse is just so small with the gun slit side windows, probably makes the carmaro seem easy to see out of. Then there is the ugly open wheel/F1 style nose and the overly pinched ducktail spoiler. To me the back of cars should be wide and low, not round and pinched. Aero be damned!

I read an interview where the design staff brought up the 2000GT. This supra sadly looks nothing like the 2000GT, which is IMO hands down the best looking Japanese car ever.

And can I say that performance cars are way to heavy now?
_


Can't imitate 2000GT lines if the design ratios can't be replicated. It's even tougher when it's a shared chassis.

About performance cars, it just depends.

Porsche tends to have the lightest ones that are daily drivable considering Lotus isn't really a seller with the Evora.

But my idea of performance is different and not based on HP.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:47 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:


I have to wait till I see it in person, but dang the car just looks frumpy. The glass area of the greenhouse is just so small with the gun slit side windows, probably makes the carmaro seem easy to see out of. Then there is the ugly open wheel/F1 style nose and the overly pinched ducktail spoiler. To me the back of cars should be wide and low, not round and pinched. Aero be damned!

I read an interview where the design staff brought up the 2000GT. This supra sadly looks nothing like the 2000GT, which is IMO hands down the best looking Japanese car ever.

And can I say that performance cars are way to heavy now?
_


Can't imitate 2000GT lines if the design ratios can't be replicated. It's even tougher when it's a shared chassis.

About performance cars, it just depends.

Porsche tends to have the lightest ones that are daily drivable considering Lotus isn't really a seller with the Evora.

But my idea of performance is different and not based on HP.


I like to have both, I want light weight and lots of power- basically the Cobra is the blueprint for my favorite cars. I like V8 swapped Miatas and Silvias.

This new Supra is only 150 lbs lighter than my Boss Mustang, that's just crazy. Also the new M2 weighs as much as my Mustang- and the M4.

Oh well, I just read that the BRZ is coming back for round 2 and it might actually get a 2.4 liter motor with some extra power.

The new Cayman with the 4.0 flat 6 should be pretty cool.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:22 pm    Post subject:

I think an '08 Cayman base 2.7 with a 5-speed is criminally underrated.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:38 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
I think an '08 Cayman base 2.7 with a 5-speed is criminally underrated.
Sure is. I think I'd rather have a 981 though. That naturally aspirated flat 6 is a joy plus the body changes pretty much made it my favorite porsche. I still love the new 718 regardless of all the hate it's been getting due to the 4 pot turbo and the sound which I don't mind at all.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:07 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
22 wrote:
How much is that Taycan gonna run? $100k+?


There's supposed to be 3 levels; like a Taycan, Taycan S, and maybe a Taycan GTS?

But I read it goes base 85k and works its way up.

If Porsche has electric torque transfer to make up for 4-wheel steering, I'd get one as base as possible.


At the moment you can get a Taycan 4S, Turbo, and Turbo S. They also has a version called the Cross Turismo coming soon.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:28 pm    Post subject:

A patron rolled by here the other day in the new Z4. It's absolutely GORGEOUS in person.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:59 am    Post subject:

Vancouver Fan wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
I think an '08 Cayman base 2.7 with a 5-speed is criminally underrated.
Sure is. I think I'd rather have a 981 though. That naturally aspirated flat 6 is a joy plus the body changes pretty much made it my favorite porsche. I still love the new 718 regardless of all the hate it's been getting due to the 4 pot turbo and the sound which I don't mind at all.


And, of course it's going back to the 6.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:07 am    Post subject:

I don't know if anyone has seen a Supra in person but I finally did. I know I stated it was beautiful earlier in this thread but to see it in person...ugh. Just ugh. Everything looks so disjointed. It reminds me of the 3000GT of yesteryear. Of the Japanese GT's of that era, I personally thought it was donkey dick. It felt like a completely basic sports car design that a teenager would have drawn during that era that they slapped lines and extra panels on. EXACTLY how I felt the Supra in front of me looked. Awful. ZERO FLOW.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:42 am    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
I don't know if anyone has seen a Supra in person but I finally did. I know I stated it was beautiful earlier in this thread but to see it in person...ugh. Just ugh. Everything looks so disjointed. It reminds me of the 3000GT of yesteryear. Of the Japanese GT's of that era, I personally thought it was donkey dick. It felt like a completely basic sports car design that a teenager would have drawn during that era that they slapped lines and extra panels on. EXACTLY how I felt the Supra in front of me looked. Awful. ZERO FLOW.


I find it unfortunate that they tried to keep it in the confines of a 97+" wheelbase. The shortened wheelbase makes the curves/angles steeper than they need to be.

100" wheelbase would have been great.

Easier to see here.

https://www.supramkv.com/attachments/12498/
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:22 pm    Post subject:

It looks like an frs/brz to me. If i were to spend north of 60k i'd want it to look different.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 5:51 pm    Post subject:

nickuku wrote:
It looks like an frs/brz to me. If i were to spend north of 60k i'd want it to look different.


It's even worse in person imo.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:55 pm    Post subject:

The design is handicapped by it being on the same platform as a Z4.
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