LAKERS -at- GRIZZLIES – 11-23-19 - Thoughts and :-)) Ratings
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DancingBarry
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:17 pm    Post subject: LAKERS -at- GRIZZLIES – 11-23-19 - Thoughts and :-)) Ratings

Wolfpaclaker’s Recap:

"WINNING UGLY"

Team stats

Points (+1)

Lakers 109
Grizz 108

FG% -3.1
Lakers 45.2
Memphis 48.3

3Pt% -13.4
Lakers 33.3
Memphis 46.7

Points in the Paint -6
Lakers 46
Memphis 52

Fast Break points -10
Lakers 17
Memphis 27

Turnovers
Lakers 16
Memphis 19

The STARTERS:

Anthony Davis - Only starter engaged and ready to dominate from opening tip. Was doing a lot of good things out there on both ends. Other than 1 or 2 possessions had a good first half. Second half we did not go to him as much, some sloppy handling off the ball (entire team suffered from this disease tonight) but some big plays at critical times. Frank Vogel and the staff challenged him to take at least 5 three pointers in each game. He is doing that. 3-6 tonight. A huge 3 when we were down late in the game. Huge defense on Morant and on his man again in the Klutch. The best two-way player in the game right now, IMO, yep even more valuable than Giannis. AD finished the night with 22 points 5 blocks 3 assists 3 steals and was a +1.

Lebron - Sloppy TOs and ballhandling. When he returned after the first break much better play in the first half. More layups and better shots. Then a bad close to the half with some poor decisions on offense that resulted in quick Grizzlies offense and a change in momentum. Lebron kept scoring in the second half, we needed a little more higher IQ from him though. A bit too many tough shots taken when on a second night of a B2B you wanna make the offense easier for you. Even in the Klutch he would shoot some questionable long 3 pointers. It's a second night of a B2B, you don't want those as your iso shots. Especially when you are arguably the best post up player in the league and the best bully ball player in the league. So while Lebron is having a great season, this game gets a from me. Needs to be better for his elite all time standards. Lebron finished with 30 points 6 boards 4 assists and was a +7.

Green - Quiet first half. Second half hit a corner 3 to get the lead in the game. Struggled to get open shots off, the Grizz were keeping a body on him at all times. He did one very valuable thing though. He switched onto Morant exclusively in the 2nd and you saw a major change in how much Morant impacted the game. Pretty cool that we have so many guards that can take on small point guards. Bradley, KCP, Caruso, Green. All of them have spent time on small guards. You would like Rondo to develop into a help defender (which he is already) who defends 2s mostly vs small 1s. Green finished with 8 points on 2-7 shooting and was a +2

KCP - Quiet, injured and getting eaten up a bit by Morant in the 1st half. Second half big time shots to start out the half, Lakers got back into it right away within moments. Hit another big 3 point shot, and drew a foul on another midrange pull up in the second half. Despite that strong 3rd, Vogel took him out early maybe to close with him in the 4th. Not sure the exact reasoning. Anyway, tales of two halves for KCP. Half 1, dud. Half 2 he was our most valuable player on offense. Yes, that's KCP I'm calling the MVP. Klutch KCP finished the game with 12 points on 3-6 shooting and was a +2.

McGee - Not a game he could get involved in on offense. Did not seem we were looking for him much. He was a non-factor in this one. Would like to see more ball movement to get everyone more involved next game. We missed Dwight plenty of times when he was wide open as well. McGee finished with 5 points 4 boards in 13 minutes.

The BENCH

Dwight - Worked really hard coming into the game. Knocked down 3/4 FTs. Drew a lot of fouls inside and was a load inside. Teammates need to do a better job of finding him. Kept fighting hard throughout the half inside. He was getting hacked and whacked. A lot of Shaq like treatment where the moment he catches the ball inside, 2-3 players try to foul him. You can see it is starting to bother him a bit, and also the fact that teammates are missing a player who is shooting 75% from the field this year when he is wide open inside. Keep fighting, Dwight. Caruso and Dwight are the MVPs of the bench. You could also see some frustration from Dwight when Frank took him out for Kuzma late in the game again. Dwight knows he can give more. Stay at it big fella. Dwight finished with 10 points, 9 rebounds (4 offensive) and 1 block in 20 minutes.

