Honest discussion about Pit Bull dogs?
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:37 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Some remarks are racists no matter where the arrow is aimed.


Not if a word is ambiguous and has double/triple meanings.

Puerto Rico refers to the people
Puerto Rico also refers to the government
And Puerto Rico can refer to the US Territory

It’s only racists if you are referring to the people.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:40 pm    Post subject:

For the record, the statement, "we aren't puerto rico..." is itself erroneous, because we are Americans and so are they.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:41 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
For the record, the statement, "we aren't puerto rico..." is itself erroneous, because we are Americans and so are they.


Yet they have their own Olympic team separate from the USA team.

There isn’t a California Olympic team

When Tito Trinidad fought Oscar de la Hoya, it wasn’t 2 Americans fighting each other.


Last edited by LongBeachPoly on Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:43 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Some remarks are racists no matter where the arrow is aimed.


Not if a word is ambiguous and has double/triple meanings.

Puerto Rico refers to the people
Puerto Rico also refers to the government
And Puerto Rico can refer to the US Territory

It’s only racists if you are referring to the people.

In the eyes of the interpreter. We're not discussing a word, we're discussing a phrase.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:45 pm    Post subject:

Just my opinion, but I think it's irresponsible of any parent with a small child at home to have any of the dog breeds with more dangerous, aggressive bites, and among those are pit bulls. You can include Rottweilers and other breeds. Like, could any dog get angry and, in theory, wig out and bite? Sure. But my mixed terrier, even if he for some reason got angry and showed his teeth, isn't going to inflict serious damage on the same level that we've seen pit bulls and other breeds clearly do. So that's where I am on the issue.

That said, pit bulls are awesome dogs if all environments are equal.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:47 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
For the record, the statement, "we aren't puerto rico..." is itself erroneous, because we are Americans and so are they.


Yet they have their own Olympic team separate from the USA team.

There isn’t a California Olympic team


So they aren't Americans?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:49 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Some remarks are racists no matter where the arrow is aimed.


Not if a word is ambiguous and has double/triple meanings.

Puerto Rico refers to the people
Puerto Rico also refers to the government
And Puerto Rico can refer to the US Territory

It’s only racists if you are referring to the people.

In the eyes of the interpreter. We're not discussing a word, we're discussing a phrase.


Which is an easy fix.

Because if Adkindo meant to criticize the government or the territory and not the people, he can just reword it to make it clear and everyone would be happy.

He can reword the phrase to state we shouldn’t be like Puerto Rico (the US territory).

Now the interpreter and the speaker can both agree that it’s not a racist statement.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:56 pm    Post subject:

No one has mentioned Poodles. If I'm not mistaken a dog bred to hunt. I know they are very temperamental.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:57 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
For the record, the statement, "we aren't puerto rico..." is itself erroneous, because we are Americans and so are they.


Yet they have their own Olympic team separate from the USA team.

There isn’t a California Olympic team


So they aren't Americans?


It’s all context.

In the Olympics no.

They have their own medal count. Their medals don’t count in the USA tally.

As far as laws, same thing. They are semi autonomous.

As far as voting, no. They can’t vote in Puerto Rico.

You can say we aren’t Puerto Rico and be correct, depends on what you’re trying to convey.

Are you talking about the different sets of laws between the US and Puerto Rico?

It’d be like a Californian saying we aren’t Texas.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:02 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
It’d be like a Californian saying we aren’t Texas.


And we are definitely fortunate we are for that.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:11 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
jodeke wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Some remarks are racists no matter where the arrow is aimed.


Not if a word is ambiguous and has double/triple meanings.

Puerto Rico refers to the people
Puerto Rico also refers to the government
And Puerto Rico can refer to the US Territory

It’s only racists if you are referring to the people.

In the eyes of the interpreter. We're not discussing a word, we're discussing a phrase.


Which is an easy fix.

Because if Adkindo meant to criticize the government or the territory and not the people, he can just reword it to make it clear and everyone would be happy.

He can reword the phrase to state we shouldn’t be like Puerto Rico (the US territory).

Now the interpreter and the speaker can both agree that it’s not a racist statement.


Key phrase in bold. If not made clear it can be interpreted.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:14 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
jodeke wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Some remarks are racists no matter where the arrow is aimed.


Not if a word is ambiguous and has double/triple meanings.

Puerto Rico refers to the people
Puerto Rico also refers to the government
And Puerto Rico can refer to the US Territory

It’s only racists if you are referring to the people.

In the eyes of the interpreter. We're not discussing a word, we're discussing a phrase.


Which is an easy fix.

Because if Adkindo meant to criticize the government or the territory and not the people, he can just reword it to make it clear and everyone would be happy.

