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The Juggernaut
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Joined: 24 Aug 2017
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 Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:22 am Post subject: |
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| Supposedly Rob didn’t even ask AD to waive trade kicker |
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epak
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| The Juggernaut wrote: | | Supposedly Rob didn’t even ask AD to waive trade kicker |
Is it uncouth to ask unless they can get the max cap space first? Or is the proper thing to just ask? I don't know how the GM world works. |
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The Juggernaut
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Joined: 24 Aug 2017
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:27 am Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | Supposedly Rob didn’t even ask AD to waive trade kicker |
Is it uncouth to ask unless they can get the max cap space first? Or is the proper thing to just ask? I don't know how the GM world works. |
Coon said that’s something negotiated during trade talk |
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ocho
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:30 am Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | Supposedly Rob didn’t even ask AD to waive trade kicker |
Is it uncouth to ask unless they can get the max cap space first? Or is the proper thing to just ask? I don't know how the GM world works. |
Neither does Rob 
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epak
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:31 am Post subject: |
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| The Juggernaut wrote: | | epak wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | Supposedly Rob didn’t even ask AD to waive trade kicker |
Is it uncouth to ask unless they can get the max cap space first? Or is the proper thing to just ask? I don't know how the GM world works. |
Coon said that’s something negotiated during trade talk |
But trade option 1 where we trade AD into our cap space doesn't require it.
I wonder if you always ask the player/agent about it in all circumstances. |
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The Juggernaut
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Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 4572
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | epak wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | Supposedly Rob didn’t even ask AD to waive trade kicker |
Is it uncouth to ask unless they can get the max cap space first? Or is the proper thing to just ask? I don't know how the GM world works. |
Neither does Rob |
He really seems like a novice as more info comes out. |
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Bard207
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Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 7713
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | epak wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | Supposedly Rob didn’t even ask AD to waive trade kicker |
Is it uncouth to ask unless they can get the max cap space first? Or is the proper thing to just ask? I don't know how the GM world works. |
Coon said that’s something negotiated during trade talk |
But trade option 1 where we trade AD into our cap space doesn't require it.
I wonder if you always ask the player/agent about it in all circumstances. |
If the trade bonus impacts if the trade is CBA viable when put into the
125% + $100,000 calculations, then the player & agent need to be asked.
Edit
Since the team sending out has to pay it, then they will want to know in just about all circumstances.
Last edited by Bard207 on Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:39 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ocho
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| The Juggernaut wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | epak wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | Supposedly Rob didn’t even ask AD to waive trade kicker |
Is it uncouth to ask unless they can get the max cap space first? Or is the proper thing to just ask? I don't know how the GM world works. |
Neither does Rob |
He really seems like a novice as more info comes out. |
He doesn’t seem like one. He IS one. It’s not fair to him that there be an expectation he knows how to do this job that he’s never done before while being surrounded by other people that have never done it. It’s a classroom without a teacher.
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LandsbergerRules
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Joined: 29 Aug 2004
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Location: The Other Perspective
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | epak wrote: | | LandsbergerRules wrote: | | epak wrote: | | LandsbergerRules wrote: | | Isn't Shelburne a mouthpiece for Jeanie? I'm surprised she's criticizing Pelinka on air. |
She's shut out. Rob isnt leaking anything.
She's guessing.
We'll have to see how tomorrow goes. |
If she's Jeanie's lapdog, wouldn't she go along with keeping quiet instead of throwing him under the bus? |
I'm saying I dont think she is. |
She has been and is. |
Yup, that's the impression I've gotten for a while. And if she IS, then it's surprising she's criticizing Pelinka for the same things Woj, Coon, and many others are. Could it be that Jeanie herself is pissed at Rob?
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-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
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epak
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:51 am Post subject: |
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| Bard207 wrote: | | epak wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | epak wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | Supposedly Rob didn’t even ask AD to waive trade kicker |
Is it uncouth to ask unless they can get the max cap space first? Or is the proper thing to just ask? I don't know how the GM world works. |
Coon said that’s something negotiated during trade talk |
But trade option 1 where we trade AD into our cap space doesn't require it.
I wonder if you always ask the player/agent about it in all circumstances. |
If the trade bonus impacts if the trade is CBA viable when put into the
125% + $100,000 calculations, then the player & agent need to be asked.
Edit
Since the team sending out has to pay it, then they will want to know in just about all circumstances. |
Good point |
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laker4life
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Joined: 26 Nov 2001
Posts: 7320
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| The Juggernaut wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | epak wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | Supposedly Rob didn’t even ask AD to waive trade kicker |
Is it uncouth to ask unless they can get the max cap space first? Or is the proper thing to just ask? I don't know how the GM world works. |
Neither does Rob |
He really seems like a novice as more info comes out. |
What do you expect when the president is Jeanie who is pretty clueless.
She brings in Kurt Rambis and his wife Linda as advisers.
You hire a former agent who has no experience in the FO.
