ESPN: There's a gap between Clippers and Lakers (Clipper/Laker Discussion)
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CRoost
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:34 pm    Post subject:

drae wrote:
CRoost wrote:
drae wrote:
CRoost wrote:
slavavov wrote:
We're clearly a better defensive team (at least right now). Clippers have already given up 120+ points several times.

Even when you're not at full strength, a team that the media said would be the grestest defensive team ever shouldn't give up that many points that often. Sounds like they still have some work to do creating a defensive culture.

Contrast that to how we've only given up 110+ points twice, and we haven't allowed anyone to reach 115 yet.

Our offense is also at least as strong as theirs. We've scored 120+ points in three of our last four games. With Kuzma back we should see our offensive numbers steadily go up over the next several weeks.

It's almost impossible to tell who will be the better team come playoff time. It will likely be close, if anything.


They were 0-3 without Kawhi and giving up 123 a game before blowing up Atlanta. The Clippers are sandbagging. While we are both have weaknesses, I believed they have better assets to cover their shortcomings than us. They have spare parts like Harkless that they can move plus they have the Logo on their side.


There's no reason for the Clippers to sandbag. A worse record means a harder playoff run which hinders Kawhi whereas a better record leads to a better playoff run which allows Kawhi and easier time and puts less pressure on his leg.


They are looking for the bigger picture . They are more concern on going through the playoff with better health. Getting a good seeding is important of course but it looks like they are just pacing themselves.

You’re too preoccupied about his leg. It’s like you unintentially catapult him to another level of greatness. Him leading the Raptors to title with one leg must one of greatest feat in sports.


Not when KD and Klay went down and Boogie could barely jump. The Raptors, being a great squad even without Kawhi, can handle Curry and Draymond by themselves. Although Kawhi helped also, it's not like he carried them to victory. It was the series the Warriors lost.

Yes people are pre-occupied about his leg because his leg is quite important to his performances. And while going into the playoffs healthy is important, the longer the playoffs go on the worst Kawhi will get physically. Which is why they'd want to get a higher seeding if they can while resting Kawhi. There's no reason to deliberately lose games.


Stop with all those injury excuses. We will have never ending argument on every title run and every injury excuses. Warriors should be grateful for being healthy for the most part. Part of the game.

So in essence, he carried the Raptors with one leg because that what Spurs medical team concluded.

Like I said the Clips are not focusing on seeding right now. They are just pacing themselves . They feel that they can afford to sandbag . They are not trying to lose games of course. They are just more focus on incorporating their stars and keeping them healthy .
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drae
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:41 pm    Post subject:

CRoost wrote:

Stop with all those injury excuses. We will have never ending argument on every title run and every injury excuses. Warriors should be grateful for being healthy for the most part. Part of the game.

So in essence, he carried the Raptors with one leg because that what Spurs medical team concluded.

Like I said the Clips are not focusing on seeding right now. They are just pacing themselves . They feel that they can afford to sandbag . They are not trying to lose games of course. They are just more focus on incorporating their stars and keeping them healthy .


It's not an excuse, it's a reason. In a star driven league the Warriors were without 2 of their best 3 players, one of them an MVP, and so the Warriors lost.

In the context of a normal discussion we don't have to go into injuries, but if you're trying to disparage the medical advice of medical experts then we certainly do. Kawhi won on one leg because he still had a great team behind him and the Warriors were more injured than he was. This in no way makes the Spurs medical conclusion less credible.

I completely agree with your comment about the Clippers seeding though
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CRoost
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:59 pm    Post subject:

drae wrote:
CRoost wrote:

Stop with all those injury excuses. We will have never ending argument on every title run and every injury excuses. Warriors should be grateful for being healthy for the most part. Part of the game.

So in essence, he carried the Raptors with one leg because that what Spurs medical team concluded.

Like I said the Clips are not focusing on seeding right now. They are just pacing themselves . They feel that they can afford to sandbag . They are not trying to lose games of course. They are just more focus on incorporating their stars and keeping them healthy .