He can reword the phrase to state we shouldn’t be like Puerto Rico (the US territory).

Now the interpreter and the speaker can both agree that it’s not a racist statement.


Key phrase in bold. If not made clear it can be interpreted.


Agreed.

But the actual crime could either be racist intention or just unclearly phrased.

Jodeke says that it’s always a racist comment.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:17 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
For the record, the statement, "we aren't puerto rico..." is itself erroneous, because we are Americans and so are they.


Yet they have their own Olympic team separate from the USA team.

There isn’t a California Olympic team


So they aren't Americans?


It’s all context.

In the Olympics no.

They have their own medal count. Their medals don’t count in the USA tally.

As far as laws, same thing. They are semi autonomous.

As far as voting, no. They can’t vote in Puerto Rico.

You can say we aren’t Puerto Rico and be correct, depends on what you’re trying to convey.

Are you talking about the different sets of laws between the US and Puerto Rico?

It’d be like a Californian saying we aren’t Texas.


A white man talking about how we aren't barbarians (that's the clear implication, no matter how the semantics of language are parsed) like a certain Latinx territory is not like a generic CA vs TX statement. It is loaded with a lot more. And what's more, it was rather superfluous to the point being made. Strike the whole sentence and there's no information lost in the point. Except to take a shot at Puerto Rico, which is bound to cause people to react a certain way. Fairly predictably so. It stuck out like a sore thumb, and I have plenty of reason to suspect that was not unintentional.

So I will give the letter of the law benefit of the doubt, but I'm pretty sure this wasn't an "oops, I never figured that would happen" happen moment.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:20 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
For the record, the statement, "we aren't puerto rico..." is itself erroneous, because we are Americans and so are they.


Yet they have their own Olympic team separate from the USA team.

There isn’t a California Olympic team


So they aren't Americans?


It’s all context.

In the Olympics no.

They have their own medal count. Their medals don’t count in the USA tally.

As far as laws, same thing. They are semi autonomous.

As far as voting, no. They can’t vote in Puerto Rico.

You can say we aren’t Puerto Rico and be correct, depends on what you’re trying to convey.

Are you talking about the different sets of laws between the US and Puerto Rico?

It’d be like a Californian saying we aren’t Texas.


A white man talking about how we aren't barbarians (that's the clear implication, no matter how the semantics of language are parsed) like a certain Latinx territory is not like a generic CA vs TX statement. It is loaded with a lot more. And what's more, it was rather superfluous to the point being made. Strike the whole sentence and there's no information lost in the point. Except to take a shot at Puerto Rico, which is bound to cause people to react a certain way. Fairly predictably so. It stuck out like a sore thumb, and I have plenty of reason to suspect that was not unintentional.

So I will give the letter of the law benefit of the doubt, but I'm pretty sure this wasn't an "oops, I never figured that would happen" happen moment.


Agreed. It’s a trigger word, best to avoid or just make it clear you’re not talking about the people.

Regarding “barbarians” see the article I quoted which used the same word when talking about co.ckfighting.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:24 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
It’d be like a Californian saying we aren’t Texas.


And we are definitely fortunate we are for that.


Oddly enough, we feel fortunate, too.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:28 pm    Post subject:

I’ll cut Adkindo slack because I’m confident that he meant that animal fighting in PR is low class and barbaric, not that PR as a whole is low class and barbaric.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:29 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
I’ll cut Adkindo slack because I’m confident that he meant that animal fighting in PR is low class and barbaric, not that PR as a whole is low class and barbaric.


That’s exactly how I read it too.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:35 pm    Post subject:

"We can't tolerate this low class and barbaric activity" reads fine. Tagging on, "this isn't Puerto Rico" is pointing out that THEY do. Gratuitously.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:37 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
"We can't tolerate this low class and barbaric activity" reads fine. Tagging on, "this isn't Puerto Rico" is pointing out that THEY do. Gratuitously.


Which they (the government) does in another form of animal fighting

But like I said, I don’t want to speak for Adkindo or put words/meanings/interpretations in his mouth.

I can only offer how I interpreted it when I read it initially.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:45 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
FWIW, the pitbull issue is always filled with confounding facts. True, they are much more likely to bite than other breeds or mixed breeds relative to their numbers, and are involved in more fatal attacks than all other breeds overall, but if you separate out the cases of dogs owned by aggressive masters (dog fighters, felons, and the more difficult to parse out aggressive but not criminally convicted males), that number drops precipitously.