At least Jimmy had Kupchak
Seriously, who does the Lakers have in the FO???
the Lakers have been lucky with the drafts and this trade.
Eventually the luck is going to run out and the Buss family will be bought out. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144472
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:08 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | epak wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | Supposedly Rob didn’t even ask AD to waive trade kicker |
Is it uncouth to ask unless they can get the max cap space first? Or is the proper thing to just ask? I don't know how the GM world works. |
Neither does Rob |
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| LandsbergerRules wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | epak wrote: | | LandsbergerRules wrote: | | epak wrote: | | LandsbergerRules wrote: | | Isn't Shelburne a mouthpiece for Jeanie? I'm surprised she's criticizing Pelinka on air. |
She's shut out. Rob isnt leaking anything.
She's guessing.
We'll have to see how tomorrow goes. |
If she's Jeanie's lapdog, wouldn't she go along with keeping quiet instead of throwing him under the bus? |
I'm saying I dont think she is. |
She has been and is. |
Yup, that's the impression I've gotten for a while. And if she IS, then it's surprising she's criticizing Pelinka for the same things Woj, Coon, and many others are. Could it be that Jeanie herself is pissed at Rob? |
It is possible that Jeanie has nothing to do with it and Ramona is expressing her own opinion
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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DoubleClutch
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Joined: 02 Jun 2005
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Location: Town
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:37 am Post subject: |
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Seems like a ridiculous notion to say that Rob wasn't aware of the salary cap implications. Kobe always said he is one of the most prepared negotiators he has ever seen. Always has multiple options thought out and ready to execute depending on how things go. Rob's been dealing with the CBA for 20 years and has a full time cap expert on staff. The media narrative about his competency just smells like click bait to me. It's not as much of a headline story if you say that Rob was well prepared, has contingencies in place and is methodically working through his plan.
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bigfootornado
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Joined: 19 Jun 2019
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| DoubleClutch wrote: | | Seems like a ridiculous notion to say that Rob wasn't aware of the salary cap implications. Kobe always said he is one of the most prepared negotiators he has ever seen. Always has multiple options thought out and ready to execute depending on how things go. Rob's been dealing with the CBA for 20 years and has a full time cap expert on staff. The media narrative about his competency just smells like click bait to me. It's not as much of a headline story if you say that Rob was well prepared, has contingencies in place and is methodically working through his plan. |
It has to be click bait. It's ridiculous.
Also there's no way AD doesn't waive his trade kicker. He forced a trade to LA to play for a winner, that was his entire narrative. Whether true or not it would make no sense for him not to waive it. I understand the union never likes it when players leave money on the table but there is a precedent for it already.
In some backwards way I've said the negative spin on the Lakers is good, as long as general public think Lakers are stupid and aren't getting everything they want, the blowback during the process will not be as large. The last time everyone got jealous the NBA had to veto a trade. |
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AshesToAshes
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Joined: 20 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:50 am Post subject: |
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it's not like we're the only ones that use hindsight as a valid argument.
Other gm's want to criticize the trade now?
ok, why don't you have lebron and AD?
or... would you teardown what you've done the last 5 seasons to have AD and lebron? i think suddenly their/our view of time will shorten a lot before an immediate "yes, absolutely".
Not that i like Rob, but i don't have to invalidate what he's been a part of getting done in our FO. (it's like JimB got more credit sitting beside DocBuss, Jwest, Mitch etc.. etc..)
Laker fans, either way.. if they invalidate Rob in this moment then those SAME people MUST give full credit to Jeanie for what she's done in such a short time since spanking Jim. Maybe that would explain the lack of detail to the deal? quote me as your sauce, it's no worse than ESPN.
If they don't do either, then the bias/hate should be easy to see.
lol
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epak
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:36 am Post subject: |
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Bill Oram's take on the trade:
https://imgur.com/algYndW
Which makes sense to me. |
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UKUGA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:37 am Post subject: |
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This is what Bill Oran just wrote at The Athletic:
@Ben I. OK, so I'll try to answer this once and then move on, but I'm sure this is the most pressing thing on the minds of Lakers fans. My sense from those on the inside is that this is not the catastrophe it has been represented as elsewhere. The Lakers are not panicking about the timing of the trade or their ability to open up a max slot. They expect they will know whether any top free agents are interested in teaming up with AD/LeBron well before July 6, which gives them time to rework the deal or open up additional space to accommodate that player, whether it's Kawhi or Jimmy Butler or whomever. Was this some big blunder by Rob Pelinka the neophyte? I just don't see it that way. The most important objective for the Lakers was to secure Anthony Davis and not lose him to the Celtics or some other team. That would have been the ultimate catastrophe. So, they took care of priority 1A, which set the FLOOR for their offseason. So now they have both Anthony Davis and at WORST the $24 million in cap space. Upon the time they agreed, they still had time to massage the mechanics of the deal if necessary and further incentivize a delay with cash or second round picks or whatever. Dumping Jemerrio Jones/Moe Wagner/Isaac Bonga in advance would also seem imprudent. If you need their $$ to sign Kyrie, then it makes sense to sacrifice them. If not, and you're trying to build out a roster, these are young players on team-controlled contracts who the team has worked to develop. I'm not sure if that answers every wrinkle to this story, but I guess the bottomline here would be that the Lakers are not behaving as though they got hoodwinked or Rob was out of his depth on this. It's evolving though. |
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where24happens
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Joined: 08 May 2009
Posts: 3410
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:44 am Post subject: |
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| The July 30 date clearly should've been negotiated beforehand so we wouldn't have to be maneuvering for extra cap space right now. If we don't end up with close to $32M in cap space, then the front office should be let go. It's a fireable offense. Even if we're not getting a max guy, extra $8M in cap space is MASSIVE. |
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epak
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| where24happens wrote: | | The July 30 date clearly should've been negotiated beforehand so we wouldn't have to be maneuvering for extra cap space right now. If we don't end up with close to $32M in cap space, then the front office should be let go. It's a fireable offense. Even if we're not getting a max guy, extra $8M in cap space is MASSIVE. |
Wow.