It's not an excuse, it's a reason. In a star driven league the Warriors were without 2 of their best 3 players, one of them an MVP, and so the Warriors lost.

In the context of a normal discussion we don't have to go into injuries, but if you're trying to disparage the medical advice of medical experts then we certainly do. Kawhi won on one leg because he still had a great team behind him and the Warriors were more injured than he was. This in no way makes the Spurs medical conclusion less credible.

I completely agree with your comment about the Clippers seeding though


Raptors were never a great team before Kawhi. Very good team but always comes short. As good as DeRozan is, Kawhi is just on another level even with one leg.

The point about Kawhi injury is it’s manageable. Kawhi already proved it and still proving it this year. Before that Raptors game, he was averaging League best 13.5 points in the 4th quarters .

And I hated Kawhi for all that snake move sabotaging us and I really hope He will suffer a bad karma like a career ending injury. But if there’s one guy that I fear is him . His 2 Finals MVP can attest to that.
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drae
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:04 am    Post subject:

CRoost wrote:

The point about Kawhi injury is it’s manageable. Kawhi already proved it and still proving it this year. Before that Raptors game, he was averaging League best 13.5 points in the 4th quarters .


Agree 100% with the idea that it's manageable Part of the reason he was playing so well in the 4th is that he was in game load managing the first 3 quarters though For example he's a great defensive player … but he refused to take Booker for large parts of the game, and he refused to defend Harden for large parts of the game.

Not that he couldn't defend these guys come Finals time, but at 28 years old he should be at the peak of his powers and he's not. He has to manage his body as though he's much older. To me PG has looked like a genuine superstar for the Clippers whereas Kawhi looks like normal regular season Lebron Not like that's a bad thing though

It is manageable though 100% … but I fear PG so much more than Kawhi.
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CRoost
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:14 am    Post subject:

drae wrote:
CRoost wrote:

The point about Kawhi injury is it’s manageable. Kawhi already proved it and still proving it this year. Before that Raptors game, he was averaging League best 13.5 points in the 4th quarters .


Agree 100% with the idea that it's manageable Part of the reason he was playing so well in the 4th is that he was in game load managing the first 3 quarters though For example he's a great defensive player … but he refused to take Booker for large parts of the game, and he refused to defend Harden for large parts of the game.

Not that he couldn't defend these guys come Finals time, but at 28 years old he should be at the peak of his powers and he's not. He has to manage his body as though he's much older. To me PG has looked like a genuine superstar for the Clippers whereas Kawhi looks like normal regular season Lebron Not like that's a bad thing though

It is manageable though 100% … but I fear PG so much more than Kawhi.


Kawhi has nothing to prove defensively in the regular season. He’s been there done that and all that defensive accolades, he’s won it. Clippers has no playmaking PG so Kawhi shouldered most of the initial offense. He’s averaging like 6.0 dimes this year, doubling up his career average. Even when Kobe and Lebron did most of the lifting, they slipped up defensively. Kawhi is a tier below so you expect him to be same player after the Spurs medical conclusion and Clips playmaking then you’re defining some unfreaking believable greatness .

If PG can win 2 finals MVP then you can call him genuine superstar. Otherwise it belongs to hot takes.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:04 am    Post subject:

The Clips will be on the road in the 1st round of the playoffs. Doc will be Doc and they will ultimately be a first round exit.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:16 am    Post subject:

RI Laker wrote:
The Clips will be on the road in the 1st round of the playoffs. Doc will be Doc and they will ultimately be a first round exit.


Lol. If history is any indication..
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:58 am    Post subject:

Exactly. If the Clippers aren't worried about seeding, they're going to be planning another fishing trip earlier than they hoped.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:38 am    Post subject:

I think on the one hand, you absolutely have to load manage KL.

But they're also playing with fire, thinking they can just coast in the WC. Too many good teams that may jump ahead of them and guess what, they'll have to fight bitterly at the end of the regular season to remain in the playoffs/better seeding which defeats the purpose of resting for the playoffs.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:46 am    Post subject:

I believe that the opponent that clippers fear the most in the playoff is rightfully us.

