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ChickenStu
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 Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | Beir32 wrote: | | Rudolph is an unlikable turd with a punchable face but I donāt think he deserved suspension. |
If not for Garrett's actions, Rudolph's penalty would have been a 15 yard unsportsmanlike call.
At most. |
I think it would been offsetting unsportsmanlikes. |
Same. |
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LongBeachPoly
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Joined: 14 Jul 2012
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| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | Beir32 wrote: | | Rudolph is an unlikable turd with a punchable face but I donāt think he deserved suspension. |
If not for Garrett's actions, Rudolph's penalty would have been a 15 yard unsportsmanlike call.
At most. |
I think it would been offsetting unsportsmanlikes. |
Same. |
Yup. I don't get it when people say Rudolph should have been suspended because he started it.
Basically they are saying - his suspension is based on whether or not Garrett decides to smack him on the head with a helmet.
If Garrett doesn't smack him on the head, nothing happens to Rudolph. |
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LongBeachPoly
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Joined: 14 Jul 2012
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| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| loslakersss wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | I am seeing that the Garrett action has actually brought up and being compared to pitchers throwing at batters on Twitter and other places. I find the correlation interesting as I still struggle to understand how so many people are ok with this practice in baseball. As I pointed out earlier, it is a hard and fast rule in football that if a player is wearing a helmet, he should never swing on a player without a helmet. It is just seen as cowardly because it is seen as taking action against someone knowing there is little physical consequence to oneself....and that is exactly how I see pitchers throwing at batters. |
Eh, it's different in baseball because pitcher's aren't throwing at guy's heads. Sure it hurts but it's typically something that just gets walked off. Sure there are rare cases like Joe Kelly hitting Hanley Ramirez in the ribs and ending his season but in most cases there's nothing malicious about it, it's more seen as a hard foul to make a statement. Swinging a helmet at someone's unprotected head is something else entirely, IMO. |
I think here's the difference:
If in a fight a pitcher picks up a ball and throws it at a guy, that would be the same as what Garrett did.
When a pitcher does it during play - it's hard to decipher. Did he actually go head hunting? Did he mean to beam him in the ribs but it got away from him? Did the ball actually just get away from him? It's hard to decipher because throwing at a guy is actually a part of the unwritten rules.
However, during a fight, you can't pick up a ball and throw it at someone. That's not part of the unwritten rules. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| loslakersss wrote: | | I see your point. |
not sure anyone has ever said that to me on LG  |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | loslakersss wrote: | | I see your point. |
not sure anyone has ever said that to me on LG |
I see your point.  
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
Heās something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built thatās all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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Roger O. Thornhill
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Joined: 16 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Suspend Garrett and additional 8 games into next season and levy a $500k fine. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Roger O. Thornhill wrote: | | Suspend Garrett and additional 8 games into next season and levy a $500k fine. |
I agree with the idea akindo put forth. See how he conducts himself over the offseason. If he says, and more importantly does, the right things by demonstrating sincere contrition and makes an effort to show appropriate behavior going into next season, I think he earns the right to put this behind him.
But he'd be on a very short leash - one hint of dangerous play or overly aggressive behavior and he's yanked for a lengthy period.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
Heās something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built thatās all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | loslakersss wrote: | | I see your point. |
not sure anyone has ever said that to me on LG |
Do you see your point? |
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PHILosophize
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| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | Roger O. Thornhill wrote: | | Suspend Garrett and additional 8 games into next season and levy a $500k fine. |
I agree with the idea akindo put forth. See how he conducts himself over the offseason. If he says, and more importantly does, the right things by demonstrating sincere contrition and makes an effort to show appropriate behavior going into next season, I think he earns the right to put this behind him.
But he'd be on a very short leash - one hint of dangerous play or overly aggressive behavior and he's yanked for a lengthy period. |
how far would a halfway decent, somber poem go in your mind
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one dog goes that way the other dog goes the other way |
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Aeneas Hunter
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PHILosophize
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| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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one dog goes that way the other dog goes the other way |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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Kinda hard to disagree . . .
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
Heās something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built thatās all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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DaMuleRules
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Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| PHILosophize wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Roger O. Thornhill wrote: | | Suspend Garrett and additional 8 games into next season and levy a $500k fine. |
I agree with the idea akindo put forth. See how he conducts himself over the offseason. If he says, and more importantly does, the right things by demonstrating sincere contrition and makes an effort to show appropriate behavior going into next season, I think he earns the right to put this behind him.
But he'd be on a very short leash - one hint of dangerous play or overly aggressive behavior and he's yanked for a lengthy period. |
how far would a halfway decent, somber poem go in your mind |
Depends on the choice of background music.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
Heās something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built thatās all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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Beir32
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| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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Thatās fantastic. |
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SocalDevin
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| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not going to instigate a fight with someone then act like a victim when I come out on the losing end.
