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SGV-Laker fan
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 Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| Derrick Rose serves a need on this team. that role Kuzma was not able to deliver, which was a proven scorer off the bench. with AD back, Kuz will be back on the bench, and we need that sure fire scorer off the bench when LeBron and/or AD are resting. with that said, i'm not for trading Kuz for Rose straight up, we have to get some kind of asset back along with Rose, preferably a future 1st rounder, or a couple 2nd rounders. |
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Joe Pesci
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| iimarshon wrote: | 1. What's a bigger need? A scoring guard (Rose) or a bigger wing defender (Covington)?
2. If we traded for Rose and got Markieff included can he help guard guys like Kawhi? Ive always thought he was more of a 4/5 whereas Marcus is more of a 4/3, so not sure if Kief could help in terms of getting a bigger wing defender type.
3. Can Darren Collison be a scoring/creating guard? I know he can shoot 3's effectively, has good assists and plays good D but is he a creator/attacker too? I hadn't paid a ton of attention to Collison.
I think we should sign Collison either way. Even if we get Rose, Collison can start and Rose can be the scoring punch off the bench.
My concern with Rose is im not sure he will close games with us since he hasn't been a good 3pt shooter this season and isn't a great defender.
I am open to trading Kuzma but just want to make sure we're not being too shortsighted.
If we traded Kuz for RoCo and signed Collison, my concern is, are we still short another playmaker? When we play good defenses its obvious when we have a big need for someone like Rose.
But I also think games like Celtics -- and when we play Kawhi -- show that we need someone bigger that KCP/Green who can guard guys like Kawhi. |
Thoughtful post here.
The needs for a wing defender and creative scorer are just about equal. I probably give the edge ever so slightly to the creative scorer, but it's neglible. I think the creative scorer is harder to find whereas the wing defender can be filled easier.
Your idea that Rose may not be in the closing lineup every night is accurate. I look at Rose as an instant offense role-player. He'd split minutes with Collison and, like you said, on some nights, even when he's having a great night offensively, may not end games. I'm fine with that because he makes the team better, filling the instant offense/Kuzma role better than Kuzma.
Markieff Morris should not be viewed as a possible wing defender solution. As you said, he's a 4 who can guard a little at center and not be completely abused when switching onto smaller players.
Collison is a 3&D point guard ... think Fisher. He is not offensively dynamic at all. He doesn't even shoot a lot of threes, probably not enough to be dubbed a "shooter" as I've called him several times. He is a safe, quick, defensively-minded little guard who can hit spot-up jumpers and play with heart and toughness. He's another Danny Green/Avery Bradley, and in my opinion you can't have enough of those guys.
I'm in favor of Rose and Morris for Kuzna and filler. I'd start there. I, like you, wouldn't hesitate in signing Collison as well.
To fill the wing defender need I look to package Horton-Tucker with Cousins, McGee, and/or Bradley for someone who I feel strongly will make a difference (ie. Iguodala). If that route fails, I sign a qualified buyout player or a current free agent like Mbah a Moute, Brewer, or Jonathan Simmons.
Again, good post.
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anth2000
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | Chris Haynes reported it.
| Quote: | Chris Haynes
@ChrisBHaynes
19h
Yahoo Sources: Los Angeles Lakers, Philadelphia 76ers among teams that have expressed interest in trading for Detroit Pistons star Derrick Rose. |
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Thanks for confirming...I just didn't recall seeing it. Is Chris Haynes even legit anymore? Just curious... |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:26 am Post subject: |
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The reason you don’t deal Kuzma for Rose is because we didn’t have the foresight to add a backup to AD. As far as production, you definitely replace Kuz with Rose. As was already mentioned he brings what we need Kuzma to bring.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:28 am Post subject: |
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Kuzma is a longterm asset, Rose is a short one. Unlike AD, where the anticipation is that he will be a 5-6 year asset for the Lakers, Rose will be gone in a year or so. You do not trade a longterm asset for a player that will be there a year. If I trade Kuzma, I trade him for a piece that can put us over the top talent wise longterm. A 3rd star.
It has nothing to do with backing up AD. Dudley and Lebron easily could slide in and take AD's backup minutes. We have bigs in Howard and McGee that filled in great for AD when he was out. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | Derrick Rose serves a need on this team. that role Kuzma was not able to deliver, which was a proven scorer off the bench. with AD back, Kuz will be back on the bench, and we need that sure fire scorer off the bench when LeBron and/or AD are resting. with that said, i'm not for trading Kuz for Rose straight up, we have to get some kind of asset back along with Rose, preferably a future 1st rounder, or a couple 2nd rounders. |
I just don't get this ... when AD was out, Kuzma was arguably the most important player for the team. He filled in not only for AD as a 2nd option, he filled in a game where Lebron sat, as a 1st option. If you put Rose in the same usage that Kuzma has, his numbers will go down.