Kuzma - Poor start to the game. Botched a layup on the fastbreak. Nice run in buzzer beating 3 at the end of Q1. Really could not get going on offense. Saw a lot of paint packing D from the Grizz and kept passing out on drives but also missed his layup attempts. Dropped his head. Bright side, his D was better and he continues to challenge shots and Frank is clearly trusting him to play more and more in clutch situations and defend. Unfortunately in this one Kuzma had a lot of poor sequences on offense, a lot of passive play. The coaching staff will work with him on that, I'm sure. Almost cost us the game with 2 poor mistakes in the clutch, one where he fouls a player while ball is out of bounds and then gives the ball right back to the Grizz just by a poor handle in that moment. Gonna be nights like this. Kuzma finished the night with 5 points (1-3 shooting) 1 steal 1 block and +5 in 25 minutes.

Rondo - Took advantage of a lot of weak defense on him, and scored with ease on some layups in the first half. Didn't make his open looks early on from outside, most of them were layups. He is taking his open looks which is a big positive. He overdribbles on offense and that can cause some confusion with teammates in the offense. However I thought he was a positive in that first half, during a period when Lakers were playing rather poorly. He also had some nice moments in the 2nd half. Defense we will need to find a way to keep him on 2s, and be a help defender which is when he is the most valuable on D. Great hands on D. Can not move his feet on D anymore. So you have to keep him on the lesser quick opposing guard and ask him to use his hands to help. Offensively I am liking that he is taking shots the defense is giving him. Would like to see a little more continuity with the plays he runs with the 2nd unitRondo finished the game with 14 points on 6-15 shooting (only 1-5 from 3) 6 assists 2 steals and was a +4 in 25 minutes.

Dudley - Was really slow out there. Looked like someone who should not be playing against a weak team like this with the speed out there that Memphis has with so many younger athletes. Dudley was a -6 in his minutes.

Daniels - MIA out there most of the game. Unless he makes his shots from outside, it is a like a ghost. Finally made a corner 3 later in the game to give us a lead. We need him to make his open 3s. He can not keep shooting this bad all season, can he? Daniels finished with 3 points on 1-5 shooting and was a -6.

The COACHING

Frank Vogel

First half we saw the starters get off to a slow sloppy start. Down 4-14 Frank called a Timeout. Lakers made a run to get back in it. However then he inserted Daniels and Dudley in - Memphis got back the lead. Never really saw the team have much rhythm in that first half, and with injuries to Caruso and Bradley, KCP also was hurt in that 1st half, sort of limits what Frank can do lineup wise.

Second half saw same rotation and again Dudley and Daniels were not really able to help much, but we did some changes in the way the team played defense and more ball movement (and screen/rolls with AD) than the first half. We did not see enough of Lebron in the post, or AD for that matter in this one.

Clutch was where Frank earned his thumbsup, IMO. He brought in Kuzma for Dwight again. Then brought in Rondo to close with some more speed and playmaking. It worked out. Lakers were down 5 with 2 min left and won the game. Would have been even more than 1 point win had Kumza been able to keep his dribble. So I think the clutch lineups are working for Frank.

Would like to see Frank get Dwight more time with Lebron and AD. Those are our shut down lineups. Defense is starting to slip the last few weeks. Frank said OKC played great offense. Yes to a degree. Memphis shot the ball very well from outside today. We are also not defending with the same intensity and in this one we were beaten on fastbreaks, points in the paint, 3 point and field goal shooting, yet won the game. Need to play better and Frank needs to get them ready more in the next one. Will say, Frank's timing of when he uses his timeouts are fantastic. We have managed to win a lot of games this season where it looks like we will lose, and late game situations have been very good. That is good coaching IMO.
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DancingBarry
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:17 pm    Post subject:

First
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akgolf
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:21 pm    Post subject:

Thanks DB!
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x75274
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:25 pm    Post subject:

MORE DWIGHT!!!! MORE DWIGHT!!! MORE DWIGHT!!!!
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:27 pm    Post subject:

Lakers lost pretty much every team statistic in this one,

Rebounds - 7 (Griizlies 47, Lakers 40).
Shooting, Field and 3 pointers. Grizz were better.
Points in the paint, again for Memphis.
Fastbreak points, again Memphis.