I'm also not going to charge a man with what could be used as a weapon in his hand and not expect him to use it. Especially when he's also being somewhat restrained by two other individuals of equal strength.
In short, Rudolph initiated the first action.. then instigated the second when he charged a man that was being restrained. |
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Beir32
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| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| SocalDevin wrote: | I'm not going to instigate a fight with someone then act like a victim when I come out on the losing end.
I'm also not going to charge a man with what could be used as a weapon in his hand and not expect him to use it. Especially when he's also being somewhat restrained by two other individuals of equal strength.
In short, Rudolph initiated the first action.. then instigated the second when he charged a man that was being restrained. |
I know right? Who didnāt expect an NFL player to beat another man with his own helmet in the middle of the game? |
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SocalDevin
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Location: Long Beach
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| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Beir32 wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | I'm not going to instigate a fight with someone then act like a victim when I come out on the losing end.
I'm also not going to charge a man with what could be used as a weapon in his hand and not expect him to use it. Especially when he's also being somewhat restrained by two other individuals of equal strength.
In short, Rudolph initiated the first action.. then instigated the second when he charged a man that was being restrained. |
I know right? Who didnāt expect an NFL player to beat another man with his own helmet in the middle of the game? |
He didn't beat him with it.. and lets not ignore context, even though it's helpful in pushing a particular narrative.
Rudolph was the aggressor initially, and in their second interaction. Period...
He doesn't try to rip Myles helmet off, his doesn't get ripped off..
He doesn't charge Myles while he's being restrained, he doesn't get hit..
These are facts.. He's no victim.
Last edited by SocalDevin on Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| SocalDevin wrote: | | Beir32 wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | I'm not going to instigate a fight with someone then act like a victim when I come out on the losing end.
I'm also not going to charge a man with what could be used as a weapon in his hand and not expect him to use it. Especially when he's also being somewhat restrained by two other individuals of equal strength.
In short, Rudolph initiated the first action.. then instigated the second when he charged a man that was being restrained. |
I know right? Who didnāt expect an NFL player to beat another man with his own helmet in the middle of the game? |
He didn't beat him with it.. and lets not ignore context, even though it's helpful in pushing a particular narrative.
Rudolph was the aggressor initially, and in their second interaction. Period...
He doesn't try to rip Myles helmet off, his doesn't get his ripped off..
He doesn't charge Myles while he's being restrained, he doesn't get hit..
These are facts.. He's no victim. |
Yup, if Ray Rice's wife doesn't lunge at him, she wouldn't have gotten knocked out either. Ray Rice already moved to the other side of the elevator.
Who charges an off duty NFL player in the elevator and not expect to get knocked out?
These are the facts. |
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SocalDevin
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Location: Long Beach
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| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | | Beir32 wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | I'm not going to instigate a fight with someone then act like a victim when I come out on the losing end.
I'm also not going to charge a man with what could be used as a weapon in his hand and not expect him to use it. Especially when he's also being somewhat restrained by two other individuals of equal strength.
In short, Rudolph initiated the first action.. then instigated the second when he charged a man that was being restrained. |
I know right? Who didnāt expect an NFL player to beat another man with his own helmet in the middle of the game? |
He didn't beat him with it.. and lets not ignore context, even though it's helpful in pushing a particular narrative.
Rudolph was the aggressor initially, and in their second interaction. Period...
He doesn't try to rip Myles helmet off, his doesn't get his ripped off..
He doesn't charge Myles while he's being restrained, he doesn't get hit..
These are facts.. He's no victim. |
Yup, if Ray Rice's wife doesn't lunge at him, she wouldn't have gotten knocked out either. Ray Rice already moved to the other side of the elevator.
These are the facts. |
Poor analogy.. A woman pursuing a man in an aggressive manner, is entirely different from a football player doing the same.. Again the only way to mount a defense for Rudolph is to engage in hypotheticals and analogies in which you change or omit context.
Fact of the matter is a woman didn't initiate a non football play on Myles, a man did. Fact of the matter is a woman didn't charge Myles while he was backpedaling and being restrained, a man did.
Those are facts.. |
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Beir32
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Joined: 16 Feb 2016
Posts: 1710
Location: Western PA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | | Beir32 wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | I'm not going to instigate a fight with someone then act like a victim when I come out on the losing end.
I'm also not going to charge a man with what could be used as a weapon in his hand and not expect him to use it. Especially when he's also being somewhat restrained by two other individuals of equal strength.