And in that case the home court advantage would be relative cause, sure the crowd will boo you (even if I don't think that we have a very loud crowd if comparared to other franchises), but you'll still play in your city and your arena, sleeping at home and eating with your family.

It would be even more relative for us cause in the "away" games lakers fans will be more than the clippers ones lol
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:54 am    Post subject:

No one is talking about the other good West teams.

Rockets and Nuggets have shown to be better than the Clippers right now.

I would be looking at the entire conference and how to beat all those top teams, not just the Clippers.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:56 am    Post subject:

I kind of feel like with all the "Battle of LA" hoopla, the Lakers/Clips won't meet in the playoffs. Kind of like when folks wanted Kobe to battle the Elton Brand Clips, etc.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:08 am    Post subject:

drae wrote:
LakersLV wrote:
drae wrote:
LakersLV wrote:
Yep like I said pray that they are injured.


Kawhi's already injured and will be for the rest of his career.

No praying required.


I forgot that you are not only the #1 basketball brain on this forum but also the medical expert.


I don't need to be. The Spurs medical experts have already said what Kawhi has. The Spurs medical experts have called Kawhi's condition tendinopathy, and called it degenerative. Degenerative tendinopathy is with you ... FOREVER

Do you have the medical credentials to disagree?


And the reason that Kawhi asked to be traded was because his medical experts disagreed with the Spurs.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:15 am    Post subject:

drae wrote:
CRoost wrote:

The point about Kawhi injury is it’s manageable. Kawhi already proved it and still proving it this year. Before that Raptors game, he was averaging League best 13.5 points in the 4th quarters .


Agree 100% with the idea that it's manageable Part of the reason he was playing so well in the 4th is that he was in game load managing the first 3 quarters though For example he's a great defensive player … but he refused to take Booker for large parts of the game, and he refused to defend Harden for large parts of the game.

Not that he couldn't defend these guys come Finals time, but at 28 years old he should be at the peak of his powers and he's not. He has to manage his body as though he's much older. To me PG has looked like a genuine superstar for the Clippers whereas Kawhi looks like normal regular season Lebron Not like that's a bad thing though

It is manageable though 100% … but I fear PG so much more than Kawhi.


Kawhi shouldn’t be guarding Booker or Harden.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:18 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
drae wrote:
LakersLV wrote:
drae wrote:
LakersLV wrote:
Yep like I said pray that they are injured.


Kawhi's already injured and will be for the rest of his career.

No praying required.


I forgot that you are not only the #1 basketball brain on this forum but also the medical expert.


I don't need to be. The Spurs medical experts have already said what Kawhi has. The Spurs medical experts have called Kawhi's condition tendinopathy, and called it degenerative. Degenerative tendinopathy is with you ... FOREVER

Do you have the medical credentials to disagree?


And the reason that Kawhi asked to be traded was because his medical experts disagreed with the Spurs.

and the reason he continues to sit out games aka load management is because he is not 100%.
At some point you Clipper fans will have to give the Lakers their due, not the other way around, at least on LG.
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drae
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:00 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
drae wrote:
LakersLV wrote:
drae wrote:
LakersLV wrote:
Yep like I said pray that they are injured.


Kawhi's already injured and will be for the rest of his career.

No praying required.


I forgot that you are not only the #1 basketball brain on this forum but also the medical expert.


I don't need to be. The Spurs medical experts have already said what Kawhi has. The Spurs medical experts have called Kawhi's condition tendinopathy, and called it degenerative. Degenerative tendinopathy is with you ... FOREVER

Do you have the medical credentials to disagree?


And the reason that Kawhi asked to be traded was because his medical experts disagreed with the Spurs.


Kawhi's medical team said it was ossification in the muscle. Ossification typically resolves within one year.

Surgery is also an option.

Kawhi has now been load managed for 3 years.

Kawhi's treatment is consistent with the Spur's medical conclusion not Kawhi's.