This was really a game we deserved to lose.

Some of Frank Vogel comments after the game

"Need to play to a higher standard. Happy to get the win, but the standard needs to be higher"

On Kuzma

"We want him to pass and we tell everyone to make the extra pass". Seems to be alluding to Kuzma only taking a few shots. Also mentioned Kuzma's defense being better and good in the game. I've noticed this as well about Kuz.

On Lebron 0 FTs.

"Will be taking it up with the league channels". I guess they may make a video and send it in where they feel they should have gotten FTs.

After today's game, Lakers currently are 5th in D rating, 7th in O rating and 3rd overall in NET (Offense-Defense) rating.


Last edited by wolfpaclaker on Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:27 pm    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
First




Wolf.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:30 pm    Post subject:

Thanks, Wolf & DB!

Looked like Memphis would go zone and we didn't go to Bron/AD in the key or at the elbow, but would settle for jumpers.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:42 pm    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
First


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DancingBarry
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:43 pm    Post subject:

Great job, wolf.

Agree on us needing to run our AD/LBJ/Dwight trio together more. Probably more so with our defensive guards out.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:42 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Lakers lost pretty much every team statistic in this one,

Rebounds - 7 (Griizlies 47, Lakers 40).
Shooting, Field and 3 pointers. Grizz were better.
Points in the paint, again for Memphis.
Fastbreak points, again Memphis.

This was really a game we deserved to lose.

Some of Frank Vogel comments after the game

"Need to play to a higher standard. Happy to get the win, but the standard needs to be higher"

On Kuzma

"We want him to pass and we tell everyone to make the extra pass". Seems to be alluding to Kuzma only taking a few shots. Also mentioned Kuzma's defense being better and good in the game. I've noticed this as well about Kuz.

On Lebron 0 FTs.

"Will be taking it up with the league channels". I guess they may make a video and send it in where they feel they should have gotten FTs.

After today's game, Lakers currently are 5th in D rating, 7th in O rating and 3rd overall in NET (Offense-Defense) rating.

and thats why stats dont mean jack. that's why throwing accumulated historical stats around in debates involving individual player means absolutely nothing, other than a fun numerical game.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 1:04 am    Post subject:

Considering it was a back to back, against a weaker but much motivated and young team that hadn't played since Tuesday, I thought it was a decent win. Great teams somehow figure out how to win games like these. We found a way.

I don't think Vogel expected a defensive juggernaut tonight. It wasn't realistic. He probably expected a loss.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:08 am    Post subject:

In this game, they were the “Dirty Bunch” or “Dirty Dozen” (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dirty_Dozen) bunch by the fact that they won by being “getting into the dirt” and still get a win
Note: Description is my ode to some of my fav films!

Very good teams learn how to win when they are just not in sync
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:54 am    Post subject:

Wow, nice work Wolf! Thanks, DB!
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:56 am    Post subject:

Thanks Wolf and DB.

I thought the Grizz would win that game. When they started off 8-8 from downtown I was like Eventually they "cooled down" to 46.7% from 3. We missed Avery Bradley's perimeter defense last night.

All in all, the Lakers refused to lose. Tail end of B2B, on the road, they got it done. AD and Bron were special down the stretch. Reminded me of Kobe and Pau carrying us to Ws.

I know it's early, but AD is the DPOY.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:33 am    Post subject:

You're welcome, guys.

It's fun to watch the games and do the recaps this year vs years past. We are better coached, way more talented and just a balanced team. It's been a long wait to get back to this level for the franchise.