In short, Rudolph initiated the first action.. then instigated the second when he charged a man that was being restrained. |
I know right? Who didnāt expect an NFL player to beat another man with his own helmet in the middle of the game? |
He didn't beat him with it.. and lets not ignore context, even though it's helpful in pushing a particular narrative.
Rudolph was the aggressor initially, and in their second interaction. Period...
He doesn't try to rip Myles helmet off, his doesn't get his ripped off..
He doesn't charge Myles while he's being restrained, he doesn't get hit..
These are facts.. He's no victim. |
Yup, if Ray Rice's wife doesn't lunge at him, she wouldn't have gotten knocked out either. Ray Rice already moved to the other side of the elevator.
Who charges an off duty NFL player in the elevator and not expect to get knocked out?
These are the facts. |
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Beir32
Star Player
Joined: 16 Feb 2016
Posts: 1710
Location: Western PA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| SocalDevin wrote: | | Beir32 wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | I'm not going to instigate a fight with someone then act like a victim when I come out on the losing end.
I'm also not going to charge a man with what could be used as a weapon in his hand and not expect him to use it. Especially when he's also being somewhat restrained by two other individuals of equal strength.
In short, Rudolph initiated the first action.. then instigated the second when he charged a man that was being restrained. |
I know right? Who didnāt expect an NFL player to beat another man with his own helmet in the middle of the game? |
He didn't beat him with it.. and lets not ignore context, even though it's helpful in pushing a particular narrative.
Rudolph was the aggressor initially, and in their second interaction. Period...
He doesn't try to rip Myles helmet off, his doesn't get his ripped off..
He doesn't charge Myles while he's being restrained, he doesn't get hit..
These are facts.. He's no victim. |
You said he should have expected to get hit with his helmet. Bull (bleep). |
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SocalDevin
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Location: Long Beach
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| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| If I'm in a fight, and I charge another man who is being restrained by two other men, which makes him vulnerable, yes.. I would expect him to use whatever is available to defend himself. I'm not saying Myles actions weren't excessive, I'm arguing that none of it would have happened if Rudolph hadn't instigated both interactions. He was the catalyst for all that happened. |
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DaMuleRules
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Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Beir32 wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | I'm not going to instigate a fight with someone then act like a victim when I come out on the losing end.
I'm also not going to charge a man with what could be used as a weapon in his hand and not expect him to use it. Especially when he's also being somewhat restrained by two other individuals of equal strength.
In short, Rudolph initiated the first action.. then instigated the second when he charged a man that was being restrained. |
I know right? Who didnāt expect an NFL player to beat another man with his own helmet in the middle of the game? |
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
Heās something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built thatās all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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DaMuleRules
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Posts: 52656
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| SocalDevin wrote: | | Beir32 wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | I'm not going to instigate a fight with someone then act like a victim when I come out on the losing end.
I'm also not going to charge a man with what could be used as a weapon in his hand and not expect him to use it. Especially when he's also being somewhat restrained by two other individuals of equal strength.
In short, Rudolph initiated the first action.. then instigated the second when he charged a man that was being restrained. |
I know right? Who didnāt expect an NFL player to beat another man with his own helmet in the middle of the game? |
He didn't beat him with it.. and lets not ignore context, even though it's helpful in pushing a particular narrative. |
Garrett attempted to slam a helmet into the man's bare skull - without a little interference with that effort, extremely serious injury could have been inflicted. Prior context in meaningless because nothing that occurred prior to that justifies that action by Garrett . . . nothing!
And no one is pushing a "narrative" by pointing that very obvious fact out.
And no. Rudolph was not the aggressor. So if you want to do a trail back to the instigation, it was Garrett's late hit and attempt to hold Rudolph down that precipitated everything.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
Heās something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built thatās all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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SocalDevin
Star Player
Joined: 26 May 2016
Posts: 7825
Location: Long Beach
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| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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Lets follow this line of reasoning that context is meaningless because nothing that occurred prior, justified Myles's actions.
1. No one is attempting to justify Myles's actions. It was clearly excessive.
2. Any action that could be construed as a football play had ceased while both men were on the turf. Once the football play was over Rudolph tried to take off Garrett's helmet. Let's be honest here. If he hadn't would he have gotten his ripped off? Would he have gotten hit in the head if he wasn't being aggressive? How would Myles have hit him in the head with his own helmet while backpedaling with two other large men restraining him, if he wasn't being pursued by Rudolph? The answer is simple.. Rudolph was the aggressor, and initiated all that took place. None if it happens if he doesn't try to take of Garrett's helmet, and he doesn't get hit if doesn't charge Garrett while he's being restrained by two men.
The argument isn't whether or not Myles actions were wrong.. it's who instigated the initial scrum, and who fueled it? |
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