Rose is averaging 18 points, but shooting only 31.3% from 3 less than 1 three pointer made a game, and is a bad defender. His usage rate is 31.4
Kuzma is averaging 13 points, shooting 33.9% from 3 making 1.6 from there, is a pretty good defender now and his usage rate is 23.8
If Rose is in Kuzma's role and usage rate, his numbers will go down. Teams will clog the paint even more with Rose out there, just like they do with Rondo as his 3 ball is not a threat at all. Come playoffs it will be easier to defend the Lakers.
I don't mind a Cook/Daniels/THT or 2nd round pick for Rose deal. Rose can give you scoring when Lebron sits. We need that. 6 minutes in each half, and maybe a bit more minutes. However I would not even think about putting him in the same role as he is in Detroit where is at 31.4% usage and playing the most minutes at PG. That is not the identity of this team. |
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audioaxes
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:35 am Post subject: |
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Rose is definitely an improvement on this team but I'd rather spring for Bogdanovic if possible. Not only can he lead units when Lebron is not in, he is also a good fit with Lebron on the court as well.
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iimarshon
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | troy wrote: | | I like our team chemistry, but if someone had to go, it would be Mr. Avery Bradley. |
See no reason Detroit would do that. I think Detroit will simply want a draft pick, or a young asset.
Rose makes about 7M right? I think we would be able to swing the deal using Cook, Daniels, and THT. I think the deal works salary wise. The Pistons get a pretty young backup combo guard in Cook, and they get a guy with potential in THT.
THT and Cook are klutch assets though.
IMO Kuzma is major overpaying for Rose. |
Someone will likely pay more than THT.
Rose is top 6th man of the year, almost a borderline all star and is locked up next year for only 7m too.
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Joe Pesci
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| 2019 wrote: | | anth2000 wrote: | | I don't think adding Rose makes our team better... |
I've gone back and forth on this. Would he make us more dangerous off the bench and play the Lou Will role? Yes. Is trading Kuzma for him a wise choice? No. But, we need to all we can to win this year and worry about the future in the future.
I personally feel if we can make it Kuzma, Daniels, and Cook for Rose and Morris then sign Collison, we'd be a great shape but it's tough to lose Kuzma for "so little".
McGee, Dwight, Boogie
AD, Morris, Dudley
LeBron, KCP
Green, Bradley, Caruso
Collison, Rose, Rondo
I mean, I guess if it were Marcus Morris that would excite me. |
If Pelinka had've did his job in the offseason, there would've been no need to trade Kuzma because guys like Derrick Rose and Ronde Hollis-Jefferson would already be here.
Glad to see you coming around to the tunnel vision plan of doing everything possible to win now.
For the record, I've always been against sbedding young guys to win now, but the moment the Lakers gave up the farm for Davis I knew it was all or nothing.
You don't trade almost your entire stable of youngsters to appease your 35 year old franchise player then hold on to the last couple of morsels (of young players) because you're "ensuring the Lakers' future is intact".
At this point, you can't do both. You can't hold on for the future and go all in for a ring.
It could've been possible if they waited for Davis instead of selling the farm, but once that trade was completed, coupled with Lakers' early season success, the Lakers made their bed of winning a title ... even if it means selling the last few puppies on the farm to reach thst end.
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SGV-Laker fan
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| audioaxes wrote: | | Rose is definitely an improvement on this team but I'd rather spring for Bogdanovic if possible. Not only can he lead units when Lebron is not in, he is also a good fit with Lebron on the court as well. |
agreed, bogdanovic would be my number 1 choice too, he's younger than Rose, better outside shooter than Rose, not much as a ball hog then Rose, but is not afraid and is capable of hitting big shots. |
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iimarshon
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | Kuzma is a longterm asset, Rose is a short one. Unlike AD, where the anticipation is that he will be a 5-6 year asset for the Lakers, Rose will be gone in a year or so. You do not trade a longterm asset for a player that will be there a year. If I trade Kuzma, I trade him for a piece that can put us over the top talent wise longterm. A 3rd star.
It has nothing to do with backing up AD. Dudley and Lebron easily could slide in and take AD's backup minutes. We have bigs in Howard and McGee that filled in great for AD when he was out. |
You do if it can potentially get you a championship.
Were in win now mode.
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King Randle
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| audioaxes wrote: | | Rose is definitely an improvement on this team but I'd rather spring for Bogdanovic if possible. Not only can he lead units when Lebron is not in, he is also a good fit with Lebron on the court as well. |
Definitely agree with this. Especially after they just traded for Bazemore |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Rose makes about 7M right? I think we would be able to swing the deal using Cook, Daniels, and THT. I think the deal works salary wise. The Pistons get a pretty young backup combo guard in Cook, and they get a guy with potential in THT. |
I doubt the Pistons would go for this. They had the opportunity to draft THT right before we did and went with Isaiah Roby instead so there is no indication they have any interest in him. Cook really has no value. He's just a deep bench guy right now. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| anth2000 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Chris Haynes reported it.
| Quote: | Chris Haynes
@ChrisBHaynes
19h
Yahoo Sources: Los Angeles Lakers, Philadelphia 76ers among teams that have expressed interest in trading for Detroit Pistons star Derrick Rose. |
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Thanks for confirming...I just didn't recall seeing it. Is Chris Haynes even legit anymore? Just curious... |
Very legit.