Kawhi's condition is degenerative and will be with him the rest of his (likely short) career. Clipper fans need to prepare themselves for it, but that's what they get when they spend a max slot on someone they know will never recover *shrugs*
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:21 pm    Post subject:

cencio_999 wrote:
I believe that the opponent that clippers fear the most in the playoff is rightfully us.

And in that case the home court advantage would be relative cause, sure the crowd will boo you (even if I don't think that we have a very loud crowd if comparared to other franchises), but you'll still play in your city and your arena, sleeping at home and eating with your family.

It would be even more relative for us cause in the "away" games lakers fans will be more than the clippers ones lol


Our regular season crowds blow but our playoff atmosphere is just as rocking as anywhere
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:46 pm    Post subject:

LaLaLakeShow wrote:
cencio_999 wrote:
I believe that the opponent that clippers fear the most in the playoff is rightfully us.

And in that case the home court advantage would be relative cause, sure the crowd will boo you (even if I don't think that we have a very loud crowd if comparared to other franchises), but you'll still play in your city and your arena, sleeping at home and eating with your family.

It would be even more relative for us cause in the "away" games lakers fans will be more than the clippers ones lol


Our regular season crowds blow but our playoff atmosphere is just as rocking as anywhere


Couldn't disagree more. Our playoff crowd for the 05-06 playoffs was good. The Kobe/Pau teams were consistently overshadowed by the other team's crowd in the playoffs. We'll see if this long playoff drought fires up our crowd come playoff time (if we make it). Imo we just need a completely new presentation for Laker home games or nothing will change. Lakers home crowd is always dull and boring unless they have a reason to be fired up.. (game 7 NBA finals, Kobe's last game etc). Which is ridiculous, you shouldn't need a historic game to come out with energy.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:26 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
drae wrote:
CRoost wrote:

The point about Kawhi injury is it’s manageable. Kawhi already proved it and still proving it this year. Before that Raptors game, he was averaging League best 13.5 points in the 4th quarters .


Agree 100% with the idea that it's manageable Part of the reason he was playing so well in the 4th is that he was in game load managing the first 3 quarters though For example he's a great defensive player … but he refused to take Booker for large parts of the game, and he refused to defend Harden for large parts of the game.

Not that he couldn't defend these guys come Finals time, but at 28 years old he should be at the peak of his powers and he's not. He has to manage his body as though he's much older. To me PG has looked like a genuine superstar for the Clippers whereas Kawhi looks like normal regular season Lebron Not like that's a bad thing though

It is manageable though 100% … but I fear PG so much more than Kawhi.


Kawhi shouldn’t be guarding Booker or Harden.
Why not?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:32 pm    Post subject:

Beverly, Shamet, even George should guard them before Kawhi.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:34 pm    Post subject:

I am still curious how PG13 and KL play together since they both play the same position. They are good enough to figure it out, but still curious how it plays out. It's really going to come down to health between the two of them. If both teams are healthy who wins it?

I will add Vogel is a very good coach not worried about being out coached by any other coach.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:39 pm    Post subject:

cthroatgtr wrote:
I am still curious how PG13 and KL play together since they both play the same position. They are good enough to figure it out, but still curious how it plays out. It's really going to come down to health between the two of them. If both teams are healthy who wins it?

I will add Vogel is a very good coach not worried about being out coached by any other coach.


They both play wing and most teams play 2-4 wings. Shamet or Beverly will likely be playing when they close games. That is where the loss of SGA will hurt them.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:42 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
I think on the one hand, you absolutely have to load manage KL.

But they're also playing with fire, thinking they can just coast in the WC. Too many good teams that may jump ahead of them and guess what, they'll have to fight bitterly at the end of the regular season to remain in the playoffs/better seeding which defeats the purpose of resting for the playoffs.


Reality for them will be somewhere in between Spurs and Raptors. It won't be as bad as it was in San Antonio, but it won't be as peachy as it was in Toronto. What I'm talking about is locker room dynamics.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:49 pm    Post subject:

Even with load management there are only 4 teams in the West ahead of them.
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drae
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:59 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Beverly, Shamet, even George should guard them before Kawhi.


Because Kawhi needs to rest them knees
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