Pit Bulls are prized as fighting dogs because of their willingness to do anything their master requires, including fight to the death. That's why they replaced other dogs with similar ability to inflict damage. It is their willingness to accept pain and continue to go on rather than their aggression or damage that makes them unique. They do have remarkably dangerous bites, but this is not something unique to them. Many dogs do. And when accounting for environment, they are not particularly more aggressive or mean than a whole variety of other dogs.


/thread - can vouch for all of this
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:07 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
jodeke wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
jodeke wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Some remarks are racists no matter where the arrow is aimed.


Not if a word is ambiguous and has double/triple meanings.

Puerto Rico refers to the people
Puerto Rico also refers to the government
And Puerto Rico can refer to the US Territory

It’s only racists if you are referring to the people.

In the eyes of the interpreter. We're not discussing a word, we're discussing a phrase.


Which is an easy fix.

Because if Adkindo meant to criticize the government or the territory and not the people, he can just reword it to make it clear and everyone would be happy.

He can reword the phrase to state we shouldn’t be like Puerto Rico (the US territory).

Now the interpreter and the speaker can both agree that it’s not a racist statement.


Key phrase in bold. If not made clear it can be interpreted.


Agreed.

But the actual crime could either be racist intention or just unclearly phrased.

Jodeke says that it’s always a racist comment.

Again according to one's interpretation. Where did I say always?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:11 pm    Post subject:

Petition to rename thread "Honest discussion about race-baiting troll tactics".
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:12 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
jodeke wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
jodeke wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Some remarks are racists no matter where the arrow is aimed.


Not if a word is ambiguous and has double/triple meanings.

Puerto Rico refers to the people
Puerto Rico also refers to the government
And Puerto Rico can refer to the US Territory

It’s only racists if you are referring to the people.

In the eyes of the interpreter. We're not discussing a word, we're discussing a phrase.


Which is an easy fix.

Because if Adkindo meant to criticize the government or the territory and not the people, he can just reword it to make it clear and everyone would be happy.

He can reword the phrase to state we shouldn’t be like Puerto Rico (the US territory).

Now the interpreter and the speaker can both agree that it’s not a racist statement.


Key phrase in bold. If not made clear it can be interpreted.


Agreed.

But the actual crime could either be racist intention or just unclearly phrased.

Jodeke says that it’s always a racist comment.

Again according to one's interpretation. Where did I say always?


jodeke wrote:
Some remarks are racists no matter where the arrow is aimed.


No matter what = always
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:23 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
"We can't tolerate this low class and barbaric activity" reads fine. Tagging on, "this isn't Puerto Rico" is pointing out that THEY do. Gratuitously.


Which they (the government) does in another form of animal fighting

But like I said, I don’t want to speak for Adkindo or put words/meanings/interpretations in his mouth.

I can only offer how I interpreted it when I read it initially.


Again, the government wanting to reinstate rooster fighting in Puerto Rico has zero to do with whether pit bulls should be legal, and was extraneous to the argument. Why didn’t he use a place where dog fighting or even rooster fighting IS legal? Because that might be too on the nose? He was clearly slamming PR, and by implication its people (because the government wouldn’t be trying to make it legal again if it wasn’t popular), and doing going out of his way to do so.

When you gratuitously say “this isn’t (insert other place here), we don’t tolerate those low class barbaric (insert activity here)”, you are very much drawing a comparison to them, with them as the very obviously implicit low class barbarians. That I need to keep explaining while you want to not speak for him but do so Post after post is troubling.

I get that you didn’t see anything wrong with it initially, but you say you understand why others do, while continuing to try to find a way to sanitize it. It’s pretty crystal clear what he meant to say, and to imply.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:27 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
jodeke wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
jodeke wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
jodeke wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Some remarks are racists no matter where the arrow is aimed.


Not if a word is ambiguous and has double/triple meanings.

Puerto Rico refers to the people
Puerto Rico also refers to the government
And Puerto Rico can refer to the US Territory

It’s only racists if you are referring to the people.

In the eyes of the interpreter. We're not discussing a word, we're discussing a phrase.


Which is an easy fix.

Because if Adkindo meant to criticize the government or the territory and not the people, he can just reword it to make it clear and everyone would be happy.

He can reword the phrase to state we shouldn’t be like Puerto Rico (the US territory).

Now the interpreter and the speaker can both agree that it’s not a racist statement.


Key phrase in bold. If not made clear it can be interpreted.


Agreed.

But the actual crime could either be racist intention or just unclearly phrased.

Jodeke says that it’s always a racist comment.

Again according to one's interpretation. Where did I say always?


jodeke wrote:
Some remarks are racists no matter where the arrow is aimed.


No matter what = always

In your mind not mine. But you're entitled to your interpretation. Always is seldom the correct answer.
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