Mr. Magic Johnson, I'm a big fan of yours. When did you join LG?  |
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where24happens
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Joined: 08 May 2009
Posts: 3410
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | where24happens wrote: | | The July 30 date clearly should've been negotiated beforehand so we wouldn't have to be maneuvering for extra cap space right now. If we don't end up with close to $32M in cap space, then the front office should be let go. It's a fireable offense. Even if we're not getting a max guy, extra $8M in cap space is MASSIVE. |
Wow.
Mr. Magic Johnson, I'm a big fan of yours. When did you join LG? |
May 8, 2009 |
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epak
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| where24happens wrote: | | epak wrote: | | where24happens wrote: | | The July 30 date clearly should've been negotiated beforehand so we wouldn't have to be maneuvering for extra cap space right now. If we don't end up with close to $32M in cap space, then the front office should be let go. It's a fireable offense. Even if we're not getting a max guy, extra $8M in cap space is MASSIVE. |
Wow.
Mr. Magic Johnson, I'm a big fan of yours. When did you join LG? |
May 8, 2009 |
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socalsp3
Star Player
Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 3502
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| AshesToAshes wrote: | it's not like we're the only ones that use hindsight as a valid argument.
Other gm's want to criticize the trade now?
ok, why don't you have lebron and AD?
or... would you teardown what you've done the last 5 seasons to have AD and lebron? i think suddenly their/our view of time will shorten a lot before an immediate "yes, absolutely".
Not that i like Rob, but i don't have to invalidate what he's been a part of getting done in our FO. (it's like JimB got more credit sitting beside DocBuss, Jwest, Mitch etc.. etc..)
Laker fans, either way.. if they invalidate Rob in this moment then those SAME people MUST give full credit to Jeanie for what she's done in such a short time since spanking Jim. Maybe that would explain the lack of detail to the deal? quote me as your sauce, it's no worse than ESPN.
If they don't do either, then the bias/hate should be easy to see.
lol |
Other GMs/owners have a better record than the Lakers in the last 7 years and they don't make silly mistakes that cost them cap space |
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The Gr8 Lakes
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Joined: 24 Apr 2002
Posts: 870
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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I’m not a Rob fan or a detractor. I’m in a holding pattern. I want to like him and for him to succeed for a few reasons. That said, why is Rob being thrown to the wolves like some clueless idiot when other teams GM’s routinely destroy teams. CP3 is owed 140 Million. He was declining 2 years ago. Not minimally either. You could see him really start to slow. Many here consider Morey a sharp GM. Sean Marks let Kenneth Faried walk away for nothing essentially and Bought him out. That’s just 2 small examples of sharp GM’s making odd decisions. GM’s make errors all the time. Rob and Co. signed Lebron. Traded for AD and kept Kuz. I for one will hold tight until after the roster is filled.
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socalsp3
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Joined: 07 Jul 2016
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| Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| The Gr8 Lakes wrote: | | I’m not a Rob fan or a detractor. I’m in a holding pattern. I want to like him and for him to succeed for a few reasons. That said, why is Rob being thrown to the wolves like some clueless idiot when other teams GM’s routinely destroy teams. CP3 is owed 140 Million. He was declining 2 years ago. Not minimally either. You could see him really start to slow. Many here consider Morey a sharp GM. Sean Marks let Kenneth Faried walk away for nothing essentially and Bought him out. That’s just 2 small examples of sharp GM’s making odd decisions. GM’s make errors all the time. Rob and Co. signed Lebron. Traded for AD and kept Kuz. I for one will hold tight until after the roster is filled. |
Signing lebron was not an accomplishment. He was going to come regardless who was GM. Klutch gift wrapped AD. Keeping Kuz and losing most of your picks until 2025 is nothing to be proud of |
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