Quote:
Great teams somehow figure out how to win games like these. We found a way

True, even when we were down 5, I was thinking. If we can hit a 3 and then get a stop, we will be able to get this team in a 1 possession game. I sort of felt Memphis would make some mistakes. I thought at that point if we did not score on that possession it is over, but AD hit a big time 3. It was not even a good possession but somehow we scored the 3 pointer which is exactly what we needed to stay alive in the game.

You wonder with these games though, is it better to lose them, to send a message to your team or do you try to win them. The schedule has been a bit favorable to us, and December will be a lot tougher. I thought if we lost this one it would have been ok, as the guys may realize some of the mistakes they are making and Frank may make some more adjustments.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:38 am    Post subject:

Pros
-This win counts the same as wins in March against playoff bound teams
-Lakers didn’t panic down big
-45 grizzlies 2nd half pts

Cons
-didn’t panic or no sense of urgency...?
-looked like they partied the night before (or reports they couldn’t take a nap at the hotel due to loud noises)
-nobody behind AB/AC to slow down elite wings, we need Iggy!!!

Ugly Win indeed
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:28 am    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:10 am    Post subject:

There are games that going in are penciled in as L's. I refer to them as "schedule losses". This was one of those games. We are on a B2B playing on the road against a team who had not played since Tuesday. Then we find out that Caruso was out and we knew AB was already out and the result is our backcourt was severely compromised. We held the Grizzlies to 45 points in the 2nd half and made enough plays in the last two and a half minutes to walk out of their building with a W. It was far from our best effort and the stats verify that point but good teams find ways to win. 14-2 and it's on to San Antonio Monday.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:40 am    Post subject:

Thanks Wolf and DB.

2nd game of B2B blues. Mem blaring music outside the team hotel early in the AM added to the team's grogginess and lazy 1st half.

AD continues to amaze. Adding the 3-ball to his game is going to expand the floor for LBJ. His instincts to track LBJ's missed 3, navigate distance thru and around bodies and then be able to guide the ball in the basket all in one continuous motion was outstanding.

Kuz was sleepwalking. There were 2 plays in which he passed to someone and then immediately ran back on defense without seeing the shot or play complete. One was a missed shot; the second, a turnover as the ball was passed to the spot he should've been. Then the late game dead ball foul and the fumbled dribble. Sheesh! Get some sleep Kuz.

LBJ is always impactful, but his late game management in the OKC game and this game seemed to stall the team.

It's still a W.
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Laker7
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:47 am    Post subject:

This game had trap written all over it.

1. Lakers on the second night of a back to back on the road.
2. Grizzlies had 4 days off for a game at home.
3. Loud music at the hotel prevented several players from getting sleep before the game.
4. Grizzlies had a much younger lineup, Lakers a much older lineup.
5. Two best PG defenders (Bradley and Caruso) were out against a young speed demon in Ja Morant (I was impressed with him by the way).

And yet the Lakers pulled out a win.

Much better schedule this week (Sun, Tue, Thur, Sat off, Games on Mon, Wed, Fri).
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:16 am    Post subject:

Klone_dd wrote:
Thanks Wolf and DB.

2nd game of B2B blues. Mem blaring music outside the team hotel early in the AM added to the team's grogginess and lazy 1st half.

AD continues to amaze. Adding the 3-ball to his game is going to expand the floor for LBJ. His instincts to track LBJ's missed 3, navigate distance thru and around bodies and then be able to guide the ball in the basket all in one continuous motion was outstanding.

Kuz was sleepwalking. There were 2 plays in which he passed to someone and then immediately ran back on defense without seeing the shot or play complete. One was a missed shot; the second, a turnover as the ball was passed to the spot he should've been. Then the late game dead ball foul and the fumbled dribble. Sheesh! Get some sleep Kuz.

LBJ is always impactful, but his late game management in the OKC game and this game seemed to stall the team.

It's still a W.