I have him, WOJ, Shams as my basketball reasons notifications on Twitter.
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vasashi17+
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:22 am Post subject: |
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With recent rumors of Miami targeting Jrue, DeRozan and Aldridge, maybe pulling out from the Cp3 bidding has something to do with this:
| Quote: | Paul's $44.2million player option for the 2021-22 season is seen as a major obstacle in potential trade talks, but the 15-year point guard has no plan to give it up in pursuit of a ring.
"No chance. That's not happening. Nope," Paul told Sports Illustrated.
He continued: "People always try to tell your story. I'm just in the moment. If something happens and I get moved, I'll make adjustments. For now, I get to hoop. I get to play. My body feels good. I'm excited.
https://sports.yahoo.com/chris-paul-won-apos-t-164546660.html
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Also it looks like Jrue, Redick, Favors and other potential title chasers are being held on ice by Griff till their playoff chances completely dissipate.
https://mobile.twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1219684837025599488
Remember, they are the only team we can realistically trade a future 1st round with (by having them ease off other protections of the future picks they already own if ours).
In terms of trading our 2020 1st in any trade this season, we can’t do it unless it’s loaded with conditions and provisions. For example, 2020 1st conveys to team X if 2021 pick is not top 8 and conveys to Pels. If it does convey to Pels, then 2020 1st becomes 2023/24 future 2nds. |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| The more I think about it the more I’m getting excited about getting Derrick Rose but it would be a bummer to see Kuzma go. |
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| Rose only has to average 8 ppg alongside Lebron and AD to replace Kuzma's production. |
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AFireInside619
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:40 am Post subject: |
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| iimarshon wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | Kuzma is a longterm asset, Rose is a short one. Unlike AD, where the anticipation is that he will be a 5-6 year asset for the Lakers, Rose will be gone in a year or so. You do not trade a longterm asset for a player that will be there a year. If I trade Kuzma, I trade him for a piece that can put us over the top talent wise longterm. A 3rd star.
It has nothing to do with backing up AD. Dudley and Lebron easily could slide in and take AD's backup minutes. We have bigs in Howard and McGee that filled in great for AD when he was out. |
You do if it can potentially get you a championship.
Were in win now mode. |
Kuz has been putting the aaassss in asset. |
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mad55557777
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| who are some potential buyout candidates? |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| AFireInside619 wrote: | | iimarshon wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | Kuzma is a longterm asset, Rose is a short one. Unlike AD, where the anticipation is that he will be a 5-6 year asset for the Lakers, Rose will be gone in a year or so. You do not trade a longterm asset for a player that will be there a year. If I trade Kuzma, I trade him for a piece that can put us over the top talent wise longterm. A 3rd star.
It has nothing to do with backing up AD. Dudley and Lebron easily could slide in and take AD's backup minutes. We have bigs in Howard and McGee that filled in great for AD when he was out. |
You do if it can potentially get you a championship.
Were in win now mode. |
Kuz has been putting the aaassss in asset. |
The ironic thing was when he talked about how he didn't want to be on a bad team putting up stats.
Well, you're on the 2nd best team in the NBA and...
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Inspector Gadget
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Inspector Gadget
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| iimarshon wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | Kuzma is a longterm asset, Rose is a short one. Unlike AD, where the anticipation is that he will be a 5-6 year asset for the Lakers, Rose will be gone in a year or so. You do not trade a longterm asset for a player that will be there a year. If I trade Kuzma, I trade him for a piece that can put us over the top talent wise longterm. A 3rd star.
It has nothing to do with backing up AD. Dudley and Lebron easily could slide in and take AD's backup minutes. We have bigs in Howard and McGee that filled in great for AD when he was out. |
You do if it can potentially get you a championship.
Were in win now mode. |
We gave up the future when we signed Lebron
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Jesusdelonla
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | Kuzma is a longterm asset, Rose is a short one. Unlike AD, where the anticipation is that he will be a 5-6 year asset for the Lakers, Rose will be gone in a year or so. You do not trade a longterm asset for a player that will be there a year. If I trade Kuzma, I trade him for a piece that can put us over the top talent wise longterm. A 3rd star.
It has nothing to do with backing up AD. Dudley and Lebron easily could slide in and take AD's backup minutes. We have bigs in Howard and McGee that filled in great for AD when he was out. |
Perfect, this is my thinking as well |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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Bear in mind, Kuz is technically eligible for an extension this summer, and then hits RFA in 2021.
Out of ALL the YUTES we had, Lakers only kept JC. Would the Lakers extend Kuz long term? Who knows.
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