There’s no way you put that turnover on Kuz. Rondo was wide open and needed to shoot that 3.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:18 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
You're welcome, guys.

It's fun to watch the games and do the recaps this year vs years past. We are better coached, way more talented and just a balanced team. It's been a long wait to get back to this level for the franchise.

Quote:
Great teams somehow figure out how to win games like these. We found a way

True, even when we were down 5, I was thinking. If we can hit a 3 and then get a stop, we will be able to get this team in a 1 possession game. I sort of felt Memphis would make some mistakes. I thought at that point if we did not score on that possession it is over, but AD hit a big time 3. It was not even a good possession but somehow we scored the 3 pointer which is exactly what we needed to stay alive in the game.

You wonder with these games though, is it better to lose them, to send a message to your team or do you try to win them. The schedule has been a bit favorable to us, and December will be a lot tougher. I thought if we lost this one it would have been ok, as the guys may realize some of the mistakes they are making and Frank may make some more adjustments.



Thanks for the recap Wolf & DB. Nah, my man, losing is not the option. Learning from near losses, but still got the win, is always better.

Too many variables could factor in each game like injuries, suspensions like Rondo could have gotten for that stupid a_s antic he did versus OKC. I'll take an ugly win over a lesson learned loss anytime, but I do get your point, and it does have some merit.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:34 am    Post subject:

They were out rebounded and assisted as well

I’ve felt the past 3 games (and it could be slots here and there before) the Lakers have creeped away from being a defense first team. It also just feels like (with the exception of last game v thunder) the offense is not using AD correctly. It’s like they really are into more pace and 3s...and as a result struggle for separation vs average or subpar teams who really love pace and 3s. I may be just reading too much into this here, but it just feels like After being more AD oriented (or at least involving him more) the offense going down the “keep the lane open for lbj” path, and not using AD as much. I guess I’d want AD to get at least one touch on the ball practically every possession (let him pass or score).

I also didn’t understand some of lbj shot selection down the stretch. Some of it was just mind boggingly strange. Honestly it’s time for him to give up the ball to AD more and let him operate more as the dude can hit his FT and causes just as many issues if he chooses to attack the basket.

I don’t wanna gripe too much after a win but I just smh at how they play and look at that December schedule and say “they got some bad habits forming vs non playoff teams”.

Anyway onto the next one
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:09 am    Post subject:

DrDent wrote:
They were out rebounded and assisted as well

I’ve felt the past 3 games (and it could be slots here and there before) the Lakers have creeped away from being a defense first team. It also just feels like (with the exception of last game v thunder) the offense is not using AD correctly. It’s like they really are into more pace and 3s...and as a result struggle for separation vs average or subpar teams who really love pace and 3s. I may be just reading too much into this here, but it just feels like After being more AD oriented (or at least involving him more) the offense going down the “keep the lane open for lbj” path, and not using AD as much. I guess I’d want AD to get at least one touch on the ball practically every possession (let him pass or score).

I also didn’t understand some of lbj shot selection down the stretch. Some of it was just mind boggingly strange. Honestly it’s time for him to give up the ball to AD more and let him operate more as the dude can hit his FT and causes just as many issues if he chooses to attack the basket.

I don’t wanna gripe too much after a win but I just smh at how they play and look at that December schedule and say “they got some bad habits forming vs non playoff teams”.

Anyway onto the next one


I must admit that some of those shots by James, especially down the stretch, were more than puzzling, and that's not really the word I want to use. It does feel as if the offense is more James-centric.

The good news is that we're still winning, the great news is that the season is only 16 games along, so film, breaks here and there, and coaching adjustments will bring more balance, the greatest news is that we're only going to get better!
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:16 am    Post subject:

I’ve been really impressed with how many winning plays AD has been able to make in the last few minutes of games. Some of it is us purposely setting him up (on both ends of the floor) to be in that position. But a lot of it is just scramble plays where he just makes something happen. Some guys do that off and on throughout a season. His consistent ability to do that most every night is the sign of greatness.
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